DYATLOV PASS

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Nigel Evans 22-08-2017 10:23 (GMT)
@John Wolfe - the tent had two modes, high (for sheltered areas), low (for exposed areas). They pitched it low that night so presumably had no intention of using the stove, not that they carried firewood anyway. Although out of their wet outer clothes they left behind their dry felt boots (valenki) which would have been close at hand for toilet trips, it was a sudden departure.

Loose-Cannon 22-08-2017 02:39 (GMT)
I'm tellin ya... The boy aint right. http://deadmountainbook.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_large/public/DM64-copy_0.jpg?itok=IqyuhlyX
John Wolfe 22-08-2017 00:50 (GMT)
note to Declan Clark --- there are complete radiation reports elsewhere, showing two things:

1) the radiation was just about 2 or 3 times background -- that is fairly low and not harmful;

2) the radiation was on shirt sleeves and other places where accidental contamination occurs in a lab.
John Wolfe 22-08-2017 00:45 (GMT)
note to web-master: you need to put the comment box at the top of the page --- down at the bottom it is almost useless
John Wolfe 21-08-2017 23:23 (GMT)
Nigel -- that wordpress site crashed my computer

Anna -- three points:

1) that diary is as fake as a Mormon three dollar bill ! It mentions several faked stories from other sources, all in one "diary" (extra hiker trailing them -- extra tent -- words that no one else reported in real diaries -- staying two days on hillside -- group members disappearing -- LSD overdose -- and by the way, in a snowstorm you have a whiteout where all you see is the snow blowing and not pitch darkness)

2) not lightning but BALL lightning -- they are related but not the same thing -- if any were hit by a regular lightning discharge there would be obvious injuries that all medical personal could / would plainly identify.

3) from your post: "They wouldn't build a den to hide from a fire ball" -- of course they wouldn't -- but they would to shelter from the sub zero temps.

Nigel -- There would be too much wind to run the stove - it was found in its packed state, unused.

also: I have tried to resubmit a comment several times but my DSL provider times-out if you don't change pages.

note to all: they were undressed of their heavy and wet over clothing -- wearing just under clothes and some dry clothes with dry socks -- I have done this in camping in northern Wyoming two winters in a row (temp: from 25F down to minus 45F with most days hovering around zero F ) I wasn't camping but working -- spent two entire winter out in that cold with no heat. You learn to remove wet clothing. In their normally heated tent they would dry by morning -- socks must be dry so those without extra dry pairs would have to bed down without socks -- or their feet would freeze by morning. My feet nearly froze one night even with dry socks. (was minus 47F that night)

also: the two photos Anna posted -- please note, those are log houses partially built -- as can be seen from the partially completed roof and only some of the windows framed in / installed -- no collapsing roofs. This was not an old abandoned village, but a village from which the builders fled. I know this as we were building log homes in Wyoming for over ten years. I also own a log home. Perhaps they had some ball lightning in the area and so abandoned that 1/2 built village because of the strange balls of light -- it wouldn't be abandoned normally -- and I'm guessing the scientists/engineers/geologists were looking for copper and not gold.

HK -- and everyone else -- if you go to the two posts of the hillside I posted a few days ago you will see that the chance of an "avalanche" ...... is ZERO ! and they would have known that, given their position.

here is a good view of the area as seen from a drone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFhA6D5m1g8 I suggest you start at 1:30 and then skip around (to see various points of interest -- eg. "Boot Rock" - Mt. Orten and Dyatlov Pass)

also: I suggest you read / re-read my posts and consider that I spent a few years reading text-books on lightning and ball lightning, going to web-sites, and considering various (but very bad) wacco-theories ..... like yeti or space aliens, or murderous Mansi. Please note that the Mansi named the two mountains: "Dead Mountain" and "Don't Go There" for real reasons -- including that their history speaks of a hunting party that all died up there, and of evil spirits -- which could be ball lightning.

again -- everyone -- please read up on Occam's Razor -- see my post or google it.
Nigel Evans 21-08-2017 22:03 (GMT)
@HK - "So almost impossible to discuss about it when you know nothing."

I disagree, the luxury of ball lightning is that because it exhibits so many behaviours this makes it very flexible.
E.g. rollers were unofficially reported to the mourning families by the investigation team. - http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Roller.html So maybe the ravine four were crushed by one? See how easy it is to make BL fit.

Yes i'd agree the diary is a hoax.

@Declan Clark - What part about radiation?
Declan Clark 21-08-2017 21:18 (GMT)
There are too many typos throughout the entirety of this site to actually take it seriously; I understand that English is not your first language, but still. Almost nothing here is backed up by sources or proof, IF the part about the radiation is true then how did they become exposed to that much radiation? It's almost all speculation and because of popular media it's been blown out of proportion and taken beyond reason.
H.K. 21-08-2017 20:22 (GMT)
Hello again. To read Zinaida’ diary is very gripping and interesting. And the whole style looks like written by a young woman. Such a good short story, the one who wrote it should consider to become an author.
But I think, and hope you agree, that it is a hoax.

Several times more than one tent is mentioned, it does not match with the clear evidence (one tent found by the search party). Then, if there would have been a snow storm, the tent has to be covered with snow (ok could be melted down by the sun), but at least there would not be any footsteps next to the tent. If some panicked as described, they would run away in several directions, but the footsteps prove that they left the area more or less well-ordered. And also the rest does not fit, how could the four hikers come to the ravine buried under some meters of snow? And that someone in the sky calls the names of the hikers and then tosses them through the air? For me this sounds a little bit too odd to be true. But a good story, and maybe some parts are true (for example the father of the author was actually some part of the search member). You know, if you want to tell a lie, built it up with as much true facts as possible.

@Nigel: I informed me further about ball lightning. Was is true, state of the today’s scientific knowledge is that ball lightning exists, but happens very rare. But there is no other agreement. Some sources tell that the ball is moving up and down, some tell that it is moving to the right and to the left. Some sources tell that the ball can pass almost everything without damage, some sources tell that it burns everything that comes in contact with and can hurt (and even kill) humans. Some tell it vanishes without a noise, some tell it vanishes with a large explosion. So this is the problem with ball lightning. It exists, but we know as good as nothing about it. So almost impossible to discuss about it when you know nothing.
What is quite clear in my opinion is that a burning stove (that was probably unused) or a fire can never produce such a lot of energy to trigger a ball lightning.

Regarding the ball lightning theory I don’t think someone in the tent was hit by the ball. If a ball of energy hits a human in a tent and some other human are around, there have to be evidences as massive burning marks. But the ball could be around them (when the photos of K are real they look like shot from the inside of the tent). Maybe first the ball (or the balls) did not look dangerous but at some point the hikers realized they are in a great danger. Maybe because the balls accidental came closer to the tent. That would prove first making the photos and then panicking and cutting the tent. Some sources say that when there is a ball lightning, there also is a storm around. Could be a hint why the footsteps look like normal going. Because they wanted to run, but because of the storm they were only able to move normal. But in a storm in the winter wouldn’t there be snowfall that must have hide the footsteps? Not necessarily I would say.

Nevertheless, what I can’t understand is how a ball lightning can be such a danger to the hikers that they all left the tent is a hurry. You only leave your tent in such a night with only few clothes when you are in a great danger. If the ball hit no one, they could not have known that the ball is a danger to them (because surely if there was a ball lightning, the hikers did not know anything about it). But if the ball hits someone and that scared them so that they left the tent, the hit must have been very powerful. And this would have been noticed in the report. It is really hard for me to imagine how it could have happened.
Nigel Evans 21-08-2017 10:07 (GMT)
@Anna

"Semyon was trying to light a fire inside of his tent "
"At first I thought Semyon had managed to light a fire inside his tent but the moment I looked outside, the light vanished."
"I was packing supplies in my tent"
"I heard a tent being ripped and when I looked outside"

Either the translation from Russian to English is very poor or the original is rubbish.
This is the last thing she wrote (scroll down) - https://mysteryinksite.wordpress.com/2016/03/12/the-dyatlov-pass-mystery/
Anna Yordanova 21-08-2017 09:23 (GMT)
@Nigel.I didn`t see anywhere the author to have mentioned multiple tents.I think the tent was divided in two sections.
Nigel Evans 21-08-2017 07:33 (GMT)
@Anna - the author is refering to multiple tents? Yudin didn't turn back with extra food, he said goodbye at the outpost?
It's rubbish.
Loose-Cannon 21-08-2017 03:23 (GMT)
Dyatlov did it, at the treeline, with a big stick.
Anna Yordanova 20-08-2017 23:20 (GMT)
I cannot say Nigel.I found it very interesting.I was looking to find more information about the magnetic field on Kolat Syakhl when I came across this article.I can't prove its authenticity.
Nigel Evans 20-08-2017 23:06 (GMT)
@Anna - sounds like a fake diary to me.
Anna Yordanova 20-08-2017 23:04 (GMT)
ttps://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/3x9zs8/i_know_what_happened_on_kholat_syakhl/
Anna Yordanova 20-08-2017 22:59 (GMT)
I don't know Nigel.The man kept this diary for 50 years and gave it to his brother shortly before his death.The last entry is fascinating and describes the moment when the tent was slushed.It describes the orbs in the sky too.Apparently that night two Yuries vanished and Dyatlov asked all of to go out and look for them.
Anna Yordanova 20-08-2017 22:38 (GMT)
When the rescuers found the bodies under the cedar tree one of them found Kolmogorova 's diary and hid it. In this diary you can see Zina' s entries in the diary unknown to anyone involved in the official case. Zina wrote that Yudin is very suck. He fainted two times. When he was living, he shouted "You are all gonners! Dyatlov killed you all"! I am sorry guys but I could not copy the link(I am on my phone now) The diary was provided by the nephew of the man who found it. Later on when I have access to my laptop I will send a link.
Nigel Evans 20-08-2017 21:29 (GMT)
@Anna - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundersnow .
You're discussing macro weather events involving huge energies...?
Anna Yordanova 20-08-2017 20:46 (GMT)
I mentioned the stove Nigel ,because it was the only source in the tent that could produce heat.What else could be a source of heat in this circumstances?
Nigel Evans 20-08-2017 20:36 (GMT)
@HK :-

"But surely it is a hint that there was something unusual or at least they thought."
AK (nuclear industry) and SZ (KGB) were sensitive assets and there was concern of defection or abduction. Once they found the ravine four they closed the case against Ivanov's wishes.

Question one - i'm not qualified to give a professional answer on this one. All i know is that YK had a massive burn on his lower leg 31cm long with charring and with the skin blown open. There are a number of areas where the pathology seems unsatisfactory, LD's tongue, AK's neck and perhaps YD/YK's injuries (charred digits frostbite or burns?). YD's possible pulmonary edema has several possible causes including electrocution it seems. Also he had singed hair.
You are assuming an electrical discharge but microwave burns are another possibility.

Question two - No as stated below it could pass through the tent harmlessly and just burn human tissue with microwaves.

@Anna - i think you would need a bit more energy than a stove Happy
Nigel Evans 20-08-2017 20:16 (GMT)
@John - sometimes when i click submit the form doesn 't succeed in posting the contents to the website. But if i click on "Add comment" again the text is still present in the textbox for a reattempt. So i never lose a post. When using Firefox.
Anna Yordanova 20-08-2017 20:01 (GMT)
I agree with H. K. If the cause of death was lightning strike this would be noticed by the pathologists working on the case. Lightnings in winter is very rare phenomenon called thundersnow. The snow is not conductor but insulator of electricity, due to the low density. So, in order to have a lightning we must have a warm air entering the cold air, moving fast in vertical direction. They lit the fire which provoked baroclinic pressure and therefore lightning. In this case it is possible that the ones near the cedar were struck by a lightning, but does not explain why they have left the tent when the stove wasn't even used and didn't create warm air in order to create baroclinic pressure.
To John I read your posts once you posted them
H.K. 20-08-2017 19:39 (GMT)
Hello Nigel. I have to admin such a large search party seems a little bit oversized for a simple alpine accident. On the other side, it were nine people that died at once. But surely it is a hint that there was something unusual or at least they thought.

The ball lightning theory is very interesting. Also there are a lot of other sources that deal with this topic.

Question one: If someone (e.g. the two Yuris’s) were hit and injured by ball lightning, wouldn’t this be noticed in the autopsy report? OK some of them had burning injuries on the hand, but these injuries happened when they tried to warm up on the fire. Hit by a ball lightning with 300.000 volt must cause dead or heavy injuries. But nothing mentioned in the report.

Question two: If a ball lightning hit the tent, or someone inside, wouldn’t it have the impact similar to a normal lightning strike? In this case I would expect burning marks and devastation at the tent.
Nigel Evans 20-08-2017 17:11 (GMT)
@HK/Anna - because the DPI group included sensitive assets the Soviet hierarchy deployed significant resources in the investigation, something like 30 men from police teams/kgb teams and alpine experts based there for months. No criticism of the tent pitch or placement was ever made, the slope was too shallow for avalanche risk, they knew what they were doing.

Q. and you fear that you could be buried in an avalanche, what would you do?
A. Cuddle the girl next to you? Happy Ok joking, as said before you'd be safer inside. The tent and it's contents would weigh close to a metric tonne and it would take some avalanche to move that a long way and you'd have a far better chance when it stopped moving, more airspace for breathing and escape.

"Must have been a natural force, as the original report says." - yes absolutely.

Q. but outside they calm down and go down the hill in a group and almost in a row
A. what if they were assisting two injured members? The BL theory has several versions, one is that YD and YK (who clearly die first) suffer electrocution at the tent. This leaves them both groggy with YK badly limping as the pain sets in. So they need an able bodied guy each side of them to get them down the hill and at walking pace. Hence the side by side nature of the steps. Also the report definately talks about 8 OR 9 sets of footprints. This could be explained as YK sometimes making little contact with the ground. It also explains why they left so urgently in their socks and couldn't return whilst the BL stayed at the tent.

Q. A lightning ball inside or next to the tent?
A. Ball lightning is famous for passing through solid objects without any damage, windows, even pressurised aircraft fuselages. Or it can demolish buildings, no one can explain it's behaviour.

Q. maybe because of the stove
A. the stove was found unused.

Q. For example the hikers did not cut the tent, but the search persons did.
A. the rescue team admitted to damaging the tent but not the large cuts made from the inside.

"but I see no direct evidence that proves it wrong".
We'll have to agree to disagree. Happy, whatever forced them to flee also forced them to stay away for a considerable period and seek alternative means of shelter. Fear of avalanche doesn't cut it imo, as Einstein said.
John Wolfe 20-08-2017 16:57 (GMT)
Hi everybody, I tried to post a few answers to questions on both Friday and Saturday but I have Frontier Telephone (the absolute worst internet / DSL service in the USA, they are corporate scumbags) anyway, here goes:

Anna -- please read my previous posts about the terrain and go to the links to see videos of the area in both winter conditions and spring. Ball lightning is still poorly understood and would be back in 1959 -- however it has been reported that it exhibits a "directed" behavior in that it is attracted to metal objects and conductors, as well as nodes in an electrical field. A tent, with a metal stove in it, surrounded by a fairly even and smooth field of several feet of snow (and in high winds) would be a node -- as would any human (also a conductor) standing outside the tent and looking at the strange balls of light. This is why you should not stand under a tree in a lightning storm -- humans conduct better than a tree so the electrical energy would jump from the tree to the human -- killing any it hits. Ball lightning has been reported that has both killed on contact and/or exploded on contact (in one reported case knocking down a stone wall). In the last photos taken there is something like a bright ball of light in the photo which seems to be coming closer to the camera / hiker using the camera. The "last" photo seems to show a ball VERY CLOSE to the camera and there are three dark head-like objects at the bottom edge of the frame. If that BL exploded that close to a person it would account for many of the major injuries (compression injury of the ribcage, injury to the skull, and in one hiker a small tear in his heart). Hikers then retreat into the tent - but BL is known to move both through and around in strange ways -- so it may have entered the tent - the metal stove was found inside and near the entrance of the tent. The only safe way out would be to slash the rear of the tent and flee -- ASAP ! -- which is what they did, not even stopping to dress for the cold nor retrieve their boots.
I think the hikers originally thought they were running toward their stash of extra clothing, shoes, felt boot-liners, food and etc. -- however in the confusion ran the path of least resistance: downhill with the wind at their backs. Photos of the area taken by the Russian rescuers show snow blown in that direction. (leaving mini-drifts around small objects, like rocks or footprints) Videos of the tent site in winter snow done in February, decades later, show the same wind blowing in the same direction.

ALSO: the videos posted also show that the hillside was strewn with rocks which would be mostly covered with snow and could account for some of the minor injuries - to hands, arms, legs or face and might even account for some of the skull fractures. Though these skull fractures could also have been caused by BL exploding close to the head (see the "last" photo with the three "heads" at the bottom). Running at full speed in the dark in a Siberian snowstorm, down a rock strewn hill -- if / when you trip over something (remember they are barefoot) you would put your hands in front of you if you could - this might account for many of the hand injuries.

ALSO: an explosion next to your head could cause the fractures seen in some of the skulls. There were very little external body (skin bruising) marks that would indicate the fractures were caused by blunt trauma (like in an attack by persons unknown) -- again indicating an air overpressure and not a weapon or falling against a rock.

The hikers were most likely fascinated by the balls of light and went out of the tent to view, and photograph, and only later realized the danger - retreating into the tent.

No murders by the peaceful Manti, no yeti, no space aliens, no Soviet plot, no KGB, no weapons testing, no rockets, no fight among the hikers -- just a bad place to set up a tent, but then they were in a storm (see photo of setting up the tent) and in a hurry to do so before dark. They probably didn't orient themselves to the slope so that they knew which way was the hut and etc., but oriented the tent to avoid the wind blowing into the hooked opening (no zipper) -- and the wind was so strong they did not set up the stove but left it where the boots were found -- at the tent's opening -- their bedding as far from that wind as possible.

ALSO: the tent is plenty large for the ten original hikers.

ALSO: no avalanche was possible as they were just about at the hill-top of a gentle slope. (again, see my posts of the area, including marking flags where bodies and items were recovered)

ALSO: note that mountain climbers, far more experienced than the nine were, make fatal mistakes all the time -- the sad part of this incident was that all perished in miserable conditions. My heart goes out to them !

LASTLY: please read all of my posts.
H.K. 20-08-2017 15:15 (GMT)
Hello Nigel. You are right, the avalanche or “fear of avalanche” theory has some weak points. I can’t deny it. But everyone says they were so experienced, they knew everything and were not able to make mistakes. And this is proven wrong every day where very experienced people do big mistakes each day. And beyond this, they were experienced but still young. The leader was just 23 old. In our today’s world with 23 you are still a beginner.

Anyways, when you are in a tent with nine people and there is not so much space and you fear that you could be buried in an avalanche, what would you do? Staying there and hoping that the tent will provide some shelter? I would try to get out as fast as I can. But of course, this is speculation.

I think the issue is obvious. Why did they left the tent only with few clothes? It must have been a great danger or at least they thought it is a great danger. But a danger that is only in the area around the tent, in other case they would not have stopped at the cedar and make a fire. And the danger must have appeared after some time, because three of them were going back to the tent. And a danger that reach some hundred meters, because they were about one km away. Beyond this, one question is why did not all go back to the tent? Two answers are possible. First answer is that they were not sure the tent still is there or at least can be reached (e.g. buried under some tons of snow (avalanche) or burned down (lightning ball)). Second answer is that they feared the danger is still there or could be coming back.
What I think is clear is that there was no living danger as other human or animals. In this case they would never have stopped at the cedar and made the fire. Must have been a natural force, as the original report says.

What Anna says is of course a good point. They must have been in a hurry, because they cut the tent, but outside they calm down and go down the hill in a group and almost in a row. Again, I can imagine that the hikers acted so because they feared an avalanche. But of course, some weak points. A lightning ball inside or next to the tent? Can’t be proven wrong, but I’m not convinced.

The only thing what really proves the cutting tent and walking down the hill is that they heard or saw something and they thought they are in a great danger. Because of this they cut the tent and outside they are welcomed by other human with machine guns. The men with machine guns guard the nine hikers to the cedar and then leave them alone because it should look like a dead with hypothermia. But makes this sense? I think not.

Another idea I had was something like poison gas in the tent, maybe because of the stove. This explains the hurry to come out of the tent and calming down when you are outside. But surely does not explain why going over a km away to the cedar. Instead it makes sense to cut the whole tent, get all the clothes and other things and move back to the next town.

Of course another explanation is that some facts are no real facts. For example the hikers did not cut the tent, but the search persons did. But if we doubt one fact, we can doubt all facts and each story is possible.

So when I consider all facts (snow, winter, mountain, tent outside, fear and a hurry, going a km away but later coming back) in my opinion it is more likely they were in fear of an avalanche than they fled from a lightning ball. The “fear of avalanche theory” has some weak points (the experienced hikers estimated the situation wrong), but I see no direct evidence that proves it wrong. But of course I won’t claim it’s the true, I simply say I can imagine that it happened so.
Anna Yordanova 20-08-2017 12:54 (GMT)
I am a bit confused.So they have cut the tent to escape,but then when realized that there is no avalanche they just kept walking towards the wood.Why they didn`t return back to the tent where it would be much more safer then in the forest.If they had seen a ball lightning why they didn`t run,but decided to walk in a straight line 500 m?Did the ball lightning hold them hostages?Or it was another humans?
Nigel Evans 20-08-2017 12:31 (GMT)
@HK - hi, welcome to the group.

Q. But back in the 50s did the hikers know this?
A. Yes absolutely, these people were mountain experts, the trip would have qualified Dyatlov as a master alpinist or whatever the Russian title was. The route was graded as type 3 - "most difficult".

Q. Did they lose their original track?
A. We don't know for sure but it's highly unlikely, the tree (brush) line started only 500m away. All the signs are that they made an intentional detour to observe something. YK's camera was found in the tent on a makeshift tripod. This is very unusual behaviour for a group that have got a bit lost in a whiteout. The slits support this theory.

I have to repeat that if you fear an avalanche getting out of the tent doesn't make you safer, if anything less so. The fear with an avalanche is that if you are lucky enough to not get dashed on rocks you get buried in snow that sets like concrete around you preventing you from digging yourself out. Modern off piste skiers carry an airbag that defeats this danger, creating an airspace that permits movement afterwards. In effect the tent would act as a big airbag. And the weight of everything in the tent would act as an anchor against a weaker avalanche compared to just a single person. Much safer inside than outside imo.

Glad you agree they used the cedar as a lookout even if we can't agree why Happy

Yes the photos are intriguing, imo they must be genuine photos of a "light event" or fakes. The damage theory doesn't hold water, pun intended.

ZK got the furthest because women survive cold better than men, this is well documented. But there are signs of radiation exposure which imo explains the "bunching".

Q. but there are also some facts that speak against it (no evidence at all for this phenomenon, no melted snow.
A. Sorry, there are several documented accounts from reliable eye witnesses of lights in this area at that time and then there is the hot spot (search the page).

Ball lightning isn't an invention, it's a well documented phenomenon with thousands of cases. Considering it further the DPI BL theory doesn't actually require the object to move downhill and attack them at the ravine, the 2 yuris could have suffered an electrocution event at the tent as they got out or just fell out of the tree on to the fire concussed and unattended and the ravine 4 just suffered crushing from a collapsed den. All the BL had to do was stay at the tent. The key question to answer is what threat coud make them leave the tent in their socks and keep them away for some time but unafraid to light a fire 1500m away? Fear of avalanche is better than many theories but is too weak imo, as Einstein said :- "As simple as possible but no simpler".
H.K. 20-08-2017 11:17 (GMT)
Hello Nigel. What you write is absolutely true from today’s point of view. We can consider it as a fact that no avalanche hit the tent (otherwise it would be much more damaged). Also the tent was in an area where the risk of an avalanche is very low. But back in the 50s did the hikers know this? Probably no. And they lost their original track, so they could not know exactly where they are. We know it was just end of the day when they built up the tent, so maybe they could not see how far away the top of the slope is. Consider you are sleeping in a tent and suddenly there is a loud rumble and someone next to you cries “an avalanche is coming”. What you would do is grabbing what you can and leave the area as fast as possible.

From today’s point of view I think leaving the tent was the wrong decision. Why? Because the tent is not damaged except the cuts from the hikers. If they would have stayed in the tent, they would have survived. Of course this can’t be proved, but the fact that the tent is not damaged speaks for it.

I can’t see wat speaks against climbing on the cedar. Imagine you are sitting there in the night and you realize that the fire is not enough and if you do nothing you will certainly die. But you know there is a tent with everything you need, but you don’t know if it is still there or under some meters of snow (still assuming they feared an avalanche). And you don’t know exactly where it is. So for me it sounds absolute logical to climb on a tree and look for the tent. And someone did this and saw the tent and because of this three hikers tried to go back to the tent.

Regarding the photos you are correct, I can’t explain them. But as you know, they are very controversial. Even if they were made by a human (and not because of external damage), they are so unclear, that you can interpret everything in the photos that is causing a large light (UFO, lightning ball, plane, atomic bomb, whatever). But of course, if the photos are real, this speaks for some external that is making a large light.

I think that they were found within 330 meters means nothing. They started in a group but Dyatlov gave up first, then Slobodin and then Kolmogorova. Why the woman made the furthest distance? Because on the fire under the cedar the women got the best places.

I think you favor the lightning ball theory. Surely, especially the last photos support the theory, but there are also some facts that speak against it (no evidence at all for this phenomenon, no melted snow, no burning marks on the tent …). What I simply can’t imagine is that a lightning ball suddenly appears and “hunts” and kills all the hikers when never ever before or after this tragedy such a thing happened. It sounds too much “made-up” (hope this is the correct word).
Nigel Evans 20-08-2017 07:30 (GMT)
@Dyatlover-Man - Ok, not proven fact, but commonly assumed fact, fair point.
Either they chose the cedar as a lookout or because it provided big dead branches that would burn well or both. Using it as a lookout works well in the BL theory... Happy

Sorry thumbs down on the Mk3 version, Pink Floyd!? Not enough gravitas for this. The Mk2 version was the best. Still knocked out by the Celtic Spirit choice.

AFilmCritic.
Loose-Cannon 20-08-2017 00:51 (GMT)
Hey Nigel... I decided you were right in that the video shouldn't have the same music twice, so I remade it. I moved the first section to the rear and added piano. My kinda piano. Roflmao https://youtu.be/nFSQGM9KGKE .
Loose-Cannon 19-08-2017 23:51 (GMT)
"No one would bother to climb a cedar to monitor the tent area 1500m away for avalanche risk at night. The fact that they did so points to something being visible at the tent. Something illuminated perhaps."

Fact they did so... fact fact... fact! OR, they simply broke off limbs.... for a fire. There are no 'facts' here. lol
Nigel Evans 19-08-2017 23:27 (GMT)
@HK - hi there. Problems with your theory :-

They were quite close to the top of the mountain and there was very very little chance of an avalanche on that slope.
So no one flees a tent in their socks because they've heard a rumble nearby, they would have as much chance in the tent as outside, in fact it would be more dangerous further down than at the top. Even if they did erroneously decide to leave they would have discussed it first and had time to collect footwear and outer clothing. No need to slit open the tent.
No one would bother to climb a cedar to monitor the tent area 1500m away for avalanche risk at night. The fact that they did so points to something being visible at the tent. Something illuminated perhaps.
You haven't explained the photos - http://dyatlov-pass.com/controversy#zolotaryovcamera . The argument against water damage etc is that the Eagle photo exactly matches a seperate eye witness account and the three heads looks exactly what you would expect of a shot of an extremely bright object from inside the tent. That would be some coincidence for random damage.
The returning three all expire within 330 m of each other. I would point at this and argue that this is too small a distance to be simply by chance there has to be a reason.
Loose-Cannon 19-08-2017 22:42 (GMT)
"just read the metaphysic.narod.ru link."

Sounds like you got further then I did. lol
H.K. 19-08-2017 21:59 (GMT)
Hi everybody.

Good page but almost always there is a simple natural explanation and I am sure this is also the case here. And nothing extraordinary like the Yeti or UFOs or lightning balls that follow and kill people or whatever.
As long as there are no new facts, everything we can do is speculate and create theories. So I think the following happened:

It is evening and they are sleeping in the tent. Some are wearing more clothes than other because when you sleep with nine people in a tent there are warmer places in the middle and colder places at the sites. Then they hear a loud rumble and think an avalanche is coming and they are in great danger. Of course today we know no avalanche did hit the tent, because the tent was intact. So maybe they heard an avalanche somewhere next to them, or maybe it was a thunder or a small earthquake. Fact is they thought they were in a great danger. So they grabbed some clothes very fast and cut the tent to get out very quick. Outside they calm down a little bit but still think the avalanche is coming soon. And they act very logical and organized. They stay in a group, grab each other on the hands so that no one gets lost and leave the area almost in a row. In the distance they see the wood and the big cedar and they go there to search for shelter.
At the cedar they act very logical again. They make a fire to warm up. What they did not know: In a night with temperatures around -30 grad Celsius a fire alone does not help so much. So they try everything to make the fire bigger but after some time they realize that this has no success and when they stay at the cedar they will die. At this some of the hikers are just undercooled, at least the one that wear only some few clothes. Then someone is climbing the cedar to look whether the avalanche (they were thinking of) hit the tent or not. And they see the tent is still intact or at least they think it could be. At this point the two Yuri’s are just dead or as good as. And again they act logical because the other hikers take some clothes from the Yuri’s to have better chances to survive.
And then they split (maybe in agreement or in a conflict). Igor, Zinaida and Rustem decide to go back to the tent what makes sense. But all three of them are undercooled and exhausted and they don’t make it and die of hypothermia.
The other four are wearing more clothes and they decide to create a den. And they find a good place. In a ravine below ice or maybe a small cave in a wall of the ravine. There they are protected by the cold wind. But as we know, the protection was not as good as expected. Some part of the wall of the ravince collapses and buries the hiker under some meters of slow. This again matches the situation earlier in the tent, that there was some rumble (maybe some smaller earthquakes). If some tons of snow are lying on you, this matches exactly the injuries the hikers had (pressed ribs without external injuries).

Also the other facts can be explained with this theory:
Rustem’s outer injuries: Possible that they did fight about the clothes of the two Yuris’s and Rustem was hit on the head. Or he was the one climbing the cedar and was hit while climbing/falling down.

The radiation: First of all, in the original report no radiation was mentioned. But let’s assume there was radiation. Then it is quite probably that the radiation was on the clothes before the trip. They were engineers and it was a time where several people worked with radiation and it was a time were safety standards were low.

The missing tongue: It is the same as with the eyes. During decomposition the soft tissues are affected first. O they were eaten by scavengers. Maybe Lyudmila bit up a piece of her tongue during the snow collapsed and the rest was done by decomposition and/or scavengers. The original report simply says the tongue is missing, nothing more.


So we know they were experienced and exactly so the reacted. Today we know there was no avalanche, but it the night they did not know this. And also experienced people can do wrong decisions as it happens each day. So the tragedy was caused by some bad decisions (starting with the position of the tent) and simple a little bit bad luck (that the wall of the ravine collapsed).

Would like to hear your opinions and if there is something that speaks clearly against this theory.

Greetings from Germany
Nigel Evans 19-08-2017 21:07 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - just read the metaphysic.narod.ru link.

Oh he was so close! But in his story the microwaves/UHF are from an alien craft which makes repeated assaults on the group, pity.

As said before the fire in a snow covered forest 1500m away rules out a sentient threat. Also he doesn't see that the returning three survive the ravine four and nurse them passing clothing from the dead to the living (LD -> SZ).

A good effort, close but no cigar Happy
Nigel Evans 19-08-2017 18:13 (GMT)
Correction, meant " Placed by ZK as she pressed on?"
Nigel Evans 19-08-2017 18:12 (GMT)
Yes the software concatenates URLs with the next line. Add a space and full stop, like this :-

http://image.ibb.co/jYosrk/arfhtswtrhreyj.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/gWrCrk/cdjhdty.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/ibqrHQ/frgjdrtyj.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/iNNSrk/drtghwstrhjrdk.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/msfK45/preview_35.jpg .
Loose-Cannon 19-08-2017 18:07 (GMT)
Wish the board didnt run all those links together.... There are 5 links there.
Nigel Evans 19-08-2017 16:59 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - big thanks.

I liked the photo of RS as found in the snow with his cap looking like it was placed after he lay down. Placed by SZ as she pressed on?

The metaphysic.narod.ru page looks interesting and very detailed, i've had a skim read but i'll have a proper one later and reply.
Loose-Cannon 19-08-2017 16:04 (GMT)
8:05 is YURI KRIVONISCHENKO....... mislabeled as RUSTEM SLOBODIN. Not even worth posting the site thats how bad it is. Hard one to find... better save it. http://i.imgur.com/h83v951.jpg 8:19 is literally everywhere, but here is one. http://ymbdad.blogspot.com/2015/02/nsfw-everyday-strange-dyatlov-pass.html better save it. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-c5CarLAIA5E/VM8tghlSfoI/AAAAAAAADDE/mTmcHTIAaa0/s1600/Dyatlov%2BPass%2Bbody%2B6.jpg 8:54.... RUSTEM SLOBODIN. No Idea, good luck finding again. Likely not on any page worth a squat. Better save it... http://image.ibb.co/gM5Gz5/712202.jpg 8;56 ... RUSTEM SLOBODIN This photo is literally everywhere. Here is is for you... better save it.
http://image.ibb.co/nfFoCQ/Rustem_Slobodin_post_mortem_2.jpg But... if your looking for something to chew on a while. http://www.metaphysic.narod.ru/15_Djatlow.htm
Nigel Evans 19-08-2017 14:54 (GMT)
Good point :-
8.05, 8.19, 8.54, 8.56.
Loose-Cannon 19-08-2017 14:21 (GMT)
Which pictures?
Nigel Evans 19-08-2017 11:35 (GMT)
@Anna - @Loose-Cannon is correct (don't get to say that very often) there are many scenarios from golf ball sized objects that last for seconds to mile wide objects that move at thousands of mph and last for a long time.

@Loose-Cannon - all nice work, but i wouldn't reuse the celtic spirit track as good as it is (well done for seeing the connection, touch of genius). I'd go for more pathos maybe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtLHiou7anE .
Some of the morgue photos i haven't seen before, would appreciate if you could provide a link.
Loose-Cannon 19-08-2017 08:04 (GMT)
Laff... I'm just measin with ya Nigel.

I revamped the vid making it more... Flashy? Also added a whole new segment to the end. https://youtu.be/CE-4LdRfsQo
Loose-Cannon 19-08-2017 01:43 (GMT)
Nigel is about to tell you all about how fireballs can last hours (if not days) and purposely chase you down several times while zapping and exploding. Like a bear.... dont turn and run because it will chase you.
Anna Yordanova 18-08-2017 23:52 (GMT)
I just read a very interesting article about BL by John Lowke,who claims that the rough lifetime of a ball lightning is only 10 sec and can be explained as the time for the ions to be dispersed to the ground.As we all know the footprints disappear after 500 m and to me sounds absolutely impossible for the hikers to have run 500 m for 10 sec.
Nigel Evans 18-08-2017 22:14 (GMT)
@Anna - Happy
Best to check to opening times for the cafe.
Anna Yordanova 18-08-2017 21:31 (GMT)
I am only joking Nigel.I will do my best to visit the caffe you recommend.
Nigel Evans 18-08-2017 20:35 (GMT)
@Anna - thanks nice offer but i can't see my wife letting me go camping in Siberia with a girl i met on the internet...

None of the other theories will be supported with photographs....

I know Rendlesham quite well.

Assuming you have a car checkout the Bawdsey Cafe for lunch - http://www.boathousecafe.co.uk/ and if you want a drink - http://www.theramsholtarms.com/
Anna Yordanova 18-08-2017 19:19 (GMT)
Or we can set off to Kolat Syakhl to observe the ball lightnings in situ.
Anna Yordanova 18-08-2017 19:15 (GMT)
Thank you Nigel for the link.Next week I am going camping near Rendlesham forest,famous with the UFO incident in 1980.I hope I won`t have an encounter with one.Thank you for all the information you are sharing with us,but before something is proven 100%(not just hypothesis)I cannot conclude anything.I only express my opinion,but I am not a crime investigator digging into cold cases.No survivors from this incident so we don`t know who is wrong who is right.I respect your opinion.
Nigel Evans 18-08-2017 14:05 (GMT)
@Anna - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1A9CAt7ZfI&t=301s
Nigel Evans 18-08-2017 14:00 (GMT)
@Sergei-Eisenstein - Didn't see a photo of the ball lightning, did i miss it? Happy

@Anna - The theory, perhaps just my theory is that complex electric topologies in the atmosphere combined with wind create large regions of microwave energy which seem to include visible plasmoids possibly as solitons. Lightning can do something similar. One of the documented effects is a loud rattling as the microwaves stimulate the inner ear. Other effects include burns and charred extremities. Not documented but quite plausible is interference with the nervous system and possibly pain sensation. So that's perhaps why they fled the tent, but not because of the ball lightning but because of it's cause.
Anna Yordanova 18-08-2017 13:03 (GMT)
@John Wolfe.Thanks for the links.I have seen a ball lightning when I was a child.I don't deny the presence of BL in the area where the hikers were found dead,but I cannot accept that all of them died because of it.They have been experienced,well educated and very responsible hikers.They have been in quiet difficult terrains.I cannot imagine that they will run outside with no boots,leave all of their jackets inside and die from hypothermia just because they saw a fire ball in the sky
They wouldn't build a den to hide from a fire ball and they wouldn't have the injuries they have.At least one or two of them would be alive.But no one is, unfortunately.And I don't believe that the BL killed them.
Loose-Cannon 18-08-2017 12:41 (GMT)
Hopefully you saw the whole thing because there is a pause.... Don't let it fool ya!!
Nigel Evans 18-08-2017 08:39 (GMT)
@Stanley-Kubrick - Cool. Liked the Celtic spirit medley, nice touch.
Nigel Evans 18-08-2017 08:15 (GMT)
@John Wolfe - not forgetting - http://ball-lightning.info/
Loose-Cannon 18-08-2017 01:30 (GMT)
Ok guys/gals... The slide vid is more/less complete. I may go back and add a few subtitles.... perhaps a whole new section on the end to show more investigation, personal items etc. It is what it is. My main goal was to consolidate many of these pics in a somewhat entertaining somewhat timeline vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5thgmuNblCI
John Wolfe 18-08-2017 00:24 (GMT)
note to Anna Yordanova: while fireballs / ball-lightning are rare -- they tend to be seen in specific locations in repeated observances. There are many places you can google to see these places. The fireballs are seen numerous times in one year but are not predictable. Because of this (unpredictability) the balls are seen from only a distance and not close up. However, in various books on ball-lightning, there are descriptions of balls of fire which sound a lot like these glowing spheres seen around Dead Mountain on various occasions by people who were far enough away that it was only a visual phenomena and did not effect them directly. The books on ball-lightning often describe the destructive force which can be released when the ball explodes -- enough force to knock down a stone wall -- or when it comes in contact with a person -- often killing them.

here are some fire-ball sites:
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=marfa+lights&oq=marfa&gs_l=psy-ab.1.2.0l4.3993.5823.0.9982.6.5.0.0.0.0.212.911.0j4j1.5.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.5.908.0..35i39k1j0i131k1j0i20k1.bAeEAcyw6MY and here: https://www.google.com/search?q=Brown+Mountain+Lights&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLUz9U3MDYuTjdRAjNNs4xzi7QkQ_JLizKLSxxLSooSk0sy8_OCM1NSyxMriwHxTnDsMwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1mJrPt9_VAhUQ5mMKHfQWCH8QxA0IpgEwEw&biw=1649&bih=878 or go to: https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=ball+lightning&oq=ball+liht&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i10k1l4.4416.17420.0.21377.20.15.3.0.0.0.215.2530.0j11j3.14.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..3.17.2691.6..0j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i67k1j0i20k1.RnNJQ_kCs6I
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 17:42 (GMT)
Imma little bit anal when it comes to changing slides with the tempo of the music and how the transition happens. lol
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 17:41 (GMT)
4min into a 8min video, and it aint getting any easier.
Nigel Evans 17-08-2017 17:33 (GMT)
Ah the, "do not like to affirm any one scenario is correct given the severe lack of information on the subject" excuse....

Looking forward to the vid.
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 17:21 (GMT)
Laff.... No, I told you. I have plenty of ideas, but do not like to affirm any one scenario is correct given the severe lack of information on the subject. Could have been anything... including but not limited to BL.

Hey... you may like this video. A one stop shop for like a hundred related pics.
Nigel Evans 17-08-2017 17:01 (GMT)
Ah the "Im busy working on a youtube video slide show" excuse...
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 16:50 (GMT)
Hey... c'mon man, Im busy working on a video slide show of incident pictures to upload to youtube. lol
Nigel Evans 17-08-2017 16:32 (GMT)
@ROFLMAO - well lets hear them then, i might be able to offer some constructive criticism, maybe even some destructive.... Happy
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 16:17 (GMT)
Oh I have plenty of theories. ROFLMFAO
Nigel Evans 17-08-2017 15:08 (GMT)
Any theory requires conjecture, your theory would if you had one...
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 15:00 (GMT)
Not hardly... Your reaching far and wide with conjecture to explain... more conjecture. :/

Your getting into bigfoot and alien territory with unsubstantiated claims.
Nigel Evans 17-08-2017 14:54 (GMT)
@Cool - you're missing possible air pockets, the injury profile suggests a narrow (100x30cm?) but heavy (1 tonne?) piece of the roof to fall on two chests with one head in between.
So that allows for side spaces.

Just too easy, like taking candy from a baby... Happy
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 14:47 (GMT)
Cool.

But I must have missed the evidence that they were dug out of the den, ROFL

In addition, this isnt your dainty light and fluffy snow, this your heavy packed snow "if" of course its going to crush skulls and chests..... which is your entire case. The contradictions are thick with with one.
Nigel Evans 17-08-2017 14:30 (GMT)
@ROFL - oh i do like fencing with you, it's so easy...

http://ravallirepublic.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/article_a0b12a3a-237b-11e0-a516-001cc4c002e0.html "Without such a device the standard outcome is 85 to 90 percent survival for 15 minutes, 30 percent at 30 minutes and only a few after an hour of being buried."
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 13:52 (GMT)
"Not if the returning 3 were nursing the den4 after digging them out of the snow."

Yeah... they dug them out of PACKED snow AGAIN by hand in record time before the die of suffocation (what like 4min), nurse them, then ultimately leave them face down hunched over a boulder.

Remember when I said your crapping in your own kiddy pool? ROFL
Nigel Evans 17-08-2017 13:12 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - "THE 2YURIS CLOTHING ARTICLES WERE SALVAGED BY THE DEN4 AFTER THEIR DEATHS."
Not if the returning 3 were nursing the den4 after digging them out of the snow.... It would help if you read my posts...
But i'd agree that the timeline for the deaths of the 2yuris vs the den4 deaths is too tight, so maybe they just had an accident and fell out of the tree earlier. Frostbite makes you clumsy?
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 13:11 (GMT)
What hut?
Emma 17-08-2017 13:08 (GMT)
Is there any record of who was living in the hut, at that time?
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 12:57 (GMT)
One of the facts we actually know......

THE 2YURIS CLOTHING ARTICLES WERE SALVAGED BY THE DEN4 AFTER THEIR DEATHS.

If your lightning ball collapsed a den (no evidence for) AND killed the 2Yuris (knocked out of tree... whatever you like).... Then you would have to have TWO FIREBALLS happening god only knows how far apart because digging a den by hand in packed snow like that will NOT take 15 min.

Unfortunately a TWO fireball theory takes in from a 'possible' to over the moon fantastical.
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 12:46 (GMT)
"Note it doesn't have to be a huge explosion, just enough to trigger a collapse in the den and cause the 2yuris to fall."

Killin me man.... killin me!

How can a single explosion bury the den4 and 'cause the 2yuris to fall'.... WHEN THE DEN4 HAS ON THE 2YURIS CLOTHES??

Think about what your saying......
Anna Yordanova 17-08-2017 09:14 (GMT)
@Nigel I don't think that they will cooperate.
Nigel Evans 17-08-2017 08:58 (GMT)
@Anna - presumably someone would have to ask the Russian government and they might not be very helpful Happy
Anna Yordanova 17-08-2017 08:45 (GMT)
@Nigel Sorry Nigel I am unable to confirm the construction date. You may ask Valentin Degtyarev, the one who found it.
Nigel Evans 17-08-2017 08:20 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - no 2 isn't so bad, making progress. Happy

@KMM - there were burnt tree tops and an unusual number of dead birds (white grouse) found in the forest. Note it doesn't have to be a huge explosion, just enough to trigger a collapse in the den and cause the 2yuris to fall.

@Anna - i think you'd need to confirm the construction date to have a decent theory...
Loose-Cannon 17-08-2017 04:26 (GMT)
Nigel is the BL expert... he says there are reports of dead birds, burned tree tops, round burn marks in tree trunks, and melted snow areas that refroze? Im guessing it would be more of a zapping episode. My main issue with the theory is the injuries.
KMM 17-08-2017 03:35 (GMT)
Would not such an explosion have left a blast pattern in the trees, branches, snow that would still show in a month ?
Loose-Cannon 16-08-2017 22:55 (GMT)
Nigel... here is your fireball solution for having articles of clothing from cedar2 found on rev4. Enjoy


Fire ball explodes/zaps/burns at the treeline with ALL 9 tourists present. The injured were cared for 'in part' by starting a fire. Decent size lower limbs on cedar trees commonly die prematurely (reason why they could even be snapped off in the first place) which was used for said fire because the wood is dry... all other dead wood is buried under snow. Conditions at the tent are even worse, and now having a destroyed tent... returning to it 'for shelter' is futile.... your not taking badly injured and dying people a mile up hill in horrific temps and weather/wind anyhow.

It would not have taken long to figure out a small fire at the treeline exposed to the wind/weather will not work for long as injured Yuri and Yuri have just died from exposure. At this time IGOR DYATLOV, ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA, RUSTEM SLOBODIN, and ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV are the least injured and rectify the exposed situation by going 75m into the woods and into a ravine where they made an improvised shelter or 'den', AND relocated the remaining injured which are LYUDMILA DUBININA, SEMYON ZOLOTARYOV, and NIKOLAI THIBEAUX-BRIGNOLLES. Unknown who was incapacitated and had to be dragged/carried, and who could move their legs and walk with assistance.

With the den secured, IGOR DYATLOV, ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA, and RUSTEM SLOBODIN make an attempt to retrieve vital gear and clothing from the tent leaving ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV to care for the dying in the den. Unknown if all three went together or if separately after the prior not returning.... I would think this to be a group effort given the amount of goods needed from the tent. Ultimately ALL three die of hypothermia in the process.

Back at the den without the tent3 to return, the injured die and ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV eventually gives in to hypothermia himself being the last alive.

LYUDMILA DUBININA, SEMYON ZOLOTARYOV, and NIKOLAI THIBEAUX-BRIGNOLLES had massive injuries while ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV was in the best condition of all 9. His 'deformed neck' was a post mortem.

DIDCLAIMER.... This is about the only base BL 'fireball' scenario with slight variations possible, and I do not necessarily subscribe to this theory. it may be a #2 on my list.
Anna Yordanova 16-08-2017 20:24 (GMT)
@Loose Cannon
I came across the article yesterday.I will search the internet if I can find any ground level photos in the Russian sites.I agree that this are blurry.If this bunker exist,then it is a big deal.
Loose-Cannon 16-08-2017 19:53 (GMT)
This 'bunker'...

Is there any any actual ground level pictures? Or is this super blurry google earth image all there is? Thousands of people have been going to this area in recent years... You would think it be a big deal.
Nigel Evans 16-08-2017 19:49 (GMT)
@Anna - the existence of the fire rules out a lot of scenarios.
Anna Yordanova 16-08-2017 19:37 (GMT)
I said what I think.They were killed -not by Yeti,but another humans(if we can call them like that).I respect everyone else`s opinion,but we may never find the truth.It is sad that this people died in such a terrible way.
Anna Yordanova 16-08-2017 19:21 (GMT)
@Nigel.OK ,lets blame the BL for every single death in the region.
@Loose Cannon.The bunker is 30 m long and 10m wide as far as I remember.Unfortunately I can`t check personally.
Loose-Cannon 16-08-2017 19:10 (GMT)
Wow.. look at the top of this image and go do some googlefoo. I'm sure you will find it was.... A fireball

https://i.imgur.com/zveawtZ_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=low
Nigel Evans 16-08-2017 18:49 (GMT)
Do tell
Loose-Cannon 16-08-2017 18:46 (GMT)
Really? You haven't heard of the other people found dead in the area?
Nigel Evans 16-08-2017 18:37 (GMT)
@Anna - the BL killed 9 mansi?
Nigel Evans 16-08-2017 18:32 (GMT)
@Dena - hi, So you're into the Yeti theory or something similar
As said before the idea that they fled a sentient threat and then lit a fire at the cedar 1500 m away in a snow covered forest is complete nonsense.
Loose-Cannon 16-08-2017 18:25 (GMT)
Experienced rarely means computant.... Especially when you botched the investigation which creates the conundrum in the first place, then run out of ideas so decide to pick a narrative appease the masses without any 'experience' as a ball lightning scientist. Why put so much faith in a revised opinion given by a person that was part of the problem from the beginning?

The bunker (if its even a bunker) must be where the fireball stalker lives!

BL... Its like the more eyewitness accounts of BL happening, the more you think its 'fact' of what happened. Lightening likely struck my state 5,000,000,000 times last year, does that mean it was the cause for my neighbors house burning down?.... Nope.

The mansi.... Great, lets rely on what one of the suspects say. (eyes roll).

All of this is conjecture... Not evidence.
Anna Yordanova 16-08-2017 17:16 (GMT)
I agree with Dena that the hikers have been attacked.Very interesting fact in my opinion is that the bunker found in Ural mountain is only 10 km South from the tent,exactly where the entrance was.That`s why they didn`t run towards the storage house,because the attackers were coming from this direction.If a BL killed 9 people why all of the others who have reported seeing this spheres were not killed?Why the ball lightning decided to kill Dyatlov and company?
Dena 16-08-2017 17:01 (GMT)

I used a nursing method – follow the symptoms, complaints, all evidence in an effort to determine what happened to these skiers. I believe these hikers were being stalked and they were aware of that. They pitched tent on the open snow to observe the forest through slits in the tent. They did not want to give up their excursion and return. They reckoned this was their last night in the area and they would lose the stalker on Mt. Otorten. Sheer terror caused these people to leap through their tent in sub-zero weather. A sudden attack caused them to run for their lives. Aware that their combined muscle and body weight could not overcome this attacker, they fled the tent without skis or clothing. The Mansi people told of a large confrontational animal species indigenous to that area of the Urals that they feared. We do not know all species of life on earth or in the sea. We share the earth with many species – confrontational and non-confrontational. Toxic waste in waterways could source mutation. The hikers suffered brutal, life-threatening injuries at the hands of the attacker, but succumbed to hypothermia before dying of those injuries. Hypothermia preceded death by injury due to the freezing temps. Possibly a female hiker screamed and her tongue was torn out by the attacker. Her mouth is frozen in a silent scream. An autopsy report stated the tongue was ripped from the roots. The men's hands are extended to fight off the attacker. Terror is frozen on their faces. Many people look peaceful in death. This group looks terror-stricken and were obviously fending an attack. They climbed a tree to view the attacker. Their arms were braced against blows - not from infrasound, an avalanche or lights, but from an attacker - an attacker that could tolerate being in freezing temps all night to attack in stages - an attacker with the tracking ability to find them, even buried under deep snow. In order to grasp what happened to these people, we must realize what an unusual, life-threatening event these skiers suddenly faced. Isolated at night - freezing - facing a formidable attacker. I am so sorry for what these hikers endured and for the lives lost that night in 1959.

Nigel Evans 16-08-2017 13:56 (GMT)
Further witness reports :-
As the search for the remaining members of the group dragged on, some members of the rescue team began to witness strange phenomena. Valentin Yakimenko’s diary from March 31: Today, early in the morning, Victor Mesheryakov, who was on watch duty, left the tent and saw a light in the sky, like a round sphere. He woke us all. Partly dressed, we left the tent and, for about 20 minutes, we watched the movement of a sphere or round disk until it disappeared behind Mountain 880. We saw it to the southeast of our tent and it was moving in a northerly direction. Before it disappeared, in the very centre of this round sphere, we saw a kind of star, which gradually grew and then started to descend, having detached from the sphere. This occurrence made us really excited and we felt confident it was somehow related to the deaths of the Dyatlov group. It must be mentioned that on February 17, during the expedition of another group of climbers, something similar was seen. At around 7:30 AM one member of the party on cooking duty called out: ‘Come and look, something weird!’ Vladislav Karelin, who joined the rescue team later, subsequently recalled: I got out of my sleeping bag without my boots, but in my socks, standing only on branches. I saw a big bright spot. It was growing, and in its centre there was a little star, which also began to grow. This whole spot was moving from the northeast to the southwest and was in the process of falling to the Earth. It left a white tracer tail in the sky. This thing left different impressions on us. Atmanaki said he thought the earth would explode when the object struck, he felt as if it was another planet. As for me, I wasn’t really impressed; it was just a falling meteorite. The whole thing took just over a minute.

Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 66-67). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Nigel Evans 16-08-2017 13:33 (GMT)
An excerpt from "Don't Go There" - eye witness testimonies of these lights. Note the line "It began gradually to swell and became a large ball surrounded in mist." and compare it with the Eagle photo - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Zolotaryov-camera-08.jpg and it's blowup - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Zolotaryov-camera-09.jpg .

It was after this report that Ivanov started considering the ‘overwhelming force’, and in his opinion, it came from above. Some parts of the criminal case files are devoted to a phenomenon dubbed the ‘fireballs in the sky’. For some reason, Lev Ivanov included this data, and later it becomes more obvious why he was interested in these testimonies. The meteorologist, Tokareva, gives the most detailed description of the fireball: To the Director of the Ivdel Police Department 15.03.59: At 6:50 local time a comet was seen in the sky. The tail was similar to that of dense cirrus clouds. Then the star became free from the tail, became brighter, and flew away. It began gradually to swell and became a large ball surrounded in mist. Inside this ball a star began to burn, from which, first, a crescent was formed, and then an entire ball, but not as bright. The large ball began to fade and became like a blur. It disappeared at 7:05. The star moved from the south to the northeast. Atmanaki: On the 7th of February, Vladimir Shevkunov and I got up at 6 AM to cook breakfast for the rest of the rescue group. It was grey and I saw a kind of milk white spot, approximately five or six times the diameter of the moon, consisting of five or six concentric circles. It reminded me of a kind of lunar halo. I told my colleague that the moon looked weird, and he replied: ‘That’s not the moon,’ and ‘It’s supposed to be in a different part of the sky.’ At that moment, in the very centre of the white spot, a star sparkled, and then the star began to grow and move fast in a westerly direction. In several seconds, it grew to the size of the moon and then it broke out of the cloud and appeared as a huge fiery white disk about the size of two moons. And it was still surrounded by the pale white rings. Staying the same size, the sphere began to fade until it became the same as the whole aureola, and then the whole thing just dissolved in the sky. The whole thing took no more than about one-and-a-half minutes and was really strange. I got the impression it was some kind of cosmic body falling down, but then when it was growing the thought came to my mind that our earth was about to collide with another planet and maybe be destroyed. During all this time we were standing as if we were hypnotised watching all this. I spoke to many people about it, those who had also seen it, and people who were in their houses say the light was so bright that it woke them. The file contains an excerpt from the local newspaper with a story, which was indeed strange, as in the Soviet era everything was strictly secular and could be explained by science. On February 7, 1959 the Tagil Worker reported: Yesterday at 6:55 AM local time, to the south-east, at an angle of twenty degrees above the horizon, a bright globe appeared, about moon sized. Around 7 AM, inside of this globe, there was some sort of explosion and a very bright core of this globe became visible, which started to glow more intensely, and around it appeared a cloud. Then the cloud dissolved in the whole eastern part of the sky. Soon after this a second explosion took place, and it resembled the crescent of the moon, gradually the cloud was glowing and in the centre of it remained the bright spot. – A. Kissel, Deputy Head of Vysokogorny Colliery. A radio message was sent by the search team from the rescue group on March 31, 4:00 AM: In the southeast direction the soldier on duty, Misherakov, noticed a large fiery ring, which was moving away from us for about 20 minutes, and then it disappeared behind Mount 880. Before it vanished below the horizon, from the centre of the ring a star appeared, and this star grew to about the size of the moon and then detached from the ring and began to fall. All personnel that were awake observed this strange phenomenon. Please, we ask you to explain this to us, and how safe should we feel, because it made a pretty alarming impression. – Avenbourg, Sogrin and Potapov

Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 100-103). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Nigel Evans 16-08-2017 09:48 (GMT)
@Anna - forgot to mention - SZ's photos (if genuine) make it 5 events...
Nigel Evans 16-08-2017 07:51 (GMT)
@Anna - it's plausible it was left in previous military excursions or by hunters or as Loose-Cannon said.
It's interesting how people hang onto a theory no matter how little evidence.
For the BL theory there are three official sightings in that region in the spring of 1959 plus an unofficial claim of rollers passing the investigators tent. So lets say four and this is in a sparsely inhabited region. One of the reports talks of explosions. Plus we have the mansi's experience longer term that includes fatalities. So we have eye witness accounts of all of the required behaviour for the DPI BL theory both at that time and in the past.
But no a scrap of clothing was found that YY didn't recognise, like he didn't recognise SZ's camera and this is pounced on as the basis for a murder theory.

Ivanov was an experienced police investigator and his finding is on record....
KMM 16-08-2017 01:24 (GMT)
does anyone know if the deer hunter they crossed paths with ever identified and questioned ?
Anna Yordanova 15-08-2017 23:31 (GMT)
@Loose Cannon.I am also surprised that he was able to remember what they`ve been wearing and to identify their belongings,but we never know.I am only saying what I have read and even Yuri was convinced that the military has something to do with this tragedy.
Anna Yordanova 15-08-2017 22:23 (GMT)
The bunker was found only 10 km away from the place where the bodies were found.That means that this might have been a military testing area after all.
Anna Yordanova 15-08-2017 22:19 (GMT)
I just found thisТаинственное сооружение, связанное с гибелью туристов, найдено на перевале Дятлова
6:41 14 Августа 2017 30259
4333
В Избранное
https://riafan.ru/p/915451 Скопировать
Таинственное сооружение, связанное с гибелью туристов, найдено на перевале Дятлова .
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 21:59 (GMT)
Are you really surprised Yuri couldn't identify ONE article of clothing? These NINE people were wearing 4 to 6 layers each not including whatever else they had in their packs. I didn't know Yuri was the designated clothing hall monitor tasked with overseeing who wears what.

This wasn't a military testing area... The closest was a rocket site roughly 100 kilometers away and they were launched down a known range headed in the opposite direction.
Anna Yordanova 15-08-2017 21:47 (GMT)
@Nigel.You are right that lots of people have been messing around,but Yudin was called to recognize the belongings shortly after the tent was discovered and recalls that the piece of clothing was a military one.I read this in a Russian site.
Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 21:35 (GMT)
@Anna - Svetlana Oss has handled the report and notes that it's been restitched, but then Ivanov has told us that material was removed that supported the fireball theory.

Ball lightning might not that rare at the DP... A recent expedition noted a light that lasted 4.5 hours.

There was a rescue team, a police team and a KGB team there for several months who knows what got left behind or lost.
Anna Yordanova 15-08-2017 20:56 (GMT)
Nigel ,from what i have read I know that the case was closed due to evidence and reopened in the 90s(don`t know the exact year),but lots of the information in the file was missing.And also the military and another group of hikers have reported that they have seen strange orange globes in the area where Dyatlov and the rest died.Considering the fact that the ball lightning is such a rare phenomenon no one can convince me that these orange spheres seen in the sky at that time are exactly ball lightnings.I think that they were killed and this is my opinion.What if the military reached the tent before the rescuers?The search started at February 20 which means the search started about a week after Dyatlov failed to call in Svredlovsk.For that time the military or whoever were the killers had plenty of time to go to the crime scene.Whose are the piece of clothing and he pair of glasses that were found in the tent?Yuri Yudin did say that they did not belong to any of the nine hikers.
Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 20:01 (GMT)
@Anna who says it was a secret? There was an investigation with a published report....
Anna Yordanova 15-08-2017 19:43 (GMT)
We all have our own ideas what exactly happened,but the fact that very experienced and well educated people died and there are no survivors means only one thing to me-someone wanted these poor young people dead and this wasn`t the ball lightning.Yuri Yudin in an interview shortly before his dead recalls how the authorities were more concerned why the hikers were in the area,not how they died.If the death of these students was because of a natural event (like a ball lightning)why the case was a secret for so many years?
Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 19:43 (GMT)
Dude why is that?
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 19:01 (GMT)
Welp... I was going to help you strengthen your fireball theory, but your crapping in your own kiddy pool. :/
Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 18:41 (GMT)
Dude... You cannot have it both ways bro. Your going to have to pick one. You claim ball lightning threw people from trees and HAD to have caused the burned leg because (how you read it) was SUCH a nasty deep 'charred' wound... Talked about electrocution burn etc.....
Yep

THEN... You also claimed the very SAME 'single' explosion collapsed the den killing 4 after having dug the darn thing for how many hours?
Yep

The salvaged clothing PROVES (in your theory) that the two parties dies at separate times... Likely hours apart judging by how long it would take to dig a den by hand.
Yep but could just be 15 minutes apart.

Then... You so claimed the other tourist party said TWO explosions.
Not necessarily the same evening. Maybe in the same week. The point being that these lights are observed to explode by eye witnesses in the same region in the same week.

So which is it.... Way I see it your theory can only be one of the following.

1. One explosion at treeline and the den wasn't even dug yet....
2. One explosion over the den causing the collapse and the cedar2 died earlier from non fire-ball reasons.
3. TWO DIFFERENT fireballs hit the the group HOURS apart from one another in two different locations
Possible.
4. THE SAME fireball attacked the group once, went away, then came back to attack them again the second time collapsing the den.
Possible.
5. One explosion with the cedar2 dying before the ravine 4?

This isn't rocket science and you can't claim the fireball slammed two at treeline, others salvage clothing, then went back in freaking time to be in the den when the fireball happened.
As science doesn't undestand ball lightning it is fair to say it is rocket science.... Happy
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 16:42 (GMT)
Dude... You cannot have it both ways bro. Your going to have to pick one. You claim ball lightning threw people from trees and HAD to have caused the burned leg because (how you read it) was SUCH a nasty deep 'charred' wound... Talked about electrocution burn etc.....

THEN... You also claimed the very SAME 'single' explosion collapsed the den killing 4 after having dug the darn thing for how many hours?

The salvaged clothing PROVES (in your theory) that the two parties dies at separate times... Likely hours apart judging by how long it would take to dig a den by hand.

Then... You so claimed the other tourist party said TWO explosions.

So which is it.... Way I see it your theory can only be one of the following.

1. One explosion at treeline and the den wasn't even dug yet....
2. One explosion over the den causing the collapse and the cedar2 died earlier from non fire-ball reasons.
3. TWO DIFFERENT fireballs hit the the group HOURS apart from one another in two different locations
4. THE SAME fireball attacked the group once, went away, then came back to attack them again the second time collapsing the den.

This isn't rocket science and you can't claim the fireball slammed two at treeline, others salvage clothing, then went back in freaking time to be in the den when the fireball happened.
Anna Yordanova 15-08-2017 16:10 (GMT)
I found this article and seems quiet interesting.There is the link:
The 72-year-old hunter told me who and for what killed 57 years ago the Dyatlov group

Источник: https://vmirechudes.com/72-letnij-oxotnik-rasskazal-kto-i-za-chto-57-let-nazad-ubil-gruppu-dyatlova/ .
Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 15:54 (GMT)
Easy the cedar two died quickly and the ravine four rescuers took some clothing.
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 15:21 (GMT)
Your forgetting one hard fact piece of evidence..... Articles of clothing from the cedar2 were salvaged by the den4. Its impossible for the ball to doomed both parties in separate locations at the same time given this fact....

I have your solution if you wanna hear it.
Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 14:34 (GMT)
Great.. dug in from the side. I can buy that, but how much snow would it take to crush rib cages, and bash in a skull? A couple of cubic metres of compact snow would be say 1.5 tonnes.... The theory is that a rectangular piece of the roof fell across two chest and one head lying in between.

Wouldn't blonde chicky have been frozen solid where she died? Look at how her body is slumped over that rock with arms UP over the rock......
It was the spring thaw? Look at the force of the water in the photo of her http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Lyudmila-Dubinina-post-mortem-1.jpg .

Again.... Pleasease explain how the ball traveled to the group only once and killed the cadar2 and rav4.
Because it exploded overhead with enough force to destabilise the den. YD and YK weren't killed by it but they fell out of the cedar onto the fire. YK subsequently bit the skin off the back of his hand dealing with the pain. So he couldn't have died immediately. Shock from the burn could have done it. The explosion killed the nearby birds. Might have burnt the treetops as well. There's an outside chance that YD/YK suffered from electrocution instead of falling into the fire.
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 14:09 (GMT)
Great.. dug in from the side. I can buy that, but how much snow would it take to crush rib cages, and bash in a skull? Wouldn't blonde chicky have been frozen solid where she died? Look at how her body is slumped over that rock with arms UP over the rock......

Again.... Pleasease explain how the ball traveled to the group only once and killed the cadar2 and rav4.
Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 13:52 (GMT)
I'm thinking along these lines - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/denali/extremes/survcave.html But we don't know.
The spring thaw would enlarge the space above the stream and start moving the bodies along.
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 13:36 (GMT)
Please explain how the ball moved towards them only once and did this...

So... A report from hundreds of years earlier is PROOF ball lightning explodes. Interesting.

The rav4 being found just outside​of the den suggests it was a shelf configuration and not very deep. They could walk right out the front. Its simply deep enough to block the wind. A collapse of several meters deep hole does not explain the movement of the bodies from the den, nor the blonde chick being hunched of a boulder on her knees. You say it collapsed and then they were moved after..... Who dug this second massively deep hole with their bare hands to get the out??

Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 13:05 (GMT)
Don't forget that the rav4 had to dig out the den anyway so a good assumption imo is that the same kind of labour could rescue them.
Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 13:00 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon -
Im not talking about the search crew, Im talking about the night this happened. We have no clue how deep the snow was when the den was ORIGINALLY dug, how it was dug, who dug it, and how long it took then to do so.
Correct, but applies to any theory Happy. The bodies were not found in the den but 5-10 metres away. So it follows (in my theory) that they were moved from the den debris to a nearby spot to be attended to which includes redistributing clothing.

Even "if" thats ball lightning in those frames from the camera.... How do you know it actually caused the physical injuries? I noticed you don't have a solution for why the ball lightning chased them down to kill them ..... Twice.
Not twice, only needs to happen once. I don't KNOW it caused these injuries, that's why it's called a theory...... The ski party reported hearing two explosions 50km away after a light had descended below the hills. So you have a reliable eye witness account that these things can explode...

I've posted this before but just for you as you don't like reading the thread - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning#The_Montague This one travels 3 miles over open water to explode by the ship, that main top-mast would probably be in excess of 20 inches in diameter. Quite an explosion.
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 12:40 (GMT)
"How do you know the depth of the snow when/where the den was dug.... - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-the-den-01.jpg What did they dig through several of meters of snow with? - Team of men with shovels."

Im not talking about the search crew, Im talking about the night this happened. We have no clue how deep the snow was when the den was ORIGINALLY dug, how it was dug, who dug it, and how long it took then to do so.

Even "if" thats ball lightning in those frames from the camera.... How do you know it actually caused the physical injuries? I noticed you don't have a solution for why the ball lightning chased them down to kill them ..... Twice.
Nigel Evans 15-08-2017 10:23 (GMT)
@John Wolfe - the map seems to show that they left the flashlight on the brow of the hill, exactly were it would assist a return from up to 1km away.

@Loose-Cannon :-
How do you know the film is in fact.... Intact and not fubared via rotting corps, frozen, and water logged in a creek for months?
I don't but that two frames look exactly like BL is a bit of a coincidence if it's random damage....?

How do you know the depth of the snow when/where the den was dug.... - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-the-den-01.jpg What did they dig through several of meters of snow with? - Team of men with shovels.

Speaking of the leg burn... I dunno what your reading -
This is from the official pathologist report, "There is a burn across the entire surface of the left anticnemion with a size of 31 x 10 cm with parchment density. In the lower third of the left ??? of brown-black colour with charred tissue and the blow out of the cutaneous covering ???? Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
That's all sounding medium rare and crispy crackling to me.

Yes your list is interesting, for the fight theory, it would have to be that ID, RS and ZK did all the punching and YD and YK took all the punches. It's possible of course, but it's also possible that YD/YK fell out of the cedar breaking branches on their way down. It's possible that the bleeding orifices are from radiation. It's possible that nerve damage made them extremely clumsy.
The key point for me is that the injuries are inconclusive. In my theory the returning 3 dug the ravine 4 out of the collapsed den which would have resulted in superficial scratches to the hands and arms. Note :-
ID - "many small scratches of dark red color on the lower third of the right forearm and palm surface"
ZK - "brown-red abrasion on the back of both hands in the area of metacarpal phalangeal and inter-phalangeal joints", N.B. the "inter-phalangeal joints" are the finger joints, so the report is saying that she had ABRASIONS NOT BRUISES between her knuckles and finger tips on both hands.
These aren't combat wounds but are consistent with digging through snow/ice using their bare hands as shovels.
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 05:59 (GMT)
Note... Igor and Rustem have hand injuries stating 'metacarpal phalangeal' as "This is common injury in hand to hand fights. To get a better idea of the injuries just make a fist. This is the part of the hand which you use to hit someone."

Zina has the EXACT SAME injuries.... The explanation of what causes it however is not listed. ALL three.... Hand/hand combat wounds to the hands.
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 05:31 (GMT)
Ok ... Lets take a look at these injuries and I dare ya to say it cannot indicate fighting.

YURI DOROSHENKO

2. ear, nose and lips are covered with blood
3. swollen upper lip with dark red hemorrhage
4. right cheek soft tissue covered with gray foam; gray liquid coming form his open mouth. Most apparent cause is pulmonary edema. (Pulmonary Edema.... Fluid in lungs... Common when starved of oxygen)
7. right armpit has a bruise 2x1.5 cm
8. brown-red bruises with size 4x1 cm, 2.5x1.5 cm, 5x5 cm in the upper third of right forearm
9. swelling and small abrasions in the rear of the right hand soft tissue
10. bruise with bleeding into the underlying soft tissue on the back of the right hand corresponding to the second metacarpal bone
14. on the inner surface of the left forearm there is a surface skin wound covered with dried blood
15. similar bruises in pale red color on the shins of both legs


YURI KRIVONISCHENKO

1. bruises on the forehead 0.3x1.8 cm
2. diffuse bleeding in the right temporal and occipital region due to damage to temporalis muscle
3. bruise around left temporal bone
7. back of the right hand is swollen, fingers are brownish-purple
14. dark red abrasions on left wrist, back of the left hand is swollen
16.three linear skin lesions with straight edges, sharp corners and depth up to 0.3 cm on the inner side of the upper third of the left thigh
17. three cutaneous wounds with sharp corners on the inner side of the upper third of the left hip
18. dark brown abrasion on the front of the right femur and tibia
19. dark brown-red abrasions on the front-inner left thigh


IGOR DYATLOV

1. minor abrasions on the forehead
2. minor abrasions on the upper eyelids
3. brown-red abrasions above the left eyebrow
4. minor abrasions on the left cheek
5. brown-red abrasions on both cheeks
6. dried blood on lips
8. bruised knees without bleeding into the underlying tissues
9. both ankles had brownish red abrasions, size 1x0.5 cm and 3x2.5 cm with hemorrhage into the 10. underlying tissue
10. single incision 4x2 cm in the lower third of the right tibia
11. many small scratches of dark red color on the lower third of the right forearm and palm surface
13. metacarpophalangeal joints on the right hand had brown red bruises. This is common injury in hand to hand fights. To get a better idea of the injuries just make a fist. This is the part of the hand which you use to hit someone.
14. left hand is brown-purple color with brownish-red bruises
15. superficial wounds on the 2nd and 5th finger on the left hand
16. skin wound in the palmar surface of the 2nd 5th finger of left hand

ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA

1. dark red abrasion on the right frontal eminence
2. pale gray area 3x2 cm above the right eyebrow
3. dark red abrasion on the upper eyelids
4. brown red graze on the bridge and tip of the nose
5. numerous abrasions on the left cheekbone
6. bruised skin on the right side of the face
7. brown-red abrasion on the back of both hands in the area of metacarpal phalangeal and inter-phalangeal joints
8. wound with jagged edges and missing skin on the back of the right hand at the base of the third finger
10. a long bright red bruise 29x6 cm in the lumbar region on the right side of the torso. The bruise looks like left from a baton


RUSTEM SLOBODIN

1. hemorrhages in the temporalis muscles
2. minor brownish red abrasions on the forehead
3. two scratches are 1.5 cm long at the distance of 0.3 cm between them
4. brownish red bruise on the upper eyelid of the right eye with hemorrhage into the underlying tissues
5. traces of blood discharge from the nose
6. swelling and a lot of small abrasions on both sides of the face
7. bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands. Similar bruises are common in hand to hand combat
8. brown cherry bruises on the medial aspect of the left arm and left palm
9. swollen lips
10. bruises on the left tibia in dimensions at 2.5x1.5 cm (not shown on diagram)
11. epidermis is torn from the right forearm (not shown on diagram)
12. fracture of the frontal bone 6x0.1 cm located 1.5 cm from the sagittal suture (showing on separate skull trauma diagram without numbers)
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 04:58 (GMT)
Speaking of the leg burn... I dunno what your reading, but this is what this site states.

"20. edema on the left leg and foot, burn in the area the size of 31x10 cm on the entire outer surface of the leg"

Thats 12 by 4 inches.... And nothing is said about the level of severity. Not to mention he was found next to...... a fire!
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 04:49 (GMT)
I know the ball didn't come down the mountain just once.... If Yuri and Yuri died, then clothing removed (fact), and the one yuri had this severe burn caused by the ball... Then the den 4 were NOT killed at the same time.... Not even close because the 'den' was hand dug through meters of snow prior to the balls return. Two times said ball would have had to chase them down.
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 04:41 (GMT)
If the ball chased after them down the hill and killed a few.... It must have left the treeline at some point in order for the yuri/yuri group to have their clothing salvaged. Where did it go? Must have went BACK to the tent because if it didn't.... Why didn't the remaining victims go to the tent where their gear/clothing was located?. So the ball goes down the hill and kills, goes BACK up the mountain to tent, the comes BACK down the mountain HOURS later to where the the den group had just HAND DUG a den through several meters of snow?
Loose-Cannon 15-08-2017 04:34 (GMT)
How do you know the film is in fact.... Intact and not fubared via rotting corps, frozen, and water logged in a creek for months?

How do you know the depth of the snow when/where the den was dug.... What did they dig through several of meters of snow with?
John Wolfe 14-08-2017 23:03 (GMT)
Nigel, yes the tent had everything -- including the ball lightning -- which is why they left. The idea of the flashlight as a beacon sounds likely but only if they expected to go only a short distance and would not have been visible over a km away - over the curvature of the hill. Also the tent had something which had attracted the ball lightning in the first place. (metal stove?)
John Wolfe 14-08-2017 22:54 (GMT)
see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MZiZrzTYIo for the area in the daytime on a nice day -- still lots of wind -- see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOVmADGlX2Y&t=552s for (part one of 5) to see that there would lots of exposed/jagged rocks to trip over and fall against and etc. -- the series is a good view of the area and is marked with a tent and flags showing where bodies were and evidence was. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFgB2MMEO0s to view the ravine area in the spring, with no snow you can see that the ravine is not a deep ravine -- just a small stream. ALSO NOTE: in the winter videos there are many small animal tracks - animals that would be glad to eat the easier bits of hand or face.
Nigel Evans 14-08-2017 22:44 (GMT)
"When the group was chased out of their tent they went down the slope to forest, not to the storage site where they had left provisions before climbing Kholat Syakhl. 19 items (total weight of 55 kg) among them cereals, sugar, wood, Krivonischenko's mandolin, pair of skis used to mark the location, 2 pair of shoes (ski and warm), an ice pick, a cap, mask and a shirt. The shed seemed undisturbed."

versus

"On the bottom of the tent 9 backpacks were discovered with various personal items, jackets, rain coats, 9 pairs of shoes. There were also found men's pants, and three pairs of boots, warm fur coats, socks, hat, ski caps, utensils, buckets, stove, ax, saw, blankets, food: biscuits in two bags, condensed milk, sugar, concentrates, notebooks, itinerary and many other small items and documents, camera and accessories to a camera."
Nigel Evans 14-08-2017 22:41 (GMT)
@John Wolfe - from memory the labaz only had one spare pair of boots. There was nothing there for six of the group. They had to get back to the tent and get into the clothing they had left there. Everything they did that night was to move to a perceived place of safety and monitor the tent.
They didn't leave the flashlight at the tent but several hundred metres down the slope - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-flashlight.jpg in my theory this has been left as a beacon. Also in my theory the BL would have illuminated the path and crucially the top half of the cedar. This assumes that any whiteout had subsided of course.

Nigel Evans 14-08-2017 22:24 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - YK's leg burn was too serious for him to be concious when it happened, a massive burn 30 cm long deep into the underlying tissue. Any worse and it could be served medium rare. But given he bit the back of his hand off and the skin was found in his mouth it seems he was concious after receiving the burn and trying to manage extreme pain.

Both YD and YK's injuries could have been as a result of electrocution btw... But the simpler (occam's razor) explanation is falling out of tree and being unconcious for long enough.

Only the returning three show this damage on both hand and face, and the pathologist describes most of the facial damage as abrasions or scratches. N.B. ball lightning has been blamed for similar injuries in India. The hand injuries are more difficult to explain but it seems fair to say that if they did punch other people it wasn't anyone else in the group... Except ZK perhaps whose cut on the top of her hand suggests it was cut on someone elses teeth or something else. The facial injuries don't fit the profile of a fight, no black eyes or nose/cheek bruises. So it follows if the faces don't have bruises from fists then the fist bruises must have been gained some other way. Maybe the nerve damage makes you behave as if extremely drunk. ID was found face up in a "boxer" pose which could be relevant.
John Wolfe 14-08-2017 22:20 (GMT)
Hi Nigel, um ..... the "Occam's Razor" suggestion is a good one but was not really directed ay your comments. However, they did cache both clothes and a few pieces of footwear at a small hut just before going up to their last tent location -- their diary specifically notes that fact, as they were lightening the load they were carrying. Also, I have spent two years living in a very similar climate -- including all winter in a small / windy ! / and unheated hut -- no fun many days from zero to -40 F . This was done about 15 years ago in Wyoming, USA. I am convinced that they thought they were running toward the cache / hut . Remember two things: 1) they pitched in a very windy storm; 2) it would have been very dark when they ran. nb: evidence includes at least one flashlight dropped at the tent site -- batteries dead but switch in the "on" position -- someone was in such a hurry to get away that they dropped a working flashlight and didn't even take the time to pick it up -- that's an extreme hurry !! a life-or-death hurry he kind that leads you to run downhill when you needed to run UP-hill. and almost the same distance away:
see the map at home page: http://dyatlov-pass.com/
Loose-Cannon 14-08-2017 21:09 (GMT)
When you get close to frostbite, your hands/feet etc are numb. It's easy to burn yourself in an attempted to warm yourself via fire. How does ball lightning explain the hand/hand combat injuries on several of the victims?
Nigel Evans 14-08-2017 16:39 (GMT)
@John Wolfe - hi there.

Apparently each frame of the photos has apparently been marked as from SZ's camera which i presume means they have been individually cut and the order lost. Imo the three heads would be the last shot and is taken from inside the tent with the three heads being the canvas fabric of one of the slits.
Eagle 1 is an excellent shot of the object in the sky with the others demonstrating camera shake (it was very windy). So imo he took most of those shots of the sky outside the tent and then returned inside to find wow! it's just outside the tent. Then they got out of there real fast.

As said many times before imo the trip to the cedar was deliberate, they needed somewhere to shelter from the wind chill that allowed them to observe the BL back at the tent. The cedar seems to be the only satisfactory option. The tent contained their clothing and footwear and was their ONLY hope for survival longer term. The labaz was just a food store with some bits and pieces.

Imo the deaths occured because the BL flew down the slope and exploded near the ravine, the den collapsed crushing the occupants and the two Yuris fell out of the tree and suffered burns whilst concussed and unattended.

One of the theories for these lights are that they are solitons in an microwave field occupying many cubic kilometres of atmosphere, some research at Hessdalen points in this direction. N.B. there is an overlap with this theory and crop circles.

The remaining three died by not understanding the debilitating effect that the same microwave field could have even at at reduced energy
That's why they all expired within 330 metres of each other, they had all suffered from the same debilitating force. Maybe climbing the mountain (back into the field) did it, maybe they had reached an exposure limit and were doomed anyway.

Yes i know Occam's Razor but,
"Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler" - Albert Einstein. Happy

Cheers.
John Wolfe 14-08-2017 15:36 (GMT)
one last post on this: as is usual in nearly all mountaineering accidents, there is usually an identifiable mistake that led to some disaster. I think I know what happened. The hikers - experiencing some very dangerous ball-lightning made a mad dash, without bothering to dress for the cold, to the safety of the cache of extra clothing and equipment -- only they made a fatal error in the dark and the panic. I have studied Russian, winter-time, videos of the area and can see why this could happen: to get to the ravine (false cache) they would only have the wind at their backs and would only have to run downhill -- whereas to go to the true cache they would have to first run UP-hill and into a strong wind. --- sad --- those of you who need to make fantastic explanations of secret Soviet plots or accidental missile tests or space aliens or the mythical yeti, I suggest you do a little reading at the Google page: https://www.google.com/search?site=webhp&source=hp&q=occam%27s+razor+definition&oq=occam%27s+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.2.0l2j0i131k1j0.3354.6347.0.13622.9.8.0.0.0.0.267.1228.0j6j1.7.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.7.1226.0..35i39k1j0i20k1.SIVSGrhXKb8
John Wolfe 14-08-2017 15:09 (GMT)
Hi Nigel -- I am wondering about the sequence stated for the Zolotaryov film. I am also very convinced from about two years of reading text books on lightning and some NASA posts that the Earth is far more electrical than I would expect -- and, as we all know, that electrical energy is very potent. Anyway -- getting back to the question about the order of the film: could this order be backward? The "first" frame shows something (I would say very close ball lightning) which is very close. My feeling on this is that a ball that large and close might have also exploded with near lethal force -- thus ending any photography. I would not expect it to be at the beginning of any film. Since this is a damaged and incomplete film it might be that the order is either reversed or random (if there were only a few frames usable in any way) Also - if those are three heads, could two be wearing hats? They are larger and not as rounded as the one on the left. A blast might have knocked them off. Is there a listing of any clothing items outside but near the tent?
Nigel Evans 12-08-2017 10:23 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - it's not my Koolaid, it's Ivanov's and the Mansi's.
All i'm doing is using the internet to show they were right.
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 22:20 (GMT)
Unfortunately I have read everything you posted today and recently. Apparently your excuse for someone not 100% drinking your Koolaid is they must not have read your post. (roll eyes)

Hey... read my post. Its all there, end of discussion. ROFLMAO
Nigel Evans 11-08-2017 21:02 (GMT)
You're not reading stuff i've posted today or yesterday. What's the point in talking to you?
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 20:46 (GMT)
Or is that Romanian... Either way, I think that is whats needed as a proper debate platform etc without egos getting butthurt you didnt read their post 876 post down from last year.
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 20:41 (GMT)
Again... I am not going to read 1113 posts to find out what your executive decision on any given subject may be, nor will I control-f to search every word you type. Thats ridiculous.

This site is AWESOME for documenting information (whether is fact or fiction) for individuals to read and make their own minds up of whats what, but this comment page is far from being an organized message board. The Russians have it... maybe we need an English version. http://taina.li/
Nigel Evans 11-08-2017 20:27 (GMT)
"You are claiming a definitive fact that these pictures represent the tops of three heads and CAPTURING BALL LIGHNING"

You've gotta read the posts to know what people are saying.... Try a ctrl F with "fabric".
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 20:25 (GMT)
@KMM

"I was just asking because I do not see ANY of the theories so far explaining the DPI"

I have heard it randomly in videos etc, but it has never been a full blown theory that I know of. Basically they spent a whole 3 seconds stating something like "or did some of them live longer". I couldn't tell you where to find it as Im going off memory, but it wasn't enough to amount to anything. More or less and afterthought that was never elaborated upon.
KMM 11-08-2017 20:17 (GMT)
"The vast majority of this tragedy can NOT be considered as fact" = TRUE
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 20:14 (GMT)
"Bit of a pattern here"

Yup, your selective propaganda. If your going to quote me, copy the entire sentence.

"You are claiming a definitive fact that these pictures represent the tops of three heads and CAPTURING BALL LIGHNING"
KMM 11-08-2017 20:11 (GMT)
I was just asking because I do not see ANY of the theories so far explaining the DPI
Nigel Evans 11-08-2017 20:00 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - "You are claiming a definitive fact that these pictures represent the tops of three heads"

Nope you're wrong again. Bit of a pattern here ... Happy
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 19:14 (GMT)
This is exactly the problem. You are claiming a definitive fact that these pictures represent the tops of three heads and capturing ball lightning. Dont get your panties in a wad when I tell you this, but its a FAR reach. Again, its great to have a personal biased theory but unfortunately like all the others, its not the only one. Dont get me wrong... I think ball lightning 'could' have played a roll, but its about as far fetched as any other theory out there and no one spiracy is better then the other. You posted about ball lightning, with a side order of a video about the Hessdalen lights. Sorry If I missed your three "three heads + eagle photos".

"But still the unbelievers continue to post nonsense theories that are easily shot down by the facts"

I believe this to be your issue... The vast majority of this tragety can NOT be considered as fact. You tend to think your theory is 'fact' and everything else is 'fiction'. I am open to the ball lightning idea, but to think it does not have holes with a side order of reaching, is a bit narrow minded.

Your comments and Mikeys, are very indicative of someone that feels they know it all and everyone else's opinion is moot. This thread has literally become an echo chamber of a few individuals feeding their own narrative as if they are the authoritarian whom gets to make the executive decision what happened to these poor ruskies. I didnt come here for your crap, but Ill be your huckleberry if you wish. The choice is yours.
Nigel Evans 11-08-2017 18:46 (GMT)
@KMM - Hi. Well imo one of the big questions is how did most of them survive for say a couple of hours in those conditions and avoid frostbite?

@Loose-Cannon - i posted this yesterday :-

"and then there's the three heads photo - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-01.jpg The ball lightning theory answers all the facts and there are reliable eye witness reports of these lights and explosions during the DPI period.

It's all there. But still the unbelievers continue to post nonsense theories that are easily shot down by the facts.
There are none so blind as those that will not see. (pun intended) "


Note the last line, if you bothered to read what i'm posting you would know the answers to the questions you've just asked.

But to repeat myself....

A recent expedition to the DP observed a light for 4.5 hours. The Hessdalen lights can last for an hour and give off radar signatures (that's microwaves) that last for hours.

So the evidence fits the theory that they fled the tent because one of these lights had parked outside (could also be a loud rattling sound) and it stayed there for one or two hours preventing them from returning. Then it travelled downhill and exploded near the den which collapsed crushing the occupants, dead birds fell out trees as did the two Yuris who were up in the cedar getting bad frostbite. They were concussed and unattended which explains the burns.

There doesn't have to be a lightning storm for these DP lights, if you read the thread you would know that.
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 18:35 (GMT)
@KMM

With some of these guys often talking in cryptic messages with a lingo only understandable to them.. making up secret terms and crap expecting you to read 1103 post to be up to speed on their definitions.... I couldn't tell ya if its been mentioned by the god-squad.

However, I have read here/there of people mentioning the idea some of the victims 'might' have lasted another 12, 24, even 48hrs past the others. I believe the contents of their stomach indicate the time of all their deaths at less then 3hrs of each other. This is if you assume they all ate in the tent together at the same time and this was their lats meals.
KMM 11-08-2017 18:24 (GMT)
any theories on if any of the hikers might of survived the first night or longer ? I have not seen this mentioned
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 18:18 (GMT)
No, its titled "Zolotaryov's camera"... I have read ALL OF THIS SITE AND MORE. Why you are refering to it as "three heads eagle" blabla bork spit, I have no idea. Perhaps referring to it in a language we can all undersatad would be great!

Great... Zolotaryov's camera! Now we are all able to know wtf your talking about being in some kinda cult click. Geez

I see why you fancy the ball lightening idea. So, I guess the idea is they were scared crapless out of the tent after observing ball lightning, and moved to the treeline to get away from it. Whats your take on why they didnt go back to the tent, and why all the bad injuries? Wouldnt said ball lighting last maybe 5min if your extremely lucky... why not return after the episode? And again.... why climb the biggest tree around during a freak lightning storm?
Nigel Evans 11-08-2017 17:35 (GMT)
@Head-Banger - so not only are you not reading the thread but you're not exploring the site.... Jeez.
http://dyatlov-pass.com/controversy#zolotaryovcamera
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 16:22 (GMT)
What photos? Link?
Nigel Evans 11-08-2017 15:06 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - but so what, shouldn't we be discussing the three heads + eagle photos?
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 14:40 (GMT)
"The technician in the crime lab was given a camera with a film inside which he has to develop and give back to the investigators. Old cameras have film in a cartridge, the camera makes a photo by (1) pressing the shutter and then (2) using the film advance lever to draw next blank frame from the cartrige. Some people did (2) right after (1), some did (2) right before the the shot. The technician has no way of knowing if the camera is in position (1) or (2). Rewinding the film is only possible in position (1). The technician can either use the film advance lever which will not work if the camera is in possition (2) or press the shutter which will not work if the camera is in possition (1). Pushing the lever too hard can damage the film. Usually the lab technicians pressed the shutter and if doesn't go off then the film can be rewinded. If it does go off then the film can also be rewinded but the there is one last technological photo which captures whatever is in front at that particular moment - wall, ashtray, table, papers, and a lot of undetifyable objects nearly always out of focus. The shutter of Krivonischenko's camera was cocked, so the notorious photo №33 came to life. Initially this frame was not presented in the investigation as pаrt of the film, and it should have remained that way, because introducing it at a later time inflated even further the monstrous significance that this photo was gaining."
Nigel Evans 11-08-2017 11:55 (GMT)
@Mikey - adding to the list of possibilities, it could be an aerial craft e.g. helicopter through to alien space ship Happy
So you've got a basis for a special forces theory, the helicopter accidentally crushes some of them and then the same team coverup to get out of trouble because they realise these people are well connected, so the state genuinely doesn't know about it. The rest of the group are herded together until they die of exposure to make it look authentic and then placed down the mountain with the fire and den being fabrications. The hot spot is from the exhaust.

Problems with the theory -
the eagle 1 photo doesn't support it.
The theory requires significant effort from the soldiers in arranging things but no sign of military footwear anywhere. But then the rescue group could have contaminated the area.
One of the big anomalies with the DPI is that several of this group apparently die of cold but have little or no signs of frostbite in supposed -25C conditions with bare hands and only socks. The only possibilities would seem to be that they die of something else sooner, somehow it was a warm night or anything containing water molecules (including human bodies) was being artificially warmed... NTB was found with his gloves in the pockets of his unzipped jacket. It seems that they weren't that cold.... unless you were up a cedar and then the windchill reversed that...
Nigel Evans 11-08-2017 10:45 (GMT)
Just re wording :-
It's a statistical impossibility imo that it's random damage/double exposure etc that just happens to look like a shot of a bright light source through wind blown snow behind a piece of fabric.
Nigel Evans 11-08-2017 09:29 (GMT)
@Mikey - well the list of what it could NOT be is rather long yes? Happy

It's a statistical impossibility imo that it's random damage/double exposure etc and looks like a shot of a bright light source through snow behind a piece of fabric.

A photo of a flashlight returning to the tent is a good idea but in my amateur opinion it's too saturated. It's quite a bright light source and the snow in front suggests it's a some distance away which means it's too bright for a flashlight of that era. It's even in the right direction and possibly the right distance for it's position in the photo to be located at the hot spot...

Could be say a solid fuel rocket motor but there's no evidence found by the investigators. Recent expeditions to that area have spoken of hardware dumped somewhere nearby but it's my assumption that the investigation was not a coverup and this dump is subsequent to the dpi. The investigation team stayed there for months and the mountain was closed for three years (could have been further investigations).

Btw lets not forget the Eagle 1 Light (Eagle 2 is a blow up). This is exactly as described by one of the eye witness accounts, as a bright light in the sky surrounded by a mist or fog.

Imo there's only two possibilites for these photos, either they are intelligent forgeries produced for reasons unknown or they are genuine.
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 05:35 (GMT)
It isn't a 'serious discussion board' when any and all possible contributing factors cannot be discussed. Dont like an idea... move along. This is really more of a blog of sorts where you dont even have to join before posting... it just a 1k+ sunning single thread with no organization of posts, etc. If you really wanna get serious about this, you should start a full blown discussion forum..... kind like the one I own and operate here. http://sks-files.com/index.php And by the way, we happened to solve a Communist Chinese State secret as to how they serialize and date their small arms weapons. Not an easy task and could not have happened without may contributors and all angles looked at including surveys.

Pft... call 'me' the troll? I just have a very low tolerance for bull-sheet, and its lookin like we need some tall waders around these parts as its getting DEEP!
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 05:14 (GMT)
Laff... Ergotamine is the main psychoactive product of ergot fungi, its just a fact. Again, never have I stated they purposely ingested contaminated rye bread... only that its a possibility. Because I tell you what... however great tourist you think they may have been, they did some REALLY STUPID crap. I do not believe in big-foot, yeti, or anything of the sort. Do I think they had moldy bread.... no freaking clue. FYI, I am not attacking you, dont be such a snowflake. It only seems to me like your driving a narrative based on your own bias "undisclosed theory" with an authoritarian attitude of 'how we need to sold the mystery'. News flash.... you aint solving jack squat Mikey.

Is it fun to debate possible causes etc... sure. Just dont misrepresent something I toss out there and act as if thats my whole story and Im sticking to it because aliens made me do it.

You know what happened to these people? Whatever frick Mikey says, thats what I think.

Good grief man... "you and off-the-wall theorys are all the same"

Yeti, ball lightening, top secret weapons, special force commandos.... I mention st anthony's fire, and you go full retard.

Still waiting for the official release of the Mikey story. Ill have fun shredding it into 10,000 slices.
Mikey 11-08-2017 04:48 (GMT)
@ Loose-Cannon
And WOW you attacked me for no real reason.

Good name you have. Maybe one day you will become more objective.
Mikey 11-08-2017 04:38 (GMT)
I want the FULL STORY on Ergot Poisoning. I want to know how you come to that conclusion when NOTHING points to that. But, maybe you have a wonderful UFO and Yeti story you will tell us next.

As a SERIOUS discussion board, you have turned around and given an Ergot Poisoning narrative?

Nobody there was doing LSD trips, not poisoned, and the like. I am sorry, but you and off-the-wall theorys are all the same. This could be something like attackers, ball lightning, even just natural causes.

Don't be a troll. People get on to you. Please leave us alone. Oh, and that pic of the guy from behind the tree, that's a Russian Yeti.

Trust me.
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 04:29 (GMT)
Naw man... Just there is an infinite scenarios, theories etc and none of them can be proven nor disproven. There is no real place to begin or end... the very first course of events are shrouded in mystery and highly debated. If you cannot know for certain why they left the tent, anything beyond that point is conjecture. If someone says "they didn't cut their way out of the tent", and someone else says "prove it", then I say "prove to me the did". You see the dilemma?
Mikey 11-08-2017 04:24 (GMT)
Ergot poisoning? Okay, I'll give you that. Elaborate. Tell us the story. I'll listen.
Mikey 11-08-2017 04:12 (GMT)
@ Loose-Cannon

Naw, I'll be happy to leave. I don't mind. I just thought maybe you and others would enjoy a semblance and direction on how we tackle this.

If we place things into certain areas of thought, maybe we can get somewhere and build off others ideas.

I'm very sorry I may have upset you. We all have different ideas. I just think if we go one by one, we can agree on a conclusion.

All is good. My opinion means nothing. Have at it.
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 04:07 (GMT)
Mold and rye bread... look it up.
Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 03:49 (GMT)
Oh thank god... I thought Mikey would never return to tell us his 'air tight' theory and tell us what the facts are and what to discuss.
Mikey 11-08-2017 03:42 (GMT)
There is some talk of them doing LSD trips, being drunk, even the reindeer piss that the Mansi enjoyed.

I think this is the farthest from the truth.

These people were SERIOUS. Beforehand, there was an incident, but no big deal. Everybody had specialized jobs where each would be in question.

In the Soviet Union, back then, you don't play games with your future. If you did, you would be shunned.

It's not like you and I who take a few nips of Jack Daniels to warm up a bit. We ALL have. The alcohol in the tent was pretty much untouched.

Like I said, most of us would drink up, but they really didn't touch it. They knew it would be a burden, so, on a ski slope ready to climb a mountain, most would not even touch it.

I wouldn't.

Until all is done and we survived afterward.

Not even a taste.

More to think about.
Mikey 11-08-2017 03:08 (GMT)
@Nigel

This pic with the three heads and the overwhelming light...

While I don't doubt it's authenticy, have we gone through ideas of anything it COULD NOT be? We do know that some pics were compromised in development. Some that the party took were "double" images, one shot taken over another. A tree over top of a snowy street where in the middle of the pic, a closeup tree is clear but also superimposed over a street scene.

Some pics were that way, as you know. The pic in question is highly degraded, but enough to prove something there. Let's think about some different ideas. If we can prove that NOTHING ELSE is there, but the obvious, it must be.

Let us see if we can dispel it first. What else could it be? Maybe someone with a flashlight entering the tent?

Remember, dispel it FIRST, then we can move on to the next ideal.

This does not mean you are wrong, but let's try some ideas before making it complete lore.

I think you are right, on that pic, but I want to find ANY plausible idea before we move forward.

It may NOT be what we think.

Thanks for listening.
Mikey 11-08-2017 02:29 (GMT)
Hey, look. Lots of theories going on. I have my own but I am NOT going to place them on everyone UNLESS I know true, hard facts. I don't mind others telling me that I am "forcing" others to believe a story I find almost "airtight."

That's NOT a huge deal to me.

I will say, find FACTS. Many web-sites have lots of dis-information.

Case in point, The door to the tent was almost DIRECTLY toward the storage area. This leaves the idea of where the tent was situated. Some sites tell us WRONG information as to where the cuts were made. Some tell us that the cuts in the tent were UPHILL versus DOWNHILL.

You see?

Half of the people reporting this are WRONG. And people believe it. Obvious is obvious, the cuts were DOWNHILL.

Igor was the guy in charge. He decided the slope. Why? There was no real chance of avalanche, the slope would not afford that. So why? He may have decided that as no problems, it may be a good idea to pitch there to give the party a new idea and try something new, for experience.

I may even decide that.

As we see the pics of them digging in, to make a place for the tent, sure, it looks rough, snowstorm, wind everywhere, but that slope is deceiving. It is NOT as it seems...

Winds pick up, then go away and calm. All pics you see are NOT EXACT. There are many times that things are calm without what "looks" like a snowstorm. This is the way of this particular slope. Winds shift, and sometimes no wind at all.

(read stories about this area)

Semyon was the MOST experienced there. Igor was the party leader. Semyon may have tried to take over the party, but I doubt it. Maybe later, but we do know Lyuda gravitated toward the older people.

We also know that something happened at the tent. One person we know MAY have been hurt there. Slobodin. His injuries (cracked skull) and cold may have allowed him to get down the hill. Maybe even get to the cedar. If so, he went back to the tent. Maybe he never made it to the cedar and he decided to get back to the tent. This is up for negotiation. His injuries were bad. I will say, with cold, he may have been okay enough to still function, for a bit of time. Obviously, he did not die quickly, he was warm enough to leave an ice ideal where he was found.

Zina and Igor were in the same ideal. Going toward the tent. Zina got hit. HARD. The bruise shows she got hit by something across her side. Did this show she died by her injuries? I think not. We ALL live with such bruises. She got the farthest to the tent, but never made it.

Igor was somewhat of an anomaly. If he made it to the cedar (which I think they all did leave out Slobodin) yes. There may been a fight, I doubt that.. Between the party? No. I think not. These people, in a situation they were in, would NOT have fought amongst each other. Not fighting like punches. There was no reason. Some say Igor and Semyon were at odds with Zina, but why deal with that? That wasn't a big deal, especially at this time. And I don't think it ever happened.

So, we know the three up the hill, as much as we can say. The two at the cedar were left behind, being the fire to warm them, IF they keep the fire burning. Problem is that at those temps, no small fire is going to warm them. None.

Doom is doom.

So now you have FIVE of the party dead, as we see it. Each, except for Slobodin had relatively "NON LETHAL" injuries, as far as we know.

Correct?

So, I ask everyone here, let's get on this.

A good start. Let's NOT focus on the idea on what made them leave the tent, let's focus on the injuries of these five people to start.

We get to the ravine later.

Let's get some ideas going.



Loose-Cannon 11-08-2017 01:07 (GMT)
An interesting modern film from the tent viewpoint. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuMKfjMAlzs
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 23:54 (GMT)
Chunks of sod shifting next to a creek... omg ITS CUT OUT WITH LASER PRECISION! ROFLMFAO

Interesting how non of these 'investigators' were never harmed or otherwise had their skulls smashed in from it.
Mike Smith 10-08-2017 21:25 (GMT)
@Nigel I'm more apt to go Hessdalen lights angle. Admittedly, I'm only 20 minutes into it, but atmospheric ionization makes sense for that latitude, Dyatlov Pass is at the same. latitude as Anchorage Alaska if my math is right, that elevation is ripe for atmospheric lights in form of the famous Aurora. There's probably a distinction between Auroras and Hessdalen lights I'll read about. From personal experience, Auroras can change rom a spectrum of colors, though I think green is most common. For the picture I've found, Hessdalen lights look to have an amber,(Sodium), tint.
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 21:13 (GMT)
@Mike - try - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKlwlYiXuic
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 21:03 (GMT)
@Mike - yes that's why i said the DP and Hessdalen lights were different....
Mike Smith 10-08-2017 20:55 (GMT)
@Nigel. Ok, I'll recon DP and Hessdalen lights, but as we understand the phenomenal called "Ball Lightning" mentioned in the paper, it dosn't fit our situation, plus the authors state it is duration is 1-5 seconds.
Anna Yordanova 10-08-2017 20:50 (GMT)
Yes Nigel.It disappeared into the socket,making a popping sound.It moved in a straight horizontal line.
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 20:46 (GMT)
@Anna - interesting it disappeared into the socket.

@Mike - "google "hessdalen youtube"
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 20:38 (GMT)
@Mike - yes that's why i said the DP and Hessdalen lights were different....
This is getting surreal..
Anna Yordanova 10-08-2017 20:31 (GMT)
I have seen a ball lightning.Believe me or not.I was with my mother and there was a storm.All of a sudden a bluish,round ball;the size of an orange entered the room,moved across horizontally and popped into the socket.I was 6 years old.I never saw a ball lightning again.
Mike Smith 10-08-2017 20:12 (GMT)
@Nigel The paper linked does not describe our situation. We do not have medium to heavy rain fall. We do not have a thunder storm. We do not have a light wind. We are not on or next to a large body of water. Maybe our two rivers count. Maybe there is a scientific paper that supports ball lightning in the Ural Mountains in the winter time, but this isn't it.

This paper stipulates that ball lightening exists, this is a theory of the physics behind ball lightning, and states that it should be able to be reproduced in a laboratory. The condition they give does not describe the night at our campsite on Feb 1st 1959.
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 19:54 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon - "Then how do we get cracked and crushed skulls and rib cages?" Are you reading anything i've written recently?
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 19:45 (GMT)
Your link is no good.....
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 19:44 (GMT)
Ok.. lets entertain the lightning idea.

I moves along the ground and hits the tent. Wouldn't ALL 9 be zapped in one form or fashion? Ok, some got out before it hit... Then how do we get cracked and crushed skulls and rib cages? And wtf would you wanna be near the biggest tree around yet alone climb the damn thing?
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 19:40 (GMT)
Welp, to your credit... I actually found some video etc having ball lightning follow along the ground. I still find it highly unlikely.
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 19:40 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - something tells me you haven't read this thread....

1. hot spot - http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm. 2. raised footprints - "The snow is compressed with the weight or the individual and days/weeks of wind blow away the rest". Yes if it's 0C, not if it's at -25C.
3. Frostbite - this says it all imo - http://www.candac.ca/candac/Outreach/Teacher_Resources_Index/tri/31.pdf 4. It's a tough point to argue but afaik the team were surprised by the density of the snow.
5. Missing from the previous post was that the snow covering the tent was so hard that they damaged the tent chipping it off.
Lightning storm - see reply to Mike.
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 19:19 (GMT)

"1. hot spot"
Where is this 'hotspot'? Where is the documentation, pictures, dimensions, location etc? If this is conjecture based on one account of a rescue worker... How much faith to you have on this account? I would say when in doubt, throw it out.

"2. raised footprints last nearly four weeks in high winds"
Really? I seen this myself... The snow is compressed with the weight or the individual and days/weeks of wind blow away the rest. This is NOT imho evidence of ball lightning.

3. virtually no frostbite on most of the individuals even though they were collecting firewood and building dens in their socks and bare hands.
Judging by the looks of the corps, I would say nearly all of them show signs of frost bite or at least early stages there of.... The tissue doesn't have to be black and or brittle.

4. when they found the ravine four with avalanche probes it took a team of men a full day with shovels to dig down 4 metres because the snow was so hard and compacted. This is not typical of siberian wind drift (afaik).
They were is the darn ditch for MONTHS after the event. Your literally talking about the majority of WINTER snow in freaking Siberia for petes sake. They have snow still melting in summer!!

Further more... From what I have researched, ball lightning typically takes place fairly high off the ground with only a regular bolt connecting to the ground. I would also have to say that there were other tourists within miles and you would thing some crazy freak thunder and explosions with huge light shows fallowing them around the mountain and woods would have been notices by the other tourists. It would have been obvious and documented out the ass by all involved.

But my main question regarding ball lightning is... WHO THE FRICK CLIMBS THE TALLEST TREE IN THE AREA IN A LIGHTNING STORM?
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 19:00 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - the eyewitness reports at that time - ski party, colliery manager, investigation team and mansi beliefs clearly indicate it's not a rare event at that mountain. The frequency of these reports are part of the case for the theory.

As said before there seem to be different classifiactions, you're talking about the same as Wu - https://www.nature.com/articles/srep28263. N.B. this type typically forms in lightnng storms but not always.

The DP lights seem to be a more aggressive form of the Hessdalen lights which are a persistent aerial discharge (can last for hours). They're probably caused by complex electro magnetic topologies in the atmosphere but a full explanation is for the science of the future.
Mike Smith 10-08-2017 18:31 (GMT)
@Nigel what I'm reading about this ball lightning is there needs to be a lightning storm in the area to act as a catalyst for the plasma. Was there a lightning storm reported on Feb 1? I read where there was a cold front expected that night or the morning of the 2nd.
Mike Smith 10-08-2017 18:04 (GMT)
@Nigel. If I'm in the camp of unbelievers its because ball lightning is such a rare event, and your proposing it as a cure all to everything under the sun including following our happy campers down the mountain and into the woods like a sentient predator. I said in the beginning, I'm apt to believe down to earth theories over those of the fantastical. Sorry, but I'm catagorizing ball lightning under the fantastical for now and it's way down on my list based on probability.

With the incompleteness of the forensics, many theories are viable including ball lightning.

If They were to recast X-Files, I think I would be cast more as Skinner than Mulder. No disrespect, just can't go there with you.
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 17:17 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - by the postulated cause of ball lightning (electro magnetic radiation in the microwave region of the spectrum) warming the snow closer to it's melt point. This had the consequence of weakening the structural integrity of roof of the den and substantially consolidating it (making it more heavy). There are other indications of this warming :-
1. hot spot
2. raised footprints last nearly four weeks in high winds
3. virtually no frostbite on most of the individuals even though they were collecting firewood and building dens in their socks and bare hands.
4. when they found the ravine four with avalanche probes it took a team of men a full day with shovels to dig down 4 metres because the snow was so hard and compacted. This is not typical of siberian wind drift (afaik).

Then the ball lightning explodes nearby triggering the collapse of the den. Birds in nearby trees drop dead, treetops get singed and and YD and YK fall out of the cedar.

The bruising can be explained by the microwaves numbing limbs and causing repeated falls. That's how the returning three all give up within 330 metres, their limbs just wouldn't work properly as they climbed back up into a field of increasing intensity.

Good post from Lighting on this :-
"Lightning 29-05-2017 13:16 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans- microwaves can actually cause "debiitating force". "Occurring at 0.1 J/cm^2, nerve damage can lead to a numbness in the limbs. The microwave reaches 1 J/cm^2 for ball formation."

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep28263" About ball lightning caused by microwaves, for those that don't know who Pyotr Kapitsa was, he was one of the most senior physicists in Russia, writing to Stalin to overrule Beria's interference of the atomic bomb development.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning :-

"Microwave cavity hypothesis

Pyotr Kapitsa proposed that ball lightning is a glow discharge driven by microwave radiation that is guided to the ball along lines of ionized air from lightning clouds where it is produced. The ball serves as a resonant microwave cavity, automatically adjusting its radius to the wavelength of the microwave radiation so that resonance is maintained.[67][68]"

Personally i like the Soliton theory best.

and then there's the three heads photo - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-01.jpg The ball lightning theory answers all the facts and there are reliable eye witness reports of these lights and explosions during the DPI period.

It's all there. But still the unbelievers continue to post nonsense theories that are easily shot down by the facts.
There are none so blind as those that will not see. (pun intended) Happy
Bette 10-08-2017 17:04 (GMT)
Hi everybody,

It’s great to find so many Dyatylov aficionados on here. I have an idea about what happened. Here are the first three building blocks of my theory. Please let me know where I go wrong.

1] A fire log
A log was found near the tent (eyewitness Maslennikov). This suggests to me that they planned to spend the night on the mountain. Bringing a fire log with you when you expect to set up camp in a wooded area (on the other side of the pass) doesn’t make much sense in the best of circumstances. In this case they even ditched all their surplus weight at the labaz that morning. They obviously didn’t think of the log as something they could do without. They had to bring their own firewood if they were going to camp on the bare slopes of Kholat Syakhi.

2] The stove
The firewood wasn’t meant to be used in the stove. They never assembled the stove. And there is a perfectly good reason for this: There weren’t any trees on the bare slopes of Kholat Syakhi.
Dyatylov’s stove didn’t look like an ordinary stove (as in the potbelly kind). It was more like an exhaust pipe hanging under the ridge of the tent, with a canister on one end (the actual “stove”) and the “chimney” (outside the tent) on the other. There’s an approx. drawing of it in the tent-section on here. Just imagine going to sleep with this burning hot contraption overhead. That takes a lot of bravery, or stupidity, or both. Regardless of modern day safety instructions, the hikers knew they had to fasten their exhaust pipe to some solid structure. In loose photos 4 and 5 you can see the guy ropes extending from the middle of the tent (i.e. the pipe) and going upwards to the trees. Without trees they didn’t have any fastening points for their stove. On the bare slopes of Kholat Syakhi it was unusable.

3] A snow shelter
It seems that the hikers decided on a different method to stay warm. A snow shelter. In loose photos 7 and 8 you can see them digging much deeper than needed for just leveling the ground. They are up to their waists in snow. That’s about the height of their tent (1 meter). In the picture taken by the search and rescue party (on this site in the section “tent”) you can see how the tent is dug in as well.
To me it seems like a sensible decision. Whether they were able to erect (?) suspend (?) the stove or not, a blazing hot exhaust pipe doesn’t do you much good on a windswept mountainside. All that heat dissipates before you can say “icicles”. Digging in and letting the body heat of nine sardines in a can do the rest would probably be the better option.
Perhaps that’s why they went up there in the first place. To practice this all important (level 3?) winter survival skill: building a snow shelter.
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 16:21 (GMT)
How does ball lighting bash skulls, crush chest cavities, and give people injuries consistent with fist fighting? Imh, ball lighting is one of the weakest theories.
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 16:12 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - the ball lightning theory is the only one that fits all the facts and eye witness reports in that region in that period. Plus there's even photographic evidence.
Mike Smith 10-08-2017 15:41 (GMT)
Apologies Nigel. The videos look to have been posted by a John Wolfe.
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 15:38 (GMT)
Heck, any one of them could have stuck their hand in an existing hole and ripped downward. I wouldn't narrow it down to whomever had a cutting device. After the tent was more/less destroyed, there wouldn't be any point in returning to it for shelter.... only to retrieve its contents. However, by this time (in the woods) its a strong possibility they couldn't even see the tent due to conditions (reason to climb tree) and would have to hang out a while for visibility to improve (start a fire). By the time anyone attempts to return to the tent for goods, several have already died of exposure and a few will die attempting to reach the tent. Yuri and Yuri may have been observing the others progress for the tree. Its all conjecture but a few individuals show clear signs of kicking someone's ass or getting their ass whipped.
Mike Smith 10-08-2017 15:23 (GMT)
@Nigel. I got to go back and check out the lecture you posted on lightning.
Mike Smith 10-08-2017 15:08 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon, a wind slab is still my #1 theory, but I have not dismissed the argument/fight Theory. Yuri Krivonischenko would be my candidate. He looks to have carried a fixed blade knife with him, which would be the preferred tool for slashing a tent. Based on the incident at the train station, he dosn't seem to have an aversion to trouble or causing a scene: Yuri ends up at the losing end of an argument, "I need some air", "Yuri we've already secured the tent, just chill out", "Screw you guys. I'm out of here", and slashes the tent and heads down the slope and the crew takes off after him.

Of Course Dyatlov had a lot of pride and felt ownership for the hike. The tent modification was his. The custom stove was his design. The organization of the hike was his. If his command was challenged due to the navigational mistakes or the choice of camp sight, I could see Dyatlov blowing a nut. Did he have have a fixed blade or locking knife? It could have been done by a hatchet. Modern forensics could make that determination. I would have thought 1959 forensics should have been able to correlates slashes to knifes and hatchets. Not sold on this, the forensics of the tent slashes is a completely mess. As always we ar against a wall of incomplete information.
Nigel Evans 10-08-2017 15:07 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - i'd agree that the "crime" scene was poorly handled. The first people on the scene were students from the university and they were interested in rescue not a criminal investigation so the tent and it's contents weren't respected.

@All non believers in the one true ball lightning theory - No one's put it better than Sherlock Holmes :-

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?".
This was Ivanov's conclusion. None of the murder theories stand up.

Q Why did they flee the tent in their socks but then light a fire?
A. Because it was a non sentient threat.

Q How could they have been dropped from a height and not broken limbs?
A It's not possible, they were crushed not dropped.

Q. If the state did it why woud they spend so much money investigating it?
A. Because the state didn't do it and was concerned about defection of sensitive assets.
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 05:36 (GMT)
Correction... looks like it was a debate on which cedar it was. #1 or #2. Ruskies say #1
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 05:30 (GMT)
Here is your tree line... Cedar and den. http://taina.li/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352.0;attach=40541;image Looks like your original tip map. http://taina.li/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=141.0;attach=1203;image
Loose-Cannon 10-08-2017 05:07 (GMT)
The cedar as it looks today. https://fotki.yandex.ru/users/mr-malecon/album/257130/
Anna Yordanova 09-08-2017 21:45 (GMT)
I am sure that their deaths are not result from natural or environmental factors.They were killed.Where is the piece of clothing recognized by yuri Yudin that did not belong to any of them?Mysteriously disappears.Why?Because the authorities didn`t want any further digging into the case.I still think that the killers have been in the storage house and the hikers have been targeted.Someone wanted them dead.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 21:20 (GMT)
Hell, just look at a few pics of Igor... He has the Charles Manson eyes if I've ever seen em. We even have a picture of him climbing a tree like some kinda monkey. That boy is a few fries short of a happy-meal for certain.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 21:16 (GMT)
Toss a few in a ditch, one gets away but dies on the slope... You know, something logical. Wouldn't be the first time someone went full-retard on a group of people.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 21:14 (GMT)
If any movie should be made on the subject... It should be where Igor gets increasingly frustrated at the Zina Yuri love affair going on under his nose while he is getting strung along by her in typical tease fashion. Then, on the side of that mountain something triggers him resulting in him going full-retard on the group. One gets a crack across the skull with a baseball bat similar log, another gets pounced on from outta the tree, a few get beat unconscious and eventually freeze. Even his precious Zina who broke his heart gets a few knuckle samiches to the face, and a crack across the waist with the stick/log.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 21:05 (GMT)
Stupid auto-correction... I am not responsible for what my phot types. Umkay..... Lol
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 21:03 (GMT)
If anyone within the party had a motive to go ape-sheet, it would have been Igor. Once unleashed, there would likely be no turning back as his reputation with the University etc would be ruined. Silence people cannot tell on you.
Mike Smith 09-08-2017 19:25 (GMT)
Nigel I have disagree with you about the importance of which side the tent was slashed. I think modern criminologists would agree that it is one of the most important pieces of information. Of course these are 1959 criminologists. Maybe I'm the only one, but I kind of get the idea that they are a bit out of their depth. I would think in Russia there would be forensics experts that would specialize in these types of cases. But these investigators seem to be a bit heavy handed with the crime scene evidence I get the feeling we have investigators more comfortable prosecuting participants in bar fights then actually using the inductive skills that their titles would suggest.

I'm stating what everyone already knows. We are dealt big with an incomplete or misleading data set either through accident or intent.

As for a heated argument/fight, I've seen particapents do some pretty irrational things. I can't ignore it.
Anna Yordanova 09-08-2017 17:46 (GMT)
Those in the ravine were dropped from a high while probably unconscious.Horizontal deceleration injuries include skull fracture,intracranial hemorrhage,sternal fractures,fractured ribs.If they have been walking they would have Vertical deceleration injuries compatible with fractures on the lower part of the body like legs and feet.They have fractured ribs and chest and also one of them severely fractured skull and neck.This for me exclude the possibility for them to walk to the ravine.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 17:13 (GMT)
None of my quotes were from Igor
Nigel Evans 09-08-2017 16:47 (GMT)
Just trying to help. Winking
Your post about ID's irritability combined with his last diary entry does suggest to me that he didn't like the next step in the plan but orders are orders and SZ was there to make sure they were obeyed.

Also something I haven't suggested before is that the EM radiation from ball lightning can induce a sound, perhaps a rattling and they might have fled because of perceived noise.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 16:23 (GMT)
Never have I mentioned shrooms or sex. Again, I only offer possible contributing factors. I'll be the last person you find claiming to know what happened from A to Z. Don't​ patronize.
Nigel Evans 09-08-2017 16:17 (GMT)
Add some acid, magic mushrooms and some group jiggy jiggy to stay warm and you've got yourself a theory...... Happy
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 16:07 (GMT)
Then you add in the fact Igor has put them in a deadly situation, at one point or another most boys on the trip admitted to having a crush on Zina, Igor is currently Zinas tease victim, Zina brought her ex-boyfriend along for the trip, and the 38 year old is a known creepy womanizer.

Add in a little alcohol and some physical and mental stress..... You may have an issue.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 15:56 (GMT)
Blonde chicky....

"Nobody wanted to take this Zolotarev first, for he is a new man, but then they spat and took, because you can not refuse"

"They talked all sorts of nonsense, of course, everyone was interested, everyone said, Trying to shout over each other and refute other statements"

"even sometimes he says something insulting. Does he think I'm some kind of fool. And I generally like to pour oil on fire, damn me. "

"The mood is bad and probably will be two more days. Evil as hell."



Brunette chicky....

"Last night the boys stupidly joked. In my opinion, they do not need to pay attention, maybe they will be less rude."

"Igor all the evening was rude, I just did not recognize him."

Nigel Evans 09-08-2017 14:24 (GMT)
Nothing if they elected to make the diversion. The Ortorten Times entries that evening show them in good spirits.
Loïc 09-08-2017 14:15 (GMT)
Hi guys,

It's not easy to have in mind what the place of the event looks like.
Unfortunaly I don't speak russian, but I've found 2 russian amateurs videos interesting to watch to "feel" the Khlolat landscape

during summertime (start at 11'00'')
https://youtu.be/GGnuTUr4G8k during wintertime (mostly 0 to 14')
https://youtu.be/0feP5n3wa2k
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 14:03 (GMT)
What 'wasn't' there to fight about? Lol
Nigel Evans 09-08-2017 12:49 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - what sort of heated argument could have them going down the hill in their socks and then building a fire and a den when everything is at the tent?

The rescue party created one of the slits chipping through the very hard snow, which is an indication (together with the hot spot and raised footprints) that the snow had been warmed and refrozen. They also removed one of the sections to get inside from memory. But afaik all the other slits are original or caused by flapping (not very probable imo).

Personally i don't think the question of the slit being cut from inside or outside is very important. If outside it could still have been one of the two better dressed. More important imo are the numerous slits, they were observing something very important. You don't cut that many slits to watch the moon... and then there's the three heads photo...

No my theory for the ravine four is that they were crushed in the den and had to be quickly dug out (suffocation in approx 30mins) and laid a few metres away from it. What first aid could be given for a crushed skull, flail chests and a corpse? Except perhaps gather clothing from the dead to assist the living.... This fits with the evidence, SZ wearing LD's stuff, pathologist said he would have outlived her.
Mike Smith 09-08-2017 12:34 (GMT)
My parents time of exploration would have been about the same time 57-62'ish. They were Americans and their exploration was in the Washington Cascades. I just remember how heavy their equipment was from skis to tents, to the cooking kits. Without exaggerating, I think modern equipment is a 10th the weight of their 50s counterpart.
Mike Smith 09-08-2017 12:11 (GMT)
@LooseCannon I've never completely dismissed a heated argument in the group that may have gotten out of hand. What muddies the water is we don't really have a clear understanding of the cuts in the tent. As, I think you pointed out, there was some entries in the journal on some angst caused by the mending of them. I wish the search crew could tell us which cuts were theirs, and which were pre-existing. I'll have to see if there is something in the forensics with a breakdown. I think you mentioned that the cut-from-the-inside stuff may have been cause by a a partially collapsed, stiff frozen tent rubbing against items inside when the wind blows.

@Nigel with the theory of the Igor, Slobadin, and Zina looked after the four in the creek bed before heading back to the tent for supplies. I need to better understand the position of the snow shelter in relation to the creek bed. If the 4 were alive, I would think they would have tried to get them to the snow shelter. There dosn't to appear to be any type of first aid given. Under this scenario I would think Igor, Slobadin, and Zina were trying to get up to the tent to save themselves with no intention of coming back down.
Nigel Evans 09-08-2017 08:03 (GMT)
They would dry their clothes by draping them over the stove. If they misjudged adding firewood to the stove in the night they could scorch them.

Their behaviour at the cedar is too organised to be hallucinating/intoxicated/crazy etc.

ZK/ID/RS were trying to return to the tent after digging the ravine 4 out and nursing them. That all three gave up within 330 metres of each other is significant imo. Could be windchill or could be microwaves. ZK's face was covered in blood from scratches and abrasions.

The two Yuris show much more frostbite than any of the others. Probably because they were observers in the cedar and suffered far more wind chill. Falling from the cedar and lying concussed and unattended can explain the burns. An explosion could cause this and would explain the collapse of the den and the dead birds.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 04:58 (GMT)
Speaking of burn marks. What is the common conclusion as to why the one dude (im bad with names) was pictured days beforehand posing in a shredded up coat/jacket that is presumably burned?

I read something in one of the journals about a camp fire that got out of control, but there was no mention regarding any coat/jacket being burned up in the process. You would think if this were the case, it would be a key part of the story in the journal.

Or.. could this be another mysterious Igor stove conundrum?
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 04:50 (GMT)
@Mike

I contemplated the same idea. If you were walking down hill and collapsed due to (insert reason here), you likely would not willingly go down on your face. You would naturally plop down on your azz and lay back from there... Possibly roll over. To me, the head facing orientation is irrelevant for several reasons. I can picture those two never making it down in the first place, but it also makes me ask why would they not even make it to the tree line given they were fresh outta the tent? This was a ruski that was bit by a viper and refused to transfer her load onto the rest of her team on a previous trip.

I also think of all these ideas of who some of the victims must have been fighting with given the nature of their 'hand to hand combat' injuries to the knuckles, temples, mouth etc. In my opinion, they were fighting among themselves and not against some intruder etc.
Mike Smith 09-08-2017 04:33 (GMT)
I like the theory that Slobadin and Zina never made it down the hill. And, Igor borrowed a jacket and headed back up to look for them. That is backed by the fact that they do not appear to be wearing borrowed clothes nor have burn marks like those that might have been trying to stay warm next to the bonfire. Why face toward the tent? It might've been more comfortable to lay that way rather than downhill , or it might've been easier to resist the highwinds facing up hill.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 02:45 (GMT)
Continuation..

What I find odd is all this crap thats presumed to be 'fact'.

Example: Some Russian made the executive decision that the tent was slashed open from the inside. Now everyone considers this as fact right? Welp, what if there were already numerous rips in the canvas (Igors jacket stuffed in hole) and like the blonde chicky states in her diary (I used my time on duty sewing up all the darn holes in the tent blah bla bork spit). Lets just think logically here for a moment.... If you have a tent already full of holes collapsing in on itself in full-retard speed wind on the side of a mountain flappin away for WEEKS and rubbing on god knows what inside the tent... Ya think those holes/rips may get bigger? Point being.... Instead of running in circles trying to figure out why they slashed their way out, perhaps you can also debate why they may have buttoned up the front expected to return but not. Thats the outside of the box thinking I'm talking about.
Loose-Cannon 09-08-2017 02:32 (GMT)
@Mikey

"Oh, come on, LSD panic? Let's be serious here because these people were SERIOUS hikers. Let's NOT turn this into some sort of event where everybody lost their collective minds. Look at this objectively, okay?"

"There are a LOT of stories and posts out there (on the internet) that get facts WRONG."

"This forum provides us to toss out ideas as we see fit."

"I certainly won't go out of my way to afford everyone with some stupid explanation of UFO's or the Yeti nor Elvis impersonating someone in the Dyatlov party."


No offense Mikey, but your posts seem a tad.... Hypocritical? My replies may be short when working. Winking I only tossed something out there for folks to chew on a while without being able to go into full bible length detail on the subject. I do however find it quite high-horse of you to NOT even entertain the slightest new idea someone puts forth without even doing a simple google search and find out wtf the person is referring to. If this is going to turn into a 'mikey says hes unbiased​, but is actually SUPER biased As long as it fits HIS narrative'.... I'll be taking my ball and leaving. The choice is ultimately up to you.

On a side note... I didn't just stumble into this crap because I recently saw Devils Pass. I did some pretty hard research om the subject years ago for my own self satisfaction. While I may not remember what food they packed or remember every word written in the diaries, I have a fair understanding of story line and main information that can be considered as fact and not conjecture. While I may not fancy some theories, you will not find me blatantly dismissing other folks opinion without thought or consideration.

Side note: My mother inlaw grew up roughly 100mi from where this happened and was of the age 9. If you don't think unregulated food products in back-woods Soviet Union can manifest unintended side effects from moldy rye used in bread.... You haven't done your research. I am not claiming this as a fact, nor that it was ingested purposely. Its simply a possibility, just like its 'possible' some nuke grads could have made a radioisotope heater the Russian gov just may not have wanted anyone to find out about.

Side note #2. Have you ever taken LSD? If so, you should know that peoples minds tend to grasp onto some wild idea and not let it go. You may find yourself searching for Atlantis in a field of grass because the bark on a tree led you to believe it was there. You may start your 'trip' with 8 other people and within a few hours have no freaking clue where they all went because you were so wrapped up in Atlantis hidden in the weeds. Perhaps in a few days you will contact your 8 buddies and find out where they went, with whom, what they did etc.
Mike Smith 09-08-2017 01:49 (GMT)
Waiting for my baseball game to start. This is probably wrong but figure I would post the tree line scene that been running through my head.

The two Yuri's died of hypothermia pretty quick. I'm thinking the group didn't realize how dire their condition was, and gave them instructions to start a fire, maybe with other people to help. We don't know. Anyway as we know, it failed and some of the two Yuri's clothes were collected. Meanwhile Igor is doing what he does and is trying to organize the others into two groups. One to work on a snow shelter and the other to go up to the tent for supplies. I could see everyone putting their 2 cents in and Zena getting pissed off and giving them a quick jester of disapproval, as she start heading up the hill, Slobadin's takes off after her. After Igor puts Sasha in charge, he takes off after Slobadin and Zena. As we know they never make it back and after a certain time, in their hastily constructed snow shelter, our 4 survivors decide they better go find some firewood and get a fire started. They stay together. 3 or all 4 end up fallout into the ravine that was hidden in someway probably with an ice/snow bridge or maybe just brush. After that I'm lost. I think Sasha and Lula died quick but hitting rocks, but the other two I'm not sure about.
Mike Smith 09-08-2017 01:16 (GMT)
Not an expert on wind slab,( I only learned they existed about 2 days ago), but I'm guessing their slippery. Slippery downhills are something I'm familiar with from my youth in the northern climates. You can't run down them even if you want to. Also never went down a slippery hill with 8 of my fellow compadres, but I'm guessing they might have used each other for support. Not sure if that's it. Just a thought.
Mikey 09-08-2017 01:05 (GMT)
@Mike Smith

I enjoy your candor. This is refreshing.

We do know facts on this. As much as we can ALL go by. The investigators (Russian translation "search engines"Winking did do some diligent work. But not enough. Remember, the Soviet Union was full of lies and of course mis-steps. Covering things up, no matter the banal it could be, was worthwhile to them at the time. It COULD have been a complete natural death on everyone. Sure. Is it possible? Of course.

The thing is that even a "natural" death seems suspect. Lots of things have to happen to create such a horrendous outcome. I think we all agree on that.

We have to think about what NOT made them leave the tent. All that is speculation. What needs to be focused on is, to start, why they did not run but WALKED down the slope. They did not run. Single file, 8 or 9 tracks according to the investigators. If 8, then why?

Slobodon was carried? who knows. but these questions need answered FIRST befor we all get to the cedar.

And I thank you for your investigation. All helps.

-Mikey
Mike Smith 09-08-2017 00:22 (GMT)
@Mikey what I found agrees with what you have. The The stove was found in the center of the tent in its case. There was a piece of wood outside of the back of the tent which would've provided for a warm breakfast. Or maybe that was for the next campsite.
Mike Smith 08-08-2017 23:49 (GMT)
There have been theories rolling around that the "Event" happened while the evening rations were being prepared,(as much preparation is involved with cold rations ) and everyone was getting ready for bed . I think I agree with this based on the varying degrees of dress among our tourists, the food being out but little having been consumed, and their kit still being spread out, which would not facilitate nine people sleeping in very tight quarters.
Mike Smith 08-08-2017 23:29 (GMT)
Glad you brought that up Nigel. I just read similar information about the tent and it correlates with yours. The tent could be either raise to its full height with the side walls exposed. This is the configuration where the stove could be used. The tent could also be configured down where the side walls are folded and only the angled roof is exposed. This position is used because it reduces exposure to the wind,( which sounds like there was an abundance ), and the roof could be supported by ski poles with less reliance on guy lines. What I was reading there was one piece of wood found near the back tent wall, which investigators thought might be used for a quick warm breakfast in the morning. That makes me think of in a pinch they could get the stove working in the down position for a short time. Maybe they just laid the stove outside the entryway i'm cook that way. I guess with all the dust settles I am convinced that they intended to sleep in the tent with no heat in temperatures close to 0°F.
Moose 08-08-2017 23:29 (GMT)
Thanks for the book recommendations Nigel! I will order the two you suggested.
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 22:35 (GMT)
The tent could be pitched in two ways, high and narrow in sheltered areas - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Unknown-origin-Dyatlov-photos-05.jpg or low and wide in exposed places - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-tent-01.jpg This seems to have ruled out using the stove as it would hang too low for them to sleep underneath it and they'd get scorched.
Mikey 08-08-2017 22:15 (GMT)
As to my post below, I don't wish to be on the offensive. By no means. There are a LOT of stories and posts out there (on the internet) that get facts WRONG.

The investigation was botched from the beginning. All WE have to go by is what WE, as informed people (and of course menial investigators) have at our fingertips. Many of us are NOT professionals at this.

This forum provides us to toss out ideas as we see fit.

I certainly won't go out of my way to afford everyone with some stupid explanation of UFO's or the Yeti nor Elvis impersonating someone in the Dyatlov party.

There IS an answer to this. If everyone looks in all the cracks and crevasses and finds an airtight solution, I'm happy. I know what I believe so far, but then I am willing to listen to others' ideas as well.

An open mind.

-Mikey
Mikey 08-08-2017 21:57 (GMT)
Oh, come on, LSD panic? Let's be serious here because these people were SERIOUS hikers. Let's NOT turn this into some sort of event where everybody lost their collective minds.

Look at this objectively, okay?

CLOTHES:
There were two types of clothes these hikers wore. We KNOW this. Outdoor hiking clothes and indoor sleeping clothes. Most were ready to bed down for the evening and have a meal before sleeping:

"The departure of the woodpeckers from the tent to the cedar, they explained by the long nature of the danger that took place on the slope and prompted tourists to urgently seek salvation in the Lozva Valley. Since the clothes of the dead clearly did not match the weather conditions, Moscow experts suggested that the danger caught up with those at the time of dressing."

The meat stash was open but wasn't really touched:

FOOD:

"The attention of the rescuers who tilled the tent attracted a large, kilogram by 3 weight, a piece of ham-loin extracted from the bag, and a strip of pigskin skin, torn from the ham, lying on the blanket. At the time when an emergency occurred with the group of Djatlov, the tourists clearly intended to cut this "loaf" for reception in food."

There ya go.

Both of the above in italics explain why things are the way they were that night.

THE STOVE:

Igor- "He was the developer of a small-sized stove, which was used in campaigns in 1958-59. And proved its functionality. According to some reports, Dyatlov, it seems, was invited to stay in UPI after graduating from the institute to continue his scientific work. By 1959 Igor had considerable experience of distant hikes of varying degrees of complexity and among the members of the sports section of the sports club UPI was considered one of the most experienced athletes."

ALSO:

"Two bowlers, and also a cylindrical stove. Witnesses described the condition of the stove in different ways: some claimed that it was stuffed with chips and wood chips, while others said that parts of the chimney had been disassembled inside. For us it is important now to note that the stove at the time of emergency was clearly not used by the group for its intended purpose."

"Igor Dyatlov's hanging stove and chimney assembled (they were not used during the last night and found on the floor of the tent). Zone "A" - a place to the left of the entrance, where almost all the footwear of the group was found to be dumped."

There are many facets to this investigation. I have read that items in the tent were indeed re-arranged into small piles when found. Some investigating this in later years explain that the rescuers were "willy-nilly" at documenting everything in the tent, including taking a bottle of alcohol FROM THE TENT and drinking it that night, which belonged to the Dyatlov party. It has been documented.

ALCOHOL:

"Over dinner, the search engines decided to drink alcohol found in Djatlov's tent, which was done with considerable (and quite understandable) enthusiasm. The episode with alcohol drinking is a very important point, which now needs to be paid attention, since it will still have to return in the course of the subsequent narrative. Then there was a very curious exchange of remarks, which can not be ignored. Boris Slobtsov offered to drink to the health of the wanted guys, to which forester Ivan Pashin responded very grimly: "You'd rather drink for the rest!" The students were enraged, considering the replica of the local resident cynical and inappropriate, the case almost came to a fight. Even then, after the discovery of the abandoned tent, none of them wanted to believe in the bad ... "

The initial investigation had many flaws.

I hope this answers some questions you may have.

-Mikey





Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 20:24 (GMT)
How much LSD bread did they buy in town l, and were they tripping balls?
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 16:34 (GMT)
Ah.. my mistake. I was referring to the aqua lines. Yes, the dark blue line is a runoff drainage area (bottom of valley)
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 16:28 (GMT)
Not sure, the text that looks like "BoAa" means water (and it's a blue line...).

If anyone's interested you can translate the text in the image by finding the right keys here - http://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/russian.htm and then copy and paste into google translate.
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 16:07 (GMT)
The blue lines show the search line direction.
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 16:05 (GMT)
No... The dotted line is the treeline in your pic. Its squiggly and dips down like a U. Its accurate I guess.... Just misleading. No brush at all out past Igor towards the tent, and the 'brush, Igor was in is EXTREMELY thin at best.
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 15:58 (GMT)
Thanks for the photo but i think it confirms the map if you assume he's including brush. But it's a good photo in explaining their decisions. The text that looks like KeAp is the cedar. So they headed straight for it. The blue line appears to be the ridge. So imo the only tree that appeared above the ridge when they set off was the top part of the cedar.

So although the brush was nearer it wouldn't have provided shelter from the wind. They opted to go further down for proper shelter and a vantage point to observe back to the tent.
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 15:38 (GMT)
Bingo... You are now seeing the correct treeline on the image you linked to. Its misleading
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 15:34 (GMT)
Study this carefully and let me know what you see...

https://ibb.co/bP7TZv
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 15:08 (GMT)
The tree line is the wiggly dashed line?
Happy to be shown the map is incorrect.
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 15:00 (GMT)
He was likely going off of where the 'brush' leading up to to the actual tree line was at, but even at this I find it problematic and nobody is without faults. If you observe the pictures of the three victims found that were said to be returning to the tent, Igor is in very light/thin brush, and the other two further out are in full open plains on the side of the mountain.... Nothing but wind swept snow. If you go by that drawing, all three were well within the trees. I don't buy it. I joined the Russian forum site dedicated to this and later on I can post some actual photos that may show what Im talking about. That drawing is inaccurate and misleading.
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 14:44 (GMT)
From memory it was drawn by one of the investigation team.
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 14:28 (GMT)
That drawing is somewhat inaccurate and misleading.
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 14:07 (GMT)
Follow the dashed line - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-flashlight.jpg
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 14:04 (GMT)
That doesn't make sense. Literally everything I have seen and read states the cedar is just inside the treeline. No way they went 1000m past the treeline into the woods.
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 13:55 (GMT)
The cedar is 1500m away. But that's not the tree line.
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 13:38 (GMT)
Seems I normally find 1.5 kilometers quoted as the distance to the tree line. Sure looks further then 500m the the photos.
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 12:41 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - " I HIGHLY doubt there was anyone else screwing around up there other then themselves.". Absolutely agree.

They were only 500m from the forest line - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-flashlight.jpg
Loose-Cannon 08-08-2017 12:22 (GMT)
There are other 'dirty' materials that would do the same job.

Like others have stated.... Judging by the last set of photos, they were digging in under extreme whiteout conditions on the side of a mountain with VERY limited visibility and extremely low neg temps. I HIGHLY doubt there was anyone else screwing around up there other then themselves. In my opinion, the first huge mistake was attempting to traverse that ridge under such conditions in the first place, secondly deciding to stay the night on that mountain only 1mi from a forest line. I don't care how experienced they were..... They made one huge mistake after another which cost them their lives.
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 11:56 (GMT)
@Mikey - when i try and open that link it translates the page and then clears it. So i can't read it.
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 11:51 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon - Plutonium 238... Hmmm.
Nigel Evans 08-08-2017 11:50 (GMT)
@Moose - hi, i've read "Don't Go There - Post Mortem" and "Dyatlov Pass Keeps It's Secrets". Both are good pieces of research, DGTPM includes a full translation of the PM reports. DPKIS includes a lot of links to the statements of individuals from the rescue/investigation teams (in Russian). DGTPM attempts to suggest a solution which i don't agree with, DPKIS wisely just discusses all the main theories.
Anna Yordanova 08-08-2017 11:40 (GMT)
I think that the cedar`s branches were broken not because they observed the tent but because they were trying to locate Dubinina,Kolevatov,Tibeaux-Brignolle and Zolotaryov.Dyatlov as the leader of the group thought that they probably will be able to see where they have been taken by climbing the tree.They were trying desperately to climb the tree in order to see what is going on with their friends.They did not observed the tent ,they were trying to see where is the rest of the group.
Anna Yordanova 08-08-2017 10:52 (GMT)
Probably one of them was kidnapped in the tent.The killers sneaked silently and broke from the front.There were footprints from 8 not 9 people,which makes me think that one of the group was taken inside.The others cut the tent and started running but were stopped by fire guns.Again Just a thought.
colada 08-08-2017 07:16 (GMT)
Hello from Czech republic. Here I found an article with most likely explanation what can happend. Without mystery. Is it in Czech language..
http://zajimavosti.info/lukas-falteisek-proc-se-nedari-najit-tajemneho-vraha-datlovovy-expedice/
Mikey 08-08-2017 03:26 (GMT)
An interesting interview with one of the investigators that found the ravine four dated JAN 28
2014: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=https://www.kp.ru/daily/26186/3075303/&prev=search
Moose 08-08-2017 01:48 (GMT)
Hi Everyone,
Looking for a book recommendation for someone already familiar with the case. Looking to read something that gets into a bit more detail than some of the more main stream books out there.
Thanks!
Loose-Cannon 07-08-2017 23:22 (GMT)
In addition, I saw that 'group diary' page but didn't seem to read anything like you guys quoted. What am I missing... Where are their individual personal diaries?
Loose-Cannon 07-08-2017 23:00 (GMT)
Looks like I may have posted a broken link...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_heater_unit
Loose-Cannon 07-08-2017 22:51 (GMT)
The main issue is.... You only have the evidence reluctantly given by the Russian government. Its the information in which they wont release that will forever fubar any investigation attempts. Given the server lacking of information regarding this home made heater contraption, and these peoples field of study... I would keep an open mind.


wikipedia/en/e/e8/Radioisotope_heater_unit.gif

Mike Smith 07-08-2017 22:42 (GMT)
Thanks Nigel. I've run across that picture. Hopefully I'll run across some more info. Hopefully, like someone's how's actually tried to build one. I need to find a Dyatlov inventory. One of the theories for the presence of radiation was that old school kerosene mantles were made with Thorium, which is radioactive and that is where the reading came from. Anyone who who replaced the mantles probably get some of it on them. Of course we know that two of our happy campers worked at facilities that processed radioactive material.

Sidetracked, anyway if our resourceful campers could use the kerosene lamp/s for heat, that would save them from foraging for wood.
Nigel Evans 07-08-2017 22:21 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-tent-03.jpg seems to show enough imo. It's just a set of tubes that can be dismantled to be carried. The person on watch had to sleep next to the stove and put firewood in when required. Haven't heard of the lamps. They had torches.

Don't think it was nuclear powered... Happy

@Loose Cannon - under the section titled "Diary".
Mike Smith 07-08-2017 22:05 (GMT)
If it is true that the stove was not used on the last night, was this their only heat source? I've heard mention of kerosene lamps. Not sure if we are talking 1 or 2, can't imagine anymore. Probably the same problem with the stove. We don't know enough about them to know if they can be used more as a heat source than for illumination, of if our resourcefull tourist,( can't get enough of that word), had other methods of producing heat.
Loose-Cannon 07-08-2017 21:45 (GMT)
Where have you guys obtained the contents of the personal diaries?
Mike Smith 07-08-2017 21:36 (GMT)
Nigel. I keep coming my across the same problem and I don't know how to address it. We don't know enough about this stove: size, weight, construction, fuel consumption. I'll have to do some more digging. Maybe the other writter is right and the nuke'ified it. I'm Kidding, I think.
Nigel Evans 07-08-2017 21:32 (GMT)
@Loic - thanks for the first article i'll have a read. The second one has already discussed on this thread Happy Yes it's all about microwaves imo although these DP lights and Hessdalen seem a little different from typical ball lightning. Not so much shell structures more a glow discharge from a point source and can last much longer.

Yes i like the electric universe case for the scarring of planets and moons. But as to the cause i prefer some unknown solar behaviour to their ideas, where else could this amount of energy come from?
Nigel Evans 07-08-2017 21:21 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - this is the last section in the diary (written by ID) :-
"It's warm. It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements.".
So he seems to be recognising that it will be harder up there.

They take the stove but camp near the summit but don't make a detour to pickup firewood from the forest just 800m away. It is all strange. I don't find it easy to explain this except that either they got lost or there was a last minute change of plan. From the last photos conditions were extreme, why not divert to the forest and camp there with a warm tent? Seems a fairly shallow climb for the following day...

Unless on the ascent they saw something and elected to photograph it perhaps? Is the camera on a homemade tripod an important clue?
Mike Smith 07-08-2017 20:49 (GMT)
Yuri Yudin's description of the verying degree of dress of typical tourist's positioned within a heated tent matches well with our 9 victims. But the stove had to have been used. If a stove wasn't used on a sub zero night, everyone should have been wearing everything they own. Even then, I would doubt they would have been very comfortable.

Can't explain why the stove appears to be stowed. The state of dress of the two Yuri's under the tree tells me it was used.
Loïc 07-08-2017 20:48 (GMT)
@Nigel
Thanks for the links ttps://www.thunderbolts.info
Quite interesting theories about this electrical universe
About low angle meteors generating glowing balls this article is also quite interesting
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/412816.pdf I've found in this scientific article "Relativistic-microwave theory of ball lightning" quite interesting also
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4916449/ The theorical studies of human injuries by microwave and and a very few real-life cases lead maybe to an explanation for the strange orange tan color of the corpses of the group.
Mike Smith 07-08-2017 19:56 (GMT)
"... of course, it was too cold to sleep without a stove, at the time, sleeping bags were wadded, very inconvenient, and were usually ignored, never use during the hikes" Yuri Yudin

Later the on " it was comfortable inside with the stove lit up. And we undressed almost like at home well, of course the ones who slept furtherest from the center felt cold, they were more or less dressed and the ones who are closest to the stove... they felt really hot, and usually no one wanted to sleep next to it... people on duty had to keep the stove warm; they lay next to it. When they felt cold, it was time to add firewood." From Dyatov Pass Keeps its Secrets by Irina Lobatcheva
Loose-Cannon 07-08-2017 05:00 (GMT)
I find it odd that several of the victims had occupations working with radio active materials. Its also odd to me they received their degree at the same institute as the others studying 'radio engineering'. I would assume 'radio' could very well be the equivalent to the US term 'nuclear engineering'. Interesting to note Igores home-made stove and its possible heat source. Could someone have had access to neclear waste for Igor to make said heater? I remember reading somewhere that on of the diaries had an entry stating that they were all scared if this heater and nobody wanted to be the one wedged up next to it at night in the tent.... I think said heater may have malfunctioned forcing the group to evacuate the tent in a hasty manor and not exactly want to return to it. This could explain higher levels of radiation, trigger for in- fighting within the group, and the gov eagerness to cover up an embarrassing situation where loose protocols dealing with waste materials could cause global panic.
Mikey 07-08-2017 03:32 (GMT)
Let the flames against me begin. I don't mind. I'm no snowflake who cries at the drop of a hat.

I think Anna has ideas and I want to hear more of what she says. Maybe she has an idea that others here may enjoy listening to.

I'm open to that.
Mikey 07-08-2017 03:22 (GMT)
Hey all,

Give Anna some credit. I think she is on the right track. We ALL agree something happened at the tent to make them leave. We just don't know what. It's speculation. Something DID happen.

Of course what made them go almost a FULL mile to the cedar? With sleeping clothes? Come on, that is just stupidity. These hikers were not "run of the mill" screwballs, drunk, idiots.

EVERY one of them had been around the block. Even the gals had been shot and bit by a snake. And SURVIVED.

I, myself have been camping for years, since I was 5 years young and I bet each and every one of these people you would ask to help on a camping trip. No matter the weather. Each and every one would not only go with you but teach you things you never knew.

Each KNEW their shit and TEACH you what you needed to know.

Respects to Nigel, this WASN'T ball lightning. Sorry my friend, but you are grossly mistaken.

This was done by people who KNEW what they were doing. And the WHOLE party was taken by surprise, which I would be. Everyone here needs to notice something happened.

Not natural (as I thought at first), not ball lightning (which I considered), but a full fledged assault on innocent people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Mikey 07-08-2017 02:49 (GMT)
@Anna-

You may be right. The tent door, as described, as looking down the slope was to the RIGHT facing where the storage was. But sideways.

"When the group was chased out of their tent they went down the slope to forest, not to the storage site where they had left provisions before climbing Kholat Syakhl. 19 items (total weight of 55 kg) among them cereals, sugar, wood, Krivonischenko's mandolin, pair of skis used to mark the location, 2 pair of shoes (ski and warm), an ice pick, a cap, mask and a shirt. The shed seemed undisturbed."

This may be a clue, being that nobody was at the storage but the hikers.

They went down the hill for a reason. It wasn't ball lightning. Maybe they wanted to watch it. If they were there to see it, nobody mentioned it in their diary, which most would have.

The objective was to climb the mountain.

Sure, they may have encountered ball lightning, but I DO NOT believe this is why they went all the way down the slope. As I have said, if it were me in charge of the party, go down the slope a bit of the way until the danger passed, THEN get back to the tent. No reason to go to the storage nor the tree line about a mile away. If you and I were in such a predicament, no shoes, sleeping clothes etc., obvious choice.

Ball lightning did NOT force them out of the tent. I say this with grey areas as to Nigel. Respectively. Somebody went in there and slashed it to make it useless to those who came back. Maybe from inside. We may not know.

What we DO know is that the whole party went down the slope, at least a mile. That's a trek with no shoes. Nobody in their right mind would do that if it were something like ball lightning. Not me.

Anna, I think you are right. SOMEBODY forced them down the slope as far as they got to the cedar. Outside of some Yeti or aliens (we forgo that) the only OBVIOUS answer is that someone FORCED them down that slope.

And you are right, the tracks do tell that they WALKED down, not RAN down. That tells something as well. The investigation was quite botched, but in snow, even after three weeks, the investigators noticed that there were no drag marks, as if they were running.

Anna, you are on to something.

And I do not believe ball lightning followed everyone around and killed them. This was done in a way to MAKE it look natural (and I started with that theory) but THIS was not natural.

They were killed.
Nigel Evans 06-08-2017 20:12 (GMT)
mountain
Nigel Evans 06-08-2017 20:11 (GMT)
@Anna - what storage house? The labaz was at the previous camp and the tent was at the top of the miuntain
Anna Yordanova 06-08-2017 18:13 (GMT)
I am gonna repeat again what I said in my previous post.I think the killers were hidden in the storage house,ready or not for the hikers.They blocked the entrance of the tent and that`s why the group cut the tent open at the back trying to escape,They were stopped by armed people and that `s why they walked,not run as the footprints proved it.As one of the previous comments suggested someone probably wanted the people.I also find very bizarre that Yudin claimed that he is unwell,but went in search of geological samples.He is even on some of the photos.If I am unwell i wouldn`t be bothered to be photographed.Everything happened in the storage house.My opinion.

Nigel Evans 06-08-2017 10:27 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - wind slab can explain why they cut open the tent and got outside. But imo it doesn't explain why they didn't just pop back in and grab boots and outer clothing. It would be the obvious thing to do.

Are you aware of the hot spot and the theory that the snow was unusually warm, the temp raised closer to it's melt point?
Nigel Evans 06-08-2017 10:21 (GMT)
@Anna/@Loic/@Mikey
They didn't go to the storage house because there was no clothing there to protect them from the cold. It just had 55kg of food, a mandolin and a spare pair of skis they improvised as a sled.
Everything was in the tent and the plan was to monitor the tent from the cedar and return to it. It was a good plan except they didn't heed the mansi warnings about how dangerous these lights could be.

@Loic - interesting articles. I'm sure that science will one day explain why these lights phenomena are tied to localities and geology has to be a front runner.
I liked the second electrophonic article but need to consider it's implications, there's a possible connection with these guys - https://www.thunderbolts.info
Loïc 06-08-2017 07:36 (GMT)

@Anna
It puzzles me also why they didn't try to get the storage house instead of going to the opposite direction.
I think there were metallic items in the storage depot (canned food).
For me, they understood rapidly that they must leave their tent because of the presence of lots of metallic items (stove, ski pole, etc) attracting this kind of electromagnetic glowing bowl.
And if they were probably scared that if they went to the storage depot, these glowing balls would be attracted also by this place.
Mikey 05-08-2017 21:17 (GMT)
I do think that flailed chest, fractured ribs or broken ribs is not the real point. The real point is that some of these people were in a whole world of hurt. Just MOVING was painful. Enough to make people pass out from the pain. The tracks prove that they walked (or ran) down the hill of their own accord. Maybe Slobodon was carried or did walk down on his own, which either is a possibility.

@Mike-

Sorry, I didn't forget about you.

Tracks in Siberian winter will last a long time. Remember, it never gets above freezing. Compressed snow (underfoot) may ice up and last a good long while, while preserving the tracks. One month may not be out of the possibility.
Mikey 05-08-2017 21:07 (GMT)
@Nigel-

Even on this site it states the injuries as follows: Lyudia-ribs 2, 3, 4, 5 are broken on the right side, two fracture lines are visible
ribs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 are broken on the left side, two fracture massive hemorrhage in the heart's right atrium
Semyon-flail chest, broken ribs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 on the right side, two fracture lines

Copypasta from the "DEATH" section of this site.

@Anna-

Great to meet you. As to why they didn't go back to the storage area? I think there are many ideas on that. One of which is because they planned on returning to the tent when the coast was clear. Everything they needed was there. The storage was intended AFTER they scaled the mountain. The second is maybe an avalanche blocked their path? Third is what Nigel says, that ball lightning may have blocked their path. Fourth is that they were forced down the hill by an attacker.

I think they intended to go back to the tent. Igor, Zina and Slobodon were certainly trying to as to how and where they were found. They just didn't make it.

Conclusions are not easy to come to in this story. Read down to some recent comments and see if any scenario suits you or has a few ideas that you have. Finding airtight theorys will be hard to do.
Anna Yordanova 05-08-2017 20:30 (GMT)
In my opinion the key factor in this tragedy is the storage house situated south from the tent.Whatever or whoever scared them was hidden in this premises and that`s why they did not seek shelter there.
Mike Smith 05-08-2017 19:17 (GMT)
I agree with you that they had to be mobile to get down to the tree line. I think the Windslab explains what got them moving and why the tent was slashed. If the raised footprints are real, they prove that windslabs were present that night. When all the injuries occurred is still a mystery. Not sure I agree that all 9 had to be up and walking. I'm still not convinced that one couldn't have been carried. Sorry, I'm still getting my head around how how footprints are still discernible after 3 weeks and 3 days. Admittedly Siberian snow is a little different than snow I grew up with. I'm willing to accept it over someone faking raised footprints. Who would have thought of that?
Nigel Evans 05-08-2017 17:41 (GMT)
@Mikey - just to confirm, we're not talking about fractured ribs but flail chests (LD and SZ), a deformed (snapped?) neck (AK) and NTB's skull was so badly cracked that his head had lost symmetry. But no broken limbs or even a collar bone... The pathologist estimated that AK was dead immediately, LD died within minutes with SZ surviving longer and NTB probably lived for a couple of hours but remained unconcious. These people didn't walk anywhere after those injuries.
Mikey 05-08-2017 16:33 (GMT)
Hey Mike,

I unfortunately have to agree with Nigel in regards to the avalanche theory. First, we MAY be able to place Slobodon (Rustem) into your theory Mike. He was in BAD shape going down that hill. He had skull fractures on BOTH sides of the head and a large fracture toward the front of the skull. According to those who performed the autopsy and medical practitioners, those injuries may have taken some time to set in and incapacitate him. Up to 30 minutes in the cold weather as well. Did he make it to the cedar and from there trudge back to the tent? He was found facing the tent going up the hill at 480 meters from the cedar. Did he notice that his injuries were making him not function properly and decided to turn around back to the tent before reaching the cedar?

The real clue is what happened to the ravine four.

Lyuda was a strong gal, but not so strong as to make it down that hill with such broken ribs AND one rib puncturing her heart. I myself have had just BRUISED ribs and I will say, standing or laying in certain positions is a true test of pain management.

Also take in the fact that Semyon had fractured ribs as well. As well as being the oldest and may have sustained rib injuries while with his armed forces, His pain would be the same as Lyuda, but with less injuries.

Just taking those two into account, walking down that hill, getting to the cedar, then branching off to the ravine would take some superhuman aptitude.

If an avalanche had taken place and just the people I mentioned sustained those injuries during the avalanche, I would be hard pressed to believe they even made it to the cedar.

Your theory bodes well with one of the hikers that was in a different party and joined the rescue operation. He was well experienced as well, even helped Igor construct the tent and indeed mentioned this fact during the rescue operation.

The problem is that many of the rescuers and investigators qualified the fact that there was no evidence to support the avalanche theory.

Could it have happened? Sure thing. Almost anything is possible in this mystery.



Loïc 05-08-2017 16:17 (GMT)
An another i nteresting scientific article about
"electrophonic meteors and fireballs"
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2001JA000310/full
Loïc 05-08-2017 16:08 (GMT)
An interesting reading of a 2013 russian scientific article about the observation of fireballs in Russia, especially in the area of the Dyatlov Incident.
http://meetingorganizer.copernicus.org/EPSC2013/EPSC2013-42.pdf
Nigel Evans 05-08-2017 15:30 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - just a guess but i think the Soviet military know what they're about wrt to snow and avalanches, then and now.
Nigel Evans 05-08-2017 15:27 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - well if the ravine 4 received those injuries at the tent you then have to explain how these dead and dying people got down the mountain (there's no way that they walked). Then you have to explain how the footprints got there, explain how the rav 4 were buried in 4 metres of snow etc etc. So imo it's a binary thing, avalanche theory = state coverup.
Mike Smith 05-08-2017 15:03 (GMT)
Nigel, you got me thinking. 1959 Avalanche Experts and 1959 knowledge of Avalanches. I have to see if I can come up with some info on what we know and more importantly when did we know it. When we are talking a windslab on a 16-30° degree slope, we are probably not conjuring up what most people would envision as an Avalanche.
Mike Smith 05-08-2017 14:21 (GMT)
Nigel I don't think I have to go too far on the coverup front. It's a problem we still have today flipping from a rescue operation to a recovery operation. Evidence that's important to the recovery operation is not a priority for the rescue operation. For the staff in charge it looks like mismanagement. I can see where the authorities of a totalitarian regime would want to put it to rest as soon as possible. I could definitely see N. Korea using this same approach today. After all, where did they learn it from?
Nigel Evans 05-08-2017 13:56 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - The investigation claims to have used alpine experts to determine that no avalanche took place so surely the avalanche theory also requires a state sponsored cover up theory? And then you're back to asking why?
Mike Smith 05-08-2017 12:36 (GMT)
As much as I hate to admit it, raised footprints are a thing. They either happen at high altitudes or in extreme weather, which we have both. Unfortunately that brings us back to an avalanche in the form of a windslab. In mountaineering raised footprints are a sign of an avalanche danger. I know 16-30 degree slope and they are near the summit, but I'm back to not being able to ignore it. I either accept the raised footprints are real an there was a windsplab present or I say the raised footprints are fake and all other options are open.
Nigel Evans 03-08-2017 08:34 (GMT)
@Mikey :-

They went to the forest to shelter from the wind and associated wind chill. Local people reported extremely high winds that night. A temperature of -25C with high winds produces an effective wind chill temp of say -60C.

There was snow everywhere, on the ground and on the trees. Snow would reflect the light of the fire. Suggesting that they placed the fire behind the cedar to hide it is foolish. If they were escaping armed men the sensible thing would be to keep going, disperse and nominate a rendevous (perhaps the base camp).

They didn't stop at the nearest part of the forest but walked nearly twice as far (in their socks) to reach the cedar in order to observe the tent area - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-flashlight.jpg n.b. it has been established in previous posts that it is very probable that the moon hadn't risen yet and it was quite dark. So what they wanted to observe a mile back had to be illuminated in some way....

Svetlana Oss's book - "Don't go there" is an excellent piece of research with a similar conclusion to your author, which i don't agree with of course. I've also read "Dyatlov Pass Keeps it's Secrets" which is also excellent. I don't need to read a third book particularly if i already think the conclusion is nonsense.

The police investigator, Ivanov is on record as saying he thought the fireballs were connected to the deaths but was ordered to not include them in his report.
Mikey 03-08-2017 00:01 (GMT)
I understand Nigel, and your idea is warranted. The fire, according to the murders essay, the fire was built behind the cedar so as to not be so noticed by the attackers. It is well documented. Also, at first the radiated clothes in my estimation was because some of the party worked in nuclear facilities. This may not be the case. The author of the essay states that the clothes were to be distributed among the party to cover something up or to make some guilty of something.

The plan went awry where the WHOLE party had to be extinguished. The best way to make it look "natural" was to confront them at the tent, make them strip of warm clothes and send them down the hill.

This seems logical. If ball lightning were to strike the tent, most in the party would only go down the hill part of the way. If me, that would be considered a good idea until the danger passed.

Something made them walk the mile into the forest.

I implore you to read the essay with an open mind. You may not agree, but it is very thorough and also may give you new ideas to your theory. The authors investigation is VERY detailed.

Take care and have fun with it.

-Mikey
Nigel Evans 02-08-2017 08:09 (GMT)
@gz - my theory explains it from start to end. Happy

@Mikey - as i said we'll have to agree to disagree. Any theory has to explain the facts and you don't light a fire in the dark if an armed gang want you dead.
One theory for the radiation is that they visited disused mines on the trek and may have picked up some contamination from direct contact.
No i haven't read his book, have you read this thread?
Are you aware of these links i've posted before? :-
http://www.ball-lightning.info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
Mikey 02-08-2017 03:05 (GMT)
@ Nigel

Look, explanations are never perfect, you know as well as I do. Nothing is perfect here. We may never know. But, the radiation threw me for a quick moment. Obvious is obvious. I would have initially thought that because some of the party worked in a "radiated" area, it would be no problem. Normal. Some of their clothes would have traces of radiation. Sure. I really didn't think of it because some DID work in radiated areas. That was no big deal to me if I were to think of this as a "natural" problem. Hey, If you and I were to work in those areas, of course our clothes would be suspect.

But, only a FEW items were irradiated. This creates a strong possibility that certain items had radiation. I.E. if Luyda had radiation on JUST the sweater she was wearing, why not her whole clothes? Ball lightning may have incapacitated her but radiation on JUST her sweater? And we do know that sweater was given to her by someone else. No radiation was on a single bit of her other clothes. Not a single bit on her trousers, her hat, and no other clothing. Only the sweater which was not hers. And she accepted it to stay warm. She had no idea that it had radiated isotopes on it, but she wore it anyway, which each and every one of us would wear, even if we knew.

It wasn't a big deal. The radiation may have helped.

Alas, she died, not by radiation but serious wounds (as bad as some of the team, if not more) and not by ball lightning looking to kill everyone. Ball lightning is indiscriminate and would have dissipated quickly.

Maybe the ball lightning DID take out a few birds and burnt the tops of trees. I give you that. RARE, but could happen.

Nigel, you did mention that they were there to photograph the ball lightning, but no entries in diary comments prove that. If they, including myself if I were there, would have written it down that was what I was actually looking for. No mention of that. Ball lightning? I would, and you would be too, writing that down in my diary that was was what I was looking for.

It never came up.

As a result, I have to agree to disagree on your theory. I am sorry.

Have you read the thesis by A. I. Rakitin?

I did. I glomed over the politics of it a bit, but I will go over it again. I like closure. This is closure.

Nigel, you and I may not agree on what happened but it may be in your best interest to notice a different idea.

Don't hold to just one. Give yourself time. You may be surprised.

With that, I will let you go. A friend indeed who gave me an idea of what you said, but airtight? I think not. Read. Maybe you come to the same conclusion. Just be open.

Thank you Nigel. You opened my eyes more than you think.


gz 02-08-2017 02:37 (GMT)
There is no theory that explains the incident from the start to the end. At some point they all bump into something unexplainable, something that doesn't make sense and mostly it is the hikers' behaviour. I'm not a hiker or know anyone experienced at this, but to me the most weird part is the placement of the tent. Why on the mountain out in the open? The woods were so close. Don't they provide safer shelter from howling winds and possible avalanches? Why they left the tent poorly dressed and later started to remove the clothes from the dead to warm themselves? Why Y.K and Y.D died first from freezing and their comrades managed to live longer? Did they leave the tent earlier than the others? Not by a few seconds but minutes or an hour? Did Kolevatov kill Dubinina, Zolotaryov and Thibeaux as he is the only one to die from freezing in that group and others from major bone fractures? Seems like Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova were in a fight aswell, but not among themselves since Slobodin's body is in the middle of the path wichever direction they were going, and is described as the most dressed. If it was one of the outer bodies we could presume they were fighting each other for clothing. Seems like hikers indeed were going crazy and not because of hypothermia as they clearly tried to warm themselves. And maybe it all started a few days earlier and something that night scared the shit out of them that they took so many irrational decisions. I'm either thinking USSR tried some chemical weapon and Kolevatov or Zolotaryov were supposed to record its effect on their groupmates or it was Mansi spiritual orb.
Nigel Evans 01-08-2017 20:02 (GMT)
@Mikey - looks like we'll have to agree to disagree Happy

So they were forced out of the tent at gunpoint and forced to discard clothing/footwear but then allowed to disperse in the assumption that they would die of cold?

It's just rambling rubbish imo, sorry. The whole point of the lighting of the fire at the cedar is that it rules out any sentient threat.
Also the flashlight left switched on part way down the path to the cedar is assumed to be a beacon to assist the return.
Also they chose the cedar because it was the only place they could monitor the tent.

So they had to flee the tent in their socks, but expected to shortly return {before dawn, hence flashlight} but were unafraid to light a fire in the interim whilst they observed the tent waiting for this threat to go away.

You do not do those things if the threat is a group of armed men wishing you dead. The fire is the best piece of evidence to classify what the type of threat was.



It's fair comment that BL appearing at the tent and then exploding near the cedar is an ask. But then science doesn't know what BL is and what attracts or repels it. Human beings are electrical systems and their organs and blood are composed of metallic compounds (liver=copper, blood=iron}, the gases from a fire are a form of charged plasma that could have been blown towards the BL. We just don't know. And there's always pure coincidence of course.
Mikey 01-08-2017 18:28 (GMT)
Hey everybody, I FINALLY finished the "Murders" theory by A. I. Rakitin, April 2010 - November 2011 located here:" https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmurders.ru%2FDyatloff_group_1.html&edit-text=". (leave out quotations)

I must say, it is a very compelling read. The translation to english is rough but the reader can infer what the writer is trying to convey.

At first, myself as a person based in reality, I leaned toward an obvious "natural" ideal on how to look at this mystery. How in the world can EVERY person in the party come to such a horrible demise? Maybe I am naive in the fact that how can innocent people could be harmed in such a violent way? Experienced people at that. So, I opted to trust how I felt instead of leaving my eyes open to a completely foreign idea that just plain escaped me.

Nigel, I looked at your hypothesis, which would be considered natural, but as leaning toward your idea, I was still in the middle of reading the above theory. (link above) Some things still didn't add up.

The three areas of real concern are 1) The tent, 2) The cedar and 3) The ravine. Each have very peculiar circumstances involved as to what was happening to the party. Each had to have something "controlled" to make things turn out the way they did. The ball lightning idea is not "controlled" and therefore must be respectfully ruled out because in each instance, I do not believe the ball lightning followed each group in a priority to kill them.

Also, my idea of no ball lightning but natural cause and effect did not add up either. If there was no outside force "controlling" these experienced campers, somebody, if not more, would have survived. The wounds on each could NOT have been completely natural, as I have suggested, minus ball lightning. Maybe a few situations could happen to experienced campers, but NOT all.

As looking, reading and determining an airtight theory as to what happened, I believe that the A. I. Rakitin hypothesis is the most airtight as I have found.

I admit, it goes COMPLETELY against how I feel about humanity. The death of Dyatlov and his team are beyond comprehension, there was not a single ounce of compassion toward these people. Especially the women. I find that dire. Of course, that's just me. I know in history there are cases like this, but I kinda refused to actually believe people could do this.

Read the above (link) at your leisure. As I explained, the translation is rough, but understandable. The A. I. Rakitin story so far is the BEST theory I have seen so far.

Everyone take gentle care. Comments or questions are forever accepted.

Nigel Evans 01-08-2017 16:20 (GMT)
@mb - i'm getting deja vu now, must be the microwaves.

From memory my previous answer was that if i was presented with this frame with no knowledge of the dpi i could agree with you.
But i know that they cut slits in the tent and that there was a strong wind blowing snow along the ground and one camera was found inside the tent on a makeshift tripod to photograph something.
So imo it's a bit of a coincidence that this random damage that you see should look very much like an extremely bright light source illuminating horizontal snow/graupnel photographed from inside a tent slit catching the curled canvas and weave at the bottom of the frame....
mb 01-08-2017 14:15 (GMT)
Just my opinion but youve got badly damaged film exposed to the elements and water for a long period of time with some frames that look very like overexposed film, i think you have a quacks like a duck situation. This reminds me a bit of seeing orbs in photos.
mb 01-08-2017 14:10 (GMT)
Hi Mikey, you're kinda proving my point. USSR was significantly more than 'kind a police state'. It was similar to how North Korea is now. High status people were disappeared as often as nobodies, probably more so. For instance, Stalin purged hundreds of thousands of influential intellectuals, army generals, and politicians in the 30s. And Dyatlov happened at the height of Cold War paranoia. I would argue the Soviets creating a massive coverup/misdirection in order to liquidate a few students instead of just executing them out of hand is more outlandish than the yeti theory.
Nigel Evans 01-08-2017 08:09 (GMT)
If you consider the investment made into the investigation, it is very unlikely this could be a state sponsored murder. It all points to the state genuinely investigating it. But not for justice et al, but to account for the bodies to ensure no defection.
Mikey 31-07-2017 22:43 (GMT)
@mb-

Yes, the Soviet Union back then was a bit of a police state, bribes were the norm and killing off detractors without pity definitely happened.

If indeed it was the "higher-ups" who pulled this off, these hikers were pretty well-to-do. Many were in school and worked at nuclear sites as well. One has a father that was pretty high up in the Soviet establishment.

I agree that in those days, just pulling a gun and capping people did happen. This operation (if it so took place) would have to be masked as to make it look as if it were an accident so as not to raise the peoples' suspicions.

The pic that Nigel pointed to, with the three heads, yeah, it could be over exposed film but if it is a true pic of something, that something is brighter than a conventional flashlight. You can see the saturation in it.
Nigel Evans 31-07-2017 21:03 (GMT)
@mb - hi there.

1. I'm not sure you've fully considered the meaning of your photo, yes it's clear it's over exposed but it's clear what is was meant to be.... Happy
2.Now what could have been the cause of the over exposed three heads photo (i.e. assuming your point)? Because there aren't many lights that bright on the top of a siberian mountain... Unless .... Happy
mb 31-07-2017 20:07 (GMT)
@Nigel Still looks like overexposed film to me
http://tonybuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/03870005.jpg
mb 31-07-2017 20:04 (GMT)
Just to reiterate- a lot of the younger generations dont seem to understand how things were in the Soviet Union, especially in that period. If the government wanted these people dead, they would have just shot them out of hand. It happened all the time. There would be no need to hide the killings. If the KGB even had suspicions, or if you crossed the wrong politician of chekist, your life wasnt worth a nickel.
Nigel Evans 31-07-2017 19:58 (GMT)
@Mikey - "Why rip the tent?".
Because this was outside it - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-01.jpg
Mikey 31-07-2017 19:06 (GMT)
@Saturnalia- welcome and good to meet you.

Yes, the stove was not hooked up but as you can see, in your scenario, it is very hard to determine exactly what happened. Even coming barely close to an airtight theroy is difficult. Why rip the tent? Agreed, really stupid move if the bright idea was to saunter down the hill and start a bonfire. Also remember that from the tent to the cedar was about a mile. That's a hike maybe in bad weather and cold, some not fully dressed for the elements.

@Nigel- The dead birds and the tree tops singed (burnt) does give me pause. You are right. Nothing is of the ordinary here. Conventional wisdom tells us there is a true explanation but so far, it's hard to nail things down so that everything fits perfectly.
Nigel Evans 31-07-2017 15:01 (GMT)
@Mikey - also, don't forget the dead birds found nearby in the forest and the eye witness account of the other ski party (saw light then heard two explosions).
Nigel Evans 31-07-2017 14:56 (GMT)
@Mikey - "It can be considered very rare."

Well whatever happened that night is very definately in the very rare domain...
There's nothing ordinary about the DPI. Happy

I really like the following scenario for the ravine 4 :-

They're all in the den sat on their seats placed as if on the four corners of a square. NTB has his jacket unzipped and his gloves in his pocket (this is how he was found), this is because the den is warm...

Now rotate the square into a diamond so that each corner is at the cardinal point of the compass - North at the top, South at the bottom and East and West are at the same "latitude".

Now put AK at North, NTB at South and LD and SZ at East and West.

Now there's an explosion from the South that pushes the southern corner of the den towards the North. Everyone falls off their seat except AK who hits his head hard against the North corner. LD and SZ lie at the same "latitude" with their chests between the East/West latitude and the North one. Because NTB has fallen from the South position he is further down so that his head lies between the chests of LD and SZ. Now the explosion has weakened the den roof and (say) 2 tonnes of snow/ice (possibly thermally compacted) falls down on top of them with the main force between the two "latitudes" stated above. This crushes 2 chests and one skull but no limbs. Before this drop AK has bounced off the corner and the fall drives his head into his knee snapping his neck.

N.B. an explosion would explain how YK fell out of the cedar and lay unconcious and unattended for long enough to burn his leg. Maybe YD was up there as well.
Saturnalia 31-07-2017 14:46 (GMT)
My opinion of most likely events:
"Group was sleeping in the tent in the very early morning around 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. and everybody was miserably cold. Someone had a bright idea, let’s head down to the tree line and start a big fire."

There might be some truth in this in my opinion.
Hypothermia makes you undress, but some individuals might also panic. It depends of the individual. When you realize you are dying it can make you freak out. This was the first night without stove on, if i understand correctly. They went into light hypothermia, and some of them started to panic or get aggressive. Yelling and punching, perhaps. They could not light up the stove because there was no firewood around.

This was their biggest mistake, not collecting firewood before the dark. Some members were propably quite comfortable still and wanted to continue sleeping, but some others, at least one member, went into hypothermia and started to behave aggressively demanding that they should walk down to collect firewood. Of course this theory has holes in it too. Why cut the tent? Totally stupid move. At least one of them must have been pretty out of control to do that. Like he wanted rest of them to die, cutting the tent in anger.

Another one is of course why not to dress up fully for the trip down? It's just crazy move. It's hard to think that they did this because their hypothermia was so far developed. It's not impossible though. Main question remains: this was their first night without stove on, and without collecting firewood for it. Why? God damn, why?
Experienced hikers. Preparing to sleep in subzero conditions without heat and if i understand, without proper modern sleeping bags. It just buzzles me.

They possibly thought they can handle it well enough. Most of them possibly did, but somebody of the did not. In the army it never was that the whole tent was complaining about the cold, it was usually one individual. Others were coping with it just about.
Mikey 30-07-2017 20:27 (GMT)
The ravine/den boggles my mind. The two at the cedar dying of hypothermia and the three trying to get back to the tent are completely explainable, if you think about natural causes. A fire at -17C (1.4F) would give you hard luck to warm yourself. It's virtually impossible with cold wind, snow, frozen ground etc...

The ravine/den is a different can of worms.

(1)Ball lightning is a possibility but with all due respect to Nigel, it can be considered very rare to incapacitate four people other than exploding. It can be considered very rare.

(2)All four fell into the ravine/den at certain close intervals (snow giving way) and fell on top of each other. All were pretty much incapacitated and as we know, they were carrying firewood at the time, which may explain the building of the floor, but who was well enough to do that? Maybe the floor was built first and they went out to collect more wood and fell in afterward?

(3) Somebody else was there with combat training and knew how to take them all out quickly? Lyudmila missing tongue (maybe bit off during fall) may have been so outspoken that the attacker decided to chop her tongue to shut her up?

If I am missing something, please add to it.

But, with those three possibilities, I would opt for the more natural that they all fell in on top of each other and gained a whole world of hurt all the way around.

This of course is not to take away from Nigel's theroy, but the ball lightning is not only possible, but a rare occurrence.

In a group, in the dark, carrying firewood and not sure of footfalls, one falls in, the next falls, foot lands on someone's head, cracks skull with ball of foot, the next falls face forward on top and breaks ribs and the next falls sideways onto the rest and breaks ribs on one side. Not in that order of course.

Something to contemplate if you were to look at a natural way.

Sure, we can throw the Yeti and/or UFO's into the mix but I sure don't wish to go that route. All three are plausible and would NOT discount them.

Again, if I am missing another idea, please share. I'm open to all opinions.
Nigel Evans 30-07-2017 07:52 (GMT)
@Mike Smith - the stove wasn't used that night, they didn't carry firewood with them, just the axes to collect it locally. Imo it was a deliberate choice to camp higher than the treeline, the reason being to photograph the lights close up.
@Mike Smith/@TP - the question isn't why weren't the footprints covered in snowfall (very windy) but how did these prints survive the wind for over three weeks? There are clues that the snow was warmer that night and closer to it's melt point. This would create a much firmer footprint that when it refroze could survive for that period. Clues are :-
1. Hot spot.
2. Most of the group suffered very little or no frostbite. How come in -25C with a wind chill at say -60C?
3. The best explanation i have for the ravine deaths is that the den collapsed on top of them. This theory involves the snow softening with heat which would greatly increase it's weight and reduce it's structural integrity.
Cause of the warming = the cause of the ball lightning = microwaves.

Also regarding the "murder theory", LD, SZ and NTB were killed by a force of super human strength. LD and SZ's fractures apparently would need a fall of 60 feet. But neither suffered any other fractures or bruising. It would be quite improbable for one person to exhibit this profile, for two to do so rules out falling imo. They were crushed imo.
TP 30-07-2017 01:11 (GMT)
Hi Guys, I too am very dubious regarding the footprints. It is entirely logical that after, even a few days, these would be covered.

The initial investigation at the sight gives us some idea but how can we interpret those initial findings? How accurate were they? I think they add to the problem of this mystery.
Mike Smith 29-07-2017 22:26 (GMT)
Sorry I haven't made my way through all of the comments yet. The incident happened on the night of Feb 1. Near as I can tell the footprints started being found on Feb 25th? That's 24 days later: 3 weeks and 3 days. Am I the only one that find this a bit odd. I would have thought with all the talk of bad weather, these footprints would have been obliterated in a 3rd of that time.
Mike Smith msmith63@gmail.com 29-07-2017 20:22 (GMT)
Glad I found your website. I more of a fan of the down to earth theories than those of the fantastic. The two that stick out in my head is 1) something went wrong with the stove. What I've read the normal egress through the tent flap was a rather convoluted and involved process with lots of fasteners and an overlaying sheet. 2) a fight or argument within the group got rather heated and one of the contenders decided he/she needs a bit of fresh air. Anyone that witnessed a heated argument can contest that rationality is the 1st to depart.
Nigel Evans 29-07-2017 11:46 (GMT)
@Mikey - glad you like it but SZ being a KGB minder doesn't clash with the BL theory. They were sent there to photograph the lights without realising these things are dangerous and can kill.
James 29-07-2017 04:24 (GMT)
Robs comments are crap. Skip his comments if you are starting from the bottom of the page and reading up. He keeps asking for an answer to the same question when he was provided with a decent answer. It will save you some time
Rick 29-07-2017 01:16 (GMT)
@Mikey... I am not a world history buff. I do not know much of my Canadian history let alone the rest of the world. Unfortunately, I have read the tent is long gone. We have no idea if it was truly slashed from inside. From the remaining final photos of them digging in for the tent, it was very terrible weather. I don't see anyone wishing to attack in those conditions. (Peace time as well, no war). Running or walking to the trees without full attire is mind boggling. Obviously, they feared something. (Getting dressed in pitch black is not easy either.) I heard the ravine was about a 24 foot fall? Hitting rocks from that height would surely cause serious injuries.
Mikey 28-07-2017 23:25 (GMT)
Above all, I so enjoy an open forum. This way we can bounce many ideas off each other. Very nice.
Mikey 28-07-2017 23:17 (GMT)
@Nigel

I never thought of that concept! Just saw your post and it is very interesting. Sasha being used to PROTECT the team and ultimately failed. That is different from the ball lightning idea. I like the way you think!

Mikey 28-07-2017 23:12 (GMT)
Now, to everyone, I'm not saying that politics had ANYTHING to do with this. These "kids" although very adroit at "vacations" have political ideals, as we ALL do. Here in the Americas, we do have open dialog these days. We do have problems with those who go off the reservation as well. Also remember, back in 1959 and such years, things were very contentious. We in America had McCarthyism and the Soviets had Perestroika. Not the same, but still a persecution ideal.

I don't believe this is political, BUT it would match the fact that no items were stolen, no monies stolen, only lives. This could include the military. The thing is that someone would have yapped about it. Ben Franklin once said that three people can keep a secret as long as two are dead.

Nothing has come out of anything like that.

This team had been around the block. If you were to go hiking or camping, and you were a novice, you would ask ANY of them to go along and teach you what they know. Young and impressionable? YES. but they KNEW what they were doing.

Political? Inside job? Maybe, but I doubt it. Nobody pulls this off without somebody yapping about it. Sure, the Soviets were VERY secretive but after years and years, somebody should have come forward.

My compliments to both Nigel and Rick. Very good ideas, but I am not sure. I enjoy a good mystery and this is good. Not to take away from the plight of those who met their demise, which is a horrible outcome, but to offer new ideas as to what may have happened.

Thank you all for allowing me to post. I enjoy this forum.
Nigel Evans 28-07-2017 23:08 (GMT)
@Rick - i think it's generally accepted that Zolatarev was a KGB minder assigned to the party by the Soviet hierarchy who declined permission to travel for one of the original university group in order to fit him in. If so his mission was to protect them and ensure their safe return and possibly..... to photograph the DPI lights with an extra camera carried especially for this purpose.
Mikey 28-07-2017 22:42 (GMT)
@Rick-

I was thinking about the "Sasha" Zolatarev inside job idea. He was certainly political. He survived the Great Patriotic War, which was no small feat. Politics in the former Soviet bloc were crazy back then. Many different factions and different ideas. They still are to this day. Communism v/s socialism v/s fascism still run true in Russia. Back then, in 1959, the cold war with the U.S., many military were indoctrinated into different facets of socialism/communism. Many people came out of that with vile hatred toward freedom and individualism. Everybody had to be the same in many brainwashed eyes.

Wether "Sasha" Zolatarev was an "infiltrator" and joined the group to kill over politics may remain to be seen. He was killed rather harshly as well in the ravine. Ribs broken as Lyudmila Dubinina was as well.

Lyudmila enjoyed the company of older people and hung out with them much more often.

"Sasha" Zolatarev is dead, almost the same as she died. Whatever political (and if anything it would be political or military being no valuables were taken) differences, I don't think Sasha Zolatarev would pull something like this.

Agreed, he is a trained killer, but not like that. Plus, he is dead, and done in in an awful way.

Something else happened in that ravine.

Great call Rick, I thought about it as well. With all our ideals, maybe we can figure out an airtight solution to what happened.

Take care my friend.

Rick 28-07-2017 20:56 (GMT)
MAYBE. "Sasha" Zolatarev was sent in to murder. Possibly these young people were future "problems" for the USSR. and they had to be eliminated. Has anyone given the Zolatarev family the 3rd degree? So many un-answered questions. It is unusual Zolatarev would be interested in being chummy with University students. With 2 of the young people with broken knuckles, it is possible the were fighting for their lives. With no evidence of knife wounds to anyone. Zolatatev could easily knife anyone in a closed in tent....the more one thinks of this case, the more it baffles Happy
Mikey 28-07-2017 16:33 (GMT)
Hi Nigel, so very nice to meet you. I have not thrown out the idea of ball lightning. It is very, very plausible. Matter of fact, as an experienced camper up and down the east coast and here in Florida, I have encountered many different things at night. I'm sure you probably have too. Wild hogs, deer, stray dogs, even the occasional lost camper in the middle of the night can make your hair stand on end. Those things are almost normal though. Encountering an actual squatch would be a different story. As for ball lightning coming close or even entering the tent would make me go bonkers! Apparently it is quite rare that something like that would happen. Metal items in a tent or even a metal based tent sealer (back then it is not out of the question) could very well attract such phenomenon. This, you are correct.

Yes, it has been said that ball lightning is very well known in that area. The Mansi have it in their lore. I am more inclined to lean toward your theroy than most others. That would terrify me! A Yeti would too, but that is HIGHLY improbable.

Something did happen though. I don't know if they RAN down the hill or WALKED. Some reports say that they walked almost single-file, straying a little, but wound up at the cedar tree. Unfortunately the investigation was not completely conclusive in that matter. Wind swept snow could cover many traces as to whether they were dragging feet, jumping, meticulous and such with their footfalls. Any ideas on that Nigel? It could prove very important.

Thanks for your answer, and as to posting here, I agree, let us all be considerate. No reason to be angry because we all have opinions and each one have merit because NOBODY really knows EXACTLY what happened unless someone here comes up with an airtight theroy. With this mystery, it is very hard to do. Take care.

Nigel Evans 28-07-2017 09:43 (GMT)
@KP - thanks for the support, "it took me all night" - looks like you've been hooked by the DPI, join the club! Happy. As you say lets keep it polite, we'll never know for certain what killed them, although i believe science will in the future have an explanation for these lights which will either support my theory or otherwise. Investigations at Hessdalen look promising.

@Mikey - imo they intentionally went to the cedar in order to observe the tent to return when the threat had gone. The base camp was around the mountain and didn't have any clothing or boots, it was mainly a food store (55kg) for the return journey. Everything they needed to survive the cold was in the tent. It all fits with the photos attributed to SZ showing the light moving across the sky. Imo the three heads photo is it coming to rest outside of the tent. So it was a reasonable assumption for them that it would soon be on it's way. However the metal objects in the tent perhaps acted as attractions and it didn't move requiring them to extend their stay at the cedar and build a fire and then a den.
Mikey 28-07-2017 01:45 (GMT)
I will say this, if I may... I think the avalanche theory is out the window. These hikers/skiers were very talented in this type of excursion. Even the gals survived a gunshot and a snakebite doing things like this. I have no reason to believe the guys didn't know what they were doing either. Very skilled team. They wouldn't scare very easily. They encountered something of sheer terror to make them cut up their only tent and leave so quickly, wearing no shoes or hardly any warm outer clothing. Something REALLY bad happened in the camp area. Their storage was off to the right (if looking downhill) a number of meters away, but they opted for down the hill in a different direction.

That said, I think they ALL made it down safely to the cedar tree in good condition, although very cold with all the bumps, bruises, scrapes and wounds that go along with a normal hiking trip. We ALL get the normal bumps, scrapes and bruises when we go camping. It happens. Fish hook in the eyeball and whatnot...lol... BUT I do think they made it to the cedar tree pretty safely. Even started a fire using wet wood, enough to burn themselves a bit.

Whatever the case may be as to WHY they left the security of the tent and did NOT go toward the salvation of their storage will probably be constant speculation. Whatever terror they encountered, I don't think it hurt them physically in any way.

I think I will start my hypothesis at the cedar tree...

And again, thank you for letting me post!
Mikey 28-07-2017 01:12 (GMT)
What a compelling story. I have read many theroys here in the comment section and I may have a few myself. I am currently reading "Murders" by one A. I. Rakitin, located HERE:" https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmurders.ru%2FDyatloff_group_1.html&edit-text=" In his/her synopsis and investigation it is gratifying to actually read about the investigation, the actual autopsies, and other things that are reported incorrectly on this matter. It was quite well done. Thanks for allowing me to post and I hope to join the conversation soon.
KP 28-07-2017 00:05 (GMT)
Nigel,

It took me all night but I read through every single comment posted here. Your theory is the only theory I've read that makes sense on all account. I've enjoyed reading what you have to say and even when you were attacked by someone who clearly had different, strong opinions you remained polite and respectful. This is such an interesting and sad story. Thank you for sharing your theory and thoughts.
KP 27-07-2017 23:58 (GMT)
@ tp

The foot prints tell a different story. A) there would have been some form of evident that he had followed the group back. B) the footbrints to the cedar indicate that they walked in an orderly fashion--not that the ran fleeing for their lives.

If I was trying to escape someone who was trying to murder me I would not go start a fire to show them where I am located.
Nigel Evans 27-07-2017 09:43 (GMT)
@TP - he would have to achieve all of that without leaving any footprints...
TP 26-07-2017 23:41 (GMT)
Has anyone substantiated the claims of Yuri Yudin? Did he actually leave the others and did he return to where he said he was going? My theory is this- and much more simple than any ''paranormal activity'' or strange phenomena.
Yuri Yudin was obsessed with one of the women. He may have very well wanted to leave the group but came back and followed them. First, without them knowing he was there, he tormented them and scared them. I believe forensics were incorrect regarding the cuts to the tent. I believe this was done from the outside. The killer would have been in a rage. The hikers fled in a massive panic. The brutality done to Lyudmila Dubinina was an act of a spurned would be lover. He took out the worst atrocities on her. The others were killed in a homicidal rage. The bruising to the skin and slightly deeper layers did not show due to the freezing snow and low temps. Two of the men had been exposed to radiation before and explains any read outs. The truth is much more simple. This was an act of murder.
Nigel Evans 25-07-2017 10:47 (GMT)
@Rick - the problem with the fight theory is that it doesn't fit with the evidence :-

1. why leave the tent without footwear/outer clothing?
2. why abandon the tent at all in favour of the forest but climb a tree to observe the tent and leave a flashlight turned on part way on the journey presumably to assist a return?
3. injury profile requires superhuman strength, pathologist says like in a car accident or bomb shockwave.
Rick 25-07-2017 01:41 (GMT)
Been looking into this since 2103. Yes the Russian authorities were very closed in info. I believe it was a fight of some sort between the guys. Irritability. Tired. Short tempered. I have been in Temperatures of -25. I am Canadian. Our Northern winters are similar. It is no picnic when you have wet cold feet and hands. These "kids" were still young however educated they were. They were still somewhat immature. And possibly a moment of temper(s) Cost them their lives. An intriguing mystery to say the least!!
Nigel Evans 14-07-2017 11:05 (GMT)
@Carol - if you're interested, Svetlana Oss has translated the pathologist's reports and you can get them from amazon.
I can't see any mention of X-rayed limbs. But the examinations of the skull and the chest/abdomen seems thorough enough and any gross deformity of the limbs would be obvious? So we're still left with a strong force that can snap multiple ribs on multiple fracture lines but not appear to affect the arms or collar bones?
Carol 13-07-2017 16:50 (GMT)
A few more comments on the injuries. Multiple rib fractures are very frequently NOT associated with bruises or external signs even in the presence of blunt trauma. Lung problems but not rib fractures are associated with blasts. The skull fracture in the den was associated with contact with a blunt object e.g. rock or tree limb but not necessarily used as a weapon - contact could had been accidental. Without further information, I think Ludmilla's tongue was post mortem. During blunt trauma people sometimes sustain a tongue laceration from biting and this may have lead to earlier decomposition. I don't think the medical examiner X-rayed their extremities. In some cases an injury from a fall creates fractures without real gross deformity unless you are looking for them. The same is true for lumbar compression fractures. Also I can't tell how deep the knuckle scuffs were on the people who had them.
Joel Moma 10-07-2017 15:45 (GMT)
Didn't y'all see the Devils Pass movie. It's all explained, lol.
(Actually is a pretty interesting movie, follows the facts up until........)
Stevie 09-07-2017 05:53 (GMT)
Could the missing flesh be attributed to scavaging animals? And is it possible that in hypothermia delirium that someone was so confused that they attacked and killed the others?
Stevie 09-07-2017 05:51 (GMT)
All I can think is a bear or a yeti. Could the clothes have been hanging from a branch in an attempt to dry them out? Was there any reports of a snow storm that may have prevented them from finding their original shelter?
Nigel Evans 06-07-2017 12:51 (GMT)
@Jeff - thanks for clarifiying. The problem with the snow slide theory is that the force required to create the ravine injuries would surely have resulted in other fractures, but none exist. No broken arms or legs, not even a broken collar bone. The force was both strong and very targeted. Barotrauma can perhaps explain the profile with no bruising but that is always attended with burst lungs/ear drums which are not found here.
A crushing force through a layer of snow (small collapse followed by a big collapse) could explain the lack of bruising and the targeting nature.
jeff 05-07-2017 18:31 (GMT)
My apologies for mixing in what I thought was a real investigation and was just tv drama. ALSO I would like to make a substitution of SnowSlide in place of avalanche
Nigel Evans 02-07-2017 07:03 (GMT)
@Dynalee10 - in general the bodies had abrasions and bruises but three of the ravine dead - LD, SZ, NTB did not have any bruising to explain their extensive fractures.
Dynalee10 01-07-2017 19:40 (GMT)
I keep reading that they claimed no external injuries on most of the hikers then the autopsy lists all kinds of external injuries . I find it very inconsistent .
Nigel Evans 01-07-2017 13:43 (GMT)
Surfing around for a possible cause of these large scale microwave fields i've found this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossed-field_amplifier The idea seems to have legs, the wind+snow creates free electrons (like with lightning and thundersnow) and circulates them in vortexes as it passes over the undulating terrain. Then all you seem to need is a magnetic field and you're amplifying background radiation perhaps? Wrt the mag field i remember reading that in the cold war the Soviets tried to build a radar complex in this region but had to abandon it due interference with local magnetic fields presumably from metallic ore deposits.
Hessdalen is an ore rich region...
Nigel Evans 01-07-2017 11:32 (GMT)
@jeff - i don't understand the Mike Libecki point?
jeff 30-06-2017 21:32 (GMT)
so I boil this down to maybe a slight lean towards an infra sound event causing disorientation and maybe a small avalanche. What I wanted to say is I watch Mike Libecki go to the snow cave, NO trap cameras, NO FLIR, NO drones, so, at that point all of his investigation I was only along just for the drama, no actual evidence.
Nigel Evans 30-06-2017 19:23 (GMT)
@mb - from my googling of microwave burns the pain develops slowly. This would explain how YK got down the slope before the pain was making him bite the backs of his hands off (in my theory).
mb 30-06-2017 19:16 (GMT)
Microwave radiation in this context you would expect damage to all areas of exposed skin, and hence you would expect the victims to be desperate to cover their faces especially. I dont know that there is evidence of that. I'll leave it to the medical expert, but I would expect to see things like blistering rather than bruising, as its literally a burn caused by the water in the tissue being super heated.
And the physics of microwave radiation cause radically different affect depending on the frequency. Frequencies that would damage organs might have no effect on the skin at all, and vice versa.
Nigel Evans 30-06-2017 09:56 (GMT)
@Carol - hi, i definately would be interested in hearing more from someone such as yourself with a lifetimes experience in trauma injuries. Todate the discussion has been limited by everyone is a medical layman, so we can only ask the questions but not supply the answers.

But to answer your post, you refer to Rustem several times but the more interesting cases surely are LD, SZ and NTB. N.B. NTB's injuries were more severe than given on this website, the base of the skull was also cracked right across.
But for all three the big anomaly has to be that they don't display any bruising to explain the fractures?

My favourite theory is that the whole mountain was witihn a microwave field and that the bruising on the face and hands is consistent with radiation burns. There's empirical evidence in other cases that this burning is also connected with ball lightning, which i presume to be an effect of the microwave field.

I think it's generally accepted that ID died of hypothermia (bladder had 1 litre of urine) but he may be the only one?
Carol 29-06-2017 17:20 (GMT)
Really like this website. Very informative. I have worked with trauma patients of all kinds for about 40 years (its my job). I have some thoughts on the patterns of trauma seen in these individuals.

First of all explosion: There are three major mechanisms for explosive trauma to humans. Overpressure: this high pressure wave extends outward from the primary area. As a rule if one person in an area dies from this type of trauma, the others are at equal risk. A tent would not provide protection. Typical of over pressure injuries are blast lung (bloody pulmonary edema, perforated bowel. Cerebral edema but no skull fractures. Perforated eardrums. Usually a pressure wave in air causes lung and brain trauma, while one in water causes bowel injuries.
Shrapnel causes penetrating injuries not really seen here.
Injuries from being thrown. Can cause blunt trauma seen here, but the blunt injuries of Rustem and the lower four individuals did not occur at the same time. (I agree that their injuries would have significantly impaired mobility.
A very powerful blast may create a "wind" effect which tends to dismember by tearing off legs etc.

Next hypothermia: As hypothermia progresses two behavioral changes occur which might have affected some of the findings. First: paradoxical undressing-in the last stages of activity during severe hypothermia, the patient begins to feel warm and sometimes attempts to remove his clothes. I wonder if this occurred with dyatlov. It might also explain the position of his arms if he was trying to unbutton things. Also confusion sets in. Even experienced decision makers are unable to think logically. I would expect that at least some of the actions to be illogical and disorganized.
Skull fractures: to me it looks like two very specific mechanisms. Rustem would have impacted a flat or irregular surface, while the injury lower down the slope is compatible with a very localized blow or Impact
Fight injuries The knuckle injuries on Dyatlov and Rustem are compatible with a fight as well as the superficial facial injuries on Rustem. If Rustem's injuries were from being rolled around or some other thing, i wound expect cuts and bruises on all sides of the head as well as on other body parts.
Hope this is interesting.
Nigel Evans 28-06-2017 13:16 (GMT)
@Jack - it's worth adding that the dead birds fit an explosion theory which could be the cause of the collapse or indeed punched part of the snowbank in. The explosion theory could help explain another curiousity - that each of the ravine four and possibly RS as well only receive one serious injury. So the force has to be both strong enough to crush bone but limited to a specific area and quite weak outside of it. The ravine injuries are fascinating, no bruising over the fractures and in each case only one part of the body receives a crushing force. It's my guess that the den would insulate them from the normal consequences of an explosion - e.g. burst lungs/eardrums.
Jack 27-06-2017 18:24 (GMT)
@Nigel
Thanks, I now have a better understanding of the den. If the den collapsed, that would have sucked big time.
Nigel Evans 27-06-2017 16:57 (GMT)
@Jack - my understanding is like this - http://pbskids.org/nova/denali/snowcave.html
Jack 27-06-2017 13:44 (GMT)
I was just wondering if I could get some clarification on the den and what it was. Also, This mystery is very creepy, I wish there were more pictures of the den since zolotaryov had a camera after the fleeing of the tent.
Frank 26-06-2017 01:21 (GMT)
That is Creepy!!!!!!!
Nigel Evans 11-06-2017 00:27 (GMT)
@Loic - thanks for the link. The author has a similar theory to myself. Although I would favour microwaves over higher energies.
Loïc 10-06-2017 07:49 (GMT)
I've found this website with an interesting explanation of the glowing balls seen in the area :
- natural and massive electrical discharge
Interesting to read
https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1
Loïc 08-06-2017 19:59 (GMT)
Congrats for the authors of this very informative website about this tragedy !
I've discovered this case 2 years ago while watching the Discovery TV "documentary" about the russian Yeti...

I've read lot a stuff about this mystery and for me the most convincing theory is a king of lightning ball.

Probably the geology of the area generate magnetic anomalies, coupling with the particular shape of the mountain creating vortex winds, made the perfect conditions to create reccurent lightning bowls.

They were probably awaken by a massive orange glowing orb next the tent. They cut the tent to see it, try to photograph (tripod) but understand rapidly that is was a kind of electrical phenomena.
They leave in a hurry the tent regarding the presence of the metallic Stove.

During their run, maybe they were (nearly?) hit by this lightning ball and have to left the metallic flaslight.

They wait under the Cedar. They climb the tree to watch the glowing ball still standind near the tent, too long to recover themself from hypothermia.
4 tried to make a den but they were to injured to survive.
At last, this electrical phenomena disapeared and the 3 survivors try to reach the tent but they were too exhausted...

A uncompelling natural force...
MB 08-06-2017 13:41 (GMT)
Doesnt explain why they cut their way out of the tent from the inside.
SCHAFFAAAA 07-06-2017 22:52 (GMT)
My opinion of most likely events:
Group was sleeping in the tent in the very early morning around 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. and everybody was miserably cold. Someone had a bright idea, let’s head down to the tree line and start a big fire. Everyone was in agreement. Being overconfident, they didn’t dress very warm but just wanted to get moving and maybe the temperature was not so bad outside ~5 degrees F, not wanting to try to get properly dressed in the darkness with just a flashlight or 2 with 9 people in a small tent they said screw it, I am going how I am, get down fast and make a nice hot fire and I am going to cut my way out, the tent needs sewing anyways (maybe the fireplace was in the way of the entrance?). They made it down to the tree line and making a fire was not as easy as everyone thought. The wind started to really pick-up and the temperature dropped. Some guys climbed the tree trying to get some dry firewood and ended up getting cold and no able to get back down and eventually fell. The group split some tried to make it back to the fire and some tried to get down lower to build a shelter. The ones who tried to make a shelter either fell down the ravine or a big portion of the ravine caved in a brought a heavy massive amounts of snow on them.
Lightning 07-06-2017 16:21 (GMT)
Hessdalen lights have never exploded or left any burn marks. That means they are not electrically charged and are so called cold plasma (plasma thats near room temperature, little amount of atoms ionized). But it can glow as much bright as thermal plasma.

Nigel Evans 02-06-2017 13:14 (GMT)
Ooops - http://virtoo.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/D0006.jpg
Nigel Evans 02-06-2017 10:45 (GMT)
the smiley in the last post was unintended.
Nigel Evans 02-06-2017 10:44 (GMT)
Here's a photo of the den i haven't seen before, just adding it for the record.
http://virtoo.ru/almanach/nepoznannoe/pereval-dyatlova.html @mkk - the photos do display water damage on top of an exposed image as i would expect. Eagle has water damage, whatever chicken was has been obliterared by water damage. I cannot see any water damage on three heads. That's the original exposure imo.

@Saturnalia - there's nothing supernatural about ball lightning, it's a rare natural phenomena that has attracted theories from very eminent physicists. For conventional BL there seem to be two types, 1. glowing shells typically produced from lightning strikes that hover close to the ground and don't last long, say 90 seconds. 2 - lights in the sky that last for several hours, these lights are larger (hessdalen - "as big as a barn"Winking and are diffuse glowing objects. The dp lights seem to be of the second type.
However there are other classifications were it gets fairly spooky :-
http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Vampires.html http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Black_Dogs.html
Saturnalia 02-06-2017 07:37 (GMT)
Nothing supernatural happened. That's the way i see this case. Somebody flipped out inside the tent and slashed it open. Propably some kind of panic attack, some people have those. That tent was quite hell to be inside. It was claustrofobic, loud and cold inside. Wind banged it like sail. I dunno how well that particular canvas breathed. If not well, then nine people inside that small tent is gonna cause some carbon dioxide problems. People have suffocated inside their tents while sleeping. That mountainside was crazy place to put your tent on, they must have had some spesific reason to do so. Ravine lower down would have been much better choice. Firewood, stream, much less wind, level ground, out of sight, etc. They did not care that it was gonna get bit extreme, high self-confidence. They propably did not use the stove because there was no firewood anywhere close. After the tent was slashed, it was all downhill from there, their rationality suffered somehow. Leaving the boots behind is mad, that is the part i just can not understand. It was crazy move, but they did it. Somehow there was no going back to tent. Ball lightnings etc last only a moment. This threat lasted long time. Was it so dark they could not find the tent anymore? Does not sound convincing. On the other hand, snow storm at night...you don"t really see much, moonlight is not there. I try to think this without supernatural explanation. Somebody had a panic attack inside the tent, they had a small fight, etc.
Thomas Whiteside 02-06-2017 03:05 (GMT)
@mkk totally agree it'd be much better so have access to the uncropped damaged photos.

I'm not expert on water damaged film either, but my reading suggests black and white film will be damaged in a variety of ways, depending on the time under water and how it's treated during the drying out / processing stage.

A quick google image search of water damaged film does bring up some examples with big white patches, though i agree they tend to be more streaky / linear and are somewhat different to the 'flashes' on Sasha's film.

Re winding the film, I'm not 100% sure but I think Sasha was using a Zorki 1 rangefinder camera, and as far as I can work out there's nothing unique on this camera with regard to winding the film back into the canister. If you wanted to unload the film in an everyday situation, you'd just hit and switch and then turn the rewind spool until the film came off the advance spool. The other option would be to unload the film without rewinding the pool in a dark room. My guess is you'd do the later in this case, because there'd be less risk of damaged the film further in the rewinding process. Can't see why there'd be any need to finish off the roll of film before unloading it. Though maybe that's a quirk of this camera?
mkk 01-06-2017 23:01 (GMT)
About Zolotaryov's camera and the uncertain pictures...

I don't know anything about film and stuff, so I googled it a little. It seems that water damage wouldn't result in random bits of the film being exposed (like all the "white blob" pics). Whatever was exposed would stay, but the picture might look a bit blurry or muddy or something.

Here are a couple links to photographers who actually soak their film in various liquids (saltwater, orange juice, wine, etc) to get interesting effects.
https://www.lomography.com/magazine/186270-destroying-film-to-play-with-color http://blog.freepeople.com/2015/06/diy-film-soaking/ The above use color film, but there doesn't seem to be anything about B&W that would cause it to work much differently.
http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?threads/film-and-water.45669/ (I'm not sure whether these links will be clickable, but you can copy & paste.)

The other suggestion I've read is that the person who recovered the camera & removed the film had to "use up" the remaining film in the lab in order to remove it from the camera. I don't understand why this would be. The old cameras i remember simply had a little knob that flipped out so you could wind up the film back into the roll before you took it out and put in a new roll. There's no reason you'd have to completely expose the film first. As a matter of fact, since the camera & film had been wet, I'd imagine that the developer wouldn't want to roll it back up at all before developing it because that might cause further damage to the film.

So, in spite of the strangeness of the photos, I can't find a good reason to discount them entirely.

Most of the pics on this site from his camera seem to be close-ups of small parts of the photographs. Is there any way to see the actual photographs, full-size, without cropping?
Nigel Evans 01-06-2017 13:29 (GMT)
@MB - i'd agree that you can't beat a photograph Happy
MB 01-06-2017 13:23 (GMT)
Especially like them Winking Just kidding, i'm not at all saying this event isnt related to something similar. I am saying human beings are awful eye witnesses, by and large. Memory is unreliable and easily influenced. Pictures of footprints and cuts in a tent are pieces of evidence that cant be refuted. Human reports are... more nuanced. Add that to the fact that lights in the sky are very common- and 'new' lights in the sky were common in the era of the early cold war, and i think you have to treat the reports of lights with some question that they are necessarily related.
Nigel Evans 31-05-2017 21:21 (GMT)
@MB - like the scientists investigating Hessdalen?
MB 31-05-2017 18:25 (GMT)
I dont discount the idea of some sort of storm/electrical anomaly, but on the other hand, people see lights in the sky all the time. Particularly when some mystery is in the offing.
Nigel Evans 31-05-2017 17:50 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside - ok we'll have to disagree. But i'd be interested in hearing from a relevant expert how 3 months under the snow can result in two different frames - Three heads and Eagle looking exactly like i would expect from an approaching GLO. That's one hell of a coincidence from random water damage. My only concern wrt these photos is that they are so good they could be fabricated as they seem to have just appeared on the scene many years later.

Wrt the witnessed lights, there were three reports from different highly dependable witnesses over three months including the rescue/investigative team itself who even radioed HQ over concerns for their safety. I'll agree that there's a question mark over the date of the ski party sighting (different sources disagree), but there is no question of the veracity of the three events from Jan to March 1959. Adding this to the fact that the Mansi have a pagan religion built around these lights (Golden Lady) and a more recent expedition recorded a light event that lasted over four hours and i think it's fair to say that the ball lightning theory has a basis in fact. The lights are real.

.. and there's no other theory for the DPI that fits all the facts...
Lightning 31-05-2017 12:33 (GMT)
Does this book explains dead birds, hot spot near tent, why the snow near tent and den was hard like a rock, why tree tops had burnt tops, why footprints look like they have been left on wet snow (it was at least -30 at that night)? If it doesn't, then it can't be called a book and it's not worth reading.
Thomas Whiteside 31-05-2017 11:28 (GMT)
@Lightning The 'Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret' book goes into quite a lot of detail about the other supposed witnesses to the lights in the sky, and quite convincingly dispels this well known myth, pointing out that the other reports of lights related to another incident some distance away, a whole two weeks later. I don't have the book with my right now, but I'm happy to elaborate later.

@Nigel Evans I'm afraid I think what you're describing is paradelia. I simply don't see what you're seeing re the 'three heads' photo. These photos all come from a camera that spend three months under snow and water. No wonder they're damaged / light exposed. Additionally, much seems to be made about the camera being left cocked. Zorkis (and all russian viewfinders of that era) had famously fickle speed dials; the shutter must be cocked before the dial is adjusted. For this reason most users kept them cocked to avoid damaging the camera accidentally if the dial was knocked or adjusting without thinking.
Lightning 30-05-2017 16:45 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside- You are not convinced by 10s another witnesses who saw those lights?
Nigel Evans 30-05-2017 16:44 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside - the three heads works for me, undulating canvas at the bottom with the weave letting the intense light through, snow/graupnel passing in front of the light illuminated for the duration of the shot, the snow even repeatedly modulating as it rotates in high winds. There's too much that's right for it to be random damage?
Lightning 30-05-2017 16:44 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside- "Snow slip" theory doesn't make any sense. If it was powerful enough to cause injuries comparable to a car crash it would definetely crushed a dent and it would not be still secured on ground. Besides investigators would have noticed if there was any big chunk of ice or snow.
Thomas Whiteside 30-05-2017 16:22 (GMT)
Sorry, just to be clear. My commentary is based on a rejection of the massive bright lights in the three heads or eagle light photos etc. actually depicting a light show. I'm still not convinced they are of much meaning; they appear to be imperfections / damage to the film. It's not hard to get freaky looking things on damaged 35mm.

However, if you do think they depict a massive light event; then sure, I agree there'd be enough light to take some photos. My below commentary is based on there being normal night lighting conditions, including a good moon or a torch or two.
Thomas Whiteside 30-05-2017 16:09 (GMT)
The book goes through a bunch of various theories very nicely pointing to their strengths and weaknesses, then the author conclude my positing their own theory re the 'snow slip'. This theory is different still very different to the avalanche theory; a snow slip being a large chunk of ice / snow becoming dislodged rather than a full on avalanche. The idea is it hit only part of the tent; injuring some but not all etc. Theory posits those with broken ribs and cracked skulls were sufficiently mobile to be walked out but weren't much use beyond that etc. Anyway, I'm not here to argue big picture; more interested in the cameras right now.

I don't think it being a relatively bright night etc. overcomes the need for very good light to get a decent exposure. They are using flashless cameras, and flow speed film (I assume 100 or 200 ISO/ASA - 400 ISO/ASA didn't really come out until the early 70s).

Also, can you tell me what type of Zorkis they were using? Models 1 - 4 were available at the time. The photo on the camera section here appears to be a Zorki 1, but I've read on another forum someone had a Zorki 4.
Nigel Evans 30-05-2017 15:52 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside - I don't have the book to hand but from memory it discusses at least a dozen different theories. I thought that it was widely accepted that the existence of the footprints (of 8 to 9 individuals), the effort required to gather firewood and build a snowden versus the extensive fractures ruled out the possibility that they occured at the tent. AK was dead from a snapped neck, LD had a rib piercing her heart and NTB's skull was so badly split his head had lost symmetry. The avalanche theory has been discarded by most people interested in the dpi.

SZ was (it is assumed) a KGB agent and hence presumably well trained in using his second camera for day or night shots. If the photos are genuine then it wasn't dark! Imo the three heads photo is from inside the tent. If so then it seems plausible that he took the plane/eagle photos outside, got cold and returned inside were shortly after the GLO appeared right outside the tent, it's not a perfect shot it does seem a little over exposed but to be fair he was probably getting worried by then.

If you look under the "TENT" link above you'll see that when they descended they walked an extra 800 metres past the start of the treeline to reach the cedar which was the tallest tree by far and apparently provided a view of the tent from it's top half. This means that if the GLO was at the tent it would illuminate the top half of this tree and act as a beacon. That they walked twice the distance necessary to gather firewood is significant imo. They needed to get the the cedar because there was something at the tent to monitor.
MB 30-05-2017 14:01 (GMT)
Theres some discussion below that suggests lighting conditions that night (even though it was moonless until 3am) were unusual. See the discussions of the flashlights and where they were placed. Its not entirely conclusion (an additional flashlight may have never been recovered) but I think its pretty suggestive that they had enough light to see by for at least the beginning of the night.
Thomas Whiteside 30-05-2017 13:42 (GMT)
Oh and one more thing, the most logical reason for the camera being mounted on a tripod would appear to relate to the light needed for 35mm film.

There would have been very low light inside the tent, and one would need to use a very low shutter speed to even body attempting a photo. At any shutter speed below 1/60th you need to use a tripod otherwise you get a blurred image. I know no photo was taken inside the tent, but maybe someone thought about giving it a go in the fading afternoon light, set up the shot, and then decided it was a lost cause?

Also, is there any suggestion they were carrying light meters? I haven't picked on any suggestion they were? I'm pretty sure the 50s Zorkis didn't had inbuilt ones.
Thomas Whiteside 30-05-2017 13:33 (GMT)
First off, by the far the most convincing theory I've encountered so far is the 'snow slip' theory offered by Amanda Bosworth, Irina Lobatcheva, and Vladislav Lobatchev in 'Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret'. The key being the fact only Slobodin's body left an ice thraw suggested he was still warm when he fell, and therefore suggesting injuries were caused inside the tent.

Anyway, just be reading again the camera section here, and a lot is made of the extra camera found around Zolotaryov's neck, supposedly taken by him when he left the tent to take photos of whatever terror was unfolding. This seems to miss a crucial point, it was dark! Manual rangefinders need light to work. Without a flash, there'd be no point taking the camera to take photos of whatever was occurring. Seems to me he was either just wearing it already, or keeping it safe to use another time.
Nigel Evans 30-05-2017 10:39 (GMT)
@Trf - i'd be interested in seeing a critique of SZ's photos if you find it again.

No my theory doesn't require lightning. The thundersnow theory is an alternative one to explain the ravine deaths and possibly YK/YD. A strong lightning strike has been known to throw people 30ft through the air and strip them naked. It's a good theory to explain natural barotrauma and burns and burnt clothing. But of course a weakness of the theory is that it requires very bad luck that the strike hits the ravine close enough to be fatal. N.B. the fire at the tall cedar might have encouraged the strike...
But the "ball lightning at the tent followed by a collapse of the snow den theory" doesn't need it. They are alternative natural phenomena theories to explain the injuries. Currently i like the two phase collapse of the den the best. Doesn't make it true of course... Happy
Trf 30-05-2017 07:16 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans

Like I said earlier, I do love your theory - but the negatives from Semyons camera aren't proof of anything. They're incredibly damaged and aren't necessarily photographs of light sources at all. I saw a good explanation from a photography expert but I can't find it.

I think Igor's last photograph is more telling, but even that could be anything.

Also, your theory involves severe lightning. You don't need to climb a tree in order to see ball lightning or some other extreme light phenomena. If it was extreme enough to make them slash their tent, surely it was lighting up the sky. Pretty obvious if it is still around the tent or not, no need to scale a tree.

Climbing a tree around lightning is illogical and obviously dangerous too. I think someone climbing so high (5 metres?) points towards someone trying either to hide or escape from something - or trying to provide a vantage on something that isn't so obvious as a ball of light. Or they were hypothermic and irrational and their tree climbing actions were chaotic. Firewood is another theory.
Nigel Evans 30-05-2017 06:06 (GMT)
@Lemmino YT - a smoke or carbon monoxide theory doesn't explain why they abandoned the tent without collecting clothing, headed for the cedar which was the tallest tree and provided a means of observing the tent site from it's top half.
A good theory has to explain what kind of threat could cause them to vacate the tent area but seek to monitor it in order to return.
Searching for an explanation for these facts we have eye witness accounts of lights and photos attributed to SZ.
Trf 29-05-2017 22:53 (GMT)
@Lemmino YT

The tent's canvas showed no signs of smoke or burn damage. Nor do any objects inside the tent. There certainly wasn't a large fire inside there because everything would be burnt. So maybe just smoke?

I agree that smoke is a great motivator to slash the tent - but it doesn't explain the horrific injuries that occurred later. It also doesn't explain why they walked so far from the tent. After the smoke was exhausted - why not grab your shoes? Why walk off barefoot?
Lemmino YT 29-05-2017 22:19 (GMT)
It's pretty obvious that the disassembly of Dyatlov's homemade stovepipe coupled with freshly burnt embers was the culprit that hastily smoked them all out of the overcrowded tent in the middle of the night and then sent them scrambling down the hill disoriented into the woods to procure additional kindling and cover and ultimately meet their untimely demise in the freezing pitch darkness. Ball lightning and Kármán vortex streets? Come on, grow a brain people.
Nigel Evans 29-05-2017 21:12 (GMT)
@Trf - hi there.

Your theory has to deny the photos attributed to SZ, my theory embraces them.

YK's burn was a foot long (30cm) and the skin was charred down to the underlying tissues. It is accepted that this couldn't be accidental. Either he was unconcious or tortured or already dead or something else. That he bit his hands so hard rules out some of those. We can't prove where the burn came from but i like it as a reason for immediately vacating the tent.

It might not have been -20C, Ctrl F this page for hot spot.

I don't buy that they immediately vacate the tent and leave their clothing because the weather scared them. It was something stronger than that. Cue SZ's three heads photo.

Glad you like the theory overall.

The footprints were almost all from people without boots. Either they are genuine or fabricated, no possibility of contamination. The wind exposes or covers depending on the shape of the terrain. The bigger question is how did they survive 4 weeks, cue the warm snow theory.

Trf 29-05-2017 20:35 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans

It doesn't have to be something as rare/controversial and unprecedented as ball lightning for the theory to make sense. It could've just been normal lightning or bad wind. Have some terrifying, loud inclement weather roll over you and it can cause a panick, which leads to the tent being cut open.

From there, the only logical thing to do is to move to cover which is the tree line. The bad weather was still a pressing concern so most didn't bother getting correctly dressed, they just got out of there. Loud wind or stormy conditions may have made them worry about avalanche or snow drift which makes the tent on the slope a scary place to stay. They probably weren't thinking about consequences, they just wanted to get out and assumed they could come back for their items later.

I don't agree with you in your assessment of the burns. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect freezing people without shoes be so desperate for warmth that they burn themselves without realising. I believe the burns were probably caused by the fire at the cedar tree. It is easy to burn yourself when huddled up by a fire, especially if you're drifting in and out of consciousness or suffering from hypothermia.

You mention it wasn't that cold. Most estimates put the weather that night to be around -20C. I don't care if you're a Jamacain or an Eskimo, being shoeless in -20C with high wind and wet snow would be enough to put your body into shock and begin hypothermia. This is scientific fact. They would have not been comfortable by any means. Sure, they didn't all have frostbite but you don't need horrific frostbite to die of hypothermia.

I agree with your general idea about the injuries they suffered. I think it was a combination of falls and impact with debris due to inclement weather. It isn't a coincidence that the individuals in the "snow den" had the worst of the impact injuries.

I think the most likely solution is bad weather scared at least one of the hikers to make them slash their way out of the tent. This rendered the tent inhospitable so they moved to get cover. Murphy's law took over and provided the rest.

Overall, your theory is excellent. I understand that the camera being on the corpse of Semyon may be a sign of some weird and wonderful weather phenomena occurring. Ivor's last photo might point to the same thing. As does the eye witness reports of light around the general area.

One question I have is about the footprints. Surely we can't put much stock into them. The investigators had no idea of the nature of the mystery when they found the sight and more than likely contaminanted the scene on arrival. Also, if enough snowfall occurred to essentially completely obscure the bodies - how were footprints still visible?
Nigel Evans 29-05-2017 15:06 (GMT)
@Lightning - "Others reported skin redness, vomiting and loss of hair, which are typical results of ionizing radiation". This all fits with the dpi of course.

However Wu is discussing lightning bolts generating microwaves which produce short lived ball lightning of relatively small size and short lifetimes. The DP lights are different and perhaps have more in common with Hessdalen where objects "as big as a barn" can last for hours and have a radar signature without being visible. Clearly there's a lot of overlap but what creates the microwaves would seem to be different. I like the large atmospheric maser/soliton theory of course.
Lightning 29-05-2017 13:16 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans- microwaves can actually cause "debiitating force". "Occurring at 0.1 J/cm^2, nerve damage can lead to a numbness in the limbs. The microwave reaches 1 J/cm^2 for ball formation."

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep28263
Nigel Evans 29-05-2017 11:38 (GMT)
My best guess so far :-
1. YK gets too close to the GLO at the tent and suffers an electrical or microwave burn. YD could have been burnt also but his "burns" are also consistent with frostbite from spending too long up the cedar in severe windchill. YK's injuries force an immediate but orderly withdrawal to the cedar. There is good evidence that temperatures were raised above normal and the group may have prefered immediate withdrawal to collecting unnecessary clothing (most of the group had no frostbite even though they had no gloves or boots and the fire and the den clearly took some time to create).
2. YK and YD die first at the campfire. YK is in such pain that he bites the back of his hand off which is found in his mouth. That he was conscious just before death makes it difficult imo to argue that his massive leg burn was accidental from the campfire. The rescuers claim that the footsteps where from 8 or 9 people. Imo this points to YK being carried part of the way.
3. A two phase collapse of the snow den creates the fractures including RS. The first collapse pushes the group off their seats with NTB's head lying between LD and SZ all of them struggling under the snow. AK gets his head above the snow just in time for the second much heavier collapse. This snaps AK's neck and punches the first fall of snow along a line cracking two chests and one skull. The "punch" is softened by the first fall so that it crushes without bruising or breaking limbs. RS is at the periphery of the first fall and receives more direct contact with it which does result in bruising.
4. The remaining three rescue the ravine four plus RS. AK is dead but all the others are still alive. Clothing is taken from YD/YK to try and make the injured comfortable. LD dies shortly afterwards and some of her clothing is passed to SZ who tries to write in his notebook.
5. As the leader ID decides to brace the cold and remain with the injured but instructs ZK to get RS back to the shelter of the tent now that the GLO has gone (and perhaps return with more clothing).
6. RS and ZK both collapse on the return journey. They together with ID all exhibit facial "scratches". Note this is consistent with other ball lightning experiences the theory being that it is caused by microwaves.
7. The last to die in the ravine would have been NTB estimated by the pathologist at taking two hours. ID now suffering from hypothermia tries to return but also collapses. The returning three all lie within 330 metres of each other suggesting imo some "debiitating force".
8. At sunrise a group of crows find the bodies removing eyes/tongue etc shortly before further snowfall/wind drift buries the bodies.
Lightning 29-05-2017 09:23 (GMT)
@Jordan As mentioned before here it is impossible that another human being can inflict such a damage. Medical examiner compared impact force to car crash. No normal human being cannot inflict such a damage neither a soldier. Besides if it was some super human it would definetely caused soft tissue damage, but there weren't any.
Jordan 29-05-2017 06:01 (GMT)
Chris,

You're right. I'm not really drawn to the light in the sky thing but I just felt like mentionining it. Can't discard it, primarily due to the witness accounts.

I also think the cause must be somehow related to the Soviet Union's government, because they undoubtedly obstructed the investigation and aftermath. Maybe their obstructiveness was just the way they operated about everything though.

The more I read the more convinced I am the hiker's injuries were inflicted by other human beings. Almost all of them had impact trauma - not just the ones in the snow den. Zina had a large "baton like" bruise on her stomach and Rustik had a strike to the head too. An avalanche could cause this, but that's all but been ruled out.
Chris 29-05-2017 04:57 (GMT)
The specks on the photo, based on the randomness of​their shapes, appear to be specks of radiation or other contamination. The film was under water for three months and very likely corrupted. There was one photo that showed what many call "lights in the sky", this could easily be an out-of-focus shot of a camp fire, or a meteor, or a UFO.
Jordan 29-05-2017 03:49 (GMT)
I think there is enough evidence to seriously consider the lights in the sky as a part of this. I don't want to sound like a tin foil hat UFO man - but there is evidence. The last photo they took appears to be a light. The negatives from Sasha's camera appear to be photographs of a light source. Several of them. Then we have the witness testimonies and observed light phenomena from that area. Then we have the tree marks.

I think they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I just don't know why seeing light phenomena would motivate you to shred your tent.

It also explains why the Soviet officials covered it up. The lights were probably military testing.

I also think there is enough evidence to consider the blunt force trauma being the result of hostility.

I have a feeling the tent was shredded after the group were dead.
MB 22-05-2017 14:17 (GMT)
If it was so bitterly cold that they were already suffering from hypothermia IN the tent, it begs the question why they pitched the tent out in the open on the mountain. Demonstrably its a quick walk to gain some shelter and pitch the tent in a safer spot.
Yudin postulated that Dyatlov chose that spot to challenge their mountaineering skills, which seems reasonable if the weather was amendable, but suicidal if the weather was already punishing them. Their state of dress (undress) also points to reasonably mild conditions when they camped. I think there are a some indications that there was a major shift in the weather in the night that contributed to the endgame.
Nigel Evans 22-05-2017 09:52 (GMT)
@Lightning - thundersnow can explain events after leaving the tent but not why they left it.
Saturnalia 21-05-2017 13:10 (GMT)
"if they were suffering from hypothermia why go 1.5 km away from the tent. They could just light up their oven or if it didn't work make a campfire near the tent? Suffering from hypothermia i can't possible see how could they walk 1.5 km."

Their tent was full of big holes, stove does not help much then. You can walk if you have hypothermia. Survival instict makes wonders for your performance.

But yeah, Nigel is right. They propably were feeling warm and okay, because they had undressed. Still...very, very limited space inside the tent. According to weather reports it was not horribly cold night.
Lightning 21-05-2017 12:52 (GMT)
Much colder air from the mountain collided with the warmer air. Was it cloudy during the day?
Lightning 21-05-2017 12:38 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans- So it shows that temperature was suitable for formation of thundersnow?
Nigel Evans 21-05-2017 12:23 (GMT)
the software just stripped all the nice spacing out but hopefully still readable.
Nigel Evans 21-05-2017 12:22 (GMT)
From "Don't go there", temperatures from nearest weather stations, Feb 1-2.

Troitsk-Pecherski (123 miles north) Nyaksimvol (59 miles north-east) Ivdel (75 miles south)
7am -7.8C -6.9C -6.0C
1pm -10.3C -9.0C -5.6C
7pm -15.1C -13.8C -11.0C
1am(Feb 2) -18.1C -18.0C -14.6C
7am(Feb 2) -17.3C -28.4C -16.5C

Nigel Evans 21-05-2017 11:56 (GMT)
@Lightning/Saturnalia -

If they were suffering from the cold then they would be wearing all the extra clothing :-

9 parka, 8 quilted jackets (vatnik), 1 fur jacket, 2 fur sleeveless vests, 4 shell pants, 1 cotton pants, 4 Scarf, 13 pairs of gloves (fur, cloth and leather), 7 pcs. boots (valenki), 2 pairs of slippers, 3 skating caps, 1 fur hat, 2 felt beret.

That they were not wearing the above, particularly the gloves and felt boots indicates that they were not suffering from hypothermia...
Nigel Evans 21-05-2017 11:45 (GMT)
@Saturnalia -

They used the backpacks with the skis to create a floor that insulated them from the ground. But they had to sleep with the contents of course. But a lot of that would be clothing. I don't think they undressed much, imo what they left the tent wearing was their sleepwear. They hadn't washed in days, probably better to stay dressed Happy

It's worth remembering that at this latitude in winter they would have limited daylight hours say 8 hours per day so 16 hours of darkness. It's possible that they normally slept in shifts with the others outside by the fire. The last night was an exception and they probably didn't expect a good nights sleep, just catnap.

Someone has speculated that they didn't take their outer clothing because it was wet and perhaps frozen. Good point perhaps but it doesn't explain why they didn't grab their valenki (felt boots) and other clothing.

On the first day the men carried 40kg backpacks and the girls 30kg, they left 55kg of food at the base camp to ascend, they didn't carry firewood for the stove, normally it was just outside the camp, they left three hand axes behind in the tent which also indicates the rush. That the stove was found inside the tent indicates imo that they hadn't settled in for the night, it would make sense to leave it outside in the snow for sleeping.

But imo the temperature wasn't -25C, these people must have been outside for at least 1 hour maybe longer in their socks with no gloves, no face protection and yet there is very little frostbite recorded, most of them don't have any. With the reported high winds the effective/wind chill temperature would have been much lower, could have been -50C. You'd get frostbite in minutes... The lack of frostbite, hot spot, footprints that last for weeks, snow on tent as hard as wood, it's all pointing at unusually warm conditions that subsequently returned to normal (much colder).
Lightning 21-05-2017 09:30 (GMT)
@Saturnalia- if they were suffering from hypothermia why go 1.5 km away from the tent. They could just light up their oven or if it didn't work make a campfire near the tent? Suffering from hypothermia i can't possible see how could they walk 1.5 km.
Saturnalia 21-05-2017 08:53 (GMT)
Somebody here noted that tent size was very small. I do agree. It is not impossible to fit nine people inside that tent without backpacks, but it"s gonna be very tight. No room for anything else, even turning around while sleeping is will be difficult.

How they did it with backpacks, is bit of a mystery. If everybody used their backpack as a pillow, then just about...but it was definitely claustrofobic inside the tent. Oxygen levels were propably suffering, expecially when the stove was on. Positive side is that when people pack themselves next to each other this tightly, they will heat up each other.

Just how they managed to undress and dress orderly inside so tight space is a mystery. It is not entirely impossible, i have done that in the army, but it is very slow process to dress up inside so tight space. Had this reality something to do with the fact they exited the tent undressed? Dressing up would have taken many minutes to do, and they somehow did not have minutes.

What buzzles me is the fact that the stove was not on that night. When i think how tightly next to each other they were sleeping, i kinda understand that, they did not need the stove that night, they heated up each other somewhat. Anyway, it was still cold.

Sleeping at -20C without a stove and without modern, high-tech sleeping bags and stuff can freak you out. It"s scary. It freaked me out once in the army pretty badly. During the hardest training period we were sleeping at -25C without sleeping bags and stove really did not help much. It"s scary when you lose the control of your mouth and can not speak anymore properly.

When we marched back to barracks i walked straight to the hot shower with my rifle and everything on, and got short punishment but i did not care. It was worth it. Never have shower felt so good in my life.

It somehow looks like they decided to try some kind of new experiment that night, trying to sleep without a stove by just getting packed very tightly, but it did not work very well. They were close to hypothermia, and then something extraordinary happened, or at least they imagened so.
Nigel Evans 19-05-2017 09:18 (GMT)
@Lightning - Svetlana Oss in her book - "Don't go there" gives the relevant reports from all the local weather stations. None of them are very close, say 50 miles away but from memory they all report ordinary conditions for the time of year, average temps/wind speeds etc. However people in settlements closer reported very high winds... Wind would be stronger at 1000m of course.
Lightning 19-05-2017 07:54 (GMT)
Are there any weather reports/maps about this area in February and March (doesn't matter what language, Google Translate will help)?
Nigel Evans 18-05-2017 21:28 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - the ball lightning theory has it that they could see the tent from the top half of the cedar because this was outside it - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-01.jpg and that it had burnt the two Yuris by the tent forcing the group to immediately withdraw.
MB 18-05-2017 17:36 (GMT)
If it was murder it was the most inconvenient murder imaginable.
Tim mckernan 18-05-2017 17:06 (GMT)
Finger nail scrapings and or hair transfers could Yield DNA. This could point directly to which tribe and relative if they were murdered...RIGHT! They will find Emeilla first and flight M 270.
Saturnalia 18-05-2017 16:42 (GMT)
Watching those recent russian scene recreation videos that distance to the ravine from the tent looks like a loooong walk. Russian guy walks it and it takes over 20 minutes from him in the snow. They propably thought that their tent was now useless for survival and decided to build a den down hill. Walked there without their shoes and full clothes then. This case is insane. If they acted rationally after leaving the tent, why didn"t they pick up their shoes then from the tent? Something obviously prevented. It"s a looong walk to the ravine in the snow. Why go so far? Tent disappeared from their sight when they were only half way down. If somebody was on the tent he did not see them anymore, and they did not see him. From the ravine the tent was visible, but it"s just a little black dot far, far away. Tent was mile away and it was more or less dark. I don"t believe they tried to see the tent from the tree, tent was just too far away to really tell anything about happening around it. So, they rationally and calmly abandoned their tent and their shoes and clothes, and walked down to the ravine? Tent was screwed and new den was needed down hill, but why to leave important clothing behind? It"s like, there was somehow no way to return inside the tent, even after calm consideration. Weird. Only reason i can find to walk such a great distance without proper clothing was that they decided to build that den immediately, right after leaving the tent. That was the reason they went down hill, tent was useless. But why not to take shoes with them then? It"s just crazy. More you think of it it seems they ran down hill in panic without any plan about the den. That would explain why they left their important clothing behind. Flaslight was propably found to be non-working, so they just threw it away while they ran.
Many of you propably have thought this case way more than me, i just try to fork around this a bit.
Nigel Evans 18-05-2017 07:53 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - SZ didn't have any head fractures. He didn't have any bruising to explain the chest fractures. Ditto NTB, his head fractures were more extensive than described on this site, the base of his skull was cracked from side to side, but no bruising. It's impossible to do this with a rifle butt? In fact although the ravine four carried other bruises they didn't have any that could explain the extensive fractures. Hence speculation that barotrauma was involved. But there are no burst lungs/ears that would be expected from an explosion. One explanation to fit the profile is the roof of the den collapsed. Or there was an explosion further back in the ravine snow bank that attenuated the shockwave enough to not burst tissues but still had enough force to throw the den and it's occupants sideways 6-10 metres perhaps.
Dyatlov is above Helsinki, not the artic circle but getting there.
Saturnalia 18-05-2017 06:13 (GMT)
One member has severe head and chest injuries, but the camera hanging from his neck is intact.
Blows that broke his chest did not touch his camera hanging on the top of the chest. This seems to indicate that those blows were very well aimed indeed. Somebody hit him with the backside of the rifle when he was on the ground. Did not hit the camera, which is weird. How camera can survive intact the force that crushes your chest? It swung on the side somehow?
There"s so many mysteries in this case it"s unbelievable. Guy had a pee, and then started to run for cover. Threat must have been dramatic. One single mansi with a rifle will not cause this kind of panic. Who knows. Guy having a pee yelled to others inside the tent that "here"s a man with a gun!". Could everybody panic because of that? Somehow does not sound convincing. It must have been something more dramatic.

Dyatlov pass is around 1400 kilometres from here, at the same global height. It is not very far north.

MB 17-05-2017 19:50 (GMT)
We should expect the unusual, something unusual (or several somethings) certainly happened to these people, or a plausible solution would be available. The foot prints exist because the photos exist. Usual or not the searchers found them. Is it more likely that an uncommon sequence occurrence like a quick freeze followed by snow followed by wind just as the searchers arrived, or some much more unlikely or inexplicable event? Im not saying something genuinely unprecedented isnt possible, but if we're talking odds, i think those are longer odds.
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 17:33 (GMT)
All discussions of temperature should recognise the reported high winds with associated wind chill, i.e. -25C can be in effect -50C if the wind is strong enough.
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 17:31 (GMT)
@Lightning - from memory one of the reports talks about " a light surrounded by a mist", note the eagle1 and 2 photos.
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 17:23 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - we crossed posted there, this is Siberia in Feb on the North side of the mountain, reasonable that the temperature shouldn't get above say -15C?
Lightning 17-05-2017 17:23 (GMT)
Well i found an exactly the same description of ball lightning that witnesses saw around that time (February and March) in Dyatlov. And it also happened at winter! And it also exploded! (Size of a moon and halo around it)

http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Fireball.html Scroll down for a "A very strange visitation"
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 17:01 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - as you say the facts strongly point to a static natural threat at the tent, forcing them to withdraw to safe distance and light a fire/build a den.
But do you think that the footsteps can be explained by the temperature of the snow being raised close to it's melt point and then refrozen?

@MB - being covered by snow until just before discovery is an explanation but of course an improbable one. Occam's Razor doesn't explain the hot spot, or the rescue team reporting that the snow on the tent was as hard as wood.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 16:52 (GMT)
Temperatures travel up and down inside four weeks quite a lot usually, melting and freezing again. Four weeks is a month, about. A long time during the winter. Many things are just about possible, but it is very unusual to be able the trace sharp footprints on snow after a month. Mellow round-edged shallow potholes. You can tell if it was two legged or four legged, but that"s about it. Of course mountain conditions can differ somewhat. Temps are colder higher up and there is less snowfall. Melting temperatures are less likely to happen on higher altitude.
MB 17-05-2017 16:31 (GMT)
@Nigel I dont know how much weight i'd give those followup expeditions regarding footprints. How many variables are involved? You'll never know if youve replicated whatever conditions existed exactly, and you'd really need dozens or hundreds of tests under differing conditions to even get an idea. I do know that footprints sometimes quickly ice over and then can be covered with snow that is later blown off. I'd suggest Occams Razor tells us thats likely what happened.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 16:20 (GMT)
About those footsteps, there are no sharp footsteps after four weeks even if conditions were dead calm during all that time, which is very unlikely. Footsteps on snow smooth out quite fast, they become like mellow-edged round pots. Definitely untracable after four weeks. You can tell that a human stepped there, but that"s about it.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 16:12 (GMT)
Thank you for your critique. I just tried to find some new leads. I have read tons about this case. That flashlight. Yeah, they propably left it behind intentionally as a beacon if it was not dead already. If it was dead already they could have just thrown it away. That means the threat they experienced was not mobile. It was a static threat around the tent area that did not chase them following the light cue. A static threat, that makes a group leave their tent in horror. Now what could that be? Human threat would have followed them, using the light cue. It was not a human threat if they left that flashlight there intentionally to find back to tent. If we believe in this flashlight theory, it was unhuman threat. This is very fascinating case indeed. Non-human threat, wow. Non-intellectual threat. We can pretty much count all animals out too, no one wants to leave them a light cue. A threat that did nor care about the flaslight next to it. I hate that thunderball theory, but something cold and unhuman it was. It seems like they behaved rationally right after leaving the tent, sort of. Missed the base camp though. Threat existed only around the tent area, it was not able to travel. Static, nonhuman threat. Sounds and blasts are not very static, they have a wide effect area. It looks like this threat was quite strongly limited around the tent area. What kind of threat could be static, unintellectual and unhuman? If it would have a blast of some kind, it would have been over after the blast. It was static and unintellectual but it lasted, preventing them from returning. Very, very interresting. It did not move but it did not go away rapidly. What the heck could that be?
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 16:06 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - given your experience of these conditions i'd be interested in your view of the footsteps lasting four weeks. Subsequent winter expeditions have reported that they cannot reproduce this persistence. One theory is that the temperature that night was higher, closer to the snow's melt point resulting in impressions that when they refroze lasted much longer in the high wind conditions.
mkk 17-05-2017 14:12 (GMT)
@Saturnalia--My understanding is that there were broken fibers, or "blade scratches" on the inside of the tent around the cuts, but not on the outside. As though someone made attempts to cut through the tent from the inside before actually succeeding.

But there have been some questions as to how accurately the cuts on the tent were recorded (number, size, placement) since, at first, the volunteers were simply looking for the hikers and hoping to find them alive. I don't know whether that's a valid question, or whether the investigators can be trusted to have made accurate notes of everything.

Your theory of hypothermia makes sense at first glance, but it sounds like maybe you aren't familiar with the other pieces of information.

It seems that the only part of their behavior which makes no sense is leaving the tent. The rest of their behavior seems to be perfectly rational. There was a flashlight which looked like it had been left as a beacon to mark the way back to the tent. After the first two died (under the cedar tree) the others laid them out respectfully and donned pieces of their clothing to help fight the cold. (Thus some of them in the ravine were found wearing pieces of the clothing from the guys under the tree.) There was distinct evidence of a snow cave having been built, with evergreen branches for seats. None of this sounds like the behavior of people losing their ability to think carefully and attempt to survive. Even if it were some strange kind of temporary insanity that caused them to leave the tent, why not return to it to get supplies & gear as soon as their wits returned?

So we are left trying to figure out why intelligent, brave mountaineers decided they had a better chance of survival in the Siberian forest in February (without full winter clothing!) than in their tent. I agree with you, that people don't run out into the freezing night because of a weird sound. (Although--have you ever experienced infrasound? There are some sites online where you can hear/feel it if you have earphones. It's pretty crazy. I can see how it might drive someone batty after several hours. Only it doesn't explain why they didn't take sixty seconds longer to put on their shoes.)

Nigel has a good theory, which he explains in the thread below.
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 13:11 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - about the theory that they were suffering from cold, but the theory has to explain how they were sufficiently sane to leave a flashlight as a beacon along the path to the cedar and collect firewood and make a fire but sufficiently confused to leave their footwear and other clothing in the tent. There are several key questions wrt the dpi and the biggest is why do that?
You'll have to read the thread to get upto speed, checkout the three heads photo.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 08:29 (GMT)
Two days before death their diary says:

"Came out relatively early (around 10am). Took the same Mansi sled trail. Till now we walk along a Mansi trail, which was crossed by a deer hunter not long ago. Yesterday we apparently came across his resting stop. Deer didn't go much further. The hunter didn't follow the beaten trail and we are now in his steps."

They travelled something like 6-8 miles per day.
Mansis with a gun were no more than 12-15 miles away from their last camp. Propably closer.
On a clear day you can see miles and miles on that kind of mountain area. Mansis propably had them on their view most of the time.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 07:18 (GMT)
How we know the tent was cut from the inside?
There has been quite a few criminal attacks on tents where tent was cut from the outside by the attacker. For me this looks like a some kind of outside attack, and then they escaped on wrong direction away from the base camp. Otherwise they would have cut the tent open without seeing the attacker, only based on sound, which is quite weird logically. IF the tent was cut from the inside, it was done based only on sound. If you think logically, there are no such sounds out there that make you do something that suicidal as destroying your tent on freezing cold arctic weather. I have been military trained on arctic where i live too, and you just do not destroy our tent like that based on some weird sound. Nobody is that stupid, and those people were intelligent scientists. They know the consequences of their every action exactly. I have slept on exactly same kind of conditions on tent during the military years, as a member of a same kind of group, and one suggestion that came to my mind is boring and simple, they experienced hypothermia inside the tent, i have experienced that once, and started to behave weirdly because of that. On hypothermia you want to undress. As far as i understand their stove was not on or there at all.
It"s lethally cold to sleep on wet clothes at -30C without heat source. Problem with this logic is why they were so stupid then? Was their stove there? Without working stove on -30C after a day hiking, jesus. They possibly went on hypothermia inside the tent.

mkk 16-05-2017 23:25 (GMT)
@Tim--"the snow cave is to clean cut". Typo for "too"? As in, "the snow cave looks more neat and tidy than I'd expect, for being built in the dark."

Not trying to be annoying; just making sure I understand you.
Nigel Evans 16-05-2017 15:25 (GMT)
@Tim - i don't agree with most of that but in particular i don't understand the first sentence, what do you mean by "The shovel is out of place in the sequence of exiting the tent."?
Tim mckernan 16-05-2017 13:06 (GMT)
The shovel is out of place in the sequence of exiting the tent. Someone knew where the shovel was in the dark and used it to inflict some of the injuries on the tourists. The snow cave is to clean cut and looks staged for people freezing to death.
Michal Kántor (photo editor Bauer Media Prague) 16-05-2017 12:39 (GMT)
Hello, we'd like to write a double-page on Dytlov Pass in our Rhythm of Life magazine. We would like to use photos from your site. Possible? Thanks for the reply.
mkantor@bauermedia.cz
MB 12-05-2017 13:45 (GMT)
@rol88 I actually think its very likely that two or more unlikely events happened in quick succession in this case. Thats the reason its such an enduring mystery. Its a game of statistics, millions of people have gone hiking in the last 60 years. Almost all of them have come back safe. Some have suffered accidents that are readily explained. A few have disappeared or are otherwise still mysterious. You get enough people out hiking over a long enough period of time, sooner or later something very unlikely is going to happen to them. Sooner or later two or more very unlikely things are going to happen, and its going to seem extremely mysterious in retrospect.
IE- every so often somewhere in the world a cars brakes go out. Every so often the steering goes out. On very, very rare occasions the brakes and the steering go out near simultaneously for completely unrelated reasons. To the naked eye that seems so unlikely they there must be some connection or conspiracy, but thats not necessarily so. Its just the law of big numbers.
Nigel Evans 12-05-2017 09:48 (GMT)
@Rol88- well 5 deaths (if you include RS) are a result of the ravine event which is clearly due to mechanical force or barotrauma not radioactivity.
Maybe the helicopter pilots had their suspicions about radiation and took a detector with them?




Rol88 12-05-2017 07:38 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : My point is that it is highly unlikely the threat could be just " natural" phenomenon , -whether it is GLO or something else - given the fact the hikers were hurt and killed in 2 or 3 separate events. Natural phenomenon tends to strike randomly . It looks like they were targeted . If we assume it was GLO well I have never read about a " natural" GLO killing 9 people ( or even 8 people ,death of Dyatlov seems to be real hypothermia ) . The Hessdalen site you mentioned has never reported a single human casualty despite the fact it is inhabited ! Now it might very well be some kind of experiment which went out of control due to incompetence or stupidity . The highly secretive attitude of the Soviet authorities towards the case is very suspicious . It looks like they knew more than what they said . How do you explain the searching helicopter landed with a Geiger device on its board ? Who or what gave them the idea there might be some amount of radioactivity on some of the bodies or the clothes ? Is a Geiger Muller device a standard item in the rescue equipment of people stranded in the wild ? Even the pilots knew something and refused 1st to embark the bodies. They did it under threat . DPI looks more related to deaths associated with UFO such as cattle and even human mutilation etc. Also it reminds me of a very troubling case which happened in Brazil in 1966 . Pls check " the Lead masks case " btw the victims were also radio technicians. ..
mkk 11-05-2017 22:53 (GMT)
@Brittany--I've wondered a lot about that. I haven't read anything about it, but it's curious.

Does he mean that he just couldn't find the time to write for the group? Or that he couldn't write while he was walking/skiing like in the pic of Zina? Or maybe he's just being intentionally irritating to the rest of the group, avoiding a responsibility he doesn't really like?

Or maybe it's something more serious and meaningful. I'm curious to hear other people's opinions and thoughts.
Brittany 11-05-2017 18:44 (GMT)
I don't know if this is relevant to the DPI, but I haven't seen it discussed here before. Do we know what NT was referring to in his journal entry on 1/26?

"I can't, although I tried."
HA42 11-05-2017 18:27 (GMT)
I have analyzed the pictures of the unknown camera. Hereby I have counted how often a person was taken a picture from. By that analysis the camera must have been in the hand of Slobodin or Krivonischenko, because they are only on 2 or 3 pictures. And whos camera it was, he was interested in Zinaida Kolmogorova. And here's the entire result.
Person Number of pictures on which the person is being fotographed
Kolevatov 5
Dyatlov 4
Kolmogorova 12
Doroschenko 6
Dubinina 10
Yuri Yudin 1
Opa 1
Krivonischenko 3
Zolotaryov 6
Thibeaux-Brignolles 6
Slobodin 2
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 17:13 (GMT)
@Rol88 - there's a nice quote on the viafanzine page below :-
The "Heinlein Razor" (or Hanlon) represents the claim about the likely role of human error in the causes of unpleasant events. It says, " Never attribute malice to what can be adequately explained by stupidity ." The principle is named after Robert A. Heinlein formulated this idea first in his "Logic of Empire" (1941). The idea that the world is governed by a far greater measure of stupidity and incompetence than by malice and malice has repeatedly sounded from the lips of great men like Goethe and Napoleon. But people are much easier to convince themselves with the idea of ​​a conspiracy than to make them believe that the world is governed purely by incompetence.
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 15:21 (GMT)
@Rol88 - i have to disagree with the "evil intelligence theory". As said below the ravine deaths (perhaps including RS's injuries) could be due to the collapse of the den (accident) and the returning three are due to cold possibly combined with other factors such as microwaves. It could be that the ball lightning itself only injured the two Yuris and was unconnected with anything else.
However it is true that some ball lightning events move towards people and two eye witnesses of lights in the dpi area talk of the lights behaving as if they know they were being observed which is interesting but no more than that. The answer lies in the science of the future. If you stand under a tree and lightning kills you it's not due to it having evil intelligence....
Rol88 11-05-2017 14:44 (GMT)
MB you're right, if the KGB wanted them dead they would have found a blunt, simple and brutal way to'' liquidate'' them . On the contrary , we see the trip was facilitated Big grinon't forget Krivo made a scene at Ivdel , was taken to the police station and released the same day ... We know that Zolotaryov who had nothing to do with the students was almost certainly a KGB agent . Dyatlov did not give the exact details of his route to the University which sponsored the trip.The strange decision of Dyatlov to pitch the tent in the middle of a barren slope in a blizzard ( an aberration !) many details point out to the fact the hikers were actually on a mission to observe or track some strange phenomena in the region. IMO these phenomena ,Globular lightning or whatever caused the demise of the hikers could not be ''natural''. The ''threat'' which drove them out of their tent was dangerous enough to cause the death of ALL of them . A '' Natural'' threat would have caused the death of one or two hikers but not the demise of ALL of them( even the bodies of some which allegedly died of hypothermia showed horrible lesions ie Slobodin had a cranial crack ,Kolevatov a broken neck , Krivo a 3rd degree burn and Doro burnt hair etc) there must be an evil intelligence behind this ''threat'' which pursued and killed the hikers . Now whether this malevolent ''intelligence'' is human or not is yet to be discovered.
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 14:08 (GMT)
@User45 - this is all i know - http://www.dyatlov-pass-incident.com/valentin-yakimenkos-study-groups-negatives/
User45 11-05-2017 14:05 (GMT)
@Nigel Is it known when all these pictures were taken (timeframe)?
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 13:17 (GMT)
@HA42 - apparently if you look even harder you can see a chicken. But i'm not sure the "demonic chicken" theory has a lot of legs...
HA42 11-05-2017 13:09 (GMT)
@User45
Here I can see the face of a man. You have to zoom in to see it.
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/manninderdunkel0avl1cki7s.png Here is the original picture 09 of Zolotaryovs camera:
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-10.jpg
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 11:51 (GMT)
@MB - quite agree, imo if the KGB deemed the DPI to have any significance we would never have even heard of it. The only reason it was so well investigated is that there was a question mark wrt defection (relatively near the Finnish border) of the ravine four who took 3 months to find. In particular it sounds like AK had worked in sensitive areas and the state wanted to know that he had died not defected plus SZ of course. Once they had all the bodies they closed the investigation as it was of no further interest to the state. Apparently when the ravine four were discovered Ivanov didn't even bother visiting the location. No need to, he knew that their discovery had ended the investigation with a predetermined cause.
User45 11-05-2017 08:26 (GMT)
@HA42 Could you make a screenshot of your sightings for I can not see what you see. Thank you.
MB 11-05-2017 04:08 (GMT)
The problem with any of the KGB, etc theories is that it was 1959 in the Soviet Union. If the KGB wanted them dead, they would have shot them, announced them traitors, and there would be zero mystery, zero inquiry, zero surprise. It happened all the time.
The last thing Soviet government agents would do to hide a secret is to draw attention to the secret with an elaborate, inexplicable murder. 1000 times easier to put them on a train to Siberia where they would never be seen or heard from again, and anyone they knew too terrified to ask questions.
HA42 10-05-2017 23:21 (GMT)
On the picture Nr 9 of Zolotaryovs camera, you can see the face of a military guy with a hat and mustash smiling sadistic in the camera, just next to the white point in the lower middle part of the picture. You have to zoom in, in order to see it. It is, as if it was taken in the dark without any flash, so they don't find out, that he had a camera.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 20:55 (GMT)
@MB - they've still got to work inside the den, those seats were carefully constructed.
MB 10-05-2017 20:31 (GMT)
Its possible they moved to the ravine and built the shelter when the moon rose. I wish we had a better timeline.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 20:13 (GMT)
@MB - thinking on it further how did they build the den and kit it out with seats without some illumination? Must have been a third flashlight maybe now buried in the streams sediment? Whilst leaving one behind as a beacon makes sense, leaving your last one is less sensible perhaps.

@Lightning - thanks i think that's a recent update. Interesting that they can last for over 4 hours and this opinion that they come towards you if you look at them....
Lightning 10-05-2017 17:43 (GMT)
This page http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm which Nigel Evans posted here quite a long time ago. If you scroll down to all most at the end of the page you can see a picture of ball lightning that one hiking group took at the same site 2012. So i think these photos from 1959 are legit.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 17:07 (GMT)
@MB - maybe add the aurora to the list.
MB 10-05-2017 16:35 (GMT)
I think so, GLO or lightning storm with low clouds. Unless there was another flashlight that was never recovered, I dont see how there wasnt an odd light condition.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 16:08 (GMT)
@MB - well if the three heads photo is genuine then the GLO would be a good source of light which could be reflected from snowfall above and possibly the terrain around. So the moon could be unnecessary.
MB 10-05-2017 15:36 (GMT)
I'd say, but I dont think there's any question they fled the tent and were traveling well before moonrise. Even if it was a very clear night, it would be difficult and dangerous to travel in the dark by starlight.
Putting down that flashlight has to be explained- unless it died on them and it was intentionally dropped (and even that sounds reckless, you would hope to get a few flickers out of it after turning it off for a while in the cold). If it was left as a beacon, I have to think they had some other way to see.

It could be that some combination of Dyatlov, Kolmogorova, and Slobodin (and i dont think its a given they all set out together) headed back to the tent at moonrise when they could get their bearings, timing seems reasonable.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 15:22 (GMT)
@MB - good point. The autopsy said that they died 6-8 hours after their last meal and there is no sign that they had a meal in the tent except for some limited snacking on brisket (evidence of rinds). But then they couldn't have cooked a meal inside anyway so they might have just snacked on cold food only - biscuits and stuff. So whether time of death is before or after moonrise is difficult to ascertain?
MB 10-05-2017 14:37 (GMT)
@Nigel But the moon didn't begin to rise until after 2 in the morning. Unless the timeline of when they fled the tent is wrong, the moon wouldnt have helped them.

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/rstt/onedaytable?ID=AA&year=1959&month=2&day=2&place=&lon_sign=1&lon_deg=59&lon_min=27&lat_sign=1&lat_deg=61&lat_min=45&tz=3&tz_sign=1
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 14:10 (GMT)
@MB - I'm sticking with SZ's photos being genuine so what happens at the tent is that a GLO (and a pretty big one, maybe as big as a house or even a barn) parks itself outside the tent.

playing around with this link apparently there would have been approx a half moon that night. - https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases/russia/moscow?year=1959 So that moonlight on the snow on a clear night would suffice for visibility i think.
MB 10-05-2017 13:44 (GMT)
@Nigel All true, but you have to factor in the time component. I'm no meteorology expert, but perhaps its possible that a storm front blew up the mountain and would have passed over within an hour or so, dropping the temperature vastly. So this weird storm blows in (scary in itself) basically engulfing them in clouds, theres lightning and thunder all around, making it light enough to see by, something happens in the tent (perhaps a lightning strike and/or hail storm) and they flee for shelter. An hour or so later theyve gotten to the cedar, the storm moves past and its pitch black, so they climb the tree to try to spot the beacon flashlight or perhaps monitor the storm.
I just cant get passed those flashlights being left, particularly the second one. That was probably their single most important survival tool at that moment. Imo, they must have somehow had enough light to see by when they set down that second flashlight.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 10:22 (GMT)
@Lightning - good to hear someone is reading this stuff Happy
The more i consider the ravine injuries the more i realise the strangeness of them. Extensive fractures without bruising, or burst ear drums/lungs or broken limbs not even a collar bone, weird. Plus the asymmetry, SZ+LD chest fractures and nothing else, NTB skull fractures and nothing else. Imo it fits better with a localised "soft crushing impact" than barotrauma.

@MB - SZ's photos and the eye witness account from the ski party 50km south would seem to suggest a relatively clear night. That could have changed later on, the three heads photo does indicate a lot of horizontal snow - blizzard.
I don't think you'd abandon the tent because of hail, just prop up the tents's sides with ski poles and stuff to insulate yourself from the impacts. The investigation included mountain experts who would have spotted the signs i think. Also they climbed the cedar to monitor the tent area, like they were waiting on something there to go away. Good point about visibility but presumably they weren't in a blizzard/whiteout or no point in climbing the tree.
MB 09-05-2017 20:49 (GMT)
Another virtue of thundersnow- it lights up the night to the point where its like gloomy daytime (the low clouds/fog create an eerie low light effect). That would explain why they ignored the tent flashlight- they didnt need it, they could see. They placed the second flashlight as a beacon and were willing to move on without a flashlight, because they could see.
MB 09-05-2017 20:39 (GMT)
I like the thundersnow theory. We had a blizzard in Chicago a few years ago and there was thundersnow for over an hour, it lit up the sky as though there were firetrucks everywhere, red and blue lights under very low clouds. I believe it tends to happen around freezing but itself produces severe wind chills. That would line up with the footprints.

I would be terrified to be out of doors when that thing struck.

Thundersnow sometimes produces hail as well. Has that even been considered? Lightning might make people run for the woods, but large hail falling on an open plain certainly wood, and could explain some of the head injuries. A golf ball or larger chunk of hail can kill. Here's a link I found to of 200 skeletons discovered killed by a freak hail storm:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333648/Mystery-Skeleton-Lake-solved-Scientists-reveal-bones-edges-Indian-lake-belonged-hundreds-9th-century-tribesmen-died-freak-hail-storm.html
Lightning 09-05-2017 19:55 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans Yes, i'm aware of the positive lightning. I've read all of this page comments Big grin . Also positive lightning is responsible for "bolt from the blue".
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 19:05 (GMT)
@Lightning - yes i've considered most of that already, ctrl F this page for thundersnow / positive polarity lightning. The advantage with the "roof collapse" theory is that the explosive event doesn't have to be close, just near enough to induce the first collapse. If the roof was unstable then maybe a thunderclap half a mile away would do it.
The explosion only theory is less probable as it has to be quite close by.
Lightning 09-05-2017 17:45 (GMT)
He reports that LD, NTB and SZ ear passages are clean. So he checked ears and would have reported if ear drums were ruptured. Also i found interesting study about lightning blast wave. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2071438/study-on-lightning-blast-wave.pdf
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 17:14 (GMT)
@Lightning - no he did inspect the ears - http://ermakvagus.com/Europe/Russia/Cholat-%20Syachil/dyatlov_pass_incident_autopsy.html is the only translation of the original autopsy reports i've found online so far (scroll down a third of the page). Svetlana Oss has a translation out on amazon btw but i don't have it.
Lightning 09-05-2017 16:47 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans Could be, because in the autopsy report i didn't find anything about ear drum rupture. If the blast wave was strong enough to rupture the ribs it also could rupture the ear drums. Maybe the examiner didn't inspect eardrums. But why if he said that such a damage can only be result of an explosion? And why nobody examined the birds, their cause of death.
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 15:43 (GMT)
But the "roof falling in" theory doesn't explain the dead birds, so you'd still need an explosion but now it can be an aerial explosion at some distance from the den, and just big enough to shake the ravine and bring down the first fall.
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 14:54 (GMT)
Just thought of an alternative theory for the ravine deaths.

I've considered before now the question "what if the roof of the den simply collapsed on them?" and i've discounted this theory because surely it must have resulted in broken limbs the lack of which is one of the primary facts to resolve in the ravine event. What could fracture a rib cage (three times in LD's case) and not break limbs?

But what if there was a partial collapse followed shortly by bigger one? I.e. the ravine had a depth of 4 metres, so assuming that the den is a metre high (or so, just big enough to sit inside). Then say a metre of snow falls in on them, although it would weigh approx a tonne because it's just above their heads it simply pushes them off their seats and fills in (packs) the gaps between them as they wrestle with it. Then the rest of the roof above falls in. This is two metres thick and possibly wider (2 tonnes or more?) and importantly has a metre of space below it in order to accelerate before impact. This hits them like a sledgehammer but the limbs are protected by the snow around them resulting only in crushing injuries to the head and chest.
This would be a good explanation for SZ, LD and NTB, for AK i'd tweak the theory that he managed to get his head above the first fall before the second snapped his neck.

As to why the roof fell in? SZ was an experienced builder of snow dens of course so it's unlikely that it was built incorrectly. But there are several indications that the temperature of the snow was being raised nearer to it's melt point. It seems plausible that this weakened the structure of the snow above them. N.B. NTB was found with his jacket unzipped and his gloves in a pocket.

Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 13:30 (GMT)
@Lightning - thanks, i'd agree that military accident or BL are the only theories that work for me.
A problem with the military theory is that the ravine injuries seem to rule out the involvement of high explosive as blast lung is the most common HE injury in survivors (due to the supersonic wave) and the autopsies didn't report any. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_injury
Lightning 09-05-2017 12:34 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans Yours Big grin, because it considers all the facts. ( So called cold spot, footsteps didn't dissapear, type of injury- barotrauma, photos, eyewitness accounts- another hiking group 50 km away saw at DIP lights and heard a bang).

Another theories like infrasound only explains why they ran out of tent but not the injuries and ignores the eyewitness acounts and photos. Same with the avalanche theory and the others.

Could be a millitary test, but unlikely. So two possibilites- millitary test or BL.
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 08:08 (GMT)
@Lightning - what's your favourite theory?
Lightning 08-05-2017 22:10 (GMT)
It would be interesting if someone creates a poll asking which theory people support.
Nigel Evans 08-05-2017 08:52 (GMT)
@mkk -
1. there have been several winter expeditions to the DP since the tragedy and they all report that it is impossible to replicate the persistence of the footsteps, that is they cannot make them last for more than 24/48 hours before the wind blows them away. The original footsteps lasted for 4 weeks before being found. One theory to explain this is that the snow was much less cold on that night and much closer to it's melt point. This together with subsequent refreezing explains how they became harder. It also fits in with the hot spot, the hardness of the snow on the tent and the signs of the ravine snow covering the bodies having softened and refrozen. I'm heartened that last video i posted about Hessdalen mentioned that with one of the visible events that lasted for minutes, an object at the same location had been transmitting at radar frequencies for over four hours. So this fits well with the microwave theory, that the whole area is bathed in microwave radiation across many frequencies and this wrt the dpi has the effect of raising the temperature of the snow closer to it's melt point. It might explain why although most of them didn't have footwear there is little sign of frostbite (save for the 2 yuris and that doesn't fit with it being frostbite imo).
2. Apparently in radio terms the human body acts as a lossy dipole with a resonant frequency that varies between vhf and uhf depending on size and gender.

So it's possible that this radiation could have an effect on ID's posture at death, i'd guess at electrical rather than heat energy as the muscles have to maintain the pose until the body freezes and there no sign of body heat melting the snow as in the case of RS.

Or he could just have died whilst trying to adjust his clothing of course Happy
mkk 08-05-2017 02:36 (GMT)
@Nigel--"with the microwave field debilitating them and bringing them to their knees as they try and ascend into it..." Any possibility that might account for Dyatlov's vaguely pugilistic-stance without noticeable surface burns? If microwaves (depending on the length?) heat muscles before surface tissue. (Not sure I'm understanding microwaves and their effects correctly)
Nigel Evans 07-05-2017 22:58 (GMT)
Good video on Hessdalen suggesting (imo) that lights and ufos are different versions of the same thing.
Don't miss the end from 39.00, nice "string of pearls" and what seems to be the current scientific knowledge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKlwlYiXuic
Nigel Evans 07-05-2017 12:32 (GMT)
@Lightning - Hi, checkout http://ball-lightning.info/ if you haven't seen it before.

As to their cause lets not forget that our science cannot currently explain them.
So we're in the domain of conjecture.
Empirically it's my guess is that any atmospheric phenomena that creates an electron avalanche can result in ball lightning - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche, once you have the ionisation then the effects follow from it.

There is clearly a connection with the frequency of witnessed accounts with locality e.g. Hessdalen and Dyatlov so some ground effect might be involved, possibly metal ore, e.g. Hessdalen is a very ore rich area. But there is conjecture of some other phenomena - a geo motor creating earthquake lights etc. Lets not forget Tunguska is impossible to explain with a bolide only theory.

As to your question wrt cloudless night/no storm don't forget we're talking about macro atmospheric events here, people have been killed by lightning on a sunny day with hardly a cloud in the sky "a bolt out of the blue" - http://www.iflscience.com/environment/world-record-longest-ever-lightning-bolt-shocks-scientists/ n.b. this the longest currently recorded, nature has probably exceeded this by an order of magnitude.

But wrt the DPI, i think the evidence is strong that a BL event (as photographed by SZ and reported by another ski party) injured the two Yuris forcing the group to withdraw to the forest in the expectation of returning quickly. This didn't happen and subsequently the two Yuris die of their injuries. The ravine deaths are caused either by ball lightning exploding or a powerful lightning bolt hitting the stream and creating an explosion in the snowbank. The deaths of the remaining three are due to cold with the microwave field debilitating them and bringing them to their knees as they try and ascend into it (they expire within 330 metres of each other with facial scratches, signs of vomiting).


Lightning 07-05-2017 10:44 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans. But the problem with the Handel's Maser-Soliton Theory of ball lightning doesn't explain how it can form without storm. There are several reports that it has occured in cloudless night without any storm. http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/bl.html Several reports on this webpage.
Nigel Evans 06-05-2017 18:23 (GMT)
@Rol88 - have a look at this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning N.B. the word "microwave" occurs 27 times.

My favourite is the Handel Maser-Soliton theory. My theory (and perhaps of others i don't know) is that (wrt the dpi) the high winds reproduced horizontally what happens vertically in thunderstorms, i.e. creating seperation of charge between the clouds and the ground. But instead of this discharging as lightning the wind vortices move this ionisation in effect reproducing a magnetron generating microwaves which bounce between the earth and the sky as in a waveguide. These waves interfere with each other and by a process similar to aquatic rogue waves a soliton forms that is persistent.

But the answer lies in the future.

Good point about the burnt clothes, but that might be answered by the human bodies acting as aerials with a resonant frequency creating very localised heat on and within the body.

I wouldn't expect the bamboo pole to be scorched the internal moisture just has to expand and it will split.
Rol88 06-05-2017 16:30 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans: I have never heard of this GLO microwave theory you keep on referring to . I only read about : 1- The chemical theory 2- The plasma theory which seems to be the most pertinent . I also read that some Israeli guys were able to generate some micro GLOs ( which lasted few microseconds) by putting a block of Silicium in a modified microwave. That doesn't mean that GLOs are actually generating microwaves...Or do they ? Please enlighten us.I would appreciate you tell us more about it
Anyway IF it was the case why the damp fabrics of the clothes and the leather of the boots- which both retain moisture thus making them heat fast when exposed to microwaves -left inside the tent were intact ? Also in reference to the broken bamboo pole , it did not display any scorched patch . Unlike the burnt clothes found on some of the hikers BTW. But it could have been electrical burns from lightning as well sustained under the treeline .
Nigel Evans 06-05-2017 12:54 (GMT)
@Rol88 - coming back to you wrt the electrical burns in the tent and there being no sign of burning on the tent or it's contents.

What if their injuries were not electrical burns but microwave burns? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn This explains how they were injured in the tent without any burning elsewhere. The tent fabric would perhaps have got hot but not enough to discolour as it would take longer to heat up being colder and with a covering of snow, the damp cavities within the bamboo pole heated quickly and split it.
Perhaps the radiation was only intense at one end of the tent as the BL passed near, just affecting the pole and two occupants who in effect shielded the others.
Now you have your reason for cutting the tent open and getting everyone out as fast as possible.

@Kac - you copy and paste the image's url and when you click submit the website converts it into a link that people can click on.
E.g. - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-12.jpg
Kac 06-05-2017 05:20 (GMT)
First i am curious what the religions of member of the group were if known?
Second is there a way to post two pictures? There are 2 pictures on cora hull website of an angled looking object and i noticed how very similiar they look to the black knight satellite. Thank u
mkk 05-05-2017 20:44 (GMT)
@Nigel-- Impressive internet searching; thanks!!
Nigel Evans 05-05-2017 10:33 (GMT)
@testinger - the book "Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secrets" lists all it's references at the back (121) virtually all of them are links to Russian web sites.
Nigel Evans 05-05-2017 10:19 (GMT)
@testinger - sorry i mixed up you and MB Happy
Nigel Evans 05-05-2017 10:18 (GMT)
@MB - yes that's a good source of original transcripts.

@mkk - i've found your almanac look at - http://fond-dyatlov.livejournal.com/ in google translate.

Apparently the first print run was sold out...
testinger 05-05-2017 00:05 (GMT)
Thanks, Nigel, for clarifying state of flashlights as found:
1. Flashlight at tent, switch in OFF position, working.
2. Flashlight some way down the slope, switch in ON position, not working.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/ is exactly what I was looking for, but I am also dependent on Google Translate. It seems that Chrome's built in translation option does not return the same results as Google's manual translate tool: https://translate.google.com For Example:
that 100 meters below the tent was found a flashlight turned on with battery burned that belonged to someone who died of the participants group.
Becomes:
that about 100 meters below the tent was found an electric flashlight in the switched on state with a burnt out battery belonging to one of the participants of the deceased group.
which I prefer, because it is less ambiguous.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 19:37 (GMT)
@MB - just to confirm i'm talking about two flashlights :-
1.left on the tent switched off.
2. the other left down the slope switched on with a drained battery.

N.B. There seems to be some difference of opinion from members of the rescue party as to (2) distance from the tent 100 or 400 metres.

Imo (1) was the toilet flashlight that they didn't have time to collect. and (2) was deliberately placed as a beacon for the return to the tent.

As you say it's an important pivotal point, imo the facts point to that they had to flee the tent immediately but from a threat that didn't pursue them down the slope and that they expected to go away enabling their return, hence the beacon.

MB 04-05-2017 16:40 (GMT)
Nigel thats an interesting point- whether that tent flashlight was left on or off is a critical point either way. Consider:

-If it was turned on when found, it was obviously left as a beacon. No other reason to leave a perfectly good flashlight in the dead of night.
-If it was turned off, you're probably right, it was left there in case anyone needed to leave the tent in the night. The only alternative would be that it was placed there turned off out of hand as they fled the tent, which is crazy.
-Now if it WAS turned off, why didnt anybody think to pick it up knowing that 'thats where we keep the flashlight' as they are leaving the tent. That gives you an important indication of their state of mind, quite aside from abandoning their boots and clothes so abruptly. Just grabbing that flashlight would be a high priority in the dead of night, frightened by something. But nobody did. Either they fled in such a panic (which the tracks dont support) that they didnt have 2 seconds to grab a critical source of light, or *something about the tent made it impossible or unsafe*. That would perhaps support the fire/smoke filled tent theory.

-Now if we suppose the flashlight was left on, it was surely placed there and left intentionally. If someone was willing to do that, why werent they willing to reach in the tent and grab whatever gear was at hand? You have a flashlight, there are gaping holes in the tent, you stop to put the flashlight on top of the tent (obviously with the knowledge youre about to leave the tent vicinity), but you dont think to grab a blanket or valenki or just some random stuff that would be in arms reach? You have the presence of mind and critical seconds to place a flashlight, but not to do anything else.

Doesnt resolve much, but whether that flashlight was on or off sends your down two different theory paths I think.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 16:17 (GMT)
@mkk - apparently the newspaper - "Tagil Worker" that published the eye witness account of the colliery manager of the "lights and explosions" got into trouble because military testing did take place and was top secret of course and definately not for reporting. Which hints at the paranoia of those times, so it's easy to see how management would play safe and assume everything was a state secret even if it wasn't.

Playing with google translate i get multiple versions of "выгоревшей," as burnt out or faded. So i'll assume they mean a discharged battery unless any Russian speakers tell me otherwise.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 15:56 (GMT)
Thinking about flashlights it suddenly occurred to me what the purpose of the other flashlight found on the tent outside could be.

Perhaps it was for trips to the toilet in the night.

The first rule of trekking is that if you need to go to the toilet "for a dump" then you take a shovel to dig a hole and put some decent distance between you and the campsite.

So if you want to do this in the middle of the night when everyone is asleep then rather than have people searching for a flashlight that may have been placed anywhere by the last person to use it, it is kept at the agreed place preferably just outside the entrance so that people are less disturbed when you turn it on.

That's why it was found on top of 10cm of snow, as people used it it was placed back on top of the snow.

Apparently all seven of the felt boots (valenki) were found placed along the side of the tent that didn't suffer the slits. It makes sense that as part of the same "toilet procedure" they would keep these boots at the bottom of their designated "bed" (i'm assuming that they slept tranversely and all in the same direction Laughing to easily reach them in the dark. Then they would step over their sleeping comrades, open the entrance and find the "toilet flashlight" outside ready to use. Doubly important of course in whiteout conditions. It may be even that they turned the torch on and left it at the tent illuminating the snow and only went away as far as they could still see it.

The fact that these felt boots organised down the side of the tent were left behind (with this torch) really does indicate the speed at which they abandoned the tent. You would only need a couple of seconds to reach down and pick them up.

Also wrt my last post does anyone speak Russian? I'd love a more detailed translation of "burned battery", burnt or discharged? Microwaves?
mkk 04-05-2017 15:45 (GMT)
@Nigel-- Sure, I agree to those points. There's no way everything was totally square and above-board with the investigation. I didn't mean to imply that. I was speaking more to the idea that "the government knows the real truth and they're hiding it." (Not that I'm accusing you of promoting that idea, but I've read posts that seem to say that.)

There's a distinct feel of uncertainty about the whole thing. Authorities seemed confused and edgy, uncertain which information to suppress and which to allow. If they were determined to cover it up completely, they would have. They would have gotten in there before the amateur rescue crews arrived, wiped it clean, and invented a plausible story for the whole thing. At the very least, they would have prepared a reasonable explanation for the deaths and then stuck to it.

In mystery novels, the plot is often made more circuitous and involved because innocent characters are hiding something and inadvertently thwart the efforts of the detectives. Weirdly, the government efforts at concealment have a similar feel about them. With a bit of tongue-in-cheek, I'm attributing it to the habitual MO communist authorities, but it may be something much more interesting.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 12:51 (GMT)
@MB - putting this link - https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/dopros-svidetela-atmanaki through google translate gives :-
"in addition, that 100 meters below the tent was found a flashlight turned on with battery burned that belonged to someone who died of the participants group. "

Hence the view that it was left at that position to assist the groups return.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 08:10 (GMT)
@mkk - two reasons to believe in a coverup :-
1. Ivanov was told to desist from investigating fireballs and to remove all evidence for them from his report.
2. If the photos attributed to SZ are genuine then there MUST be more, YK's camera was on a tripod.

It could be an "innocent" coverup, i.e. middle ranking officers assuming that the fireballs were man made and playing safe with their jobs.
Or otherwise.

@MB - i'm not sure about the flasdhlight being turned off, it's not mentioned here - http://ermakvagus.com/Europe/Russia/Cholat-%20Syachil/Kholat%20Syakhl.htm
mkk 04-05-2017 00:55 (GMT)
I've been perusing Svetlana Oss's site http://www.svetlanaoss.com/blog/category/dyatlov-pass/ She has some interesting things to say about the matter, and has obviously done a lot of research. I haven't read everything on the site--and I haven't read her book--but she does seem to have a pretty good grasp of the historical/cultural elements at the time of the DPI. I particularly appreciate her explanation of why she doesn't believe it was a cover-up of a government mistake: in short, it wasn't covered up well enough.

I have often thought something similar myself. It's as if the government's knee-jerk response was to squelch too many questions, but they didn't really know what they were supposed to be covering up.

An imaginary conversation high up in government some time afterward:
"Why did you go to so much trouble to try to cover it up?"
"Well, if you'd done it, wouldn't you want it covered up?"
"But no one did it--it was just lightning!"
"How was I to know that? I was just doing my job!"

http://www.svetlanaoss.com/blog/dyatlov-pass/why-i-dont-believe-that-the-dyatlov-pass-incident-was-a-cover-up/
testinger 04-05-2017 00:51 (GMT)
Thanks, MB, for pointing out my error. I am sorry. The flashlights were in the off position when found, as stated clearly here:
http://dyatlov-pass.com/tent On the top of the tent under 5-10 cm of snow lay Dyatlov's flashlight (made in China). Boris Slobtzov picked it up and turned it on - the flashlight was in working condition.
Second flashlight was found switched off and battery discharged 400m down the slope.

So that leaves only the lack of footprints, and the fact that the hikers built a fire where it would reveal their location, as arguments against human attacker(s). The additional footprints might have been missed, if they were only near the tent, and the attackers skied in the hikers' tracks. Perhaps the reason for the the climbing of the cedar tree was to keep a lookout and alert the others if the attackers were coming. The attackers may have slept in the tent and cut their way out in the morning, simply because it was easier than going through the door. And there are many other attack scenarios that would result in the tent being cut from the inside. Imagination runs wild.
MB 03-05-2017 19:28 (GMT)
testinger, thats a great thought on the flashlights, but the flashlight on the tent was found turned off and still working by the searchers. The one further down the slope was supposedly found turned off as well, but wasnt working (perhaps it was thrown away in frustration).
MB 03-05-2017 19:13 (GMT)
I find it interesting that Slobodin and Kolevatov had matches... and not the two that died by the cedar tree fire.
I think that suggests they intentionally split the matches, and very likely at the cedar tree. The Kolevatov group continued down the slope and fell into a ravine. Slobodin perhaps went back to the tent to gather supplies (inadvertently carrying off the matches) he falls, hits his head, and freezes.
Doroshenko and Krivonischenko freeze to death, Kolmogorova and Dubinina split the clothing of the dead and try to make for the tent, dying in route.
Nigel Evans 02-05-2017 21:48 (GMT)
@testinger - but you have several eye witness accounts and photographs already of the dyatlov lights from that era?

I'm surprised that with the Hessdalen lights, given they have been so repeatable that they're not sending up drones with cameras and sensors, seems an obvious step. Unless high winds are a common associated factor of course...

Personally i'd like to know the microwave profile as you get close to these lights.
testinger 02-05-2017 21:12 (GMT)
Since the hikers, seemingly acting carefully to allow themselves to find their way back to the tent, left one flashlight on at the tent, and a second one ~420m down the slope ( http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-flashlight.jpg), and since they built a fire at the edge of the woods, and since no tracks other than theirs were found, they were probably not fleeing a person, or people. Since whatever caused them to leave the tent, caused them to leave immediately, without the few seconds delay required to put on their boots or to take turns going out through the door, the threat must have been perceived to be certainly presently deadly. Furthermore, once outside the tent, the threat was such as to prevent them from going back inside the tent for any gear. Even a nausea and panic inducing infra sound event, as severe as the worst flu, or worse, would probably allow some of the hikers to get their boots. If the tent had only filled up with smoke from something burning, they would have seen, once outside, that the tent was not on fire, and waited for the smoke to dissipate before going back inside. A single, brief ball lightning event, probably would not be enough to cause them to flee without footwear, but if there was occurring a persistent ball lightning, for some reason attracted to the tent, or multiple ball lightnings, attracted to, or even arising within, the tent, that could have been surprising enough, and unfamiliar enough, that everyone there was sufficiently terrified, and or possibly even literally shocked. But the ball lightning theory seems testable, by placing detectors at the location of the tent, for the duration of a winter, or even for several years. Since ball lightning is visible, could you not just use a camera and some software which looks for glowing circular shapes, filtering out the sun and moon? The cameras and a computer could be solar powered, and the data could be offloaded wirelessly, no? Probably I am naive, and missing the reasons why this would not work, but it is terrible, not knowing.
Nigel Evans 02-05-2017 16:32 (GMT)
@Roll88 - yes i wouldn't be surprised if the Soviets were trying to induce and control the phenomena, i.e. weaponise it and wanted ground observers.
Then it all went wrong and they ordered Ivanov to remove fireballs from his report.
But i think the danger with the DPI lights is due to it's composition which suggests differences with Hessdalen.
Interesting section at the beginning of this video about treetops - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0tbOLtv_mI Less interesting afterwards.
Rol88 02-05-2017 15:18 (GMT)
@mkk great news ! @Nigel Evans : What a coincidence ! Few days ago I posted you a message suggesting the GLO could have been man made . At least it does give some explanation why the hikers seemed to have been literally ''targeted'' by a natural phenomenon . What is striking is the fact that in the Norwegian locality of Hessdalen which is at the same latitude with Mount Kholyat , GLOs are very frequently observed but unlike on mount Kholyat there has never been any casualties (despite the fact the Hessdalen region does have some population unlike Mt Kholyat )
User45 02-05-2017 12:10 (GMT)
What a coincidence. Published at the same exact minute. Lol. Thanks.
User45 02-05-2017 12:09 (GMT)
@nigel I'm sorry, but where exactly at Camera should I look at? I can not find a picture titled ''three head''
Nigel Evans 02-05-2017 12:09 (GMT)
@User45 - if you haven't found it use this link - http://dyatlov-pass.com/controversy#zolotaryovcamera
Nigel Evans 02-05-2017 09:45 (GMT)
@User45 - checkout the "three heads" photo under CAMERAS.
User45 02-05-2017 08:42 (GMT)
A question; exactly what picture is showing the supposed ball of lightning?
User45 02-05-2017 08:06 (GMT)
'' In the researcher's opinion, the version of the group's having ties with the KGB is also supported by the fact that only four of the ten rolls of film from all the cameras have remained and it is unknown what happened to the rest. ''

What I would give to obtain those rolls...
Nigel Evans 01-05-2017 21:27 (GMT)
@mkk - it's new to me.
mkk 01-05-2017 21:08 (GMT)
https://www.sott.net/article/322880-Researcher-claims-Dyatlov-pass-mystery-victims-could-have-been-on-KGB-mission very similar write-up: http://www.our-russia.com/22072016234636/title-not-yet Anyone have information whether this proposed "almanac" has been published?
Nigel Evans 30-04-2017 16:14 (GMT)
@Rol88 - yes it is possible that the GLO's were man made, as stated before military hardware like parachute flares/mines (or something like that) does fit a lot of the evidence. Except of course that there were no signs of military hardware. But it was extremely windy so could have blown away.

Wrt the intoxication theory they demonstrate quite logical ordered behaviour, built a fire and a den, laid out the two Yuris side by side showing respect, SZ found trying to write in his notebook.
Nigel Evans 30-04-2017 16:00 (GMT)
@Rol88 - I'm afraid i'm going to have to challenge your facts here :-

From wikipedia :-

12-year-old Yury Kuntsevich, who would later become head of the Yekaterinburg-based Dyatlov Foundation (see below), attended five of the hikers' funerals, and recalls their skin had a "deep brown tan".[2]
Another group of hikers (about 50 kilometres south of the incident) reported that they saw strange orange spheres in the night sky to the north on the night of the incident.[2] Similar spheres were observed in Ivdel and adjacent areas continually during the period from February to March 1959, by various independent witnesses (including the meteorology service and the military).[2]

So the coffins were not closed.
N.B. the eye witness accounts of the lights include explosions.

My understanding of the pilot's statement was that he thought he saw two bodies lying outside the tent before it was found. Not that it was surrounded by soldiers, can you point to were this is stated?

The boot cover could have been mislaid by the rescue group or mansi hunters that kept some kit when they returned from service. It's not a strong piece of evidence.





Rol88 30-04-2017 15:16 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans :Anyway these supposed GLO seem to be too ''intelligent'' in pursuing and burning the hikers. Have it ever occured to you it MIGHT have been experimental man made GLOs tested as weapons ? KGB may have cynically sent these youth as guinnea pigs or something went out very wrong ...
Another interesting theory which was not explored thoroughly : Food intoxication due to contamination by hallucinogenic ergot or some other substance. I don't know if any test was performed on the food they had before the events break up ... It would very much explain their erratic behaviour in the night .
Rol88 30-04-2017 14:56 (GMT)
Nigel Evans : The replacement of the prosecutor, the interest of 2 presidents and the ''story'' of the high officers are relevant enough to point out against your GLO theory , simply because they make you suspect a simpler and more brutal death of the hikers ie military or KGB liquidation and cover-up : Let me put it this way , if someone gets electrocuted by a lightning in a trip to the mountains there will be a very straightforward and short inquiry , no officer would be demoted, the verdict would be cristal clear , no president would follow the inquiry because it is a casual accident
and everybody would be allowed to see the body and pay respect, even in the USSR.
.In this case what did we see instead ? the 1st prosecutor was decommissioned days later ( Forget about Ivanov's declaration he was the servant of the System and would write exactly what he is told ) , 2 presidents found the case strange enough to closely follow the case, the bodies were delivered in sealed metal coffins with no permission to open them ,an officer comes to the funeral of Dubinina and tells a story about a GLO which did not hurt anyone ...
And when you add to all these points the fact that a pilot saw from his plane ( and reported it ) the tent surrounded by soldiers days before the rescuer party ( who BTW found a boot cover , an item used only by soldiers) among the items in the tent and the fact that soldiers came with a Geiger device to test radioactivity on the corpses one must admit the Soviet authorities knew - at least partially- beforehand what happened to the hikers.
And what happened could very much be something more than a casual accident due to natural meteorological phenomena such as lightning or GLO strike(s) otherwise all the aforementioned measures taken by the the Soviet authorities would not have been necessary....
Nigel Evans 29-04-2017 12:34 (GMT)
Rol88 - answering your against points

1- No scorched fabric in the tent so how come 2 hikers were badly burned by GLO and the tent did not display even one mm2 of burned fabric ?
Perhaps they were burnt outside the tent then? I don't see how this is argues againt the GLO theory, just a detail.

2- The fact they left the tent in good order : if a GLO turns into a ''roller'' and heads to your tent at the speed of 5-6 m/s , or even explodes few meters away, well, you won't leave your tent -barefoot !- in good order... But again, Dyatlov left his jacket and torch behind, next to the tent which doesn't plead much for the '' organized temporary retreat '' ...
Perhaps there weren't any rollers. The GLO theory doesn't depend on them, maybe there were two aerial objects an hour or so apart.

3- GLOs , according to many testimonies, are limited phenomena in time (few sec to few min max) and number ( usually one GLO per observation) Most of the encounters with GLOs leave the witnesses unharmed even if in some few cases one witness is burned or hurt, It is extremely unlikely a GLO 'strikes'' the tent or next to it burning 2 hikers , another GLO or lightning pursue the hikers to the cedar tree and burn its apex then again explodes in the den, thus generating the horrible lesions of Thibeaux ,Zolotaryov and Dubinina . If this incident was due to orbs , then one must assume these orbs or GLOs were not natural phenomena striking or moving randomly but that some malevolent intelligence was behind these '' surgical targeted strikes''
This is a good point, the ability of GLOs to target people is well documented and can only be properly explained in the future when there is a proper scientific explanation for them (not currently). I would guess at the metal content of mammals together with their electric nervous system interfering with the "microwave standing wave system" such that they act as attractions. But just my guess, until science can answer what these objects are then we're left with only the empirical fact that GLOs do exhibit targeting behaviour.

4- As for what the officer confided to the victim's parents it could very much be a story to divert their suspiscions from a KGB ''operation'' . I lived once in a country run by a foreign intelligence service and I know what I am talking about : in order to keep people away of their dirty deeds and divert their attention elsewhere , they would make up now and then a new bogus '' story '' a scandal, such as : singers or celebrities caught practicing group sex , a new satanist sect in the country etc and so on .... the story of the officer could very much be a fairy tale ....
I refer you to my previous post, you have to explain why they were afraid to remain at the tent but unafraid to light a fire 1500 meres away.

5- The fact President Khrutchev is said to have personally followed the inquiry
So did Boris Yeltsin. I don't see how this is against the GLO theory?

6- the 1st chief prosecutor was decommissioned days after he opened the inquiry if they were struck by lightning or ''normal'' GLO s so why all this paranoid secrecy ...
Not relevant to the GLO theory imo.

Imo Soviet authorities know much more than what they are willing to say . They are at least partially responsible to what happened to the hikers. The extent of their responsibility is yet to be defined . We will never know what really happened because some of the clues are still kept secret , some others were purposely flawed . I heard Keith Mcloskey on Youtube and he spoke a lot about the culture of secrecy in USSR . Some reminiscence is still lingering in Russian Federation until now....
For sure there was a culture of secrecy, but not relevant to the GLO/not GLO question imo.
Nigel Evans 29-04-2017 12:17 (GMT)
gtulloch/Rol88 - one of the fascinating questions of the dpi is what threat could have made them leave the shelter of the tent (that is afraid to stay there) but unafraid to light a fire 1500 metres away?"
This seems to rule out many types of threat, basically from any intelligence be it human or non human (yetis/aliens etc).
This single fact very strongly suggests some form of natural threat such as the one in SZ's photographs - presumed to be ball lightning. This was the conclusion of Ivanov the head of the investigation and the opinion of the local mansi people.
Rol88 29-04-2017 11:31 (GMT)
The teargas theory is interesting it would have been easy to toss a tergas bomb in the tent from the tent's entrance but again doesn't fit the absence of footsteps other than the hikers on the snow. It seems that 2 of t he group went out to relieve themselves , maybe Zolotaryov and Thibeaux because they were better dressed. By the way did anyone notice the tent entrance does NEVER show on any Photo taken ? A very strange detail.....
gtulloch 29-04-2017 08:55 (GMT)
@Roll88 I thought about the gunpoint idea as well, but the rips from the interior of the tent didn't fit well to the theory. It also doesn't explain all the rest of the findings as thoroughly.
gtulloch 29-04-2017 08:50 (GMT)
@Roll88~I didn't mention ball lightning. I suspect a chemical gas, like tear gas in the tent and everyone evacuates, unable to see and breath, thus extremely vulnerable. Several of the bodies had bled from the nose and lips, and two had fluid in their lungs, and the two that were outside the tent either ran from the attackers or were the attackers.
Rol88 29-04-2017 07:35 (GMT)
@ The search party found an unusual item among the hikers's in the tent : A military boot cover. Yuri Yudin said it did not belong to any of the hikers. It seems that soldiers were behind what happened or at least ''visited '' the tent before the searching party...
Rol88 29-04-2017 07:23 (GMT)
@gtulloch the ball lightning theory does not explain everything. If they left the tent ''in good order'' then it looks as if someone drove them out of it under gunpoint. The only thing is that there is no evidence of extra footsteps on the snow but again it happened in USSR and this is what they want us to believe !
gtulloch 29-04-2017 05:26 (GMT)
Tear gas-When people are hit at close range or are severely exposed, eye injuries involving scarring of the cornea can lead to a permanent loss in visual acuity
gtulloch 29-04-2017 05:23 (GMT)
From one of the people in the party or from someone on the outside. I feel the theories involving either the CIA or KGB to be most plausible as to the why. The party may have even been blinded, thus they could not find the way back to their supplies. The possible removal of tongue and eyes would maybe indicate an effort to hide evidence of chemical burns.
gtulloch 29-04-2017 05:19 (GMT)
An idea about the tent. Question what would cause them to leave by ripping the sides of the tent not through the entrance? Smoke? Tear gas? Tear gas works by irritating mucous membranes in the eyes, nose, mouth and lungs, and causes crying, sneezing, coughing, difficulty breathing, pain in the eyes, and temporary blindness. Which would explain cutting the sides of the tent to get out, the burns on the victims, leaving with only underclothes and the subsequent disorientation of the party. Where did it come from?
Rol88 28-04-2017 20:44 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans :Look, I really like the GLO( or UFO ?) theory but it doesn't explain all the facts. Some facts do plead for and some, but others against .For : 1- The 4m diam solidified ice surface near the tent 2- The camera of YK on the make shift tripod 3- the broken bamboo ski pole 4- to some -limited- extent the -damaged- film of Semen Zolotaryov showing lights on a dark background but again the film was damaged after 3 months under melting snow and many consider it worthless 5- the burn lesions on the bodies of Krivo and Doro 6- The testimonies of the other hikers group who saw light orbs. 7- The officer who came to the funeral and ''confided'' to the victims parents that soldiers camping there were ''attacked'' by orbs , hid in the tent and survived. Against :1- No scorched fabric in the tent so how come 2 hikers were badly burned by GLO and the tent did not display even one mm2 of burned fabric ? 2- The fact they left the tent in good order : if a GLO turns into a ''roller'' and heads to your tent at the speed of 5-6 m/s , or even explodes few meters away, well, you won't leave your tent -barefoot !- in good order... But again, Dyatlov left his jacket and torch behind, next to the tent which doesn't plead much for the '' organized temporary retreat '' ... 3- GLOs , according to many testimonies, are limited phenomena in time (few sec to few min max) and number ( usually one GLO per observation) Most of the encounters with GLOs leave the witnesses unharmed even if in some few cases one witness is burned or hurt, It is extremely unlikely a GLO 'strikes'' the tent or next to it burning 2 hikers , another GLO or lightning pursue the hikers to the cedar tree and burn its apex then again explodes in the den, thus generating the horrible lesions of Thibeaux ,Zolotaryov and Dubinina . If this incident was due to orbs , then one must assume these orbs or GLOs were not natural phenomena striking or moving randomly but that some malevolent intelligence was behind these '' surgical targeted strikes'' 4- As for what the officer confided to the victim's parents it could very much be a story to divert their suspiscions from a KGB ''operation'' . I lived once in a country run by a foreign intelligence service and I know what I am talking about : in order to keep people away of their dirty deeds and divert their attention elsewhere , they would make up now and then a new bogus '' story '' a scandal, such as : singers or celebrities caught practicing group sex , a new satanist sect in the country etc and so on .... the story of the officer could very much be a fairy tale .... 5- The fact President Khrutchev is said to have personally followed the inquiry 6- the 1st chief prosecutor was decommissioned days after he opened the inquiry if they were struck by lightning or ''normal'' GLO s so why all this paranoid secrecy ... Imo Soviet authorities know much more than what they are willing to say . They are at least partially responsible to what happened to the hikers. The extent of their responsibility is yet to be defined . We will never know what really happened because some of the clues are still kept secret , some others were purposely flawed . I heard Keith Mcloskey on Youtube and he spoke a lot about the culture of secrecy in USSR . Some reminiscence is still lingering in Russian Federation until now....
Nigel Evans 28-04-2017 15:39 (GMT)
@Rol88 - "Was it the observation of special phenomena in the sky or contact with US spies ?"

Well you don't need a second camera to make contact with US spies, his mission was to observe special phenomena in the sky and photograph it. The photos suggest that is what he did.
Lightning 28-04-2017 15:38 (GMT)
@ROL88 It didn't hit the tent directly. There was a cold spot some distance away. A place where snow had melt and freeze again, diameter about 4 meters. As Nigel Evans stated before.
Rol88 28-04-2017 14:54 (GMT)
Sorry guys posted it twice !
Rol88 28-04-2017 14:52 (GMT)
@Lightning : If the tent was struck with lightning they would have barely found its ashes ! It would had immediately set the tent ablaze !
Rol88 28-04-2017 14:52 (GMT)
@Lightning : If the tent was struck with lightning they would have barely found its ashes ! It would had immediately set the tent ablaze !
Rol88 28-04-2017 14:46 (GMT)
User45 : Good point Thibeaux promised his Mom it would be his last expedition as if it were his last mission ? Nigel Evans Why the secrecy .? Almost certainly because the Soviet auhorities unofficially commissioned some of the hikers a special mission. Was it the observation of special phenomena in the sky or contact with US spies ? Again we will never know . One thing is for sure , KGB was behind and watching closely . After all the hike was dedicated to the 21st Meeting of the USSR Communist Party...
Lightning 28-04-2017 09:51 (GMT)
Maybe they weren't running out of tent because i was taught at school when there is lightning you must not run and you don't want to be in open field or under single tree. Their tent was in open field and 1079 above sea level.
Nigel Evans 26-04-2017 11:52 (GMT)
@User 45 - " It makes me think that some members knew what this expedition would mean but did not expect the particular outcome of it"

Almost certainly. The fact that Yudin did not know about SZ's camera (or it's purpose) suggests that only some members knew. I would guess at SZ, ID, AK and YK.

A more interesting question is why the secrecy? Why deceive other members of the group?
User45 26-04-2017 10:38 (GMT)
(Yuri Alexeevich Krivonischenko - Georgiy)

1)''working in Chelyabinsk - 40 a secret nuclear facility''
2)''His body will wear clothes that have traces of radioactivity that some trace to this particular event ''

I find this very odd. The background stories from some members are very sucpecious leading up to the Kholat events. It makes me think that some members knew what this expedition would mean but did not expect the particular outcome of it. ''Nikolai promised his mother that this would be his last hiking trip''



Nigel Evans 25-04-2017 17:17 (GMT)
@User45 - hi, glad someone's reading this Happy

Apparently the KGB archives for this period are kept locked for some time to come (2030?) but in the future could become public domain. So there might be an answer one day.

It's almost certain that photos or even complete camera rolls were hidden from the report. Ivanov said that material was removed and expressed his guilt at not giving relatives closure. What could this material be other than photos? If SZ's are genuine then there have to be more, YK's camera was on a tripod. They cut several slits to observe something. It's a no brainer imo.
User45 25-04-2017 12:27 (GMT)
@nigel @rest... Thank you for keeping this subject alive and discuss the things we need to talk about. I come back every day to read about your theories and missing/new information!

I believe this is a story that will never be solved but will always be talked about for that exact reason.

A question of my own: All the camera's were found except for the one which could've captured the very last moments of the crew. It is still not found to this day. Any update on this?
Nigel Evans 24-04-2017 08:26 (GMT)
@mkk - good point but the main factor with the dpi will be wind chill. One local man stating that the wind was the worst he had known since moving there in 1951 (8 years earlier). The mansi told the investigators that the wind could be so strong it could blow man away. The last photographs indicate very strong winds.
In a similar vein, has anyone noticed that the two Yuris seem to suffer the worst frostbite even though they die first?
My guess is that the frostbite is misdiagnosed and is blackening from burning.
mkk 23-04-2017 21:16 (GMT)
Just wanted to comment on their leaving the tent without proper clothing. In the group diary, Dyatlov records the low temps for Jan 31 as "-18C to -24C". That's about 0F to -11F. (I'm in the US.) I remember more than once, while at college in northern Indiana, the fire alarms going off and everyone having to leave the dormitory in those temps. (It was usually someone who burnt the popcorn...) We would stand around outside for quite some time, waiting for the fire truck to arrive and the firemen to tell us it was okay to go back inside. Very few were wearing coats. Most of us had on sweaters, jeans, and slippers. In the snow, at temps below zero. It was uncomfortable, but you just laughed and made the best of it. It wasn't a huge deal.

It seems reasonable that they might have left expecting to return before too long. They were Russians; they were used to the cold. It wouldn't have had to be all the way up to 0C / 32F in order for them to be okay with less-than-compete wintertime-wear for a half hour or so.

The comment by Sonnet Fitzgerald (second response on this page
https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-someone-survive-in-0%C2%BA-celsius-I-read-somewhere-that-we-would-freeze-to-death-in-matter-of-ten-minutes-or-so-if-naked-Is-this-true ) is a good example of how many people in northern climates view cold weather.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 14:45 (GMT)
@Probal - autopsy stated both girls were virgins.
Probal 23-04-2017 14:24 (GMT)
The lady with the missing tongue: Was she sexually assaulted ? Her autopsy report is not as detailed as those of the other victims.

Pkghoshalta@hotmail.com

Cheers
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 14:06 (GMT)
@Rol88 - "Imo , they underestimated the threat and thought it won't last much and that's why they left a switched- on Chinese torch on the snow maybe as a ''beacon'' to help them in their way back so : 1- they thought they will recover the torch before the batteries are empty 2- They thought they are going to need it to come back to the tent while still in the dark . In other words they did not expect to spend the night out of the tent. But the'' threat'' persisted and kept them from going back to the tent and may have pursued them to the cedar and/or the den. "
Yes that's my theory.

But it might not have been so cold at the tent, if the microwave theory to explain ball lightning is correct then a large area could be warmed up (perhaps to say to +1C). The hot spot would have to be warmer to soften the snow of course. The snow found on the tent was peculiarly hard, the first members of the rescue party to arrive damaged the tent by having to use a ice pick to break through it. It is if it had been melted before refreezing. Ditto the ravine snow on top of the den, it had a similar composition like it had experienced heat.
Rol88 23-04-2017 13:19 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans: They acted rationnally by cutting their tent open and leaving it in the middle of the night by -26 DEG C almost barefoot ? I am sorry the threat was terrifying to make such tough people leave their tent so hastily and so unprepared . They knew very well that leaving the tent this way meant certainly frostbites , maybe death and still they took the risk...
Imo , they underestimated the threat and thought it won't last much and that's why they left a switched- on Chinese torch on the snow maybe as a ''beacon'' to help them in their way back so : 1- they thought they will recover the torch before the batteries are empty 2- They thought they are going to need it to come back to the tent while still in the dark . In other words they did not expect to spend the night out of the tent. But the'' threat'' persisted and kept them from going back to the tent and may have pursued them to the cedar and/or the den.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 06:32 (GMT)
@mkk - yes i believe they behaved rationally, an organised temporary retreat with an injured comrade makes sense to me.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 06:30 (GMT)
@Rol88 - YK's camera was found in the tent on a makeshift tripod so it's debatable how much secrecy there was. They were all good friends.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 06:27 (GMT)
@Rol88 - previously i said that there was no sign of scorching inside the tent but i've remembered about the bamboo pole that had been "cut" at every section. I remember reading somewhere that this was consistent with an electrical discharge flash heating the air inside each section splitting the wood.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 06:22 (GMT)
@John Tadlock - it sounds like ball lightning not St Elmo fire, BL coming down chimneys (or stove pipes) is a common occurence, the theory is that the carbon in the soot (and metal pipe in this case) act as a wave guide for microwaves.
Just guessing but you haven't seen the "three heads" photo yet? - http://dyatlov-pass.com/controversy#zolotaryovcamera The BL theory is that this is a photo of a much bigger orb and the "pop" you experienced was much more powerful with fatal consequences at the ravine.
mkk 23-04-2017 01:13 (GMT)
@JohnTadlock: I think Nigel has proposed something *like* that, regarding ball lightning, but perhaps not exactly the same.

I keep thinking about the hikers and what I've read about their behavior on previous hikes.

Lyuda had been shot in the leg and carried out on a stretcher--without losing her cool or her sense of humor.

Dyatlov had been in charge of a group when they were caught in a stampede of wild horses. He directed them to huddle together and stand perfectly still as the horses rushed toward them. Imagine the presence of mind he must have had, and the strength of character to get everyone else to do what would have felt so contrary to natural inclination! The horses, of course swerved around them and they were safe.

Doroshenko had attacked a bear with a geological hammer. His fellow hikers followed suit and they drove the bear away. Good grief!

Whatever it was, I have a hard time imagining this group fleeing the tent in mindless terror. There must have been some urgent, rational, reason that they chose a Siberian winter night over the confines of their tent. And chose to leave without proper clothing & supplies.

Rol88 22-04-2017 21:57 (GMT)
@ John Tadlock : They didn't use the stove the last night .They pitched their tent on the barren slope of Mt Kholyat Syakhl , where firewood was not available .
Rol88 22-04-2017 21:43 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans: Of course ! While some guys were shivering in the cold of the night , all what some others were thinking about was to take some few more pics for the comrades of the KGB and the XXI st communist party convention... A brawl would inevitably break up....
John Tadlock 22-04-2017 17:31 (GMT)
During the mid 1960s, while still a boy, I was camping with my father and grandfather duck hunting. It was strormy. The cabin we spent the night in had a stove, with an active coal fire, with a long stove pipe extending outside then up. At one point tiny balls of lighting appeared and skittered along the stove pipe, eventually falling to the floor, and then skittering across the wood floor before disappearing with a pop. The several balls of tiny lightning were fairly small, the size of a closed fist, each behaving sort of independently almost as if they were alive. The phenom lasted a minute or two. I was more intrigued rather than frightened. My grandfather said it was just St. Elmo's fire. Uncommon, but he had seen it before. I am wondering if something similar scared the hikers from their tent?
Nigel Evans 22-04-2017 14:59 (GMT)
@Rol88 - and a good reason for a fight to break out.
Nigel Evans 22-04-2017 11:57 (GMT)
@mkk - ID was the only member of the group to have the classic signs of hypothermia, full bladder, paradoxical undressing.

@Rol88 - i'd agree and it also explains why Ivanov was overruled about the fireballs.
Rol88 22-04-2017 08:19 (GMT)
@mkk : The fact Dyatlov did not file the exact details of his route seems to point out that Dyatlov and of course the presumed KGB agent(s) Zolotaryov wanted to keep the real task of the mission shrouded in secrecy under the cover of a very casual tourist hike in the mountains. Let us not forget the expedition was dedicated to the XXI st Meeting of the Communist Party. If they dedicated an expedition to the Everest ,to K2 0r even to Kilimanjaro it would have been understandable because it is a real feat but to Mt Otorten ??? Obviously at least some of them expected to come back with precious documented observations about some interesting phenomena...
mkk 21-04-2017 13:51 (GMT)
@Nigel, I agree with you. That's one reason I just can't quite get on board with the infrasound theory, although it seems reasonable at first. Not only do birds hear and respond to infrasound themselves, but it wouldn't explain their deaths.

Incidentally, my grandmother had an encounter with ball lightning when she was younger. No one was hurt.

Dyatlov's position, with his arms raised to his chest, looks quite similar to the "pugilistic stance" (boxer position) which occurs because of muscles tightening and shortening in contact with very high heat--as in a fire. It can happen even if the heat occurs after the person is dead. Curious, since evidence seems to point toward his dying of hypothermia & I haven't heard of any burns on him.
Nigel Evans 21-04-2017 08:25 (GMT)
@mkk - the dead birds are explained by an explosion which is the best explanation for the four ravine deaths.
mkk 21-04-2017 02:52 (GMT)
I remember reading in Eicher's book that, for some reason, Dyatlov hadn't properly filed the official paperwork specifically stating the route they were taking. As I understand it, this caused some delay at the beginning of the search. I haven't seen this point addressed in any of the discussion. It may be irrelevant, but it is suggestive.

Also, there was mention of a surprising number of dead ptarmigans found by the search crews. I think this fact should be addressed by any serious theories. (Even if the explanation is just that they died later--why?)

Also, I remember reading (I believe in Zina's diary?) that the group members argued one evening about whose turn it was to patch up the tent. Lyuda got angry and went off by herself, and so didn't participate in their little celebration of Doroshenko's birthday. But just now I couldn't find where I'd read that. Anyone remember? I feel like there was something said about stuffing the holes of the tent with clothing to keep out the drafts.
Nigel Evans 20-04-2017 14:06 (GMT)
Rol88 - that danger being a GLO as photographed by SZ.
Nigel Evans 20-04-2017 13:49 (GMT)
@Rol88 - there must have been an event at the tent that forced them to immediately leave without any preperation. Hence my interest in YK's burn. If he received that at the tent (inside or outside) then it would be sensible to quickly withdraw with the expectation that this was temporary. Hence the torch left on halfway down to assist. Imo it was a temporary retreat until the danger passed. But they had underestimated the danger, it didn't recede and later came at them.
Rol88 20-04-2017 13:03 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : What is your opinion regarding the jacket tucked in the hole of the tent ? Dyatlov was found quite lightly dressed you know with the jacket of Krivo ! How could he have relinquished such a precious item before leaving the tent ??? One more troubling detail !
Nigel Evans 20-04-2017 10:17 (GMT)
@Rol88 - I forgot about the jacket stuffed in the hole. Fair point, that and the lack of signs of scorching within the tent mitigates against a discharge inside.
One torch/lantern was placed on the tent presumably mislaid the other was found halfway down left turned on. It's very difficult to lose an illuminated torch in total darkness! A very high probability that it was left there to assist the return.

The treeline provided shelter, the means of a fire, snowbanks for caves/dens, branches to build into seats. And importantly a position to monitor the tent area. It was a sensible decision, I don't see the advantage in heading for the base camp.

They would have been cold and wet that night. Tough kids.

I'm not keen on the brawling theory but personal choice i guess, we'll never know for sure.
Rol88 20-04-2017 07:42 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : You wrote ''torch'' , I read somewhere ''lantern'' . Are we talking about the same items ?
Rol88 20-04-2017 07:27 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : Imo I don't think the GLO burst inside the tent , otherwise how would you explain the burns on the leg of Y.Krivo and Doro and no burnt fabric ? Such a blast would have set fire in the tent or at least leave some traces on the fabric but again the tent was lacerated from inside no trace of burns whatsoever...
Speaking of the tent : How do you explain they found the jacket of I. Dyatlov tucked in a hole of the tent ? A pitiful attempt to close the hole and keep some warmth in the tent ?
They also found 2 Chinese made lanterns on the slope on the mountain. Again doesn't make sense to leave them behind . The ''Event'' in the tent happened around 9 pm. It was pitch black outside ,they could never recover the lanterns before dawn when they would be useless to them.. They found lots of items in the pockets of the victims . Zolotaryov kept his camera and his note pad , so why would they leave the lanterns behind on the snow ??? :
As for the base camp : There was food , spare skis and Rustem's mandolin yes , but above all there was SHELTER from a freezing -28* c night but for some reason they did not want to or could not make it there... imo obviously because the whole expedition had a secret task ie to study strange phenomena ( which nature is subject to debate lets keep it for other posts) in the area. ID and for sure Comrade Zolotaryov would certainly not allow the rest of the group to leave the area and stop observing what was going on around the tent, even at the price of their lives ...
Imo it explains why they pitched the tent on the slope of Kholyat and not in the forest with no protection from the winds and no firewood . The last night under the tent must have been pretty cold...
This also may explain why the situation degenerated to a brawl later... ID died with his fists raised on his torso ...maybe he was still shouting swears and threats with Rustem until the last minute of his short life...
Nigel Evans 19-04-2017 16:13 (GMT)
@Rol88: btw feel free to challenge the theory, polite debate over different theories is what this page should be for.

"The 2 Yuris died of hypethermia their lesions were quite superficial of course YD had his hair burnt and his fingers and toes frostbitten but not to the point these lesions were life threatening. "
YK had a massive burn on his lower leg and foot 30cm in length that had charred the skin to the extent exposing tissue underneath. He had bit both hands, presumably to try and deal with the pain, one of them so hard that skin was found in his mouth.
Therefore (i assert) he was concious after the burn and so it is reasonable to suppose he was concious when he received it? Given the extent of this burn it is hard to attribute it to being accidental. Also YD had burns and it is imo difficult to explain them both as accidents from the fire, torture maybe but accidents no.
This burn is a copycat injury for the one received by the lady in the ball-lightning link below. Electrical discharge is a good explanation for this injury, possibly the best one.
Also the skin was found in his mouth which suggests that he bit his hand shortly before dying, this seems strange behaviour for death from hypothermia, shouldn't he be losing feeling in his hands by this time?

The base camp was out of sight around the mountain and only contained food, spare skis and a mandolin. It was of little use to them in surviving the night. They went to the cedar because they could see it from the tent, from it's top half they could observe the tent area. This imo strongly indicates that they wanted to return once the threat had receded and this tells us a lot about the threat that seems to rule out torture as a cause of YK/YD's burns. They also left a torch on halfway down the slope, imo to assist their return.

Rol88 19-04-2017 13:25 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans:'' YK and to some extent YD had horrific lesions'' ?? The 2 Yuris died of hypethermia their lesions were quite superficial of course YD had his hair burnt and his fingers and toes frostbitten but not to the point these lesions were life threatening. If there is something stumbling in this mad story , it is why on earth these people did not try to seek refuge in the base camp not very far down the hill where they could have found shelter, food and clothing . The den and the base camp were at the same distance from the tent and it would be very far fetched to speculate the GLO after storming into the tent stood also in their way to the base camp !
Nigel Evans 18-04-2017 13:35 (GMT)
@Rol88 -
"Maybe one GLO got into that tent and scared the hell out of them to the point they slit their tent open and left it in a hurry."
Or maybe one got in the tent and electrocuted YK and YD and blew the tent open as in the swiss case...

YK and to some extent YD had horrific lesions, the ravine four had barotrauma style injuries or as a result of mechanical impact (e.g. the side wall of the den pushed on them with great force.

"If we are going to put it all on the account of the GLO, then one needs to assume the hikers have been subjected to several GLOs pursuing them everywhere they go."
We'll never know, but it is possible that it was just the one GLO, which stayed at the tent for some time preventing them from returning but then converted into a roller, fell into the ravine upstream of the den and followed it downstream smashing through the den on it's journey. Burnt treetops are a common sign of lightning strikes and could be irrelevant to the dpi. Lightning is an alternative theory for the ravine event, the frozen stream possibly providing the best earth in the vicinity.
Rol88 17-04-2017 16:26 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans .Very interesting ! It does explain why- probably commissioned by KGB represented in the persons of Comrades Zolotaryov and Kolevatov - , Dyatlov (a radio engineer) pitched his tent, in the middle of nowhere in order to observe the'' ball lightning'' or GLO . Maybe one GLO got into that tent and scared the hell out of them to the point they slit their tent open and left it in a hurry. But does it also explain why the Cedar tree apex was burnt AND Dubinina 's , Thibeaux and Zolotaryovs sustained these horrific lesions ? If we are going to put it all on the account of the GLO, then one needs to assume the hikers have been subjected to several GLOs pursuing them everywhere they go - the tent, the cedar tree , and the den- like guided missiles ! And these phenomenons tend to be - according to the reports- quite isolated in time( few seconds or minutes ) and space ( one GLO reported at a time ) .
Nigel Evans 17-04-2017 12:34 (GMT)
http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Effects_%26_Injuries.html Some interesting overlap there with the DPI injuries and an alternative theory for how the tent was ripped open!
Nigel Evans 17-04-2017 11:49 (GMT)
Rol88 - no, probs, no probs!
Happy Easter.
Based on the injury profile it seems that only ID and RS hit anything/anyone with their fists.
Another curiosity are the amount of scratches and abrasions on the faces of ZK, RS and ID.
There is evidence that this is a feature of electro magnetic phenomena like ball lightning.
Rol88 17-04-2017 05:45 (GMT)
Nigel Evans I read my previous comment again and it seems I made some typing mistakes I was very sleepy sorry for the poor typing .
Rol88 17-04-2017 05:45 (GMT)
Nigel Evans I read my previous comment again and it seems I made some typing mistakes I was very sleepy sorry for the poor typing .
Rol88 15-04-2017 23:36 (GMT)
Nigel Evans : even if you're exhausted and confused you won't fall on your clenched fists you , you will always fall on your open palms. We can safely say there was definitely at some time a brawl between the members. Most probably Dyatlov had to answer about his bad decisions which stranded the hikers in the wild and caused the death of Doro and Krivo . Most probably Dyatlo had to defend his point of view with his fists. It is a detail but it would have consumed their body energy and hastened their demise on their way back to the tent.
As for the radiotransmitter Dyatlov was taking it on hikes but that time I think Dyatlov was asked by KGB which infiltrated the group with Zolotaryov not to take the radiotransmitter . Maybe they wanted to keep the mission top secret and didn't want any information leak on the - air.
Rol88 15-04-2017 22:59 (GMT)
Happy Easter everyone !
Nigel Evans 15-04-2017 11:24 (GMT)
Rol88 - yes YK my error.
For the record 330 metres apart.
ZK didn't have bruises on her hands, they are described as abrasions. She also has a wound on the back of her hand. This fits with my theory that the returning 3 were the last able bodied group and had rapidly dug the ravine 4 out of the snow (with their bare hands) which had buried them in "the ravine event". N.B. most of the marks on the groups faces are described as abrasions not bruises.... As for RS and ID having bruises on their hands, maybe there was a brawl, after the 2 Yuris died people would be upset with previous decisions and the den is a sign that the group split into two. But i think "the bruising consistent with fighting" theory is just a distraction. E.g. ZK's bruise at the waist is almost certainly from dragging the makeshift sled. Both RS (concussion) and ID (hypothermia) probably died highly confused which means injuries from stumbling/falling/hitting hands on trees and rocks can't be ruled out and the fatal injuries have little to do with fighting...
Don't see the relevance of leaving a radiotransmitter behind.
Rol88 15-04-2017 03:38 (GMT)
Also according to K Mc Closkey , Dyatlov designed not only the famous stove but also a radiotransmitter he was taking with him on trips. But for his last trip he didn't. Just left it behind ....
Rol88 14-04-2017 22:34 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans : You mean to say Krivonishenko's nose . Dorosheko was turned face to the ground and in this position his nose couldn't be accessible to the birds of prey.Following your remark regarding the way Dyatlov , Slobodin and Kolmogorova fell consecutively at 250 m distance , pls do also note that the 3 of them had metacarpophalangeal bruises consistent with hand to hand fight . Even Kolmogorova.... Maybe the 3 of them sided each other against the rest of the group members and decided to leave the others behind and to return to the tent ?
Nigel Evans 14-04-2017 10:02 (GMT)
DRAGON_MARTIJN - well the coverup would seem to have to fool Ivanov and the students in the rescue group.

Rol88 - yes, imo they deliberately camped there to photograph the "mansi's golden orbs" and SZ was equipped with a camera specially for this. So it could have been a KGB sanctioned mission.
YD lost the tip of his nose presumbly to predation. The predation could be explained by crows being quickly defeated by snowfall with no larger predators in the vicinity immediately afterwards.

Imo the most fascinating fact is that ZK, RS and ID all give up within say 250m of each other. Could be coincidence or they were entering a zone that was debilitating and weakening them.
Rol88 13-04-2017 22:26 (GMT)
One more strange detail : Despite the winter and the scarcity of available food , no animal scavenged on the corpses .Except of the eyes of Zolotaryov and eyes and tongue of Dubinina , which no one is really sure how they disappeared , the corpses were kept off of any scavenging.No traces of animal footprints around the corpses reported...
Rol88 13-04-2017 20:01 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans First I thought that we should focus on what danger or threat made the hikers cut their way out in the tent by - 26°c but according to Keith Mc Closkey in an interview on the radio things started to go wrong fews days before .When I Dyatlov set the course to be taken by the group , he had an argument with Yudin who disagreed with him. According to Mc Closkey , it is very strange Dyatlov allegedly "lost his way" to Otorten and deviated to Kholyat since he successfully made it to Otorten the year before . And last but not least the strangest thing was their decision to camp on the barren slope of the mountain instead of staying behind the tree line . McCloskey asked an experienced mountaineer and the man told him no experienced hiker would ever do that. The later" justifications" made by Yudin about Dyatlov's decisions might well be just to keep off trouble....
DRAGON_MARTIJN 13-04-2017 09:41 (GMT)
Parachute mines are in my vision also bombs. "natural aerial object that can burn and explode and fits with the local knowledge", don't know what that is. I think planes with bombs. Cover up can be done at the side of the military by not mentioning they were there. Not nice to admit you killed 9 innocent people.
Nigel Evans 12-04-2017 17:13 (GMT)
DRAGON_MARTIJN - military ordnance satisfies a lot of the evidence, aerial self illuminated objects - photographed by the group and reported by credible eye witnesses, shockwave style injuries.
But not bombing - why light a fire? No bomb craters/fragments?
Other devices could be a better theory imo, e.g. parachute mines and flares, with the evidence being carried away in the strong winds could be a fit.

But these options would require a coverup which doesn't fit with the evidence, the rescue party included fellow students who presumably would have by now spilled the beans if they had seen anything, the KGB rounded up Mansi leaders and the interrogation included torture until they found the first bodies. And "unknown compelling force" isn't much of a cover story.

A much better theory is a natural aerial object that can burn and explode and fits with the local knowledge. Happy
DRAGON_MARTIJN 12-04-2017 14:18 (GMT)
My opinion. They were killed by Soviet plane(s) (see pictures of the planes on this website) by bombs. Maybe the pilots thought they were a target, maybe they thought they were escaped gulagprisoners who needed to be killed. The doctor said: killed by car crash or BOMB. Burned treetops... Probably first light flares to mark the territory and see the target and then the bombs. Probably one bomb on the other side of the mountain (they get afraid), one bomb which knocks down two in the tree and the three others who ran back to the tent, and a third bomb in the ravine. There goes some time over this, so probably they really wanted to kill them.
Nigel Evans 10-04-2017 21:33 (GMT)
Rol88 - it's probably best if we just agree to disagree about portals.

Incidentally in the late fifties it was the Russians that had a lead on the Americans (Sputnik 1957, First man in space 1961). This was mainly because their atomic bomb technology was cruder and hence heavier and so their ballistic missiles had to be more powerful.
It was the Russian lead in rocket technology that forced Kennedy to commit to putting a man on the moon by the end of the decade.

Rol88 10-04-2017 20:36 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans : I really appreciate the pertinence of your comments. Yes opening a portal(like in the Philadelphia experiment ) would have needed a considerable amount of material far beyond the strength of the hikers. But this theory is worth considering. It is a fact that by the late 50 ies
the Soviets were starting to realise it was getting harder to close the gap with the US and they started exploring new alternatives such as the paranormal ( telekinesis , telepathy) etc...
Rol88 10-04-2017 13:40 (GMT)
@ Andrews :Now this being said , these are just suppositions, true facts may be different.
Rol88 10-04-2017 13:37 (GMT)
@ Andrew : It makes sense Y Yudin makes up an illness . ..Remember they were in the USSR and they had KGB agents among the members of the expedition . iIf he had any hint about what they were up to , the only way would have been to make up some excuse , to get out and to keep his mouth shut....Big Brother is watching....
Nigel Evans 10-04-2017 12:31 (GMT)
Rol88 - they didn't use the stove that night. When they set off with supplies for two weeks the men carried loads of 40kg and the girls 30kg. They had 3 axes and some knives and collected firewood each evening. They left 55kg of food for the return journey at the base camp to lighten their loads for the ascent up the mountain. They didn't use the stove because there wasn't any firewood to collect above the tree line.

Has Mr Genovese estimated what this portal opening device would weigh? How many car batteries do you need to open a portal to another dimension? Happy

More seriously i would agree that SZ and probably AK were KGB. I've a suspicion that there was a plan to investigate the "golden orbs" either formed before they set off or along the journey.
Andrew 10-04-2017 00:43 (GMT)
Alright, so out of the theories given, I actually find Infrasound as a very likely candidate for why they left the tent, however, I'm not sure what to believe when it comes to the gruesome deaths of three hikers.
Andrew 10-04-2017 00:25 (GMT)
@Rol88 I wouldn't understand why Yuri Yudin would make up an illness and not tell anyone else, wouldn't he want to tell ANYONE else, so they wouldn't be killed?
Rol88 09-04-2017 23:33 (GMT)
According to French psychic Michel Genovese the whole trip was infiltrated and organised by the soviet secret service. Kolevatov and Zolotaryov were KGB agents infiltrators keeping an eye on the group activities. Dyatlov designed a special device to open a portal to another dimension and unleash malevolent forces to help USSR in their war against USA and was very keen to try it in the wild asap and the KGB was very interested to see the results. According to Michel Genovese , Yuri Yudin knew about the experiment and made up the story of his illness to get out of there before it was too late. The terrible forces unleashed during the experiment drove them out of the tent and caused their demise.
Rol88 09-04-2017 23:04 (GMT)
@NIgel Evans: you are right regarding the footprints.But then there is this story of the stove causing sparkles and fumes and driving the hikers out of the tent . It seems tempting to buy this theory since it explains why the hikers slashed the tent's fabric from inside. But then ,remember no one ever reported any burn of the fabric or of the items left behind in the tent. The theory doesn't hold when you think about it twice.
Nigel Evans 08-04-2017 12:02 (GMT)
Rol88 - my understanding is that the rescue party found the tent by picking up the trail by the river and following it?

The retreat path to the cedar was on the north side which would survive better (in the sun) than the approach path on the south side.

Can't see a problem with superimposed footprints?
Rol88 07-04-2017 17:18 (GMT)
And no one ever made any mention about superimposed footprints
Rol88 07-04-2017 17:15 (GMT)
Guys there are lots of dubious details in the findings during the investigations : take for example the footprints found on the snow , how come they found the footprints of the hikers going down the tent and couldn't find their footprints going up to their last camp given the fac t they made their way up few hours before their escape from the tent down to the forest ?
Nigel Evans 03-04-2017 13:23 (GMT)
Just in case people think i'm getting ahead of myself with the orbs Happy

The phenomena is also believed to be responsible for crop circles, a good video is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0YuPj-516M I can't say whether it's fake or not but it fits with the research below
http://www.bltresearch.com/plantab.php Namely that the crops are bent by rapid heating of the stalks sap, turning it to steam.
The theory is that this is caused by microwaves.

It's my conjecture that a more powerful form of this results in cattle and even human mutilation. E.g. google "human mutilation brazil".
Nigel Evans 02-04-2017 05:52 (GMT)
Don't go there - incidentally orbs and cattle mutilations may have a connection so it maybe that an orb could have removed the tongue. But the pathologist blamed post death decomposition.
Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 21:00 (GMT)
Don't go there - read my recent posts, that's not what the pathologist said Happy.
Don't go there 01-04-2017 19:42 (GMT)
And how does it explain the ripped off tongue of the woman? Explanation on the site says she was alive at the time when it happened. No orb can do this.
Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 15:17 (GMT)
Expert - that's the point of what i'm saying, there was no panic.
With this scenario they left the tent to get closer to the orb in relatively mild temperatures (lets say +1C). As highly qualified university level technicians with radio and nuclear backgrounds they would have been fascinated with the object and quite curious. ID put his torch on the snow on the tent whilst he adjusted his clothing perhaps. Then two of the party suffered electrocution burns and they elected to retire to the forest and light a fire. There was no panic, just realisation of the potential danger in staying near to the tent with this orb just outside it and that's what prevented them from returning. So they calmly walked down the mountain side by side assisting YD and YK who might have been limping.
The reason that they slit the tent rather than using the opening could be the location of the orb or even St Elmos fire perhaps. The tent was on a slope with the entrance at the high point which would be where you'd expect the discharge.
Then at the cedar they experience the real cold temperature and some of the group led by SZ decide a snow cave/den is the best option.
Then the same orb or another one or a lightning bolt creates an explosion near the den that throws the den and it's occupants (but not the seats) several metres along the ravine with barotrauma style injuries.
Expert 01-04-2017 14:48 (GMT)
I really listen to detailed story. About escaping urgently ..
Expert 01-04-2017 14:44 (GMT)
because of YK burnt ?
Expert 01-04-2017 14:39 (GMT)
Nigel /

So, Why did they got panic in the tent ?
Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 14:12 (GMT)
Expert - no ID's torch was found on top of snow on the tent. Warmer doesn't mean warm. +1C is warmer than -20C but it's still cold.



Expert 01-04-2017 13:52 (GMT)
Nigel /


I imagine that in your explaining
-If they were in those crisis , they were rolling in the hill, keeping their body cold on snow
or run away from tent site before they were roasted.
but they kept calm out of tent. unlike in tent.
which mean no threat from the object.

In other idea, I assumed military helicopter.
(they were warned to leave the site)
but there were some traces the assumption couldn't 'explain or fit' in the incident.


Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 12:30 (GMT)
Expert - the hotspot indicates warming of the snow to soften it enough that the wind could shape it (slush?). So it's logical that this warming extended further out decreasing with distance but could include the tent location. That explains why they went outside not properly dressed for -20C. Because the local temperature wasn't -20C.
Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 11:52 (GMT)
Expert - there's several alternative scenarios connected with the ball lightning theory. Nothing wrong with discussing them in turn.
Expert 31-03-2017 20:38 (GMT)
Nature phenomenon could give human panic through big, sudden damage.
there were no traces. your assumption was away from evidences
Expert 31-03-2017 20:35 (GMT)
Now,I am focusing on that- How they were driven out of tent urgently with big panic .

Your assumption is explaining it weirdly
Nigel Evans 31-03-2017 15:44 (GMT)
Expert -
not sure i understand (1). I'm not saying they were too warm, just that around the tent it was significantly warmer than -20C.
not sure i understand (2) either. Happy

I don't know anything about a burnt trace on the cedar tree?

Yes i'm trying to fit the facts to the ball lightning theory and creatively so.
Happy to hear other peoples explanations.

Expert 31-03-2017 13:42 (GMT)
Nigel /

When you match all puzzle pieces ,
do you match all puzzle pieces into your imagination ?

First,Match all pieces in order
Later, judge your imagination was right !

It seems you are making up all remains into Ball Lightning .
Then, you would get weird course..

1. the air in the tent would have been warm due to microwave heating.
->
If they were too warm in the tent to escape urgently , Why didn't they escape urgently around the tent ?

2. if YK was too brave and went outside and put his hand(s) too near the orb (perhaps to photograph it's structure) then this would explain his burns (electrocution) and why they walked down the hill side by side (he was limping and needed assistance) and why they knew they couldn't return.
->
It would be more rational
that there was burnt trace on cedar tree
and YK died under cedar tree
and YK was attacked there .






Nigel Evans 30-03-2017 11:35 (GMT)
Expert - i think that :-

1. the air in the tent would have been warm due to microwave heating.
2. if YK was too brave and went outside and put his hand(s) too near the orb (perhaps to photograph it's structure) then this would explain his burns (electrocution) and why they walked down the hill side by side (he was limping and needed assistance) and why they knew they couldn't return.

Also wrt to SZ's photographs clearly showing an aerial object and the complete lack of any similar photos from the other cameras (except perhaps one) then this would support Ivanov's statement that material was removed from the report.
Expert 30-03-2017 10:07 (GMT)
[Opinion-1]

Nigel, Details Left Out /

The force had 2 character
those would make them confused .

1- Very big force
As they urgently escaped the tent without survival stuffs in terrible whether.

2 - Unknown force
After they escaped urgently, they tried to calm down.
Which mean the force did not attack them instantly, and I guess the hikers won't know exactly what that was

So, that did not give them panic anymore. ( unlike "in the tent" )

but at least, they got awareness - that has immense force.
As everything 9 hikes could do is to escape from the site. It was windy day at less -25'C.
(Though They soon could know terrible whether .. Everything they could do was the way)

--------------------------------------------------------------

I never see they tried "come back ".

They were very afraid of the force around the tent.
And there are clues they tried to hide themselves.

1. Fire behind Cedar tree.
it was made at tree opposite site from the tent.

2.Broken Cedar tree
it was not used for fire, but empty space faced tent.
it must be harder working to climb tree to Around 5M in the cold. . . than somewhat approach the tent.
So, they were very cautious ..

there are many mentions , assumptions
"they tried to come back to tent"
but I don't agree it very much.

the tent was built on hill
Nothing there for the hikers to hide !!

I bet "they tried just to pick up survival stuffs - wears, boots, ,

Nigel Evans 27-03-2017 14:14 (GMT)
Expert - my theory is that RS assisted by ZK started the return journey shortly after "the ravine event" but ID stayed to assist the dying with NTB although unconcious taking a long time to die of cold (he was well dressed and is estimated to have survived a couple of hours). ID is the only member of the group to have 1 litre of urine so the theory is that he stayed too long and was suffering from hypothermia (he also displays paradoxical undressing which supports this).
Nigel Evans 26-03-2017 16:38 (GMT)
aga - maybe the torch was placed on top of 10-15cm of snow?

Expert - i look forward to it Happy

admin - could i request an update to the Ball Lightning section under Theories?

Something like :-
"The "three heads" photo below would fit the ball lightning theory very well. The "heads" are curves in the base of the tent fabric slit, the "hair" is the weave of the canvas with the strong light penetrating through the fabric also. The horizontal streaks are individual snowflakes or graupnel particles passing at high wind speeds across the view within the shutter speed, the repeated modulation of brightness due to the rotation and reflection of the light source".
Aga 22-03-2017 19:17 (GMT)
I understand that there were 15-20 cm of snow on top of the tent and Dyatlov's flashlight was found burried under 5-10 cm of snow. Does that mean that it was lying on top of 10-15 cm of snow? it is unlikely that a large amount of snow wouñd get underneath the flashlight after it was dropped.
Nigel Evans 20-03-2017 20:24 (GMT)
Details Left Out - yes, for NTB Vozrojdenniy records three bruises/hemorrhages, forearm, upper lip and right temple. AK had diffuse bleeding in the underlying tissues of the left knee. LD and SZ's internal bleeding allowed him to estimate survival times post trauma which fits with the distribution of clothing. So these bodies had not decomposed badly having been frozen solid for most of the time until discovery.
But no chest bruises to explain the fractures. The photo of LD in the morgue shows the right side of her chest, there are two fracture lines under the skin in that photo.
Details Left Out 20-03-2017 19:18 (GMT)
Nigel, you're right, I relooked and there is mention of bruising on Lyudmila's thigh. No broken bone on the thigh, though... perhaps severe bruises react differently on frozen bodies, as unlikely as it sounds. You'd expect with broken ribs there would be substantial bruising on the chest. Or maybe how the chest was pressed again the rock had it in a different environment than the thigh... all speculation, but it does make less of a case for murder/beatings, the fact that there was no bruise on her chest but on her thigh. Very interesting.
Nigel Evans 20-03-2017 15:54 (GMT)
If you look at that photo of LD you'll notice that there is an air gap between the water and the ice above presumably part of the spring thaw. Plus the stream has some strength again due to the thaw, hence it is possible that her body has moved before being found and the position of her head cannot be assumed to be the same as at death.

Expert - i'll pass on biting my tongue thanks :@D. I can't see how biting it (or lack of) affects post mortem predation? BL rollers demonstrate the mechanical force required to equal being hit by a car (and even being hit by a tank!) - http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Roller.html Details Left Out - bruising, the autopsy recorded several bruises on the ravine four but none at the places they would be expected to explain impact from say a blunt object. The pathologist specifically stating "like the shockwave from a bomb".
Yes the BL theory requires two events some time apart as it takes time to build the den.
It's possible that YD/YK received their burns at the tent (electrocution) and were still able to limp down the mountain. A clue here is that most of the group seemed to have walked at a modest pace side by side perhaps to assist YK?
Details Left Out 20-03-2017 14:34 (GMT)
Expert:
Okay, that makes sense, about the reason that their footsteps weren't hurried, even though they were panicked. The snow didn't allow quick passage.

I too think that Lyudmila's tongue was removed before death. The photo of her with her "face and chest pressed against the rock," which you linked, I believe shows that her head was turned, though. The right side of her face appears to be pressed to the rock, but her mouth and eyes appear exposed. It does not change my thoughts on her tongue, but maybe explains her missing eyes? Perhaps the eyes were removed post-mortem.
Details Left Out 20-03-2017 14:26 (GMT)
Nigel:
I understand what you're saying about the tongue and blood in Lyudmila's stomach, that the blood may have gotten there if she simply bit her tongue before death, but that the tongue may have been removed after death. I still think it was removed before she died, but this, of course, is only speculation.

Okay, skin bath tissue = wrinkled skin from water immersion. This makes much more sense. Skin bath tissue sounds like a Silence of the Lambs type of activity. That is interesting that Rustem Slobodin had this on his foot. I wonder what caused this. More mysteries...

It seems that if ball lightening injured members of the group while in or around the tent, that there would have been signs of them being dragged or helped along on the way to the cedar tree, but it says that the footprints made it clear that each individual walked away without help. Maybe you are saying that the ball lightening also occurred while four of the members were in the ravine, causing their severe injuries then.
Details Left Out 20-03-2017 14:15 (GMT)
In the case of Lyudmila Dubinina and Seymen Zolotaryov, both of whom suffered a series of broken ribs, I am wondering if it's possible that there was bruising, initially, but that the bruising dissapeared over time. If this is possible, it would keep it open that maybe a physical attack or a fall occurred.

I have contacted the Alabama Department of Forensics (U.S.) to ask about bruising. On their website, there is a general timeline of how long it takes bruising to disappear after death: http://adfs.alabama.gov/Bruises.aspx In normal conditions, bruising will dissapear post-mortem in two-four weeks. However, this is not on frozen bodies. I have asked them how this might differ on a frozen body, specifically a body frozen for three months. It seems to me that the bruising could have been there, then dissapeared over time. Maybe longer than normal, in the case of a frozen body. But, I have no knowledge on the topic.

I came across their website because I mistakenly thought that the body farms were located in Alabama. There are several throughout the U.S., but they are actually based in Texas. I mention this because it is interesting reading, learning about the body farm: http://www.txstate.edu/anthropology/facts/labs/farf.html
Expert 20-03-2017 11:41 (GMT)
Mansi already had experienced through their companion death.
They would investigate by them self .
They were aware something was wrong around the mountain.
They named it Mountain of the death or Otorten.
They explained two something wrong - Forest giant, Sky ball.

Assume it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V20-LSgVN0
Expert 20-03-2017 11:30 (GMT)
Details Left Out /

I think ..
it is nothing that "their footsteps weren't hurried"
They just had to calm down.
-Snow , hard stones on the pass .

They won't know what the sky ball was ..
but big panic in the tent - maybe unknown, super technology would be used to drive them out of the tent.
Don't forget less -25'C ! With strong wind.
Surely they were in big panic !
If the force was nature or human, They must be damaged in the tent. but No damage !
Only Mental panic !
Expert 20-03-2017 11:17 (GMT)
I checked out sky ball motions that were depicted by Witnesses (Mansi , Russian mine worker)
How could it be nature phenomenon .. ? I doubt ..
Expert 20-03-2017 11:13 (GMT)
Nigel /

Do you know any ball lightning cases that match their injuries . . . ??

sever rib damages ! broken skull ..


Expert 20-03-2017 11:05 (GMT)
Nigel /

You need to try an experiment .
Bite your tongue .
You won't pull out tongue
Expert 20-03-2017 11:01 (GMT)
I agree that LD tongue was removed in the incident : See the last pose of LD ! http://dyatlov-pass.com/.../Lyudmila-Dubinina-post-mortem... If tongue was removed after the incident (by other human) , her face would be turned. Animals also won't remove tongue perfectly in the pose. It was said "the tongue, along with the diaphragm of the mouth, were simply pulled out."

Nigel Evans 19-03-2017 18:57 (GMT)
Details Left Out - "skin bath tissue". I think that's just a poor translation of "wrinkled skin from water immersion". More interestingly the autopsy for RS noted the same for his foot.
I've been fascinated with what could have caused the complete disappearance of LD's tongue and base muscle (exposing the hyoid bone) as it's a copycat injury with cattle mutilations which may be connected with ball lightning or rather a possible cause of it - microwaves. However i've come to the view that i'm being over creative and there are several mundane possibilities irrespective of whether she swallowed some blood. She could have bitten it in the event that broke her ribs and as said below a flock of crows could have plucked it out in a few minutes.
Obviously other people will have their own theories but i don't hold with the murder theory, the pathologist was quite clear that the ravine four suffered high energy bone trauma without any sign of tissue damage from an impact. Someone below posted his view that skin doesn't bruise in extreme cold, but i don't think they were that cold in the den, gloves were in jacket and an unbuttoned coat.
Glad you like the ball lightning theory, the author of the viafanzine site clearly likes it as well. He/she alludes to a point that i don't think has been made before on this page, that when they ran off into the night poorly dressed for -20C it was because the area around the tent could have been a lot warmer, possibly above zero, due to microwave energy warming the area up. It wasn't just the hot spot that was warm....
Details Left Out 19-03-2017 14:25 (GMT)
Nigel:

Skin bath tissue?

I know little about the process of decomposition, and of decomposition in sub-freezing/freezing and wet environments, but it does make sense to me that the eyes and soft tissue around the mouth would decompose at a fast rate than the rest of the body, especially if pressed against wet snow. But the tongue makes less sense to me. Are you saying her tongue may have simply decomposed, just as her eyes did?

I was thinking, her ribs being cracked could also have been done if Zolotaryov pressed his knees to her chest while removing her tongue. This could explain why both sides of her ribs were broken. It does not explain why the right side of his ribs were cracked though.

Mysterious, all of it.

Some of your thoughts of the lightening ball seem plausible to me.
Nigel Evans 18-03-2017 22:56 (GMT)
Details Left Out - The pathologist didn't say that her stomach contained blood, he described it as a dark reddish slimy mass. Sadly never sent for tests to determine it's composition. But he did say that "The injuries of the head area of ​​the soft tissue and "skin bath 'limbs are posthumous changes".
Details Left Out 18-03-2017 12:52 (GMT)
Maybe the answers, or some of the answers, are in the details left out of the autopsies.

Why were the autopsies of the worst victims the least detailed? Why was nothing said of Lyudmila's missing tongue other than that it was missing and blood was found in her stomach (implying the tongue was removed while she was still alive)? It should have been simple to detect whether the tongue had been ripped out or cut out, for example.

I do not know why they left the tent. You wrote that their footsteps weren't hurried, and if they were terribly frightened, I think they would have run. But yet they left without proper clothing. The stove smoking out the tent seems plausible for why they cut holes in the tent from the inside, and maybe explains why they ripped their way out of the tent, if the stove was near the tent's entrance. But then why did they walk so far away from the tent? It seems they would have stayed in the area and then removed the stove from the tent and got back in the tent.

Or maybe they were frightened by someone or something or some phenomena outside the tent, slicing holes in the tent either to see or as a start to ripping the tent open, hoping to get away from whatever or whomever was by the tent's entrance. But then why did they walk, not run from the tent? Were they simply unable to run in the condition of the snow?

Or did the two members outside of the tent, Semen Zolotarev and Nicolai Thibeaux-Brignolle, thought to be relieving themselves, have a fight outside the tent and frighten the others? This also wouldn't explain why they ventured so far from the tent. Unless, one of those men went crazy and drove everyone out. No evidence of this though. It seems likely that they experienced a threat outside of their group, though whether it was a sound, a sight, strange gravity, or attackers, human or non-human, I have no idea. Whatever it was, it was terrifying.

But I do have an idea of how the members of the group died, and what can be deduced from what their autopsies strangely left out.

The people in the ravine obviously lived longer than the others (as they had stripped clothing from the others). And their injuries are the worst.

Maybe everyone went to the cedar tree, and began collecting firewood. The two men who died there, Yuri Doroshenko and Yuri Krivonischenko, had injuries explainable by climbing the tree and maybe falling from the tree. Maybe they were trying to see the tent or maybe they were afraid of something on the ground. That the side of the tree facing the tent had broken branches (evidence of climbing), doesn't necessarily mean that they were looking at the tent. Since they were coming from the direction of the tent, it would make sense that they would climb at the first part of the tree that they reached. It's possible that they were afraid of one or more members of their own group. Or, that they climbed the tree to break off branches to use for firewood. I think that they were both trying to view the tent and break off branches for firewood. The minor burns on their bodies/clothes could be from the fire they made. Regardless, items of their clothing were taken from them. Whether they were already dead or were in a weakened state, it is unknown.

Why did three members of the group then walk toward the tent, and the other remaining members go in the opposite direction? I don't understand this. Maybe there was just a difference of opinion on whether it was safe to return to the tent.

And why do the three members who went toward the tent (Igor Dyatlov, Zinaida Kolmogorova, and Rustem Slobodin) have similar injuries to their hands and faces? I think the three that went toward the tent fought with one another. They bruised their knuckles in the fight, and received blows to their faces from one another. Maybe all three fought one another, or maybe Igor and Zenaida fought with Rustem. It was suggested Igor and Zenaida were close, though not sexual together. Maybe they were dating. Rustem Slobodin was found with a knife in his pocket, and Igor Dyatlov had an incision on his right ankle--maybe Rustem cut Igor. There was also bruising on Igor Dyatlov's front and back ankles, suggesting maybe he was trying to get away from Rustem, while Rustem was on the ground grabbing and cutting at his ankles. Regardless, Igor Dyatlov is found first along the way from the cedar tree to the tent, so he probably died first. I think Rustem was trying to remove Igor's jacket, which would explain why the jacket is unzipped and Igor is clenching it so tightly, to prevent it from being taken from him. Rustem dies next along the trail, and Zinaida gets the furthest toward the tent. Maybe she fought, but then left the two men fighting and made for the tent. Maybe the reason the three of them fought was due to their upset over the deaths of their two friends, Yuri Doroshenko and Yuri Krivonischenko, under the cedar tree. Maybe they fought due to a love triangle between them. The bar-shaped wound on Zinaida's side could have been from a thick tree branch.

All speculation, of course, but I do think they fought one another and it's obvious that they were in a highly upsetting situation, with their two friends dead and whatever happened at the tent to begin with. As their cause of death is hypothermia, I think they injured each other, also causing further exhaustion, and so they simply walked as far as they could before freezing to death. Expect Igor, whom, I believe, Rustem fought and left laying on the ground to freeze, after unsuccessfully trying to remove his jacket.

As for the four remaining members of the group, Lyudmila Dubinina, Alexander Kolevatov, Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolles, and Semyon Zolotaryov, who went in the opposite direction of the tent from the cedar tree, their deaths are more mysterious.

It seems someone cut or ripped out Lyudmila Dubinina's tongue, as blood was found in her stomach. Everyone is in a state of extreme duress, devestated by the death of their friends (they knew about the deaths of the two Yuri's by the cedar tree), cold, hungry/thirsty, somewhat frostbitten, and frightened. They must have felt desperate. I'm a woman, so as much as I don't want to stereotype the woman of these four, she may have been more hysterical than the others. Maybe not. Perhaps she wouldn't be quiet, speaking incessantly of all her fears. Perhaps she was angry, and blaming one or more others in the group. What we do know is that Semyon Zolotaryov is found wearing her jacket. We also know he had elite military training, and had managed to survive in very desperate situations in the past. Perhaps he knew that positive morale was essential. Maybe he threatened to cut her tongue out if she wouldn't stop talking, then did so. Maybe the two of them struggled, falling together deeper into the ravine. The injuries to their chests are similar. Both have broken ribs on the right side on their chests. This could have been from falling atop one another in the ravine, maybe with Lyudmila Dubinina facing away from Semyon Zolotaryov, he fell on top of her while going after her. Her chest injuries were worse than his, and her ribs of her left side were broken as well. She dies kneeling at the edge of the ravine as if trying to get out of it on an impossible side of it.

As Zolotaryov's injuries from the fall were significant, he likely cut out her tongue and took her jacket before the fall. The injuries of the others, Aleksander Kolevatov and Nikolay Thibeaux Brignolle, could have been inflicted by Zolotaryov as well.

Aleksander Kolevatov's injuries seem to have been done by Zolotaryov, as a "snapped neck and blow behind the ear is a common sign of killing performed by special forces." His jacket was unbuttoned and unzipped. Perhaps he was trying to protect Lyudmila Dubinina and Zolotaryov snapped his neck and hit him with a thick branch (blunt object). Then Zolotaryov started to remove his jacket, but was interrupted.

Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolles's injuries also could have been inflicted by Zolotaryov. Maybe he and Kolevatov together tried to defend Dubinina.

Then, with Aleksander Kolevatov and
Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolles defeated, Zolotaryov tries to remove Kolvatov's jacket and Duninina attacks him. Zolotaryov then turns around and starts after Dubinina, taking her jacket instead, and then ripping or cutting out her tongue. She tries to get away from him. Then they fall into the deeper part of the ravine, causing fatal injuries to both. Zolotaryov then tries to write something down, possibly an explanation of why they fled the tent, but dies before he can do so.

I think the missing eyes of Zolotaryov and Dubinina could have been from scavengers, but I'm not sure.

It makes sense to me why Vozrojdenniy, the medical examiner who conducted the autopsies, would have left things out. It was the late 50's, in a small town area. People cared about one another's feelings more than exposing truths at all costs. If he would have said that the injuries of seven of the members were likely inflicted by one another, it would have been devastating to the grieving families. It also would have been an upset to the government in the case of Zolotaryov, as he had been awarded a number of elite military metals. Vozrojdenniy may have feared the government would kill him and simply find another examiner to produce less embarrassing results. It would also have become a blame game, of pointing fingers at "bad" members of the group. Perhaps Vozrojdenniy also understood that people behave much differently in desperate situations than they normally would. Murder is a horrible crime, but when someone is trying to survive and feels it's him or me, it is well within human nature to do what it takes to survive. And Zolotaryov would have known this better than anyone. Self-preservation is always appropriate.

None of this, however, explains why the group suddenly left the tent in the dark, freezing cold night, leaving behind shoes, jackets, and other things necessary for their survival. I have no idea why they did this. But I do think that whatever the trigger situation was, it dissipated, which is why three of the members tried to return to the tent.
Nigel Evans 14-03-2017 23:22 (GMT)
Expert - the probability is all BL but more than one of them some hours apart (it takes time to build a den).
Nigel Evans 14-03-2017 18:12 (GMT)
Expert - i haven't deserted it Happy But the tent event wasn't lightning and the nearby ski touring group claimed to have seen a light and heard a bang on that night.
So probability is all BL.
Nigel Evans 14-03-2017 15:20 (GMT)
Expert - we'll have to disagree about the fire, it would illuminate the trees around and above..

This is the only video of BL that explodes that i know of - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D62KzIc-R-4
Nigel Evans 13-03-2017 22:40 (GMT)
EXpert - [ the fire was set behind the cedar, but could not be seen from the side of the tent ]

I'm not sure that would fool the aliens... Happy
Nigel Evans 12-03-2017 15:17 (GMT)
Expert - Part 04 via google translate - http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm is the best discussion i've seen so far on the various theories (but it's fair to say that the author likes the ball lightning theory and gives it a lot of space).

As to the question, how could ball lightning be responsible for the three events, tent, cedar, ravine. Well my thoughts are :-
1. http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Ball_lightning.html has various classifications for the witnessed events including "navigators". Because that's what is observed.
2. The injuries of the cedar two might have occurred at the tent and been the cause of them fleeing? Interesting that they descended in a line abreast, maybe one or two needed assistance from another's shoulder? So possibly only two events to explain.
Nigel Evans 12-03-2017 12:03 (GMT)
Expert - imo, it's a product of the culture of fear that existed in the authoritarian Soviet Union at that time. Ivanov wanted to state "the fireball theory is the best one" but was overruled because it was a semi fantastic theory that couldn't be proved and could result in harsh outcomes for his superiors (google the 1937 Soviet Census).
Also the event killed all the witnesses which considerably amplified the confusion of course.
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 15:34 (GMT)
Regarding an explanation for the horizontal lines, i'd opt for snow/graupnel passing across the view in high winds. A max speed of 70 mph = 31metres per sec = 30cm in 1/100 of a sec, so depending on the shutter speed and and the speed of the wind you could get a single snowflake travelling some distance in the exposure. Support for this would be the slight change in direction on the right hand side of the photo as the wind follows the ground.
But not conclusive of course.
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 15:05 (GMT)
Expert - and the "heads" are peppered with white dots, possibly the weave of the fabric letting intense light through.
I'd opt for fabric.
Expert 08-03-2017 13:02 (GMT)
1) Camera angle

2) back head color line is very clear.
Not blurred .. It mean bright light lost its strength by a barrier - tent fabric.
Expert 08-03-2017 12:48 (GMT)
What is overwork in my claiming ?
Expert 08-03-2017 12:47 (GMT)
Correct ^^
1.5 METER
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 12:47 (GMT)
Expert - let's not overwork this. We can agree to disagree.
Expert 08-03-2017 12:45 (GMT)
Nigel /

Now, you need to try it.

(1) Make 7 cm sphere(Camera lense) with your fingers .
(2) Idendtify if you can put 3 humans heads in the sphere what Meter behind .


- Maybe, you can put 3 heads in sphere only 1M behind.
Expert 08-03-2017 12:45 (GMT)
Nigel /

Now, you need to try it.

(1) Make 7 cm sphere(Camera lense) with your fingers .
(2) Idendtify if you can put 3 humans heads in the sphere what Meter behind .


- Maybe, you can put 3 heads in sphere only 1M behind.
Expert 08-03-2017 12:28 (GMT)
the tent was ...
width - 180
length - 400
height - 100
It s impossible ?
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 12:19 (GMT)
Expert - if they are heads then the photographer is 6 feet behind and approx 3 feet above. A bit difficult to arrange in the tent! Easier outside.
Expert 08-03-2017 11:22 (GMT)
Nigel /

I need more detailed explaination.
Expert 08-03-2017 11:11 (GMT)
Nigel /

I am saying the first photo, I am not saying order between the 12 photos.

but Why 1 photo couldn't be taken in tent ?
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 10:51 (GMT)
Expert - i don't think there's any order to the sequence of photos (last one taken days before).

If the objects at the bottom are heads then it couldn't have been taken in the tent. But they could be pieces of tent fabric.
Expert 08-03-2017 07:29 (GMT)
the first photo would be taken in tent.
Expert 08-03-2017 07:18 (GMT)
I guess the photo was taken in tent. (camera angel ,
back head color)
If so, the photo would be taken,, right before the tent was torn ..
Expert 08-03-2017 07:06 (GMT)
Nigel /

WoW, Chilling !
Nigel Evans 07-03-2017 17:24 (GMT)
Expert - https://www.amazon.com/Dyatlov-Pass-Post-Mortem/dp/1539662896
Nigel Evans 07-03-2017 17:10 (GMT)
That image i posted last is on this website which claims that it is from SZ's camera. http://www.dyatlov-pass-incident.com/valentin-yakimenkos-study-groups-negatives/ Looks like three heads looking at ball lightning to me! Happy

Case closed imo.
Nigel Evans 07-03-2017 11:05 (GMT)
Expert - but her head is turned left side up and she lost her nose, upper lip and left side of her cheek. Several crows could have done it in less than 5 minutes.
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 20:41 (GMT)
Expert - i think that's a good theory, YK lost his nose, SZ his eyes and LD eyes and tongue to crows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooded_crow before the snow covered the bodies.
Expert 06-03-2017 15:55 (GMT)
Nigel /

Check out 18:45 - 25 : 00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1500&v=3taDQgXT_6o
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 15:30 (GMT)
Expert - where is your source for the claim that the Mansi state that many reindeer lost their tongues? Do you have a link?

From that site i posted and Svetlana Oss's book, i've been reading the translation of the pathologists report for NTB. His head injuries were more serious than described here, as well as the damage to the temporal bone, the base of the skull was cracked (anterior cranial fossa) and the fornix broken (this lies at the centre of the brain). Hence the references to similarity with being hit by a car or shockwave. N.B. the damage being extensive enough that the head had lost symmetry...

The injuries to LD, SZ and NTB seem to be either due to :-
1. Falling from height (i've read 60 feet) but no broken limbs?
2. Explosion.
3. Being hit by something like a car.

The pathologist thought that NTB although unconcious could have had signs of life for 2 to 3 hours which (in my theory) explains how ID stayed long enough to get hypothermia.
Expert 06-03-2017 14:00 (GMT)
Nigel /

Nope, I trust Mansi witness.
Mansi said many deer were discovered with tongue removed around the incident.
that wasn't only LD
And other ravines weren't discovered without tongue. Even they were in water.
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Thibeaux-Brignolle-and-Kolevatov-post-mortem.jpg
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 13:43 (GMT)
Just been on another DP site
http://ermakvagus.com/Europe/Russia/Cholat-%20Syachil/Kholat%20Syakhl.htm and found this :-
http://ermakvagus.com/Europe/Russia/Cholat-%20Syachil/New%20folder%20(10)/htmlimage.jpg I haven't seen that image before....

Also the site gives a much more detailed translation of the official autopsy reports than here. The pathologist does explain the disappearance of the tongue as decomposition - "The injuries of the head area of ​​the soft tissue and "skin bath 'limbs are posthumous changes (decay and decomposition) Dubinina corpse, which was recently before finding water."
Expert 06-03-2017 12:21 (GMT)
There were many articles
- 3 members ( ZD, ID, RS) tried to come back to the tent. but I don't agree it ..
they tried to pick up survival stuffs like wear, foot wear, torn tent ..
maybe.. that would be ZD's Idea.

I will explain whole course next..
Expert 06-03-2017 12:16 (GMT)
Alien would use electronic power like lightning .
If they were interstellar travelers , the tech would be very easy technology .
Expert 06-03-2017 12:10 (GMT)
I counted whole attack number by alien craft .
They would be attacked 5-6 times.

JD RS ID they all would be attacked by each 3 attack
Cedar attack - 1
Ravine attack - 1 or 2

whole attack times - 5 or 6
Expert 06-03-2017 11:56 (GMT)
EoinOC /

Good point

I think
they dug snow on hill..
snow file collapsed in 20 days. (as the tent was discovered 20 days after)

their footprints was frozen instantly.

someones were discovered under snow
-> much snow would be filed up tree , those snow would fall down As time pass .

Let's see this photos
- Under Cedar tree
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Krivonischenko-Doroshenko-post-mortem-1.jpg Under a little tree
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Igor-Dyatlov-post-mortem-1.jpg
Expert 06-03-2017 11:32 (GMT)
As I know,,,
Ivanov said to close one.
" Sky ball is responsible for the incident , whether it is Alien craft or Secret weapon or Natural disaster .. "
He assumed those 3 forces .
He did not say skyball was ball lightning
Expert 06-03-2017 11:27 (GMT)
Nigel /

I feel awkward ,, now..
I couldn't find any sentences related to my question( Did Ivanov conclude the UFO as a nature phenomenon like ball lightning ? )
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 10:26 (GMT)
https://amnationalistcouncil.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/the-dyatlov-pass-mystery-solved/ "A former police officer named Lev Ivanov who led the Inquest in 1959 published an article in 1990 and admitted that the investigative team had seen “flying spheres” themselves! Invanov believed in a paranormal explanation for the groups deaths involving UFOs."
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 10:03 (GMT)
Expert - Yes, Ivanov thought the "fireballs" provided the best answer. The rescue party saw one and radioed HQ that they were concerned for their safety.

EoinOC - the mountain gets high winds, so the snowfall isn't uniform? The wind drifts would cover some of the path and leave some of it exposed?

DS - maybe Ivanov was wrong, maybe he wasn't. All we can do here is discuss. Could be worth remembering that someone has gone to effort to provide this website and we should all use it with respect.
Expert 06-03-2017 09:18 (GMT)

Nigel /

?

Where is the answer in your sentences ??
MY Question is that Ivanov concluded the sky ball in Nature phenomenon ?
If my English was wrong , I change sentence
- Ivanov concluded the sky ball was a nature phenomenon like Ball lightning ?
DS 06-03-2017 08:57 (GMT)
Nigel I see that you are Australian too, though I may have obliterated you and you're alter-ego's on the forums perhaps you would like to argue your points face to face.
My name is Darryl S I live in Adelaide Australia I would LOVE to meet all three of yourself.
DS 06-03-2017 08:47 (GMT)
Or a Yeti, or a nuclear bomb, or a ...you get the point. evidence people do you see it?
DS 06-03-2017 08:47 (GMT)
Tantalizing piece of evidence though...As I doubt ball lightning held them at gunpoint and marched them through the snow.
DS 06-03-2017 08:44 (GMT)
No idea but they're there, could have rained in between and frozen them solid.
DS 06-03-2017 08:43 (GMT)
FINALLY someone with a brain Nigel Teedy mcExpert where are you??
EoinOC 06-03-2017 08:37 (GMT)
Can anyone clarify the following: the image of the tent, as discovered by the search party, clearly shows it partially buried in snow. The bodies of the 9 tourists were also covered with snow. How was it that the footsteps leading away from the tent were also not buried in snow?
Nigel Evans 05-03-2017 18:58 (GMT)
DS - it's good to have a hobby, gives you a purpose in life.
Btw who is MODS? No one has used that handle?
DS 05-03-2017 16:07 (GMT)
NIGEL EVANS I hope you were smart enough to use an alias. You cannot hide the evidence of what you're doing. Now I'm going to look into YOU my friend. Congratulations dumbass you've turned an OCD investigative genius against you.
DS 05-03-2017 16:03 (GMT)
MODS WHERE ARE YOU??

ATTENTION MODS/ALL INVESTIGATORS
I put it forth that the two biggest shitposters NIGEL and EXPERT on this site are THE SAME PERSON.
scroll to roughly 1/4 way from the bottom of page

19-10-2016 04:06 (GMT)

First appearance of expert. Judge their interactions for yourself
Nigel Evans 05-03-2017 11:54 (GMT)
Expert - yes, he was interviewed as an old man after Russia had opened up. He said that his opinion was that the fireballs were the cause but his superiors didn't like that and forced a change to - "unknown compelling force" and material had to be removed from the report. Svetlana Oss has seen the same report and noted that it has been stitched twice. Ivanov expressed guilt that he couldn't be candid with the relatives of the deceased.
DS 05-03-2017 03:53 (GMT)
I won't let you do this Nigel I will log in every day and expose you
Nigel Evans 04-03-2017 19:35 (GMT)
DS/me - Ball lightning was apparently the chosen solution of the local mansi people and Lev Ivanov the police investigator. It's one of the very few theories that explains all the facts.

If that pisses you off that's just tough buddy. If you don't agree then give us your better theory.

For the record expert and i are different posters.
DS 04-03-2017 19:23 (GMT)
Reading your posts gives me chills now i know its just one guy chatting to himself
DSme 04-03-2017 19:18 (GMT)
But I don't. people get falsely convicted for murders all the time because of passionate (yet tunnel vision impaired) investigators like you. wake up bro pay attention fuck.
DS is me dickhead 04-03-2017 19:12 (GMT)
dude. give up. you have tunnel vision. investigators get it all the time.
you want to believe ball lightning did this horrific crime so badly i almost feel bad for exposing you.
DS 04-03-2017 19:07 (GMT)
(UPDATE: SCROLL DOWN AND SEE NIGEL/EXPERT IS FULL OF SHIT)
MODS WHERE ARE YOU??

ATTENTION MODS/ALL INVESTIGATORS
I put it forth that the two biggest shitposters NIGEL and EXPERT on this site are THE SAME PERSON.
scroll to roughly 1/4 way from the bottom of page

19-10-2016 04:06 (GMT)

First appearance of expert. Judge their interactions for yourself
Nigel Evans 04-03-2017 14:24 (GMT)
Expert - it was apparently quite a burn, the skin was charred down to the underlying tissue.

One of the features of BL is the variance between harmless through to ultra deadly. As said before the luxury of the theory is that as we don't know what it is, it can be stretched to fit the evidence because the accounts are so variable.
Nigel Evans 04-03-2017 08:33 (GMT)
Expert - we don't know enough about the DP lights i guess. The Hessdalen lights are better studied https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessdalen_lights and they can last for over an hour "The duration of the phenomenon may be from a few seconds to longer than an hour".

I've been looking again at YK's hand injuries and questioning the reason that he bit both of the backs of his hands (very hard, with the second bite he died with the epidermis in his mouth). I think he bit his hands because of the excruciating pain of the burn on his leg. So if he was concious after he received the burn, he must have been concious when it happened?....
Nigel Evans 03-03-2017 18:36 (GMT)
Expert - "How could the nature force drive them to the forest with bare foot or slight wear ? "

Hi, look at that video you posted and ask yourself what would you do if it was heading for your tent?
Nigel Evans 03-03-2017 12:19 (GMT)
DS - can i assume then that you don't like the ball lightning theory?
DS 03-03-2017 01:41 (GMT)
Read about half of there conversations so far and yep.
Nigel. Expert. Whoever you are.
You should be ashamed of yourself, can't believe I wasted so much time on your bulls*#t theory and the bulls#*t games you play to try and prove it.
No more from you. No more ball lightning bulls#*t until you post your probable sequence with all evidence supported. Am I clear? Never gonna happen though so please just leave the Dyatlov case alone so we can try to find the real answer to the question that brought us all here.
DS 03-03-2017 00:12 (GMT)
bye bye Nigel
me 03-03-2017 00:10 (GMT)
ATTENTION ALL INVESTIGATORS;
I put it forth that the two biggest shitposters NIGEL and EXPERT on this site are THE SAME PERSON.
scroll to roughly 1/4 way from the bottom of page

19-10-2016 04:06 (GMT)

First appearance of expert. Judge their interactions for yourself
DS 02-03-2017 23:58 (GMT)
Nigel/expert would you please provide your sequence of events. What are you avoiding?
Nigel Evans 02-03-2017 20:52 (GMT)
me - hi, feel free to criticise and contest. I'm disappointed if people feel they're shut out of the discussion. But lets keep it polite, yes? Happy

and Expert isn't my sidekick, he has his own opinions, some we share some we don't.

Btw the KGB, spent a lot of time investigating the DPI (months) because they lost one of their own and when they found him they closed the mountain for three years to continue monitoring what was happening there. Imo that rules them out.
DS 02-03-2017 19:56 (GMT)
I too have thought a lot about the kgb being involved or to blame somehow. There's only hints of their involvement but you'd expect so much from the kgb so who knows.
A good question for any kgb theory would be why didnt they destroy all the evidence completely? (Given the isolation and ruthlessness of the kgb to keep secrets
me 02-03-2017 19:22 (GMT)
Lurker on this forum for a while but was too affraid of Nigel and his really supportive sidekick expert. Thank you DS you have raised couple good question i will try to answer.
I think it was KGB and military but still much to understand
me 02-03-2017 19:08 (GMT)
read a lot of DS and Nigel fight and i feel he does bring up some new points. There are many theory that use same evidence as BL how can you be so sure?

DS I really want to hear Nigel full story too
DS 02-03-2017 17:50 (GMT)
If your theory is plausible and fits the evidence, I'll never bother you again and write you a lengthy apology letter.
DS 02-03-2017 17:46 (GMT)
I'll take it one step further: I promise to post my sequence directly after yours before I question your theory at all. We can have them back to back for all (who are hopefully not yet as certain as we may be) to judge.
DS 02-03-2017 17:38 (GMT)
I'm not going to stop until you do. or you can concede and admit that your theory doesn't fit with the evidence in which case I'll just post it.
DS 02-03-2017 17:33 (GMT)
I promise you a minimum of one sequence as soon as you reveal yours.
DS 02-03-2017 17:31 (GMT)
THEN IT SHOULDN'T BE HARD FOR YOU
Nigel Evans 02-03-2017 11:38 (GMT)
DS - this page is rich with ideas from me as to a possible sequence of events.

and is very empty of ideas from you.

It's time for you to state your ideas or shut up.
DS 02-03-2017 11:22 (GMT)
Worry about your own theory Nigel it needs your help badly. I've got a couple of possible sequences that involve no unexplained phenomena and guess what the evidence fits with them.
I've already asked you many times though so would you be so kind?
DS 02-03-2017 11:14 (GMT)
state a possible sequence of events and include all physical evidence or shut up.
Nigel Evans 02-03-2017 10:40 (GMT)
DS - "You cannot expect me to take you seriously if you only cherry pick the bits that suit your theory "

Absolutely true. That's why i don't take you seriously because that's exactly what you're doing.

The pathologist was quite clear on what caused the chest injuries and it wasn't fighting.

Plus you have no explanation for the deaths by the fire and none for the exit from the tent.

You're not just cherry picking you're grasping at a single straw that three of the party have bruises on their hands that can be attributed to punching, and nothing else.

Lets hear your end to end explanation for the dpi.
DS 02-03-2017 02:38 (GMT)
You cannot expect me to take you seriously if you only cherry pick the bits that suit your theory
DS 02-03-2017 02:31 (GMT)
Nigel:
Give me a sequence of events (including all the physical evidence) that fits your theory and I will retract everything I've said.
Nigel Evans 02-03-2017 00:55 (GMT)
DS - how to make your own ball lightning.
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/gmr/index.htm
DS 01-03-2017 17:29 (GMT)
This goes for all the theorists: You must be able to apply all the evidence to your theory and present at least a plausible sequence of events or your theory will only lead to more questions than answers. And wont stand up to scrutiny from somebody like me.
DS 01-03-2017 17:02 (GMT)
LOL now I'm done, read back through it all and answer or disprove my questions. Or continue ignoring them and I'll compile them all into a list for future copy and pasting whenever you continue pushing your theory on this case.
DS 01-03-2017 16:57 (GMT)
You heard it here first folks: well documented proof that lightning balls are afraid of fire.
DS 01-03-2017 16:54 (GMT)
Two days and I can see that most of the known evidence doesn't fit your sequence of events in the slightest.
DS 01-03-2017 16:48 (GMT)
No more time wasted disproving your theory Nigel. I've done enough.
DS 01-03-2017 16:47 (GMT)
Once again, you are saying the men received injuries consistant with fighting injuries (noted by the only expert to ever examine the bodies firsthand nonetheless) to the backs of their hands by digging. If this were the case it would be their fingertips that received the most damage.
DS 01-03-2017 16:43 (GMT)
To stay warm? So you agree the cold was they're biggest perceived threat at the time?
DS 01-03-2017 16:40 (GMT)
And remember the film had three empty frames left. yet he only took a singular picture of the most elusive and deadly balls of light ever imagined.
I think you're stories cooked mate. Your evidence proves nothing and you rely on speculations and assumptions. Sorry it had to end this way.
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 16:33 (GMT)
DS - well who is getting the more ridiculous, someone who accepts that BL is well documented or someone who doesn't?
Have you looked at the wikipedia link for it?

No i'm saying the rescuers - ID, ZK and possibly RS used their hands as shovels and tunneled through snow, ice, twigs and branches to remove their buried friends. They're the ones with the injuries to their hands and face and are not decomposed. The ravine four were too injured to punch their way out of a paper bag.

A number of camera frames aren't published on this site. These consist of exposed film that shows nothing but a black background with a white dot. There is conjecture whether these are bad exposures or true photos perhaps of the night sky.

As you say you've only been researching this for two days....

"How does the fire at the cedar fit into your theory?"
I can say with some confidence that they lit the fire to stay warm.... Happy
DS 01-03-2017 16:28 (GMT)
Looking at your favorite blurry photo again there's a good sign of the reported cracked lens. Have you investigated this at all?
DS 01-03-2017 16:20 (GMT)
Agreed that no one will ever know. But we can also work together to agree on what is impossible based upon the evidence found.
DS 01-03-2017 16:13 (GMT)
In the tent? Perfect.
so according to your theory: he took a single blurry photo of the ball. packed up the the tripod and then returned it to the tent. You can't even prove the photo was taken that night, let alone what is in the photo. The photo beforehand however, tells us much more about their last day alive: It was cold as balls and the weather was terrible.
DS 01-03-2017 16:02 (GMT)
"Well documented"-show me. My statement stands that you cannot prove it exists.
You're saying that the men PUNCHED their way through snow. This is getting ridiculous Nigel. look at the photo's and tell me again they weren't decomposed at the time of autopsy.
Many many more pieces that don't fit into your story at all. I've only been researching this for two days, you've been at it for over a year and you never tried to fit all the evidence into your theory??? for example: How does the fire at the cedar fit into your theory?
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 15:40 (GMT)
In the tent.
DS 01-03-2017 15:36 (GMT)
Does it say where the camera was found?
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 15:28 (GMT)
From the page :-

There are 6 films available today in The Dyatlov Pass foundation. There was one more film but it is lost. They have developed it and the pictures are exist but the film itself is missing. Apart from the well known pictures available on the Internet, the films have some rather srange shots which we will discuss below.

The exact number of the cameras in the group is not known. The inventory of the scene lists 3 cameras and there is one tetimony of yet another camera.

The camera № 488797 (Krivonischenko’s) was found with it’s color filter broken and it was attached to a tripod.
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 15:23 (GMT)
DS - i've no problem with criticism, no need for aggression though. No one will ever know for sure what happened.
No need for armchair investigators to get heated...

You say that the ravine male members weren't preservered enough. It is recorded that NTB had two bruises and AK had bleeding in the knee. If they had had cuts and bruises on their hands they would have been noticed and recorded. The evidence is not consistent with fighting but is consistent with the remaining able bodied members franctically digging the ravine four out of (tons?) of snow and hurting their hands on ice, twigs, branches etc. Ditto the face marks on ID, SZ nd RS. The report consistently uses the words abrasions and scratches to describe the marks on all three faces. Not bruises. Imo this is consistent with rescuing the injured from under the snow and not consistent with fighting.

The ball lightning is a well documented phenomena and both myself and Expert have posted videos of it on this page. BL is well documented as burning and exploding with significant force.
http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Ball_lightning.html. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning. "cooperation and death" -
cooperation - they voluntarily shared clothing.
death - they removed clothing from the dead to assist the living.

Svetlana Oss's website - she is a Russian journalist who speaks English and the author of the book on the DPI "Don't go there". You might like to read it as she supports your view of death by violence by humans. Personally i think her conclusion is rubbish but she has researched the case well accessing all the official archives etc.
DS 01-03-2017 15:15 (GMT)
I couldn't find the tripod, saw the word assumption used an awful lot though.
DS 01-03-2017 15:04 (GMT)
That link is pure garbage. She makes her assumptions based on snow. in a picture. of a crimescene that was 25 days old. I refuse to read any further.
DS 01-03-2017 14:51 (GMT)
You cannot come up with any reasonable explanations to my questions. And since my questions are based on solid facts and findings that can hardly be disputed, they are very hard to dismiss are they not? Haven't you wondered about these things yourself?
DS 01-03-2017 14:45 (GMT)
"there are other causes, cooperation, order of death."
care to elaborate on that?


DS 01-03-2017 14:41 (GMT)
I'm sorry if I'm aggressive with my arguments. We have much in common as we both just want to know the answer to a simple question: why?
I have based my theory around the clothing absolutely. but also the injuries and other solid evidence (the fire, the sub zero temps, things that actually exist).
It's a shame the three den men weren't preserved as well as the others. As I'm sure their hands would have answered many questions.
All of your evidence for the hotspot could be proof of almost anything. a flying saucer. a bomb blast.
What exactly is "consistant" about ball lightning? You can't even proove it exists.
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 12:42 (GMT)
DS - wow a lot of posts to read there.

Tripod - http://www.svetlanaoss.com/blog/tag/the-dyatlov-pass-incident/ "LD's chest had fractures on both sides", yes that's simply explained by the explosion. The shockwave could simultaneously fracture several parts of the chest with a compression phase and a vacuum phase.

Evidence for ball lightning, the hot spot of course which is consistent with the snow being melted in high winds (ridges), and the burnt tree tops (but that could be lightning also). The numerous tent slits all at a similar height indicate they were watching something as does the tripod and the in use cameras and photos of night sky with just a dot of white light. The burns and ravine deaths by shockwave are all consistent with ball lightning/lightning.

SZ was placed with the group to ensure the safe return of valuable state assets, particularly perhaps AK as they would be getting near to the Finnish border and defection was a concern of the state. His orders would be to ensure their protection not kill them if he got cold.... Even with a flail chest and the knowledge he was dying he was trying to leave a note to those that found him a professional to the end.

You put great store in that they wore each others clothes as proof of violence. I don't see that at all there are other causes, cooperation, order of death.

That they were found 6-10 metres from the den is imo support for the theory that they were placed there by the remaining able bodied members who dug them out of the snow. It was a nursing station. In particular the bodies were laid so that their heads were only one foot apart. This was to monitor them.

RS didn't have a double skull fracture, only one side was fractured, he had haemorhages on both sides. This can be easily explained by the explosion theory, the shockwave cracked his skull and pushed the other side into the den wall or he landed on the other side of his head. Ditto AK had a snapped neck from being thrown through the air and landing on his head.

Feel free to attack further. Happy
Expert 01-03-2017 12:13 (GMT)
DS /

I don't think some hiker ate some hiker haha
they all died only 6-8 hours after dinner.

You need to explain how the first event happened in the tent. (by some human)
Expert 01-03-2017 12:06 (GMT)
DS /

I am not a ball lightning Expert, haha (you, Ask Nigel that rather than me)
and I am still investigating ball lightning or lightning injuries.
and I am not sure that Sky ball around the tent was nature phenomenon . Rather artificial object of aliens .

but I suggest you :
Lightning doesn't have only power . but these forces- power, electronic,heat


It won't hit a direction because Lightning happen by streaming of electron
(it could hit right and left side of the skull in same time)

lightning bolt - their streaming always doesn't leave burn trace.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3767075/Herd-19-cows-killed-single-lightning-strike-sheltering-tree-storm.html (it doesn't look like sever burns)

Of course, I am still studying lightning . . . http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2933333/The-science-SUPERSTORMS-Diagrams-reveal-perilous-processes-taking-place-tornadoes-thunderstorms-more.html
Expert 01-03-2017 10:05 (GMT)
DS /

My drawing might be around ending .
But give me time to make clear conclusion haha
Expert 01-03-2017 09:57 (GMT)
DS /

Their wears, stuffs are one of the important points. Of course, I am checking out your opinion to get new idea from other viewer
Expert 01-03-2017 09:35 (GMT)
I believe this incident would be related to sky ball . but (as I said) The problem is Whether The origin of Sky ball is on Nature Phenomenon or on Artificial Object (alien craft).
I focus on that.
Most presumptions are useless. They are Away from Logic.
Expert 01-03-2017 09:29 (GMT)
This is why I don't want to say this incident could be related to alien attack.
Expert 01-03-2017 09:27 (GMT)
I know that,, Alien is not monster but intelligent lives who have been evolved from other space.
but Alien conception on many peoples is Monsters in Star wars or other movies .
Evolution would be usual phenomenon because The Universe have common rule of evolution . - Whole star system will have habitable zone in someday as stars are aged
-Atomic that composed earth lives Already have been spread in The Universe through Super Nova explosion . like Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Nitrogen .......(It is mention by Science and it is testified by spectrum analysis)
-time gap(age) between star systems range billions years (evolution difference)
Our star system is young ( supposed around 5billions ) but some stars were aged around 15billions - in big bang range. Those scientific data say intelligent lives are very common than we think. but Many peoples still think aliens are monsters in Hollywood.

Teddy 01-03-2017 08:52 (GMT)
DS / To your last comment - I don't think so. And also your psychological profiling is like the ball lightning, it can't be proved.
Teddy 01-03-2017 08:46 (GMT)
DS/ I like that you are stating the facts when it comes to clothes rotation, injuries etc. but then you turn to interpretation of how and why did it happen and you are in Wonderland as any other theory. You are saying that what killed them is not what chased them out of the tent but they turned against each other, or rather SZ turned into Mr Hyde?
Teddy 01-03-2017 08:33 (GMT)
DS / "He grabbed her by the scruff of the neck and smashed her against the rock." and then he did the same to himself.
Teedy 01-03-2017 08:22 (GMT)
How did SZ take off LD's coat after her death if she was found in this position?
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Lyudmila-Dubinina-post-mortem-1.jpg .

DS / I think they did run and hide. But it wasn't difficult for their murderers to find them, especially with the fire. I think the fire is what fated the group.
Teddy 01-03-2017 08:11 (GMT)
I think what/whoever wanted them dead expected them to die faster. The fire made the murderers go down once again. And finally the hikers better dressed received most of the beating. Like the monster went back again and again to make sure they are or will die. And by monster I mean people, not Yeti and aliens.
Teddy 01-03-2017 08:01 (GMT)
LD died from a fractured rib piercing her heart. If they were beaten at the same time LD would have died long before SZ. Her cause of death is hemorrhage into right atrium of the heart. You can live with so many broken ribs. I am the living proof. I think SZ died relatively long after everybody else.
Expert 01-03-2017 06:26 (GMT)
DS /

The possibility involved to sky ball is high.

1)all course had hot spot from tent to Cedar tree, Ravine (pink sphere is hot spot around tent)
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_cedro.jpg 2) some peoples who experienced the site believed that skyball would be responsible for the incident
(Mansi tribe, search group student, official investigator .. some soviet governors)

3)No Evidence of invasion(no foot trace from outer)

So , I focus on that .

but your idea on human action (murder possibility) is a possibility on my idea .

I discounted some possibilities -animal attack, Yeti, fire in the tent, avalanche , infra sound ..

but I still don't exclude human possibility.

it's possible in the course. (Criminal Possibility in nervous circumstance would be much higher than Usual circumstance)
but
it won't be a basical disaster that drove them into the forest.

Anyway, I am checking out your opinions.
Expert 01-03-2017 00:34 (GMT)
starting point is the key of the mystery .

Mansi seemingly knew everything .
They knew there was something wrong around the region.
but
even Dyatlov groups discounted their opinion , considering just folktale or superstition. and wanted thrill , adventure.
At last,which was connected to their tragic.
Mansi were afraid of the Mountain Naming it Otorten.


Expert 01-03-2017 00:23 (GMT)
Seemingly but Surely, this incident must be relative to Sky ball .

Problem is the origin of Sky ball - Whether it is originated on nature or artificial technology .

How did the ball cause them to be scared ? that would be the point relative to this incident .

Starting point (from tent) is solution of everything .
Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 23:38 (GMT)
DS - Tell me more about the holes in my theory.

Teddy - LD and SZ have the same injuries from the same event?
Teddy 28-02-2017 22:37 (GMT)
Although I can't see the hikers killig each other in a brawl over clothing DS said something that stuck in my mind "whatever or whoever killed LD wasn't enough of an immediate threat for SZ to want to leave, and gave him enough time to retrieve her clothing before it/they attacked him"
Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 20:52 (GMT)
DS - we'll have to agree to disagree, the pathologist was quite clear about the injuries to the ravine four and he didn't mention LD being repeatedly smashed against a rock. He did say that she and SZ had experienced high energy trauma like in a car accident or the shockwave from a bomb and that she probably died before SZ, hence imo the transfered clothing by those left still standing. SZ was the best dressed member of the group from the beginning to the end, he had no reason to resort to violence even if the other strong and fit male members would have allowed it. Also some of the clothing connected with the den was found hanging unused. They were warm in the den?
The bodies weren't heavily decomposed, they had been frozen solid for most of their time under the snow. NTB is recorded as having a bruise on the upper lip and his extensive skull fracture had no tissue damage to explain an impact.
They didn't take a wrong direction down the mountain, the base camp held 55kg of food for the return journey, a mandolin, a spare pair of skis and little else. They deliberately headed to the forest to shelter from the wind, make a fire and watch the tent (from the cedar) for an opportunity to return to it once the threat that had caused them to leave had gone away.
Granted the campfire versus the den suggests a disagreement, but it doesn't have to be so. They could have built the den with the plan to rotate people between it and those keeping watch at the campfire/cedar.
Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 17:42 (GMT)
DS - keep going as much as you want Winking

But the reason that the Soviet Army suffered such huge losses in WW2 was in part due to their battle strategy which favoured hitting the enemy as hard as possible above conserving resources including manpower. One of the ways this was achieved was that in battles the rear guard was composed of NKVD (the forerunner of the KGB) who shot any Russian soldier that dared to retreat. The ordinary Russian soldier had a choice of dying going forward or dying going back. It would be my expectation that survival rates of NKVD were much better. N.B. it was much the same for the ordinary German soldier fighting on the Russian front with the SS taking the place of the NKVD. It was a tough war...

When the rescue party reached the tent they recorded signs of urination some distance from it, so it's a good theory that SZ and NTB had popped out for a pee just at the right moment and hence were fully dressed. Also the footsteps indicate that one or two of them joined the main group further down the slope to support that theory. Also SZ has no injuries consistent with brawling, in fact only ID, RS and ZK have.
Expert 28-02-2017 15:37 (GMT)
It have been reported by UFO witnesses - unknown phenomenon like car doesn't work or .. human lose consciousness .......... they would experience unknown technology .
and they would be attacked by artificial lightning around Cedar or Ravine
Expert 28-02-2017 15:27 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIB3NPTdwmc
Expert 28-02-2017 15:26 (GMT)
This is giant ball lightning video taken in Siberia .
My wonder is ..
These ball could make 9 hikers feel panic mood ,
Causing them to flee from tent to forest At 30' C below 0 with bare foot or slight wears ? ? ?
What a cute ball !

The sky ball hovering around the tent must make them super scared .
Bizarre life came out of the craft or caused unknown fear .

I am reading now the Portugal site through google translation ..
here is a good suggestion by a search group student .
...........


Mikhail Sharávin (UPI student, along with Boris Slobtsov, found the dyátlovtsy tent): "I have an opinion on the question of why they left the tent so urgently: these were probably factors that affected them. They could not breathe. If there was a displacement of the snow, they would not run in such a situation. I think it was the factors associated with the unknown and the inability to continue staying there. They could not breathe! (...) That's why they ran. "

For tourists, the first factor that affected them in relation to the Object was the psychological commotion. Such an object was by no means familiar to the Dyátlovtsy, being for them something inexplicable and unpredictable, and therefore this generated fear and panic. If it represented any understandable technical device, however dangerous it might be, the behavior of young engineers and students would have been different"


Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 13:38 (GMT)
Ball lightning rollers could be of interest wrt the dpi. http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Roller.html The Malvern case describes rolling bl with strong mechanical energy, note the burns and burning of hair on one side (YD). An alternative cause for flail chest injuries (like in a car crash)?
Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 13:21 (GMT)
DS - i'd agree that the distribution of clothes is saying something, but i think it's describing the order of death and the nursing efforts of ID and ZK as detailed below. I think they were sufficiently warm in the den = snow cave to undo some clothing and remove gloves.
Nigel Evans 26-02-2017 17:50 (GMT)
Invisible deadly force creating scratches
http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Hellfire.html
Nigel Evans 26-02-2017 17:24 (GMT)
Expert - yet again thanking you for a good link!
Some of the dpi group had multiple scratches on the face, ZK was found with her face covered in blood from them and an indian professor connects them with ball lightning, well well....

" that is only information you want to hear"
and that's the opinion of the mansi and the police investigator.

What are these deer injuries, i don't know about them?

Didn't understand the rest of your post.
Expert 26-02-2017 16:40 (GMT)
Nigel /

Why do you consider only sky ball except for Menk , that is only information you want to hear ^^ ?

Why Did explosion of BL make bizarre injuries around the day ? containing bizarre injuries of deer.
and
this is a repeated question by me .
BL was hovering around the tent , then bl gave hikers time enough to escape from tent and make a fire ..
after first attack , Ravine group took some wears from 2 death .
and other BL appeared to RaVine hikers (making cold spot around ravine) . and it killed ravine group.

tongue is not soft muscle . but disappeared somewhere ..


Of course, I still am in investigation about BL injuries
http://www.rense.com/general28/ball.htm but Whole course is too weird to be considered as a nature phenomenon .

Nigel Evans 26-02-2017 16:27 (GMT)
Expert - "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - Happy
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/simon_garfunkel/the_boxer.html Happy

As detailed in previous posts, other groups that saw "lights" :-
Management at a nearby colliery same week (and heard two explosions).
Another ski group in the same area in the same week.
The rescue party something like two months later and radioed their concerns to HQ.
Expert 26-02-2017 16:26 (GMT)
Nigel /

How did other groups support Ball lightning ?
Expert 26-02-2017 16:26 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1515ujK7AI
Expert 26-02-2017 16:25 (GMT)
Nigel /

This woman took alien photo with hand phone .
Even there were Medical evidences .
but I don't expect you to believe . .. ^^
Nigel Evans 26-02-2017 13:57 (GMT)
Expert - i don't think the injuries of the ravine four fit with the yeti/menk theory.

No broken limbs, no tissue damage to explain the flail chests and skull fractures.
They fit with barotrauma, i.e. the pathologist's report - "like the shockwave from a bomb".
The ball lightning theory isn't just supported by the Mansi but by other groups of reliable witnesses who saw lights as well in the same area at the same time and even heard explosions..

But lets try the alien theory out.
They flee the tent because a spaceship is hovering nearby, close enough to the ground to melt the snow.
Then they light a fire..... Happy
One of the several fascinating questions of the dpi is what was it that made them flee and prevented them from returning but unafraid to light a fire?
Imo it rules lots of possibilities out like alien, animal, human, any intelligent life, but rules in natural phenomena such as lightning, ball lightning.

I'm not trying to disprove aliens.
In an era of smartphones i look forward to the next Voronezh or nothing, either way in the next say 50 years we should have proof.
But i don't think they're responsible for ball lightning.

N.B. if you want to look for an alternative theory, military testing, perhaps parachute mines would be a good start, with the high winds dispersing the evidence.
Expert 26-02-2017 06:03 (GMT)
Nigel /

Mansi didn't say that was Yeti
(seems the word was mistranslated by Russians)
Menk means ''forest giant'' in Mansi language.
it could be alien from other world (in the Universe)

Check out - my re posting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V20-LSgVN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccdDvkGg6z8
Expert 26-02-2017 05:44 (GMT)


Nigel /


the trace could be left by Alien Craft , too

because Microwave isn't special phenomenon but only a type wave of some electronic waves .

As I said, I did not discount Menk

Mansi tribes sensed there was something wrong around Otorten before the incident. (from bizarre incidents)

there were 2 things mentioned by Mansi .

1 is golden ball
2 is Menk

You discounted 1 of them .



Expert 26-02-2017 05:26 (GMT)
Nigel /

You said that there was hot spot around ravine as well.
Do you have any information About the size, shape of the hot spot ?
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 18:01 (GMT)
As to the question "what creates the microwave system?", a shortwave version of this perhaps? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 17:02 (GMT)
Expert - just to restate - It's not "microwaves come from ball lightning" but "ball lightning comes from microwaves".
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 17:01 (GMT)
Expert - if the microwave energy is sufficiently strong to create a visual plasma at the anti node (BL) then it follows it would be strong enough to excite water molecules nearby (in the snow) and warm them up (melt) just like a microwave oven does. The effect should be circular if the wave system is static.

The same statement can be applied to the (genuine) crop circles were the stems aren't mechanically bent but seem to have folded with heat and steam believed to be due to microwaves and this effect is strongest in the centre and reduces (linearly?) to the circumference.

Seems to be the same thing.
Expert 25-02-2017 16:04 (GMT)


Nigel /

Microwave of Lightning make Ball lightning

Microwave trapped in BL made cold spot (wave type) around the tent.

that wasn't your idea ?
Expert 25-02-2017 15:48 (GMT)
http://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/srep/2016/160622/srep28263/images/w926/srep28263-f1.jpg you did not think (a)example made snow cold spot ?
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 15:40 (GMT)
Expert - good links, the Alaskan event would fit well with the my theory if a large group of nodes all became excited and visual with variable ground radar detection.

The Turkish events would have to be either genuine or a hoax imo, alien implants that just look like bits of glass pushes me to the hoax side...

N.B. i'm not trying to prove aliens don't exist, just that many ufo sightings might have a natural explanation.

It's not "microwaves come from ball lightning" but "ball lightning comes from microwaves".
Expert 25-02-2017 15:18 (GMT)
And We must totally discount Mansi witnesses about Menk ?
personally I don't discount the unknown life

Expert 25-02-2017 14:47 (GMT)
Ball Lightning , Lightning ..
the combination could make the incident .
I admit it s possible (from some hikers injuries)

but the possibility would be very rare.

1 ] BL around the tent made them scared
and they fled from tent to tree .
2 ] then, Lightning hit hikers under tree
3 ] next,,, Other powerful lightning hit hikers around ravine
and 2 hikers got bizarre injuries

why were the regional lightning or bl so bizarre around the incident ?

(some deer got vacant eyesokets as well)
Expert 25-02-2017 14:27 (GMT)
Microwave doesn't come only from ball lightning

I doubt Dubinnina bite tongue or BL caused it to be disappeared .

1)she Bite tongue ? ? ? ? ? ?

I bite my tongue in experiment now, haha ..
then, I bite Only 1/3 .. How HER Tongue could be pull out ?

2 ) BL or Lightning made it disappeared ?

- I Researched BL or Lightning injuries and couldn't find those injuries - removed eyes or tongues

Of course, Then, the force of lightning could make isolated incident .. but I doubt
Expert 25-02-2017 14:03 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdkQxG_q6Pk
Expert 25-02-2017 14:03 (GMT)
Nigel /

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case287.htm .
BL could be watched like those UFO?
Expert 25-02-2017 13:38 (GMT)
Nigel /

I read soldier or Geologist witnessed the several things
Expert 25-02-2017 13:34 (GMT)
Nigel /

Some witnesses said several lightning objects . It couldn't be like this ? Check out 3:22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUEjeYn5Obg
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 12:49 (GMT)
the last post was from my alter ego called "n" Happy
n 25-02-2017 12:48 (GMT)
Even better would be :-
Expert - the bl theory assumes that they stayed at the fire because they were unable to return to the tent because the bl was hovering there, (long enough to soften the snow). Doesn't have to be the same instance of bl that killed them and could have been lightning instead and if it was the same object then if it moved at speed it wouldn't melt the snow.....
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 12:44 (GMT)
Sandro - personally i'll stick with the idea that they left the tent to escape a threat.

Expert - the bl theory assumes that they stayed at the fire because they were unable to return to the tent because the bl was hovering there, (long enough to soften the snow). Doesn't have to be the same instance of bl that killed them and could have been lightning instead.

All - crop circles may be caused by microwave energy - http://www.bltresearch.com/plantab.php n.b. ufo observers report "lights" over the fields on the same nights. Google "youtube cropcircle lights".
Expert 25-02-2017 11:59 (GMT)
Nigel /

I read the site written in Portugal language .

my question is ..

why wasn't the cold spot connected from the tent to the forest ? it mean the object rise up ? (before it chased the 9 hikers.)
Sandro 23-02-2017 14:02 (GMT)
Please check my explanation of the Dyatlov mystery as a conceivable theory at http://tungsteno.blog.tiscali.it/archives/579
Nigel Evans 23-02-2017 12:17 (GMT)
Expert - it's one of your links, drop this into google translate and search for "cold spot".
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm
Nigel Evans 23-02-2017 12:05 (GMT)
Expert - "Eyes witness with radar trace. "
Yes that's the point, the invisible microwave that can be seen by radar (depending on wavelength) can produce an object (ball lightning) that can be seen visually.
I'll have a dig for the hot spot.
Expert 23-02-2017 05:20 (GMT)
I can explain DPI with alien attack .
but this is so easy way .. like Pyramid was constructed with aliens . haha
I focus on nature phenomenon or human action
Nigel Evans 21-02-2017 08:33 (GMT)
Just re read my post, i meant to say "If an aircraft approaches being a metal object it will disturb the standing wave system and the changes will be seen to move very quickly."
Nigel Evans 16-02-2017 20:14 (GMT)
Building on this, it occurs to me that this is an explanation for UFOs.

If ball lightning can form in the antinode of a standing microwave system - https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi7vMrNtJXSAhUF2BoKHYPXB_8QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.antonine-education.co.uk%2FPages%2FPhysics_2%2FWaves%2FWAV_04%2FWaves_Page_4.htm&bvm=bv.147448319,d.d2s&psig=AFQjCNFITaQnu6KUXot7T0d6Dcw0ZrAM1w&ust=1487361755810914 Then what if the "ball" can become elongated and form a cigar? What if the the cigar becomes circular and forms a disc? If several antinodes in a line form balls then you have a "string of pearls".
The microwave standing wave system might produce radar frequencies and appear on radar. If an aircraft approaches this metal object it will disturb the standing wave system and the changes will be seen to move very quickly.

Now read this - http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chasing-ufos/articles/five-good-reasons-to-believe-in-ufos/
Nigel Evans 15-02-2017 08:34 (GMT)
Eureka!

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep28263 "Ball lightning, a fireball sometimes observed during lightnings, has remained unexplained. Here we present a comprehensive theory for the phenomenon: At the tip of a lightning stroke reaching the ground, a relativistic electron bunch can be produced, which in turn excites intense microwave radiation. "

N.B. the paper is from Nature a respected scientific journal.

So building on this paper, lightning produces intense microwave energy which can result in cattle mutilations and other effects - "Others57 reported skin redness, vomiting and loss of hair, which are typical results of ionizing radiation".

From historical records it is known that ball lightning can electrocute and explode so it provides a complete theory for the DPI, it can explain the fleeing from the tent, burns, barotrauma, loss of tongue, skin colour, hair loss, vomiting. The rescue from the collapsed den can explain injuries to hands and face consistent with fighting. It's all there.

The local mansi people had it right all along, it was the golden orbs....
Expert 15-02-2017 07:58 (GMT)
Of course, modern sleeping bag must be evolved than then. but I wondered - if they were the experienced hikers, why did not use sleeping bag ? and I wandered it as well - they felt very cold in the tent. but Why 2 Yuris were in slight wears in the tent.

Why 2 Yuris..............in terrible weather
????? why ?
Admin 14-02-2017 17:43 (GMT)
Syed Ikram Abidi said on FB: "Unanswered questions even for gravity theory:
1. The footsteps seemed to show a rather organized descent in group and the number showing all 9 people walking out of tent.
2. The gravity affected them so strongly and yet each of the contents in the tent even their shoes remained "as is" with no signs of sudden departure.
And many more...
Well thats why it will remain a mystery."
Nigel Evans 14-02-2017 17:42 (GMT)
I've just read the updated "Theories" page which includes an excellent section on Ball Lightning Happy

But wrt the gravity theory or lack of it.
Apparently a feature of cattle mutilations is that the animals can be found on snow or mud where there are no sign of any tracks leading to the animal.
It's as if they dropped from the sky....
However in the case of the DPI, the footprints would seem to undermine this a little Happy
Nigel Evans 13-02-2017 14:01 (GMT)
I've been thinking about the injuries attributed to fighting, specifically to the hands and the face and have an alternative theory.

These injuries seem to belong solely to ID, RS and ZK.

According to my "ravine explosion theory" these three are the last able bodied members (RS perhaps limited capability).

So what if the explosion resulted in a collapsed den burying them in deep snow?

The remaning three - ID, RS, ZK would try and rescue them and dig them out with their bare hands? They would know that time would be limited and they would have to work fast using their hands as shovels, picking up bruising, cuts and scratches on their hands. This might also involve tunneling resulting in a lot of facial scratches (from ice and twigs). There could perhaps be a further collapse of a rescue tunnel injuring RS who could originally be able bodied?

The rav4 were found in a close group with their heads together (one foot apart). SZ was wearing two items of LD's clothing. This fits with the pathologist's report that SZ outlived LD, so those looking after the victims removed clothing from LD after she died to make SZ more comfortable. They were found 6-10 meters from the den in a tight group because that's were the rescuers placed them after digging them out of the den.

As to the question, if the den collapsed do we need an explosion theory at all? Well i'm not qualified to differentiate the injuries between an explosion or the crushing force of a collapsed den (tonnes of snow?). A distinct feature here is that the strong force required to split rib cages didn't break any limbs at all, which imo favours explosion over crushing. So i'd still favour an explosive shock wave that created the flail chests but moved all the snow above as well collapsing the den and burying them.
Admin 12-02-2017 12:35 (GMT)
Rain /
You already asked this question on 2016-11-30 17:07:24
Rain 12-02-2017 10:33 (GMT)
Was there any blood found in Ms. Dubininas stomach?
Teddy 10-02-2017 23:14 (GMT)
Good arguments.
Nigel Evans 10-02-2017 23:00 (GMT)
Teddy - my research has it that :-
1. they had no use for the stove that night because they had no firewood. They travelled with 3 axes and some knives and would have collected firewood locally around the camp each evening. But that night of course was unusual in that they were above the treeline. It's possible that there was a change of plan due to the storm and they were originally planning to spend the night at the forest (with a hot stove). Their loads when they started out with all the food for the trip were 40kg for the men and 30kg for the girls. No room or need to carry firewood on your backs!
2. Most of their food (50kg) was left at the base camp for the return journey. From memory they had a 3kg piece of smoked brisket (beef) and some signs (pieces of rind) of consuming it that evening presumably cold. Although note that most of them hadn't eaten for 6-8 hours.
3. A flask of alcohol was found in the tent, i'm not aware of a report that says they were intoxicated.
4. Some of the burnt clothing will be from drying their kit on the stove for too long in previous evenings.

So i think the author has his facts wrong and more importantly skips over the central question that they had no time to collect footwear and outer clothing and were unable to return to the tent for some time afterwards. Difficult to blame that on some smoke....
Teddy 10-02-2017 18:41 (GMT)
A video about the stove causing the incident https://youtu.be/Y8RigxxiilI .

I know Nigel commented on Luk that "the stove was found dismantled, it wasn't used that evening" but the video says that there was fried bacon and ham (never heart of that before) so the stove must have been used earlier and an ember reignited after the stove was taken apart. The stove theory starts after the min 13:20. Another thing bothered me 5:27 "It should also be noted that four of them had died while intoxicated." referring to the first 5 bodies. I have to check just for my files how much was the alcohol in their blood, and presuming it was the men excluding Zina. MHO the facts are shaped around this theory. Every time somebody introduces a theory facts are being manipulated. Like the cooked food and consumed alcohol. I know they carried vodka, but no empty bottles were found.
Nigel Evans 09-02-2017 16:28 (GMT)
Expert - imo there is a fit between lightning, microwaves and cattle/mammal mutilations (CM) and possibly the DPI. I think there is something waiting for science to discover here that's got nothing to do with aliens Happy

Afaik the main features of CM are :-
1. Missing eyes and tongue at the front, missing genitalia and anal (blood rich) muscle at the rear.
2. Blood missing.
3. Cauterised wounds at the front and rear orificies (no bleeding).
4. No other damage to skin/hide.
5. Internal organs intact but unusual coloration.

The selectivity of the injuries seems to somehow be a fit with those posts on microwaves. Grapes = eyes, hot dogs = tongue.
Nigel Evans 08-02-2017 13:52 (GMT)
So that would be an explanation for LD's tongue and all cattle mutilations including the human mutilation brazil case. Microwave radiation that is present within thunder/lightning clouds, travels down a lightning bolt that acts as waveguide (tube) and any mammal close by suffers flash heating of blood rich tissue but not (fatty) skin creating specific repeatable injuries.
Nigel Evans 08-02-2017 13:43 (GMT)
http://ethw.org/Biological_Effects_of_Electromagnetic_Radiation "Complex spherical models of the human head consisting of a core of brain tissue and spherical shells simulating the skull and the scalp indicated that hot spots or localized regions of high energy absorption could occur in the center of the brain with magnitudes much higher than observed at the surface of the head due to the focusing of energy by the high dielectric constant and spherical shape of the head (Shapiro et ale [161], Guy [71]). More extensive analyses using spherical, prolate spherical, and ellipsoidal models created a much better understanding of the absorbed energy patterns in the bodies of man and animals exposed to EM fields (Ho et ale [78], Durney et ale [38], Johnson et ale [86], Massoudi et ale [113], Gandhi [62], Allen et ale [3])."

From memory expert's link to that russian site discusses the appearance of brain tissue.

But separate to that, it would follow that if the head focuses EM radiation then the greatest effect would be observed in the blood rich muscle tissue within the head, i.e. the tongue...
Nigel Evans 08-02-2017 13:08 (GMT)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation_and_health Shortwave RF

Shortwave diathermy heating of human tissue only heats tissues that are good electrical conductors, such as blood vessels and muscle. Adipose tissue (fat) receives little heating by induction fields because an electrical current is not actually going through the tissues.[19]
Nigel Evans 08-02-2017 12:50 (GMT)
You'll never eat a grape again....
https://www.wired.com/2014/05/wuwt-microwave-metal/ video clip at the bottom, grape microwave plasma.


https://www.wired.com/2014/05/wuwt-microwave-metal/ This same electromagnetic activity can do a number on metal. The oscillation of the microwaves can produce a concentrated electric field at corners or an edge of a metallic object, ionizing the surrounding air “so you can hear it popping away,” says Ross. You might also see sparking, which “is a little like lightning,” she adds. This kind of microwave sound and light show isn’t limited to metal. Ross sometimes puts on a demonstration for her kids: She cuts up hot dogs, creating sharp edges, and “watches the electric sparks jumping between them.”
Nigel Evans 07-02-2017 23:38 (GMT)
Wrt natural causes, one of the explanations for ball lightning is - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning#Microwave_cavity_hypothesis "Microwave cavity hypothesis

Pyotr Kapitsa proposed that ball lightning is a glow discharge driven by microwave radiation that is guided to the ball along lines of ionized air from lightning clouds where it is produced. The ball serves as a resonant microwave cavity, automatically adjusting its radius to the wavelength of the microwave radiation so that resonance is maintained.[66][67]

The Handel Maser-Soliton theory of ball lightning hypothesizes that the energy source generating the ball lightning is a large (several cubic kilometers) atmospheric maser. The ball lightning appears as a plasma caviton at the antinodal plane of the microwave radiation from the maser.[68]"

microwave radiation could perhaps explain the loss of iron rich soft tissues in cattle mutilations, blood, tongue, anal muscle....
Nigel Evans 07-02-2017 21:40 (GMT)
Expert - i understand your point that to explain this as natural causes requires the group to have been quite unlucky and that this justifies looking at other theories involving intelligence.

I'll stay with natural causes that science has yet to explain properly.
Nigel Evans 07-02-2017 16:38 (GMT)
expert - tell me more about the bizarre life wandering the forest?
Nigel Evans 06-02-2017 11:08 (GMT)
Expert - your photo looks like 3.5 seats! Happy
Ok it's my assumption that the photo represents 4 seats that have been disturbed. Certainly doesn't look like 7 or 9. Four deaths in the ravine and what looks like four seats... Plus injuries consistent with fighting. Hence a reasonable assumption that the group split up.
Nigel Evans 06-02-2017 08:24 (GMT)
Expert - there were only 4 seats in the den, so it's seems very reasonable that the group split into two or there would be more seats.
Expert 05-02-2017 17:59 (GMT)
If this was nature disaster, I expect it - they all would die in tent . because the tent was isolated place where all disaster power could focus .
Expert 05-02-2017 17:10 (GMT)
I think ... about why the group was divided into three group .

they were not divided , but just working in each role.
-They make a fire under Cedar tree,,because of sever weather. but they got aware - that can be dangerous .
so well dressed peoples go to dig a den , slightly dressed peoples (2peoples) warm bodies around little fire.
3 peoples (igor group) collect branches and carry to the den.
Then there are first attack around Cedar .


I am still investgating this incident. - the 4 peoples were known to die at last moment.
Expert 05-02-2017 16:54 (GMT)
Puzzled /
we maybe don't know most important information.

some soviet governors would know it .



Expert 05-02-2017 15:55 (GMT)
Hungarus /

ok, your mention is thoughtful
but
those photos have been spread on internet.
and this site exist for debating the cause.

the important thing to me is how they got the injury. I don't want to know who they are..
but wanna know what force through the injuries.
Nigel Evans 05-02-2017 12:29 (GMT)
Puzzled - the den only had 4 seats so it's clear that the group split up, probably due to ID and SZ arguing over the decision making. YD and YK might have been dead by then also. So plenty of reasons for a brawl. They shouldn't have left the base camp in snow storm, "caution is the better part of valour", "safety first". I'm sure there was a disagreement over that and tempers boiled over.
Puzzled 05-02-2017 09:54 (GMT)
Dear all, I wondered if it is possible that the incident took place somewhere different and then after some time, the bodies -dead or alive- carried by the military to the Dyatlv Pass after interrogation. Pros: 1) we do not know the exact time of death. Last photo and diary entry belongs to feb 1 and the tent is found on feb 24...all we know is tourists are dead appr. a couple of hours after their last meal...are we absolutely sure that ie the team did not die/left to dyatlv pass on feb14? 2) extensive non lethal wounds on the team members, ie knuckle wounds that resembles a fist fight and especially cuts. Might be due to interrogation? 3) missing films and diaries from the tent 4) the piece of clothing found around the tent that does not belong to the tourists Cons: skin pieces on cedar tree bark...
Admin 03-02-2017 19:58 (GMT)
Hungarus/
Can you right click, View Image Info, copy the name of the images you consider offensive and send them to info(at)dyatlov-pass.com
Hungarus 03-02-2017 17:52 (GMT)
Please black out the intimate body parts of the deceased. Thank you.
Expert 02-02-2017 10:03 (GMT)
Gull Cottage /

I don't think the tribe told a lie.
but I think they knew a wrong truth - that was not Yeti and the program,,Russian Yeti,, drove the being to Yeti.


Expert 02-02-2017 09:53 (GMT)
admin , Nigel /

great working of him.
I am very interested ,, I feeling like time-machine photo. haha
(I got wrong information ?? I thought their skin turn brown , but she just got brown spot.)

I highly appreciate lightning presumption of Nigel - the possibility seems to be higher than I thought earlier ,,
I got the awareness after research lightning disasters on internet...

Of course, I have some reasons I keep alien attack presumption.

I will debate diverse possibility with open mind .




Nigel Evans 02-02-2017 09:04 (GMT)
Gull Cottage - arguments against a cover up :-
1. The government spent a lot of money investigating it.
2. The first thing Boris Yeltsin did on taking control of the country was to interview the relevant management to discover what they knew about the DPI.
3. "Unknown and compelling force" isn't very creative as a cover up. Imo it's the best argument against one.
Gull Cottage 02-02-2017 03:55 (GMT)
For 54 years life went on as normal, then While watching the Discovery Channel, The Yeti Lives (I think that was the title?) ...with little interest, don't get me wrong I believe that the Yeti is real. The DC reaches deep into the tradegy, based on one photo to fit their documentary. During this brief snippet my jaw dropped and I instantly grabbed my computer and MY journey into this surreal event started. Like so many others, as I read comments over many years, it seems that SOME are truely COMPLELLED to research only credible facts to consider the truth vs. fantasy. My first attempt at finding facts left me horrified and overwhelmed with sadness, to imagine having to tell their families of the unbelievably painful passing of their children. Each new research session moved me from a heavy heart to "wait a minute, this can't be right" then the deeper I searched I started getting madder and madder, realizing this was a complete set up. The "RED HERRINGS" are endless and the list of facts, based on ALL the investigations, photos, diaries and first hand accounts are far to many to mention. Like so many, I go over every detail available and come back to - NO WAY this is anything but a cover up by "The Powers That Be" circa, 1959 Russia. The only revaluation I thought of concerning possible cause, was that in the 1950's the Soviet Union was doing R&D on Laser (Maser) technology. This effort was geared solely toward warfare but would later be applied to many other positive applications. The first U.S. patient was in 1960. This will be my only post, only to honor the memory of The Dyatlov Expedition members and their families. This historical event can become addictive and unproductive. My faith lies completely in Jesus Christ and I will wait to find out the truth when I reach the other side.
Nigel Evans 01-02-2017 22:15 (GMT)
admin - happy to do so even though all three are from wikipedia! Happy and thanks for the interest.

[20] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning [21] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundersnow [22] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning scroll down to "Positive and negative lightning"

as an aside note the comment that aircraft might not be protected from positive polarity lightning....

btw it's lightning not lightening.

I forgot to mention that Ivanov apparently favoured "the fireball theory", perhaps your entry should correct that.

Cheers Nigel.
Admin 01-02-2017 21:03 (GMT)
Nigel Evans/
Can you give me the references [20], [21] and [22], I want to rephrase my text for your theory that I published under http://dyatlov-pass.com/theories#lightening
Nigel Evans 01-02-2017 18:29 (GMT)
Seems the contribution has been deleted because it is "original research without a reliable source". Well if it's that new (and original) it wont have a reliable source! Other than the author Happy
I've complained and pointed out that the explanation section should state that Ivanov favoured ball lightning (although that gets a mention further on) and my contribution is to observe that cold weather lightning could explain the injuries together with suggesting a timeline. Imo more sensible than yetis and infrasound...
Nigel Evans 01-02-2017 17:56 (GMT)
@all - or i'm trying to add my theory to wikipedia but someone is undoing it! Here's my contribution :-

Ball lightning and Lightning
Nigel Evans at http://dyatlov-pass.com/comments has proposed an explanation for the event including a combination of ball lightning and lightning strikes. The tent slits, hot spot near the tent and a camera on a makeshift tripod suggest that they were observing something in the sky. Given that the local Mansi people blamed the golden orbs for the tragedy and the repeated sightings of lights in the sky from reliable witnesses in the same period together with photos from the group's cameras possibly of aerial lights, it is plausible that the group fled from the tent due to an occurrence of ball lightning [20] getting very close to the tent and hovering there melting the snow beneath to create the hot spot. The group then hurried to the treeline 1500 metres away and lit a fire whilst they waited for the object to disappear. The theory then describes how the two deaths at the cedar were due a single electrocution event (due to normal lightning strike or ball lightning) creating burnt hair, bleeding head orifices, large burns, burnt clothing, pulmonary edema and tree damage and the subsequent four deaths in the ravine due to an explosion event near to the den (again due to a more powerful lightning strike or ball lightning). Although cold weather lightning is rare it is possible see [21]. The theory suggests that the ravine lightning strike hit close to the den and vapourised a substantial quantity of stream water, snow and ice (positive polarity strikes - [22] can produce 300,000 amps and temperatures several times hotter than the surface of the sun, e.g. 30,000C) creating an explosion amplified by the confines of the ravine that threw the den and it's occupants 6 to 10 metres resulting in blunt force injuries similar to a car accident or barotrauma. The theory suggests that the three surviving members died in two groups, RS was injured and urgently had to be returned to the tent assisted by ZK. Due to snow drifts and high winds he collapsed on the journey and ZK also further on due to the same plus exhaustion from the effort of assisting him. ID remained with the ravine four as LD and SZ although badly injured stayed alive for some time afterwards and NTB was unconcious. ID may have stripped the two bodies at the cedar (turning the bodies) to provide more insulation for those still alive and possibly contributed some of his own. Some time later he decided to abandon his vigil and return to the tent but died being the only member of the group to have clear signs of hypothermia.


The above may or may not appear on the wikipedia page depending...
Admin 01-02-2017 17:27 (GMT)
Thumbs up
Nigel Evans 01-02-2017 17:15 (GMT)
@all i've added my theory to wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident and linked to this page.

@admin - i've included the link on the assumption that you approve of the exposure, please advise if otherwise.
It's only me 01-02-2017 13:52 (GMT)
I just wanted to say thank you for the website. I've recently played the computer game Kholat and it has got me interested in the mystery. This website is solely responsible for generating my interest further, thank you for the valuable information.

Personally, a combination of madness and fear of an avalanche caused the incident. But I've ordered some books and I look forward to piecing it all together soon.
Nigel Evans 30-01-2017 12:08 (GMT)
Expert - i don't see how they could take photos of lightning with that camera equipment. They'd be photographing something more persistent, like...... Happy
Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 17:27 (GMT)
Ken - surely the slits and the camera on a tripod indicate they were observing from within the tent.
None of the ravine 4 could have walked after their injuries. AK snapped neck, LD+SZ flail chests.

Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 17:16 (GMT)
I disagree2 - by the way the cedar was by far the the tallest tree at that location. Plus if the wind dropped the rising plasma from the fire could have encouraged a strike.

ken 29-01-2017 15:58 (GMT)
Author Keith McCloskey has calculated that some of the group were outside the tent photographing some kind of light in the sky for at least 2 mins ( this is deduced by reference to the Yakimenko examination of the negatives of the group cameras and a video presentation of lecture Yakimenko made at the Ural Federal University at the annual Dyatlov Conference 2015) and alludes to the fact that SZ leaves the tent fully dressed with his camera still around his neck making it very likely in his understandable opinion that there is a clear connection between the lights and their flight but like the rest of us cant pin down what that might be....2 of these negatives seem to depict a section of rocket or plane which may have broken off after a failed military experiment of possibly a 2 stage rocket launch.I believe this however coincided with something else going on as i believe that the 4 in the den were injured there and that certainly Tibo could not have walked after his injuries ,that is if we are to accept the footprint evidence or indeed any of the evidence as real and not dressed-up after the event by the Military once we decide upon how the Military may have known that they were there...... were they stalked or did predators come upon them by accident?If they were stalked was this the real reason that they took a wrong turn onto the mountain away from their planned route?Was the Military stalking them? Was SZ a KGB minder so this was unnecessary?Did Khanty hunters stalk them and did the Shaman interpret the unusual lights in the night sky as permission from the spirits to uphold their tradition that to them the mountain was sacred and forbidden to strangers especially to women who may not gaze upon it?Indeed had some of the group cut slit holes so as to surveil where their stalkers might be? ( i write this assuming that someone cant come up with a solution to how an apparent rocket or plane wing caused their deaths and their bodies to be found in various locations well away from the tent or why after the event they should have chosen to get out of it ) The case of the Khanty hunters made by Svetlana Oss ends with a possible clue regarding a rifle but no more is heard about that.There may be a number of problems with the Khanty hunter did it scenario such as 1) if the aim was to kill the tourists by hypothermia why did they allow some of the group to leave the tent fairly well-dressed : for all they knew these individuals may have continued walking away making them very hard to find again or did they go with them on skis and 2) why didnt they kill them at the tent if ritualistic murder was always their intention? The negatives referred to above are shown in the appendix of Keiths 2nd book journey to Dyatlov Pass an explanation ( and whilst i dont want to be rude to him but there isnt one here)

Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 13:41 (GMT)
I disagree2 - i look forward to your theory for the burnt tree tops.
I disagree2 29-01-2017 13:19 (GMT)
Great info. But I insist, several lightenings (at least 4 or 5 in the theory) and all of them ignores tallest conductors? I'm still scheptical about the theory. But nice info!
Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 13:14 (GMT)
I disagree - http://stormhighway.com/lightning_always_strikes_tallest_object_myth.php
I disagree 29-01-2017 13:04 (GMT)
About the lightening theory, they wheren't on the highest spot of the pass. Actually there are plenty of higher spots on the map that a lightening would strike first...
Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 12:28 (GMT)
Expert - good link. interesting that ZK's and ID bruises were believed to be due to rope marks. Could have been due to exertions of previous days of course.
Admin 29-01-2017 11:50 (GMT)
Expert/
It certainly does. I am adding links to Dyatlovmania page as I follow your discussion and I will certainly translate some of the content of this site. Your comments are much appreciated.
Admin 29-01-2017 11:37 (GMT)
First was discovered Liuda, then the others
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Lyudmila-Dubinina-post-mortem-1.jpg
Admin 29-01-2017 11:35 (GMT)
The search party covered the bodies and left them there through the night.
Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 11:07 (GMT)
asrin - my theory is that they died where found, no one was moved.

curious - lots of snow plus lots of wind equals little snow in exposed sites and lots of snow in sheltered places (wind drifts). The ravine was full to the brim (flat) with snow.
We don't know what YK and YD wore, ZK+RS were well dressed.

Expert - the branch probably broke off in the wind Happy. If lightning can do this - http://suffolk-cache.iwitness24.co.uk/en/photos/news/2012-04-21/2305/oak-tree-struck-by-lightning/medium/3349-storm-010-jpg.jpg it can break a branch.
Expert 29-01-2017 10:36 (GMT)
Curious /

This is the things I can answer.
1) They fell or were thrown into snow pile around ravine .

2) The Question was one of the reasons why I suspected they were sacrificed by artificial force.

3) I don't know what you mean. that is trustworthy information ?
Expert 29-01-2017 10:36 (GMT)
Nigel /

Do you think this broken branch was caused by lightning ?
http://gipotezi.ru/sites/default/files/images/1(4).jpg This would be made by someone climbing tree to watch out the force , and he left skin tissue of him on Cedar bark .

Do you think
they couldn't know that was a nature disaster since they fled from the tent ? ?

[ other disaster they encountered was sever weather.
If I was one of them, I would return fastly for some clothes , shoes, tent.
So I guess there was the force around tent ]
Curious 29-01-2017 09:45 (GMT)
Hi, I observe some oddities that have not been discussed throughly:
1) The amount of snow on the area: When the search party arrived,there were still foot prints around the tent and through the forest for some 500mts. So it did not snow much after the incident...How come the 4 corpses in the ravine found under 4mts of snow?
2) It is also strange that only the better clothed team members (found in the ravine) have mortal wounds. It is as if someone used brutal force as a last resort only for the skiers that will not be killed by the cold weather...Government involvement?
3) Offical cover up/disinformation: Maria Ivanovna (medical assistant) claims she saw 11 bodies not 9...But the ravine group was found 3 months later so, she should have seen 5 (or 7 seven bodies first) then + 4 corpses, 3 months later..
IMHO, official reports may not be that trustworthy.
asrın sırrı 28-01-2017 23:17 (GMT)
I guess you do not understand what I want to say @ Nigel.
LD, SK received fatal wounds near the cedar tree. Were taken to the side of the river afterwards?
Nigel Evans 28-01-2017 22:46 (GMT)
asrin - do you mean why did they go to the ravine if the cedar had proved to be dangerous?
asrın sırrı 28-01-2017 20:18 (GMT)
@Nigel, hi.

So LD, SK, before the death of the cedar was next to the tree, then taken to the side of the river, was not safe place?
Nigel Evans 28-01-2017 13:45 (GMT)
Expert - interesting question about the eyeballs, don't know why they were blanked out.

"I think those were burnt by their fire around Cedar tree".
Well it is a big burn, 31cm, charred down to the tissue. He would have to be unconscious (or dead).
Nigel Evans 28-01-2017 13:14 (GMT)
Expert - "And it is not weird for lightning to melt only snow without affecting soil or making holes ? ? "

No, if the stream provided a good earth then the current wouldn't leave a crater, it would just follow the stream overground. Might vapourise the stream of course. If there was any damage to the stream bed this would be hidden by the water which would have strengthened by the time they were found.
Nigel Evans 28-01-2017 12:56 (GMT)
Expert - lightning strikes differ considerably in their strength. 90% of people survive a strike. But the stronger ones can throw a victim thirty feet through the air causing them to typically land on their head. Another feature is that much of the current can travel on the outer layer of clothing causing it vapourise in the heat. So victims of strong lightning strikes can be found dead, naked with head injuries prompting the police investigation to initially consider lethal violence. If the victim is female then sexual violence.
Or they can be found with severe burns of course.

It all depends on the current and it's strength and path to earth. Some people just feel a strong tingle and live, some get killed, thrown and stripped naked, others get bad burns.

So my theory is :-

Cause of fleeing from the tent - lightning strike close to the tent or ball lightning. The slits and hot spot could be due to either, the camera on a tripod favours ball lightning.

Cause of deaths at fire - mild lightning strike directly hitting the 2 yuris, damaging the cedar branches and scorching the tree tops. Also creates burnt clothing.

Cause of deaths in ravine - the group had split into two due to fighting. The ravine four made a snow cave that had four seats. RS went to talk to them. A powerful explosion occurred close to the den either by a lightning strike or ball lightning. This threw the rav4 6 to 10 metres from the den (with a lot of snow) into the stream. LD and SZ got the shockwave the worst, NTB and AK less but they suffered a severe skull fracture and a broken neck as they landed. RS being nearby was thrown but not violently enough to be fatal (or he was lucky) but still another head injury. RS was found to have wrinkled "prune" skin on his feet. A possible cause is that he landed in the stream and his right boot filled with water.

Cause of death of last three - ID, ZK rush over to help. The explosion has thrown tons of snow into the air and off the trees which is covering the bodies. LD and SZ are still alive but unable to move. AK is dead with a broken neck and NTB is unconcious (and never recovers) from the head injury. RS is moving, dazed but concious. Clearly RS's only chance is to get him back to the tent. So ZK leaves with RS whilst ID tends to the wounded and the dying. But the wind and/or the snow drifts defeat them and RS collapses, his body still warm enough to melt the snow beneath him. ZK is stronger but she falls into a deep snow drift that defeats her, she dies from exhaustion (RS would have been a big burden) but not hypothermia.
ID stays at the ravine trying to help LD, NTB and SZ. as a true professional KGB agent, SZ is trying to write in his diary but fails. LD is alive for 20 minutes (the patholgist estimated this from the internal bleeding this is apparently possible even though a rib had punctured her heart). Although three are still alive ID cannot leave them to freeze to death, he tries to make them comfortable by stripping the two Yuris of their clothes and dressing the survivors with extra layers whilst he waits for ZK to return. He waits but he is getting very cold. Finally he decides that ZK isn't returning (or all three appear to be dead) and heads for the tent. But he has waited too long and is the only member of the group that dies with the classic symptoms of hypothermia.
Nigel Evans 25-01-2017 13:02 (GMT)
Expert - http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/what-does-it-look-when-person-gets-struck-lightning/ "Although these marks look pretty damn cool, they are extremely rare, and most people come off much worse when struck by lightning! So don't try to recreate them at home by shocking yourself. "

Good advice Happy
asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 23:35 (GMT)
I guess they did not leave traces. And even if they cause the bones to break, should they cause harm to the soft bones? Maybe it's a ridiculous theory.
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 23:33 (GMT)
asrin - well as far as i know it's a new theory, but i think they would leave some tracks?
asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 23:03 (GMT)
I have heard that there may be deers in the dyatlov gated area. Could the deer have crushed the mountaineers?

http://www.nolm.us/wp-content/uploads/kanadada-serbestce-dolasan-ren-geyigi-surusu-nolmus-15.jpg
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 22:56 (GMT)
asrin - "deer rug could have crushed them" doesn't translate?
asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 22:01 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans
Do you think the deer rug could have crushed them? (:
asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 21:23 (GMT)
@Expert
Tongue and eyes can be eaten by rotten or flying rattles for a long time due to snow and river water.
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 19:55 (GMT)
Expert :-

1. lightning just outside the tent, (hot spot) scared them into running away. The slits are from watching lightning approach. If it's 2-3 miles away you can't even hear the thunder due to the snow (thundersnow). So it could quite scary.
2. Cedar and ravine could have been one multiple strike or two seperate strikes. I favour one strike that splits into two. Lichtenberg figures are typically were the victim lives from a mild strike. Note you can't see any on this guy - http://www.eplasty.com/article_images/eplasty08e46_fig1.gif One of the Yuris had black arms from the hands to the elbow and a 31 cm burn on the leg and foot. Good question why the autopsy didn't ask about electrocution. All the evidence fits including pulmonary edema (but several causes for that one).
Expert 24-01-2017 19:24 (GMT)
I will study lightning presumption more .. as it is possible on my thought
Expert 24-01-2017 19:21 (GMT)
Of course, I think lightening is the best idea of nature disaster. I will study this more
but even this doesnot look perfect. .
Expert 24-01-2017 19:12 (GMT)

Nigel /

this is the looks when eagles were struck by lightning .
http://m0.i.pbase.com/o3/90/560490/1/89247750.UgDu57WV.05.JPG this is the looks of human struck by lightning
he was not burnt , but got mark
https://i2.wp.com/www.capturedlightning.com/frames/human_LF2.jpg My question
1950's Experts couldn't know their injury were related to lightning ?
4 peoples dig a den after lightning strike around cedar . and third strike ? 1, 2, 3 ?


Expert 24-01-2017 18:17 (GMT)
They were frightened by lightning collision
They fled from the tent urgently
They gathered around cedar tree
They were attacked by second lightning around Cedar
They got damaged
They scattered from Cedar

Expert 24-01-2017 18:05 (GMT)
(I focus on lightning possibility. . Except for presumption on aliens)
Expert 24-01-2017 17:54 (GMT)
At least, you need to complete explaining removed eyes or tongue ,,
it is hard homework for lightning ^ ^
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 17:41 (GMT)
Expert - no, my "lightning at the tent" theory is that the strike was near the tent at the hot spot. So no need to consider burn marks on the tent.
Expert 24-01-2017 17:36 (GMT)
Nigel /
If lightning was responsible for the incident, the tent was burnt by it , wasn't it ?
Expert 24-01-2017 17:27 (GMT)
asrın sırrı /
Well, I think avalanche presumption is very unlikely.
only a little snow covered the tent ! and there were many footprint from tent to 500M site. even a little wind could cause tent in steep hill to be covered.
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 16:11 (GMT)
asrin - problems with the avalanche theory :-
1. there's no sign of one, not even a small slab avalanche. Alpine experts were part of the investigation.
2. their last meal was 6-8 hours previously so it's highly probable that they died by 8-9pm. So they weren't sleeping. Very likely to have been sitting.
3. No broken limbs which could be expected.
4. The footprints would have indicated if people were being carried or limping.
5. LD's and SZ's injuries were too severe for them to go anywhere even if stretchered. LD had a broken rib pushed into her heart. Impossible for those two to have walked or even be helped, the flail chests meant that each breath would have been extremely painful. They died quickly afterwards, with SZ found trying to make a note in his diary. If they had have died at the tent then why not leave them there? Or else drag the bodies?


asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 15:37 (GMT)
A russian scientist predicts;
The mountaineers were sleeping in the tent, perhaps crossing the sleepers in a small avalanche.
Sleeping at the entrance of the tent door RUSTEM SLOBODIN (not much damage) LIUDMILA DUBININA, SEMIAN ZOLOTARYOV, NIKOLAI THIBEAUX-BRIGNOLLES are injured due to the avalanche effect.
The mountaineers are tearing the tent on this event and bring their wounded friends to the forest side more safely. There are a total of 8 footprints on the ground. Because probably NIKOLAI THIBEAUX-BRIGNOLLES died in the tent. 5 people who are in good condition after they hurt their wounded friends also die hypothermia.
It is quoted in a document. Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rItOKPEiC4
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 10:50 (GMT)
Expert - the hotspot could have been from a lightning strike. If so then it's possible that they got an electric shock from the voltage difference (if they weren't insulated within the tent they could have been killed). The bamboo pole might have been damaged by the strike. Clearly it would make sense to immediately evacuate the exposed position on the hill and seek shelter within the tree line and build a big fire to stay warm.
Expert 24-01-2017 09:47 (GMT)
Nigel / -25'c with slight clothing is not a nature threat ? the torture could make all adventure possible.
If the threat was lightening ,
they might want rather lightening than the state .

Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 23:08 (GMT)
like lightning.
Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 22:28 (GMT)
Expert - so that was the nature of the threat, immediately dangerous/deadly but expected to go away soon.
Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 22:13 (GMT)
Expert - the point i made there - "they had to flee without time to grab clothing but they were waiting by the cedar for the chance to return to the tent."

Suggests that they had to immediately leave but they expected to be able to return shortly.
Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 21:25 (GMT)
Expert - the plan was that the night on the mountain was the start of a circular hike for about three days, returning to the same place. So they left approx 50kg of supplies of mainly food for the return journey afterwards in a cache near the river. I originally thought that when they left the tent they had intended to return to this store and had gone to the cedar in error. But on further reflection i think they chose the cedar on purpose. The cache was just food and very little clothing so no reason to go there.
It's a fascinating problem, they had to flee without time to grab clothing but they were waiting by the cedar for the chance to return to the tent.
Expert 23-01-2017 19:51 (GMT)
Nigel / Slight Wear at less -25' for hours , which is really terrible torture.
I have a question , do you know ? : they had storage house near tent . what it looked like ? How far it was away from tent ?
Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 12:56 (GMT)
Expert - yes, what forced them to leave the tent AND prevented them from returning is the big question".
Expert 23-01-2017 11:52 (GMT)
Today, I experienced -16'C . I was sure again the force of Dyatlov pass caused terrible fear.
Nigel Evans 21-01-2017 21:53 (GMT)
Expert - i'm not saying that i know how it happened, just that lightning in those forms can explain the facts.
Nigel Evans 21-01-2017 12:04 (GMT)
Expert - the central question is not "why did they flee the tent?".
but
"why did they flee the tent and then light a fire 1500 metres away but still unable to return to the tent although suffering from frostbite in -20C?".

There aren't lot of possibilities to answer this :-
1. Prisoners - but no sign of attackers.
2. Madness or intoxication - but clear signs of orderly organising the fire and the den.
3. Animals or Yetis - you don't light a fire.
4. Aliens - you don't light a fire.
5. Natural phenomena like lightning or ball lightning - the slits strongly suggest that they were watching something. The hot spot suggests a heat source, lightning or ball lightning would fit.
You can have cold lightning, synoptic snowstorms can produce it and the most dangerous type positive polarity. Lightning is produced by friction of atmospheric ice. By far the most common cause of this is warm moist air meeting cold air as in classic thunderstorms but it isn't the only cause and there may be causes that aren't properly understood as suggested in the paper i posted below. An explosion, heat and electrocution explain all the facts of the dpi case other than radiation which i assume to be from contamination with ground sources.
Nigel Evans 20-01-2017 23:45 (GMT)
Expert - there was the "hot spot" at the tent, 4metres in diameter were the snow had melted and refrozen. That and the tent slits favour BL.
Me:) 20-01-2017 21:53 (GMT)
I think the lights and the cracking sound were what killed them. It could account for the injuries they received,like the eyes and tongue gone. It sounds like it was some kind of nuclear explosions in the sky. IDK. I can only guess.
Asrın Sırrı 20-01-2017 21:05 (GMT)
@ Expert, yeah me too.

No new theories ?
Nigel Evans 20-01-2017 20:52 (GMT)
Expert - BL at the tent , BL or lightning can explain the cedar and ravine. The tent slits heavily lean to BL at the tent. It's probable that the cedar and ravine are a single lightning strike.
Nigel Evans 20-01-2017 11:25 (GMT)
Expert - hi, nice to see you back Happy

Whether alien visitation is real or not i don't see a connection with the dpi.

The two events (cedar and ravine) could have been due to a single lightning strike, see - https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=multiple+lightning+strikes&view=detailv2&&id=F2A9BCAC986B61E87315FDAB7D1DF520DC019B61&selectedIndex=16&ccid=iqmaSbU0&simid=608052041959866622&thid=OIP.M8aa99a49b534f0f9712ba5aa7cf28fe1o0&ajaxhist=0 or google "multiple lightning strikes"

i.e. the primary path was in the ravine and a secondary path hit two people at the cedar attracted by the stream of ionised particles rising from the fire.

The den in the ravine had seats made out of branches but interestingly there were only four. Presumably for the four that died there. So this infers that the group split into two probably due to dissatisfaction with ID's leadership.

For me what's interesting about the missing eyes and tongue is the overlap with "mammalian mutulations". I'm coming to the view that these are due to some form of lightning strike that isn't understood yet. The brazil case has good indicators of a lightning strike. No clothes, serious burns.
Admin 20-01-2017 10:02 (GMT)
To allow corrections of typos we will have to impose registration. I can not correct but I can delete entries of spammers.
If you want to correct something please make another entry with the correct spelling and send me an email to info(at)dyatlov-pass.com to delete the wrong entry.
Expert 20-01-2017 09:58 (GMT)
My Opinion is .. I think We must not discount all incident related to aliens visiting.

and about Ball lightening Nigel insist

1) it is unlikely
the objects were divided into ''first explosion object and second explosion object''
(that sound like they were alive)

2) the object damaged cedar tree ?
if so, The cedar tree must be damaged by explosion as well as burnt trace.

3) Ball Lightening is not proper to explain the injuries - removed tongue or eye balls .
(any predators don't eat other animals like the way)
Expert 20-01-2017 09:57 (GMT)
I know some cases about sky hovering balls from global incident.
there were many witnesses that was related to alien crafts .
Except for foreign countries case, I will say the only incidents that happened in Our country.

3 pilots in South Korea chased hovering skyballs in past time (about 60years before)
one of them said
" I don't think that was a secret weapon made in different country . Because That was too high technology to be made by human .......
that disappeared instantly at tremendous speed when we chased it. "

another case is testified by a old monk on TV
she lived in deep mountain
Oneday, she felt extraordinary at night time ..

Q) Why did you feel extraordinary then ?
A) I reared some animals but the animals started to cry and there was very bright light from door.
Q) What did you see ?
A) Yes, there were red light balls over my yard .
Q) What did you think of the sky balls ??
A) Earlier , I just have no idea on that. but now, I think they were aliens from outer space. I was just scared by them.
Q) Did you see lives in craft ?
A) Yes
Q) How ?
A) Lives came out of the craft through a light. Not stair.
Q) Couldn't they humans ??
A) they weren't human and they did not use any language to communicate with me.
but I could got it . even I can write it on paper using only number 1 and 2 .

She said this "they were kind beings to me, I hope to meet them again. "
So I wanted to build this landing site .


this sites were made by her proposal
(and it is known some ones helped her)

http://pds13.egloos.com/pds/200901/16/60/a0106360_497048126fe7f.jpg
Asrın Sırrı 18-01-2017 02:18 (GMT)
Yes @Nigel.

I believe in lightning theory right now.
Nigel Evans 18-01-2017 00:01 (GMT)
asrin - it's an alternative possibilty to the avalanche theory that's all.
But i think the lightning theory is much better.

I
Asrın Sırrı 17-01-2017 22:54 (GMT)
@Nigel, What did you mean ? This snow roller is related to hikers ?
Nigel Evans 17-01-2017 11:51 (GMT)
Something i haven't seen discussed before wrt leaving the tent is snow rollers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_roller
Asrın Sırrı 16-01-2017 15:59 (GMT)
Thanks @Nigel.
The image that is related to Yeti is a picture that discovery channel appeared recently.
That's why I do not think it's for me to for yeti's.
@Random: This event could be a lightning bolt, a lightning bolt, a biological weapon. There is doubt about the oldest member of the group.

Finally: I guess this event is exactly what we will never know.

What were the other members of the group writing on their cameras and diaries? Maybe they will explain everything. Only Allah knows.
Nigel Evans 16-01-2017 15:27 (GMT)
asrin - i don't know if it's real Happy.

It's frame no17 from NTB's camera. It has spawned the yeti theory but as the author of this site points out there are tracks between the camera and the figure, probably one of the party went to the toilet and NTB took a photo as a joke. Pity he didn't get a better focus to silence the yeti theorists....
Random 16-01-2017 14:19 (GMT)
I posted a comment about it being a biological attack and it was deleted. A biological parasite from the oldest member of the group, (as the bodies closest to him had extensive injuries) who had a mysterious past for his time and unknown reasons for being a nomad traveling with college students. This is hypothesis that no one mentions in any publications and should be considered. Most feel the military was testing a nuclear weapon when it may have been biological.
Asrın Sırrı 16-01-2017 14:11 (GMT)
@Nigel, this photo is real ?

Thibeaux-Brignolles camera :

http://dyatlov-pass.com/camera-thibeaux-brignolles http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Thibeaux-Brignolles-camera-film3-17.jpg
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 21:09 (GMT)
asrin - SZ was attempting to write in his diary so presumably he had eyes at that point Happy.

So SZ and LD eyes are easily explained as predation or freeze/thaw or water erosion or a combination post mortem.

LD swallowed blood before dying so clearly the tongue was injured before or at the fatal event. Best guess is that the blast wave made her bite it badly and that attracted predation.
A wilder theory is that our science knows that lightning produces antimatter which immediately annihilates with normal matter. So it's theoretically possible perhaps that the vacuum phase of the explosion made her draw antimatter across her face and into her mouth. N.B. that there's an overlap in this injury with cattle mutilation and the "human mutilation brazil" case. So i'm just guessing that one day science will find a connection. But probably beyond our lifetimes. But these cases resonate empirically.
Asrın Sırrı 15-01-2017 19:45 (GMT)
@NigelEvans
Thanks for all the information.
The result: the lightning that killed the Dyatlov climbers.
So, lost tongue, missing eyeballs, what is the explanation for this? Thanks, Nigel.
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 18:02 (GMT)
Another explanation for the hot spot outside the tent is that is was perhaps where a conventional lighning bolt hit the earth. Only this wasn't focused by a stream or an irrigation pipe and hence didn't create a crater, just an area 4 metres in diameter of melted snow that the wind formed into ridges as it re froze.
But not only would the bolt be incredibly bright but it would probably collapse the tent.
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 17:45 (GMT)
asrin - for your information :-

http://www.lightning.ece.ufl.edu/PDF/Rakov_2003.pdf SUMMARY.
Our knowledge of the physics of posi-
tive lightning remains much poorer than that of nega-
tive lightning. Many questions regarding the genesis
of positive lightning and its properties cannot be an-
swered without further research. It is worth noting
that attempts to initiate positive lightning using the
rocket-and-wire technique generally result in dis-
charges that are composed of the initial stage (rela-
tively low-level, long-lasting current component) that
is not followed by positive leader/return-stroke se-
quences. Bipolar lightning is an even less understood
and often unrecognized phenomenon. While some
simple cloud charge distributions, such as a “tilted
dipole,” an “inverted dipole,” or a “positive mono-
pole,” can apparently explain the generation of posi-
tive lightning, the occurrence of bipolar lightning, as
well as complex cloud discharges, suggests that the
cloud charge structure cannot always be described by
simple, vertically stacked charge models. It is likely
that positively and negatively charged regions can
exist at about the same height in the cloud.
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 15:52 (GMT)
asrin - also a feature of thunder snow is that the falling snow intensifies the lightning flash and muffles the thunder so it cn be inaudible beyond two miles. So the slits could be due to them observing a fantastic but silent light show...
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 15:46 (GMT)
asrin - well i'm not a meteorological expert but the internet tells me that lightning is due to the build up of voltage due to collisions of ice particles within a cloud and the typical cause of this is hot moist air rising vertically in a thunderstorm. This means that lightning is very rare at the poles and most frequent in the tropics.
But it would be my strong guess that the mixing of ice (and snow?) particles can also have other causes. Just because these causes are rare doesn't make them impossible. E.g. freak wind circulation, downward flow of the jet stream, anomalous electrical ground conditions repelling the air vertically (the region clearly exhibits freak frequency of ball lightning and strong magnetic anomalies).

N.B. my "dpi - lightning theory" can be satisfied by either conventional lightning or ball lightning or a combination of both. Also don't forget that our physics cannot explain ball lightning at all, and there maybe unknown causes of conventional lightning waiting to be found. Dark lightning has only been recently discovered...

I'm currently reading "Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secrets" which i can recommend. For me it's a no brainer that the cedar tree and ravine deaths can be most easily explained by electrical discharge at the cedar and an explosion in the ravine. This gives you - burnt hair, burnt clothing, massive leg burn, scattered fragments of burnt clothing, shockwave injuries, serious skull trauma without tissue damage (chunks of flying ice softening in the heat flash and landing on head in snow), heavy bruising, four bodies found in a tight group 6-10 metres from their den.

Everything i read is a fit, except for perhaps the radiation. This would be explained as a red herring, that the contamination was picked up from one of the disused mines that they explored or naturally occurring on the ground. Strontum, trituim etc.

A reminder of a notable fact from the book. SZ was found still holding a diary in one hand and a pencil in the other (this strongly suggests that he didn't travel in the stream later and that the curious clumping was there at the fatal event). Lying there with the extreme pain of a flail chest he was still trying to leave a record of the event for people to find. A professional agent to the very end?
Asrın Sırrı 15-01-2017 06:52 (GMT)
@NigelEvans
I read in a forum, there are those who say that there can not be a lightning event.


The temperature was -30C (-22F), which is much too cold to allow for any generation of atmospheric lightning. Not sure what happen there, but lightning would have been simply impossible. Yes, lightning can happen during some snowstorms, but in these cases the temperatures are much warmer and near the freezing mark (0C, 32F). This makes a huge difference since convection of ice particles that freeze and melt during the convection cycle is critical for generating the charge.
just_me 14-01-2017 16:41 (GMT)
Obviously they were inside tent when heard something that made them so scared and runaway in panic.

Well, why don't someone put some microphone on that location and record for 1 full year or more ... maybe got something to hear
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 19:15 (GMT)
asrin - i've thought of an extra refinement to the theory.

In the ravine after the explosion. The strike creates a lot of water vapour as this powerful bolt - 50,000C, 1 million amps, earths down the stream this hot vapour rises until it refreezes. Also the explosion sends a lot of nearby snow (ground and trees) into the air with the wind blowing a lot of it into the ravine, plus snow on the side of ravine slides down.
So four people are buried in snow with three survivors. ID now has a dilemma. RS is clearly injured and needs care. But he doesn't know if the buried four are dead or alive. So as the leader of the group he decides that ZK should accompany RS back to the tent whilst he stays in the ravine hoping for signs of life. It will be part of his training to know that buried under snow you can breathe for approx 30 minutes before the snow near your mouth reaches a concentration of CO2 that kills you. So he sends them back and waits perhaps listening or attempting to dig with his hands. So ZK helps RS back to the tent but the path is uphill in deep snow and very tough. Along the way RS collapses. Being a girl she can't lift or drag him and she is getting weak from cold and the explosion. So she decides to leave him there and if she can get to the tent she could bring warm clothing down to help him. But she succumbs to the cold and conditions (high winds?) 200 metres further uphill. Meanwhile ID decides to abandon his search as he is getting very cold. It's a feature of hypothermia that one of the first stages is mental confusion. So perhaps as good leader he stays too long. Anyway he doesn't get far before the hypothermia overtakes him and he is found displaying classic signs of death by hypothermia, paradoxical undressing and a litre of urine.

May they rest in peace.

Asrın Sırrı 12-01-2017 17:41 (GMT)
I think it is strange that they want to take each other's clothes even after the lightning falls on them.
They would probably be hot, they would get warm, they would be cooked, why they took each other's clothes and put on themselves ...
Ludymilla's tongue broke off from the lightning bolt.
You also have the opportunity to make an animation of this theory, thanksgiving, thanks @Nigel Evans.
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 17:03 (GMT)
asrin - i think the best explanation for leaving the tent is ball lightning, it would seem that there were two people outside well dressed for the cold and seven people inside the tent and there are at least seven slits at standing height in the tent. So all the people in the tent cut an individual slit to observe something. This fact combined with the hot spot strongly favours ball lightning and not a lightning strike. Either the proximty of the BL caused them to flee the tent or a lightning strike hit the bamboo tent pole or both. But the event has to prevent them from returning to collect boots and clothing so BL hovering over the hot spot fits best.

The the two yuris are killed by a weak lightning strike like this - http://www.walterreeves.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/lightning-3.jpg only in this case the tree trunk is covered in snow and the strike travels outside the bark only damaging the branches. The 2 yuri's are huddled together by the fire, the strike enters YD's head on the right side burning his hair and causing profuse bleeding to the ears, nose and lips. The current crosses over to YK and exits the left leg resulting in a massive edema (31cm).

Then all seven realise that the fire under a tree is unwise and they retreat to the ravine probably on the advice of SZ as this was a WW2 technique to survive the extreme cold. However they haven't realised that if lightning is a threat then the water in the stream is very dangerous as it provides the best earth for more lightning strikes. The strike that kills the four outright is much more powerful than the first one, like this - http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2011/8/22/this-is-what-it-looks-like-when-lightning-strikes.html n.b. that strike blew a hole three foot deep to find the earth provided by the irrigation line...
This strike doesn't hit any individual but results in a powerful explosion as it instantly vapourises snow, ice, mud etc, paticularly so in the confines of the ravine which amplifies the shockwave. Note in that image that the hole is small relative to the area of grass that is killed. So it fits that most of the "ravine 7" got a good dose of heat changing the colour of their skin as they were blown through the air. Four died and three survived but with injuries and shock.
They pick themselves up and decide to return to the tent. But the explosion has left them substantially weakened and disorientated and they do not make the logical decision to remove shoes and clothing from the deceased. This is possibly due the to heat melting a large area of snow up the sides of the ravine which slides down and covers all of them causing the three still alive to scramble out. Whatever this proves fatal as they return for ZK and ID, RS dies anyway collapsing whilst still warm.

I've no plans to make an animation. The text is sufficient for me.
Asrın Sırrı 12-01-2017 16:08 (GMT)
So the dpi event was due to lightning.
Lightning strikes in the tent, the mountaineers were troubled, somehow they decided to go to the woods, after which a strong lightning bolt killed them, and some died of hypothermia. is it true ? @ Nige Evans

@Nigel, can you make an animation video of this theory? Thank you.
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 15:27 (GMT)
asrin - no to the weapon theory, the Soviets wouldn't have invested that much effort in investigating the dpi if they already knew the cause.

As far as i know all the evidence can be explained by a combination of ball lightning (frequent occurence in that area - 2 events witnessed within 2 months of the dpi) and lightning strkes (thundersnow can produce the most powerful type - positive polarity).
Asrın Sırrı 12-01-2017 15:03 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : I think lightning is a natural lightning,
Or did the Russians make with Tesla's lightning weapon?
I hope you understand? The language problem is seriously bad! (:
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 12:40 (GMT)
Asrin - my theory is that ZK, RS and ID were with the ravine 4 when they were killed but further away from the blast.
ZK's official cause of death is - "hypothermia due to violent accident".
RS - i suggest that he collapsed from shock and his head injury.
ID - clearly died of hypothermia.

Regarding the ravine 4 :-
LD and SZ - flail chests due to shockwave from explosion.
AK - the explosion threw him backwards and he landed on his head, resulting in headwound and a deformed neck.
NTB - the blast threw a projectile that hit him in the head.
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 12:05 (GMT)
Asrin - I think most people would agree that the pathologist's report isn't rigourous enough (LD's tongue). As far as i know the injuries of YD and YK are consistent with them being electrocuted whilst sitting side by side the lightning entering YD's head and exiting via YK's left leg and foot.

The damage to the cedar tree supports the lightning theory. N.B. if the snowstorm was as photographed when they setup camp then they would have no reason to climb the tree as the visibilty would be very limited and they couldn't see the tent anyway.

From this website :-
the soft tissues of both hands and fingers tips are especially dark purple; all fingers and toes are severelly frostbitten. If Yuri Doroshenko would have survived, he would have required an amputation of all his toes and fingers.
Asrın Sırrı 11-01-2017 22:15 (GMT)
Hi.
@Nigel Evans : Do autopsy doctors not understand lightning strike?
Did you feel a lightning strike, Nigel?
Please ask to learn.

Maybe it's irrelevant, but I'm looking at it, zinaida is well dressed, but how does she get hypothermia and die? The subject still has not reached the solution and it has been about 60 years ...

There is also a detailed video on the scene in this video account, perfect.

The person who shoots the video is walking with the socks and there is no problem ...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkU_SsNR7iV2VzEaVSu3ccQ
Nigel Evans 11-01-2017 13:37 (GMT)
Thunder snow and positive lightning :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundersnow "Finally, there is a greater likelihood that thundersnow lightning will have a positive polarity which has greater destructive potential than negatively charged (typical) lightning"

http://wxbrad.com/positive-lightning-why-its-so-dangerous/ "While only 10% of lightning strikes victims die from being hit, most are hit by negative strikes. The percentage of positive strike fatalities is much higher."
Nigel Evans 09-01-2017 18:33 (GMT)
Asrin - assuming you meant "why did the mountaineers leave the tent?".

Anyone of the three could have spooked them but the cause has to continue to spook them to prevent them from returning afterwards.

So i guess that reduces the probability of a lightning strike in favour of st elmos fire or ball lightning. The 4metre hot spot in front of the tent favours ball lightning imo.

Then the two Yuris are killed by a normal lightning strike.

With the ravine 4 it's not possible to determine whether it's BL or a lightning strike. But either cause creates deaths by an explosion not electrocution. Apparently a LS can generate temperatures 5 times hotter than the surface of the sun. So if that hit the stream in the ravine the water would instantly vapourise creating quite a bang..

Asrın Sırrı 09-01-2017 17:31 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans

The result is lightning strike?
If you cause a lightning strike, will you explain it, why did the tent leave the mountaineers?
Can you give a detailed explanation @ Nigel, Please? Thank's.
Nigel Evans 09-01-2017 12:46 (GMT)
I've spent a little time researching how lightning strikes affect trees - http://www.cceoneida.com/home-and-garden/factsheets/view/76/lightning-injury-to-trees#.WHOBKtQwDaw Tall conifers near to flowing water would seem to be high risk!

Also the strike can have very different effects depending on whether the current travels outside the tree or within it. Wrt to the dpi it would be highly likely that the branches would be snow covered and the the strike would jump from branch to branch resulting in damaged branches but an intact trunk.
It fits that the fire would assist the strike giving off a stream of ionised particles. Then some or all of the discharge would jump from the tree and pass through the people sitting by the fire resulting in electrocution injuries (burns and pulmonary edema).

Being an intelligent group with scientific backgrounds they would realise with hindsight that the tree and the fire were a bad idea and retreat to the ravine but sadly there was another similar event but this time primarily explosive.

So a good explanation for all of the facts would be that the area exhibits static electricity anomalies that combined with the snowstorm encouraged - st elmo's fire/lightning strikes/ball lightning and a combination of these resulted in the dpi.
Nigel Evans 09-01-2017 11:21 (GMT)
Mr Woo - they didn't use the heater that night, so no case for CO.

asrin - excellent article, which closely follows my thinking (and that of Ivanov and the mansi). Provides a good explanation for all the facts.
Asrın Sırrı 09-01-2017 04:34 (GMT)
Another theory ;

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=271057
Mr. Woo 08-01-2017 11:48 (GMT)
Here is another theory. I will not overexplain. Carbon Monoxide poisioning. At least enough poisoning to cause confusion, hallucination, and possible violence. It would explain sudden fleeing from the tent, signs of trauma to the bodies, discolouration of skin, etc. As the autopsies were inconsistent and challenged by the time, weather, and the elements, it could mean that Soviet provincial science was not entirely up to snuff.
Asrın Sırrı 08-01-2017 03:16 (GMT)
Hello to everyone.
A researcher named Keith McCloskey writes on a website but I do not fully understand it.

Best scenario: -
The fact that they closed access for a few years is revealing.
Why,- because of radiation.
The incident happened elsewhere - somewhere on their proper route. That area had high radiation, due to military weapon / UFO.
So they moved the bodies somewhere away from the actual event to confuse things, as well as to protect any search people from high radiation? The pilot observed the tent with bodies, while the soldiers were relocating the group to the radiation free area.
Because of the radiation left on bodies/clothes of group, Lev Ivanov was informed to carry a radiation detector.
The fact there is a (damaged) pole at the tent also could be a mistake by the soldiers, or whoever was moving things around. Alternatively it could have been intentionally left by a soldier who was disgusted at what they were doing & who wished to leave a clue as to the lack of authenticity of the scene.
If it hadn't been for Yuri Yakimov revealing the light set events, I would have went with military. But that's too much of a coincidence to happen in this area also. It could be the Mansi reference to mountain has more meaning than we think, going back ages, it could be a sort of 'dimensional' gateway or at least an area where there is more than usual UFO activity. There seem to be certain areas where they are more prevalent. UNQUOTE
I thought about the noise made by explosions but the students who reported the lights on the Chistop Massif were 30 miles away and the wind was blowing away from them carrying the sound. The Mansi settlement at Ushma is closer but still several miles and again the wind is an issue. I also gain the impression that the Mansi were willing to help out but didn’t want to get drawn into any contentious issues. Especially as nine people were dead and the authorities may have been looking to point the finger at someone.
Nigel Evans 05-01-2017 19:08 (GMT)
Hi Asrin

Yes i'll add my comments to the other page.

It's no problem for me if google translate makes communication clumsy. Good ideas are not limited to people who can write in English Happy.

2. the fire is estimated to have burnt for 1.5 hours through 8 cm logs. It seems it was a good campfire. Not an ineffective one as claimed in the youtube video.
5. two members of the group were outside keeping watch. If so it couldn't have been that cold.

But we will have to agree to disagree on the main point of this theory that they would elect to leave food, equipment and clothing (wet clothing is much preferable to less clothing in -20C), and especially their boots, just to go and light a fire in a more sheltered place.
The main question with the dpi mystery is what made them leave everything behind?
Asrın Sırrı 05-01-2017 17:39 (GMT)
Hello, everybody.
I am doing this article with google translation help.
@Nigel Evans You can write your comments on the person who prepared the video (Goruna X) as a comment.
If you have animated dyatlov pass videos, would you like to link here?
I want to look at all of them.

@Nigel Evans: I want to answer your questions.

1) I think after setting the tent, they realized that there was no firewood in the tent and they walked to the forest together, 4 people went to the forest before, they lost their direction and they were wounded.
Others tried to warm up by the fire at the entrance to the forest. The cold influenced the mountaineers' thoughts negatively.

2) I could not understand what you said, sorry. (Google translate inefficiency)

3) I think it was going to go back to the tent by collecting dry wood, and they do not take their clothes to their side and not to be burdened.
But it started to show no effect on the road.

4) This is your opinion, socks can be very strong, wool socks.
As a result they may have made an incorrect decision.

5) I could not understand what you said, sorry. (Google translate inefficiency)

6) The fractures were probably after river side injuries.

As a result, I think this theory tells a big part of the story, but maybe not the whole story.
I write the conversations with google translate, sorry.
Nigel Evans 05-01-2017 11:52 (GMT)
Asrim Sirri - thanks, that's a new theory i haven't come across before.

Thoughts :-
1. if it was an orderly retreat from the tent due to cold and wet then why didn't they take their three axes and food and some alcohol Happy?
2. the fire was relatively successful burning branches upto 8cm thick (estimated at 1.5 hours duration).
3. if the clothing was too wet to wear why not take it with them to dry by the fire?
4. i find it impossible to believe that they prefered walking in socks in say -20C instead of putting their wet boots on. These are intelligent people with alpine training.
5. the indications are that two members of the group were outside keeping watch. If so it couldn't have been that cold.
6. the pathologist is very specific about the cause of the fractures - high energy trauma "like from a car accident or the shockwave from a bomb". No broken limbs, collar bones etc but flail chests where the rib cage has been partly snapped vertically three times? I don't see how a collapsed snow cave could create this profile of injuries.
S.J.M. 05-01-2017 08:15 (GMT)
Better translation ;-) .......

I turn just following theory to the Dyatlov to discusion:

The disaster happened in two parts, without any foreign influence:

The first part was a drug experiment of the five members (Rustem Slobodin, Yuri Doroshenko, Yuri Krivonischenko, Igor Dyatlov and Zinaida Kolmogorova) at the edge of the forest under the pine tree.
Possibly, with the help of psychedelic substances, a "shamanistic" experience at the campfire would be made.
This was either done with the help of regional mushrooms or LSD-derivatives, which may have been brought along, as well. (I do not know whether gastric contents or blood were examined 1959 ?!)
In both cases there was probably a certain contamination and/or overdosing in the game,
Which, in addition to the horrortrip, also leads to an accelerated cooling (by a centralization shock, possibly in combination with the "paradoxical undressing"Winking, and would, by the way, explain the orbicular discolouration of the skin of the victims of death, namely by icterus in liver failure.
In addition, in this type trip often flight-fantasies occur, which would clarify the climbing of the tree.
I also can not exclude a conscious undressing to intensify the "natural experience".
Also not untypical would be the search for the little melting creek for the purpose of "purification" or thirst quenching or the desire to neutralize in case of poisoning-phenomena.

Part two: When the first group suddenly realized that there was something extraordinary going on the way, Dyatlov, Kolmogorova and Slobodin wanted to reach the (possibly nothing anticipating or sleeping) rest of the group (Lyudmila Dubinina, Alexander Kolevatov, Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolles and Semyon Zolotaryov).

These, who were taken aback by the sleep very surprised and panicked, as someone was screaming or was busy at the entrance of the tent (possibly blocked by snow drift too),
now fled down to the edge of the forest by slitting the side tent, where they found the other members of the "drug group" were probably in a corresponding condition.

This led either to further panic-like flight or uncontrolled searches for some aid in the direction of forest natures, downhill.
They crashed into the snowy canyon with corresponding crash injuries such as fractures and tongue bites.
Eyes by two members in my opinion were lost postmortal by animals or putrescence.(Zolotaryov and Dubinina were found over 2 months after accident !)

Whether the drug experiment was planned from the beginning, or even "sponsored" by some circles or even commanded, or simply developed on a whim, remains speculative of course.
The only surviving member, the tour-departed Yuri Judin has probably never said (?).

The framework conditions were, in my opinion, fit in any case;
9 young adventurous, experience-seeking students at a time of emerging "mind-expending" substances in a solitary, mystical area..........

S.J.M.
AsrinSirri 04-01-2017 23:08 (GMT)
To me this seems to be the most simple and logical explanation to the mystery.

Best Theory...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbIqsK8KG-E
Nigel Evans 03-01-2017 15:42 (GMT)
SJM - you should read Svetlana Oss's book "Don't go there", she has a murder theory that involves hallucinogenic substances.
N.B. the pathologist ruled out falling as a cause of the fractures, and as the photos show these serious injuries have no surface tissue damage. An explosion is the best explanation.
S.J.M. 03-01-2017 14:23 (GMT)
psychedelic drugs, what else ?
bad experiment.
leslie 03-01-2017 09:53 (GMT)
I am very curious about the youtube videos that expert posted, when hikers returned to the site of the tent amd the ravine. Would anyone be willing to offer a translation, at least of the highlights? what is the significance of the flags? at what point in the video are they in the ravine, and do they show the cedar tree in any of the videos? the den? hoping someone can shed light on this.
peter 01-01-2017 09:53 (GMT)
I think ti got it right back on 17-5-2016. It was not an avalanche but fear of an avalanche coupled with snow drifts that forced them to exit the tent.

I am not sure but the thought of 9 or 10 people being covered with tons of snow in a collapsed tent could be a compelling reason to exit immediately
Nigel Evans 24-12-2016 13:18 (GMT)
Bird - the tent is described as 2, 4 men tents sown together.
You make a good point regarding the size of the tent but my guess is that :-
a. modern materials permit much more tent room than in 1959, so the space was limited to the weight.
b. the siberian winter nights are long and would allow enough time for two groups to rotate usage. It would have been wise to keep a watch for wild animals (wolves) so i could imagine that they have at least two men outside overnight probably with a fire. Indeed the footsteps in the snow suggest that was the case when they fled the tent (but no fire).

I think they were on the open ground beyond the trees to gain height for the following day. From memory their plan was to execute a three day circular hike returning to the base camp where they had left the food for the return journey. So the purpose of the camp that night was to achieve the altitude in order to make good distance the following day.
Bird 24-12-2016 12:16 (GMT)
Hello all. I'm from Central Europe and am interested in palaeontology, archeology, paleontology and unexplained mysteries. Thanks also to the creators behind this perfect site where absolutely everything about the expedition, including photographs. I also thought long on this mystery, until I saw the direction of detail where this man pulls. I would like to describe their observations as the other thing, and I deal with enough forensically to the smallest detail. It is unnecessary to elaborate on his theories here and entertain the detalily, because the main thing was before my eyes and not see it at first, then? That must see for anyone that 9 people (10 people) in the tent 4M X 1.8M nobody can come in during the entire journey expedition. Stan odhahuji to max. 3 persons and if we add backpacks and stuff, so they fit into the tent, perhaps none. Also, this way I miss the photographs. Where to sleep? Hm? Until resolved the question of how the tent 4 x 1.8 meters next to 9 people with backpacks, even things that were allegedly found in a tent, we can continue.

So the main question for me remains the size of the tent.

Nowhere in the photos is not seeing them spend the night and eating. Supposedly, they were experienced mountaineers. If I was a dress code for the disco (Dubinina) so I froze way. At least 10 days' journey in the mountains of Siberia, have too small backpacks. Most of the contents of a sleeping bag and mat and spare stuff. Where is the food for 10 people for 10 days? Tube tent to me is exhausting moisture, as would the tent is frozen and probably even suffocated. I have many theories, but one of radioactivity into contact just come and Kovalov employee was allegedly nuclear research. I believed in a version of infrasound, but it unfortunately falls, because they do not know how 9 people with backpacks, fits into the tent 4x1,8 meters. It is impossible. 6x4 meters ideal for 9 (10) persons.

So there is a version with transfer of radioactive material in the tent and never slept, because there will not fit. So where to sleep? How much did the dishes? Experienced mountaineer knows the counting and would have stayed down in the woods, or went behind the ridge. Pitch a tent there on top is illogical. The tent is obviously old and patched and most importantly is installed between the trees. Up there he fell on them. They would have to build a wall of snow and skis anchor the tent. Maybe the tent fell on them at night in a mad wind, but it applies to someone explain to me and understand that I never found that nobody cares how could fit 10 people into the tent 4 x 1.8 meters and with backpacks,.

Maybe we can not understand, because it never happened. Please views on the size of the tent vs 10 people.

I would also like to add: Bigfoot does not exist. He yeti wearing dark pants, a light jacket and dark gloves? (This is seen in the photo) Does your neck? Of course, it is a member of the expedition and a hooded and therefore has no neck. If the text is found in the tent that Bigfoot exists, it could be evidence of fraud or message to someone that their actions came out to surrender. Further, I also do not understand how they can film in cameras in 1959, survive in Siberia in the cold under the snow and to be quite ok.

The main question remains: how to fit 10 people into the tent and backpacks, with pipe measuring 4 x 1.8 m. This also applies to the previous stations down in forests. It's good to see the size and age of the tent and the people around him. Such tents would need 3 and not 1

Why someone is in deep winter on Siberian mountain in the middle of winter? Why not go in the summer when they were tourists? Sea issues, but without explaining how they went into the tent, not worth continuing. In addition to the mountain appoint Mountain of the Dead just for fun. It has a reason. Maybe there Mansové bury the dead, and they disrupted their cemeteries. That mark on the tree clearly indicates that it is their territory. Maybe they did, or shaman actually a story with Yetti invented to make people afraid to go there. Whole Mansovy understand. They want to have peace.
Nigel Evans 21-12-2016 17:31 (GMT)
luk- the stove was found dismantled, it wasn't used that evening.
Patrick 21-12-2016 04:52 (GMT)
The tent, as shown, is in the wrong spot. It should be shown over the next ridge to the north; which means the valley where the bodies were found is also over the ridge to the northwest.
Patrick 21-12-2016 04:47 (GMT)
The tent in you map should be over the ridge to the north of where it is currently shown.
luk 20-12-2016 22:09 (GMT)
Hello, what about the stove theory? I mean that the stove either exploded or the smoke was suffocating them
Nigel Evans 17-12-2016 12:38 (GMT)
someguy - hi

1. "Snowmen exist" - probably part of the folkore that springs up. E.g. the mansi give a hill the name "Dead Mountain" meaning there's nothing up there to hunt and this get converted into "Mountain of the Dead".

2. Parachute mines - this could explain a lot of the facts but evidence would be left (parachutes?) and Ivanov would not have given an interview later in life were he admitted his belief that it was the fireballs and facts directly supporting this were removed from the report.

3. Radiation - in the dim light of the morgue the staff reported that parts of the clothing had a purple glow. One theory is that they had visited abandoned mines on the trip and contaminated their clothing there. However that would presumably have resulted in alpha radiation not the beta that was found. Also a water test suggested that the original contamination could have been much higher.

4. Knives - the knive used to exit the tent and collect firewood was never found. They left hand axes in the tent.

5. Den - they didn't dig it. They just arranged branches in the floor of the ravine to shelter from the wind. There are indications of very high winds.

6. Don't think the body is relevant to the dpi.

7. There was another hiking group in the area a week later that witnessed "a light in the sky". Igor Dyatlov was training to be an alpine master and the leading the hike would raise his ranking. So not so unusual perhaps, permission had to be sought for the trip and a one member was refused and SZ substituted for him.
someguy 16-12-2016 18:10 (GMT)
6 hours reading about this mystery - quite intriguing! Thanks for the site.

I visited a few sites to try and get a view from all angles and theories. This site is nice since you can see the photos and medical information, plus the diary excepts is interesting.

1. "Snowmen exist" is mentioned elsewhere on the Internet but is not found in the English translation of the diary on this site. Several articles include the quote but the translation on this site makes me think this quote is false/fake. There is nothing in the diary translation that would hint at "snowmen exist" either. Could the author of the site confirm this on the diary page for future visitors?

2. Wikipedia (not a useful source, I know) has an interesting theory of parachute mines but this site doesn't mention it. Unfortunately there is no source cited on wikipedia for the parachute mine theory, but it is interesting none the less. It is mentioned that there was metal debris around the tent but nothing specific as to what kind of metal (size, shape) and if the metal could've belong to the hikers.

3. Speculation: The radiation on the shirt/pants seems like they were trying to use the lamp (as noted elsewhere the lamp had radiation elements within it) to keep themselves warm. The radiation reports indicate lower shirt/wrist / upper pants/waist, so perhaps the lamp was being kept near the waist or cuddled around?

4. I was curious as to the amount of cut marks in the tent photos. It looks as if multiple people were trying to cut the side of the tent. Was there any evidence found indicating what cutting tools were used? I believe it was said one person had a knife on their belt/carabiner. Were any of the cutting tools found outside of the tent or not on a person (like the flashlight)?

5. Was there any indication of tools used to dig out the "den"? Did they dig it out with their hands?

6. There was a report released by RT in January 2016 about a new body being discovered near the pass. After some research, it may be a hermit / homeless person that lived in a nearby town, however there is little information about him. It would be interesting to know when he died (if it was recent or closer to the death of the hikers) and why he was in that area to begin with.

7. Something that is curious to me is if this was a typical hike for people in the area? How many hikers in that era would've made the hike to the mountain each year? This information could give a "sample size" to show how many people hike in that location (ie. many = this incident is unique; few = this incident is stranger), or another sample is has this happened elsewhere in the world (ie. people suffering similar deaths while hiking in the winter). At least such data would give a reference point to better evaluate how strange this event was (typical or not).
RK 14-12-2016 07:03 (GMT)
An additional thing I have to say: this page is very great! Thank you for the work and the amount of useful and clear informations!
RK 13-12-2016 15:28 (GMT)
Sorry, but I find it is not to believe how many strange ideas should be responsible for this incident.
However, I was a soldier, have medical experiences and educations in technology and radiology. I read many about this case and like everybody seem this case almost to solve, but nevertheless does not fit. Always close, but then there is another argument. Traces, radiology, injuries, some behavior of the members is right, some not. Which investigations are right? Which doubtful?
When somebody sees any lights in the sky and hear about radiology in combination with a strange incident we have immediately extraterrestrial, military or strange nature items in our heads. But in almost every strange case which has solved it was…surprise…the people for themselves.
The investigations are insufficient. Some examples. Radiology on clothes at this time is not unusual. In this time were some x-ray exams made with clothes. Some clothes were produced with radiology-included colors. The investigation of the traces is absolutely unbelievable. What was the real cause of death of the members especially the ravine group. Three of them had the most injuries (pressure-injuries) and they were under 4 meters of snow? They were lying in a creek month of melting snow-waters. The branches of the cedar were cut in the direction of the tent. If I want climb on a tree to look in a direction I cut the branches on the other side (example: slobodin’s picture frame nr.5). I want escape from a tent and nobody try to pull the buttoned entrance, everybody search first for the knife to destroy the only habitation that would save my life (and if just later)? And why this extrem big hole? In a case of emergency with 7 or 9 people the most would use the hole of the precursor. It would be faster. And then I go without rush to the woods? The cuts in eye-level are in the escape-direction? I would flee off the danger.
What is right what is wrong?
The first question I have: If I were in a tent with 7 or 9 people, what have to happened to rip the tent in this big size of one side?
Right, it could be an emergency incident. Maybe a defective oven. Maybe a threat from outside.
The next question should to be: was the tent already collapsed and is this maybe the reason for the big hole? In a collapsed tent it is hard to find the exit, it is dark, I am afraid, there is a threat inside or outside…a good reason for all members to destroy the tent in the length. But the cuts are straight from to bottom, sign for a not collapsed tent.
Several members cut a intact tent at the same time in one direction and all stroll without rush in the forest the most without sufficient clothes. Why? There are only two reasons:
The danger is absolute directly or there were forced.
And here the hamster begins to hobble:
2 theories, 2 ways:

Way one:
If the danger is directly why they went without rush to the woods?
Is the danger only in the range of the tent and they could not went back?
Which kind of danger could that be?


Way two:
If there were forced why did they destroy the tent?
Were they forced to destroy the tent too?
And why did they destroy it from the inside?
Was the danger from the inside?
Was the danger a member of the group or another person?

If I combine the Theories:
Was the threat a member of the group or another person, forced them to destroy the tent or did his himself and hound the others away or in the direction of the forest? Maybe in rage and regardless the lack of clothes?

Is this a start of a fight first for clothes then for survive?

I think it is important to find out what is happened in the tent. At the photos we see a good mood and atmosphere until the last day. The last day the weather was badly and they had to put up the tent in deep snow and a slope. Maybe the atmosphere had turned.

If I leave out all the doubtful results of the investigations I see 9 young people, 7 male, 2 female, well trained for this trip, but in some faces not complete seriousness. I see a lot of fun. I see a lot of young power. I see many injuries of fight with hands. I believe to see an incredible tragedy caused of emotions of young people.
Nigel Evans 11-12-2016 15:01 (GMT)
Expert - sorry i don't understand the first line.

I don't think you've properly understood what the pathologist is saying. The strength and transient nature of the force rules out many other causes. The easiest explanation is barotrauma from an explosion. LD's rib cage was cracked twice in the upper right hand side but not cracked in the lower half at all. Do you understand what sort of force is strong enough to start cracking the ribs twice but not for long enough to reach the lower half? It was strong, local and highly transient. You can't reproduce this with a rifle butt or stamping etc etc. Plus there was no tissue damage anyway.

Here's your link Happy
http://dyatlov-pass.com/theories Scroll down to UFO.
Expert 11-12-2016 14:19 (GMT)
I contradict you repeatedly on timelapse of your opinion . You couldn't have answered properly about the question. (the question point of me is that the incident didnot happened by natural force )

but you still keep insisting

the pathologist was comparing only the power to car crash or bomb but which did not mean they died of car crash or bomb

and Ivanov did not say the ball was ball lightening phenomenon. give me link

Nigel Evans 11-12-2016 12:57 (GMT)
Robs - i thnk i've discussed the injuries at length to justify the BL theory?

To repeat my case :-

The pathologist stated that the flail chests required very specific forces such as in a car accident or (and this is the crucial point) "like from the shockwave of a bomb". N.B. he ruled out falling. So this and the unusual number of dead birds points strongly at an explosion.

Then you have eye witness reports a week later of a light in the sky followed by two explosions.

Other evidence is burnt tree tops, burnt people, local beliefs, radioactivity, skin colour possibly due to radiation.

All of this fits with historical accounts of ball lightning wth the exception of radiation.

So it's no brainer really. That's why Ivanov had to choose it.
Robs 11-12-2016 10:58 (GMT)
Yes I get that Nigel but how do you explain the injuries. Plus the photo of the scene before and after shows no evidence of an avalanche or massive high winds etc as the tent and surroundings (like the ski still upright) remains untouched
Nigel Evans 11-12-2016 10:50 (GMT)
Expert/Robs - I think we can remove alien contact as a theory for the DPI. The fact that they fled the tent but built a fire nearby whilst still unable to return to the tent is a strong tool for removing possible causes. Either they were prisoners or it was a natural force that they had no reason to fear 1500m away. Imo the prisoner theory doesn't work. Force them to leave the tent undressed but let them build a fire and a den? Much better is that they had to flee the tent from a threat and were waiting to return from a location they believed to be safe. But they misjudged the threat and it's potential to kill.
Expert 11-12-2016 09:11 (GMT)
Nigel
Expert 11-12-2016 09:09 (GMT)
Neigel /
Even the gap between australopitecus and modern human is calculated only about 3 millions years . (argon date)
the number is a little in the universe. There are tremendous amount of star systems billions ahead of ours ..

but I agree with your opinion.
when we solve unexplained phenomenon
the first is to consider the result from inner space
the last is to consider the result from outer space
that is right way to solve it.

Robs 10-12-2016 16:16 (GMT)
I agree with Nigel on the UFO theory. There is no proof and you can blame UFOs for any mystery in history.
Nigel Evans 10-12-2016 14:42 (GMT)
Expert - i've got a degree in physics and i'm sure that if aliens are visiting us they will view our science like we look at our stone age.
However my problem with reports of alien contact is the lack of evidence unless the conspiracy theories are to be believed (global government cover-up).
Hence I favour natural phenomena that science cannot as yet explain, together with hallucination, the latter possibly a result of the former...
Expert 10-12-2016 12:26 (GMT)
Apart from what beings they are .. every visitors (from no this planet) must overwhelm human science . because human physics for universe travelling is limited in relative theory-Einstein
Expert 09-12-2016 22:43 (GMT)
There are many witnesses relative to aliens. but,those tend to be discounted by no scientific evidence.
(though it have been known radioactive was sometimes detected around those sites where aliens were reported)
Expert 09-12-2016 22:27 (GMT)
Their ribs broken or body discovered under 4M snow .. would be explained by the assumption.
Expert 09-12-2016 22:16 (GMT)
Dubin and Zolota could be thrown out of craft after abducting
Expert 09-12-2016 20:02 (GMT)
I know what peoples think when I mention about aliens. but I am not a believer in fairy and i am not a fan of StarWars . I just need to say the possibility of alien attack could be high in this incident.
if we exclude it , it is hard to explain in right logic

Expert 09-12-2016 10:31 (GMT)
drunk and sleepy.
Expert 09-12-2016 10:28 (GMT)
i wanna write .. but now , i am drunk haha . so next
Expert 09-12-2016 10:22 (GMT)
becos they were so cold to death. go into -25 with slight wear . then you can say.
Nigel Evans 08-12-2016 17:21 (GMT)
Expert - ok so they flee the tent to escape an alien craft but then they light a camp fire?
Expert 07-12-2016 15:45 (GMT)
Next ...................
Expert 07-12-2016 15:43 (GMT)
I know some case about alien craft. even there are some cases about sky balls in our country
Expert 07-12-2016 15:40 (GMT)
I am thinking the sky ball was alien craft.
Expert 07-12-2016 15:39 (GMT)
He thought earlier sky ball was clearly relative to the incident ......
and said close one '' the sky ball would be spaceship or natural phenomenon or new weapon . ''
Expert 07-12-2016 15:25 (GMT)
He=Ivanov
Expert 07-12-2016 15:23 (GMT)
I read there was a interview of him in 1990's
he would know what happened then. about mystery of the incident.
1960 and 1990 are very different age on science.
He could think somethings more than then..
Expert 07-12-2016 15:17 (GMT)
6 hikers seemingly died of hypothermia. but that was not all. they died after chemical attack. they couldn't feel cold maybe.. by chemical anesthesia .
I am thinking now.. whether the balls are artificial force or natural force.

It have been know Ivanov maybe could have some photos that weren't announced on public
Expert 07-12-2016 14:21 (GMT)
There were more photos about sky balls . it looks like nothings . but some hikers took it repeatedly
(Zolotarev, probably, took 19 shots. The objects seemed to move in the direction of the Pass because the images get bigger. )
Expert 07-12-2016 14:09 (GMT)
The chemical cause turned their hair, skin
Expert 07-12-2016 14:05 (GMT)
See 2 corpse under cedar or Slobodin corpse.
It looks like they were sleeping at summer night.

they might die of hypothermia after anesthetized or stunned.


(1) All 9 hikers were attacked by something .
( though specially fatal attack was for Ravine peoples )

(2)6 peoples except for 3 peoples were known to die of hypothermia. but that was just result of physical looks in 1959 medical.


I think there were chemical attack by something.
Nigel Evans 06-12-2016 21:34 (GMT)
Purplehorn because it doesn't fit with the facts. That's why the police investigation didn't go for it.
Robs 06-12-2016 09:06 (GMT)
There were no boot prints of the 9 around the tent. So they either setup the tent in bare foot or the prints were covered. So if the prints were covered then prints of hijackers could be covered?
And yes it could have been murder from within the group but no one survived ... why?
Expert 06-12-2016 06:15 (GMT)
PurpleHorn / if so, how to be explained ''9 mansi killed in past time'' or ''the cause of 9hikers's gray hair, dark orange skin'' or ..........
I think it is unlikely




Robs / think no footprints of invader - that would be
why official investigator Ivanov turn his idea from murder(people) to hovering balls .
PurpleHorn 06-12-2016 00:24 (GMT)
Why do so many leave out the simplest idea that there was conflict within the group?
Robs 05-12-2016 17:48 (GMT)
Why do they need aircraft why couldn't they walk? Something made them leave the tent with little or no clothing knowing they would die soon. 4 were killed in the ravine. 2 died never trying to get back to the tent. 3 died trying to get back to tent. I can see no other reason than being hijacked internally or externally
Expert 05-12-2016 16:01 (GMT)
I must consider again. . . . to solve this incident
it cannot be discounted -
500M Site ! their foot prints disappeared or covered with snow .. any information (like photos) ??????
Expert 05-12-2016 12:28 (GMT)
My first question is useless. but what about second question ?
Expert 05-12-2016 12:02 (GMT)
Robs / What type of aircraft did the hijackers use ?
Expert 05-12-2016 09:31 (GMT)
Robs / it is written on this site - A chain of eight or nine sets of footprints, left by several people who were wearing socks, a single shoe or barefoot, could be followed and led down towards the edge of nearby woods (on the opposite side of the pass, 1.5 km north-east) but after 500 m they were covered with snow.


disappear ? or covered with snow ?
Robs 04-12-2016 20:22 (GMT)
My theory is that hijackers forced them to leave tent with no shoes and little clothing knowing that they would soon die (and attacked them later). The tracks disappeared just like the tracks from the 9'when they setup camp
Expert 04-12-2016 17:15 (GMT)
I misread. About footprint disappeared 500 M from tent. just covered with snow. . . . . . this made me puzzled haha
Expert 04-12-2016 16:56 (GMT)
Robs / that was zolotariov's , which puzzled researchers earlier before he was discovered with his leather boots.
Ivanov concluded nobody around the site , the day
Robs 04-12-2016 13:38 (GMT)
There must have been boot prints around the tent. Otherwise the 9 setup the tent without boots which is impossible.
Expert 04-12-2016 11:22 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRaRPNhc67k
Expert 04-12-2016 11:20 (GMT)
Snow sports is not my favorite .
So I Research how perfectly the shoes could remove footprints . ( even poles leave sharp trace behind )

I remove the possibility of military.
Expert 04-12-2016 01:13 (GMT)
their goal was otorten where Mansi warned . they would want a thrill with curiosity. but Mansi warning became real. I am reading Mansi interview. they seemingly watched everything relative to their death (death of fellow tribes ,
weird death of some animals , hovering balls. . )
Mansi tribes were afraid of going there.
So, they named it Otorten.
Expert 04-12-2016 00:10 (GMT)
the Russian was walking even with barefoot. total angle of the terrain was gentle with much snow.

when I watched the videos , I guess injuries of the 9hikers were caused by attack - not while running .

Expert 03-12-2016 23:49 (GMT)
This videos were the pass of the hikers at the day.
(from tent to ravine)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOVmADGlX2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpJi6iNWF0
Expert 03-12-2016 17:21 (GMT)
this mystery can not be explained in close age, if it is not explained with open mind.

many scientists explained the globe was flat . but they could not explain why last land had not been discovered .
Expert 03-12-2016 17:09 (GMT)
And why do Nobody explain about one that need to be explained ? ?
footprints of 9hikers along 500 meters site from tent .
where ,, why did it evaporate ?
Nigel Evans 03-12-2016 14:11 (GMT)
Expert - don't know, could be just one that stayed by the tent for say an hour before heading down to the ravine, or it could be two separate BL events.
We'll never know the exact sequence or reasons, all we have are the facts, which are :-
1. they fled the tent very quickly.
2. they would not return to the tent preferring to stay by the fire and the den.
3. tree tops were burnt.
4. 2 of them suffered burns.
5. 4 of them died from injuries consistent with an explosion.
6. eye witness accounts describe lights/explosions a week later.
7. the mansi people blamed the golden orbs.
8. an experienced police investigator was forced to agree with them.
Expert 03-12-2016 13:40 (GMT)
You answer second question of me -> if BL chased the hikers , why did BL give them time ?

so you said it - 2 or more than 2. one was around tent. another was around cedar or ravine.
Right ?
Expert 03-12-2016 13:30 (GMT)
the video below your reply .
Nigel Evans 03-12-2016 13:03 (GMT)
Expert - what video?

No my theory is they fled the tent to escape the BL there which did not follow until later or it was another one. No chasing down the hill.

These two entries from wikipedia have all of the necessary elements to explain the DPI, BL covering distance to reach group, killing individuals and explosive force. N.B. the mast might have been 20 inches in diameter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning The Catherine and Mary

In December 1726 a number of British newspapers printed an extract of a letter from John Howell of the sloop Catherine and Mary:

As we were coming thro’ the Gulf of Florida on 29th of August, a large ball of fire fell from the Element and split our mast in Ten Thousand Pieces, if it were possible; split our Main Beam, also Three Planks of the Side, Under Water, and Three of the Deck; killed one man, another had his Hand carried of [sic], and had it not been for the violent rains, our Sails would have been of a Blast of Fire.[10][11]

The Montague

One particularly large example was reported "on the authority of Dr. Gregory" in 1749:

Admiral Chambers on board the Montague, 4 November 1749, was taking an observation just before noon...he observed a large ball of blue fire about three miles distant from them. They immediately lowered their topsails, but it came up so fast upon them, that, before they could raise the main tack, they observed the ball rise almost perpendicularly, and not above forty or fifty yards from the main chains when it went off with an explosion, as great as if a hundred cannons had been discharged at the same time, leaving behind it a strong sulphurous smell. By this explosion the main top-mast was shattered into pieces and the main mast went down to the keel.

Five men were knocked down and one of them very bruised. Just before the explosion, the ball seemed to be the size of a large mill-stone.[2]
Expert 03-12-2016 12:58 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOVmADGlX2Y
Expert 03-12-2016 12:56 (GMT)
I am thinking that (after watching the video)
1. the distance between tent and ravine is shorter than I thought .
2. terrain angle is gentle ..



So, they (attacker and escaper) might watch easily the lights- each others possessed . . . . . .

It is unlikely their ribs broken happened by falling into ravine .
(( there were much snow piled on gentle terrain. )

Expert 03-12-2016 12:27 (GMT)
This is the video I really wanted for investigation on internet.
and I recommend peoples here watch this video - some Russian investigators walking along hikers 's pass ( from the tent site to the last ravine site ) .
Expert 03-12-2016 08:26 (GMT)
Robs guess they fell into ravine, got ribs broken.. after that,, some eyeballs removed by scavengers .

Nigel guess they got ribs broken by BL .. after that,, some eyeballs removed by scavengers .

If eyeballs,tongue were not removed by scavengers in nature,
the force must be artificial force.
Expert 03-12-2016 07:45 (GMT)
Ravine 4 injuries were made by artificial force.
Expert 03-12-2016 07:43 (GMT)
And The thing Teddy said "all soft tissue of them must have been damaged.

i think this is very important. to say whether ravine 4 got the injury by mistake or by attack.
Expert 03-12-2016 07:35 (GMT)
Nigel // you need to explain this question.
they clearly were frightened by something around their exit.
and you claim something is ball lightening.

1) there have been such BL phenomenon reported that fly with group ?
- Witnesses said a group of balls hovering

2) if BL chased the hikers , why did BL give them time ? (this sounds unlikely)
-It took time for them to make a fire , dig a den......

you explain it as a physics .
BL have electronic and life have electronic. so the hikers were chased by BL.

I assume the balls could wander around the tent.
that is why they watched out and did not come back in sever weather.
and it might be possible there re-appeared around cedar there was ,at least, 2th attack around ravine.

Expert 03-12-2016 06:58 (GMT)
Teddy // You mentioned a important thing - to say whether ravine 4 got the injury by mistake or by attack.

# About Eyeballs , tongue removed .

I don't think the injuries happened by the scavenger.
(I like to watch nature documentary, book or article..
that is one of hobbies of me)
I wonder which life eat other life like those way. . . ? ? ? ? ? ?
Investigators have to mention the cause as this injuries are important.
They would know those weren't caused by scavengers bite. ( at least , there were microscopes in 1959. though they were poor compared to now)
Nigel Evans 01-12-2016 13:00 (GMT)
Teddy - no probs.

Rib theories :-
1. Ball lightning - A week after the deaths eye witnesses saw a light moving through the sky and subsequently reported two explosions. Historical accounts of BL include substantial explosive force. So this was the bomb that the pathologist suggested.
2. The local mansi have a hallucinogenic mushroom (fly agaric?) that assists them jumping high in rituals. However these injuries are consistent with falling 60 feet so they'd have to be jumping high! Happy and no skin injuries to support such impact.
3. Military accident during exercise - unlikely because it would have (a) been reported so no need for an investigation (police / kgb teams on site for three months) or b) explosive device would have left some fragments.

An unusual number of dead birds (white grouse) were found around the ravine. An explosion is the best theory to explain the rib fractures and hence the skull fractures.
Teddy 01-12-2016 10:56 (GMT)
I was commenting on Rain's question about blood in the lungs and got carried away. I wanted to testify that there was blood in the lungs for sure.
Nigel, the cause of the tongue injury is speculative, but I have not heard a theory about the ribs so far. I know what could cause it, but who inflicted it and how. i think even Rakitin doesn't explain that.
Nigel Evans 01-12-2016 10:00 (GMT)
Teddy - Wow you're lucky to be alive, hope you've fully recovered.

Yes you're echoing the pathologists report that the injuries required substantial energy like in a car crash or the shockwave from a bomb, his words.

But LD did lose her top lip as well as the tongue so it could be natural causes via predation, a theory being that she bit it hard in the "event", swallowed a little blood before dying, predation from something with a low consumption rate doing the rest.
Teddy 30-11-2016 18:09 (GMT)
Another thing - what caused my trauma is high velocity impact - I was mounted in the back of a truck, much like this http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film6-05.jpg the truck going down a mountain and the brakes failed. The truck lost control and we smashed into a rock with 70 km/h. So I tell you - you can not break your ribs by falling down a snow slope or somebody hitting you with a heavy bat. This is what is puzzling me, even if there were people pointing guns at them, how did they manage to inflict such a horrific injuries? A butt of a rifle can cause and most probably did cause Slobodin's skull fracture http://dyatlov-pass.com/death#Slobodin but not Dubinina's broken ribs. Zolotaryov had similar rib fractures http://dyatlov-pass.com/death#Zolotaryov
Teddy 30-11-2016 17:52 (GMT)
Dubinina had 10 broken ribs on both sides. Please refer to http://dyatlov-pass.com/death#Dubinina I had similar injury - flail chest with lung contusion http://distal-humerus.com/resources/320/gallery/2012-07-24-X-Ray-chest.jpg They drained my right lung for 10 days - it was a pulp. My prognosis was dim.
Dubinina had twice as much broken ribs but she didn't drown in her own blood because a broken rib pierced her heart.
The cause of death is stated as hemorrhage into right atrium of the heart, multiple fractured ribs and internal bleeding
More interesting is that there were 100 g of coagulated blood in her stomach which means she swallowed after her tongue was ripped out.
Photos of Lyudmila from the morgue clearly show that there is no damage to the mouth, nose, ears or other soft tissues. If the body was devoured by scavengers, insects or even fish in the water these would be the first parts of the body that would show signs of damage.
Rain 30-11-2016 17:07 (GMT)
Was there any blood found in Dubinina's lungs?
Nigel Evans 30-11-2016 15:24 (GMT)
the threat was strong enough for them to ignore the axes in the tent.

Accidentally killed in a military exercise would be reported and there would no need for an investigation. Plus no foot prints found.

It has to be murder or natural force of some kind. If murder then the murderers tried to look after them first.....
Expert 30-11-2016 06:37 (GMT)
Nobody was shot by soldier gun. but what made them urgent ??
and where have soldiers footprint gone ?
Expert 30-11-2016 06:34 (GMT)
but it seem that
they did not resist but just run urgently , did not come back before death.. Though soldiers seemingly did not shot them, why they were so scared ??????????
Expert 30-11-2016 06:28 (GMT)
But that made me confused is that - there were soldiers of witnesses . they watch hovering object. but none of them did not say illuminating shell . (soldiers can distinguish it easily )

and personally i cannot understand the situation - why there were no footprint of soldiers.
soldiers would give them time to leave from the site. or soldiers would arrest them to investigate about why they were there or what goal they had or how they got to know the site.
Expert 30-11-2016 06:05 (GMT)
illuminating shell .When It is used at night, we can see
as at night as at day .
it could make tree top burnt
Expert 30-11-2016 05:59 (GMT)
I think.. It is hard for usual peoples to do the threaten. .
9Mansi also killed in past time. (even except for 9 killed by airplane accident)

that made me think militant possibility is high . . .
and burnt tree at top remind me of illuminating shell
illuminating shell was used when we did war training . this photo - http://www.timesofisrael.com/rocket-or-mortar-shell-fired-from-gaza-at-israel/
Expert 30-11-2016 05:40 (GMT)
# The possibility of military.
I was a soldier. (all men in our country have duty on military)
Where i was on duty was around border line.
(our country was divided by war . long time before)

There is tension along the border (in military zone)
-Usual citizens banned from entering the zone.

if someones are found in the zone,
1-soldiers would warn them go out . if they don't obey the order, we report it to our senior.. waiting for order.
or when they extremely resist with weapon, soldiers can shot with militant gun.

that is usual way.

Military is the organism run by order.

i thought the possibility of military was high. because the force seemed to be very strong.

9 peoples (containing 7 guys) couldn't think any resistant with only panic.
Even tent torn in sever cold.

the force must be very strong.

Nigel Evans 29-11-2016 21:53 (GMT)
Thought that last post was worth restating :-

That they fled the tent and then lit a fire instead of returning to the tent rules out a lot of possibilities.

EITHER
a) fleeing a natural force that remained at the tent after they had reached the trees.
OR
b) prisoners of something/someone that insisted they leave the tent without footwear but let them light a fire and strip the first two in order to stay warm and build a den in the shelter of the ravine. But then killed them....

I'll stick with a) Happy
Nigel Evans 29-11-2016 18:27 (GMT)
That they fled the tent but then lit a fire rules out a lot of possibilities. Either fleeing a natural force or prisoners of something/someone that insisted they leave the tent without footwear but let them light a fire and strip the first two in order to stay warm and build a den in the shelter of the ravine.
But then killed them....
Expert 29-11-2016 16:50 (GMT)
I think sincerely the possibility of extraterrestrial.
Expert 29-11-2016 16:46 (GMT)
the Last photo was like hovering object taken by Krivonischenko .

But the photo taken really in last time would be zolotaryov's. it might be real reason why ravine 4 were attacked. he would take a surprising photo. ( he protect his camera around his neck. )
other ones .. what about that ? 29-11-2016 14:54 (GMT)
hovering ball was nothing with the incident.
injuries happened by their accident.
it make the incident easier.
Expert 29-11-2016 14:44 (GMT)
If i discount Ivanov , Robs opinion is heard "proper".
Expert 29-11-2016 14:36 (GMT)
that might be very simple incident. . .
Chaser and Runner at night.
(but , footprint of chaser around tent ?? )
Expert 29-11-2016 14:29 (GMT)
this is my contradiction to Robs opinion.
but when i communicated wih you, rather i thought it .
if i discount some arguement,
Robs opinion is heard logic to me .

In other words, Everyone might have made simple incident so complex.




Expert 29-11-2016 14:19 (GMT)
(1) i still dont understand why investigators did not leave mention - eyeballs or tongue by animals.
(we are just talking about that .. watching photo , but they watched real injury)

(2)Ivanov concluded no one around the day and the site.
(but you Robs guess it - by human)

(3) I read medical report - ravine 4 died earlier than others
(i will check out again)

(4) It seems that Ivanov the investigator consider burnt tree as a point. but a member of soviet congress forced him not to talk about that.
(but Robs discount flying ball)

(5) radioactive
Robs 29-11-2016 13:35 (GMT)
I don't believe the doctors report. Remember this was 1959 and I think it was inaccurate. I find it difficult to understand how they can say they died in a certain order after months of being in the ravine. Also if clothes were missing off the ceder tree 2 and were found In the ravine then they were either stripped of clothing while still alive or the ravine 4 died after the ceder tree 2 (this is more likely)
Expert 29-11-2016 12:44 (GMT)
ravine .. my english -.-
Expert 29-11-2016 12:41 (GMT)
I will check the article out again
Expert 29-11-2016 12:40 (GMT)
I just read it at medical report - raven 4 died earlier than other 5
Expert 29-11-2016 12:38 (GMT)
I am thinking now... but your opinion is logical.
Robs 29-11-2016 12:26 (GMT)
Expert, yes I agree. However some of the clothes found at ravine were from ceder tree two. That means that the ceder tree died before the ravine 4 otherwise why take there clothes
Expert 29-11-2016 12:24 (GMT)
Ok, now .. our reply order ( answer after question ) is fused .. haha. anyway i am reading your opinion.
Expert 29-11-2016 12:18 (GMT)
as i said before, it might mean - all peoples dig a den around raven. and something attacked them. and the first death happened. and 5 peoples were scattered. I think it s possible logic
Robs 29-11-2016 12:17 (GMT)
People have reported seeing hovering lights all over the world many times none of which have been proven to kill multiple persons. I don't think the BL or lights are relevant. I'm
Not denying that they weren't there but I don't think they chased the 9 and killed them. The injuries i have 2 opinions, 1. They fell into the Ravine which caused crushing injuries, they were attacked by persons unknown.
Expert 29-11-2016 12:14 (GMT)
Robs/ 2 under cedar died after raven 4 died ( medical test ) .. what about that ?
Expert 29-11-2016 12:02 (GMT)
If something was other human, which is also mystery .
Expert 29-11-2016 11:57 (GMT)
car crush like injury but no external injury.
Expert 29-11-2016 11:55 (GMT)
Mick and robs/
so,, How can you explain hovering balls ? or both of you think that is not relative with this incident ?
how they left those injury - like car crush ?
Robs 29-11-2016 11:42 (GMT)
The bodies in the ravene were not found for 2 months. This means certainly animals could have done this. For every question there are two more. They were buried under 4 meters of snow, so when did that occur? Why were they wearing clothes of other members ? My opinion is that they were all at the ceder tree and then split up from there. That's the only explanation I think otherwise why would they be wearing each other's clothes?
Expert 29-11-2016 11:40 (GMT)
I need to check out more info. about natural flying ball like ball lighting .
but I ask you another question - if there is an example of lighting ball in group type.
(allegedly witnesses saw a group of hovering balls)
Expert 29-11-2016 11:31 (GMT)
that is a real wonder which life eat only eye balls of other life .. . Animals tend to leave their trace-such traces torn by bite or beak. ..
even i doubt if there were snails around Siberia mountain stream in winter .
Robs 28-11-2016 18:09 (GMT)
That is a possibility Mick, certainly i think that the group were hijacked by persons unknown
Mick 28-11-2016 17:44 (GMT)
Earlier, the group had had an argument with a drunk man who claimed they'd stolen his wallet, so perhaps when he'd sobered up he got his friends to follow the hikers, and clubbed them in their tent?
Nigel Evans 28-11-2016 08:27 (GMT)
expert - something like water snails explains the assymmetry, LD eyes and tongue, SZ eyes other two untouched. Rodents would presumably attack all four bodies more evenly. Imo it's plausible that there aren't a lot of water snails around in a siberian winter.

The pathologist did not offer any opinion as the loss of her tongue. No one knows how it went.
Nigel Evans 27-11-2016 18:39 (GMT)
Robs - well Tunguska is a subject as big if not bigger than the dpi, but from memory - the main explosion can be explained by a bolide but only one with a very very very specific construction and mass to be able to survive the earth's atmosphere but not leave an impact crater.
And a bolide doesn't help explain :-
1. eye witness accounts of many subsequent explosions for minutes afterwards (like cannonfire).
2. eye witness accounts of a large change in direction.
3. earthquake lights (from memory before and after the event) - daylight at midnight in parts of Europe.
That's just off the top of my head.

I'm glad you are 99% certain that CM isn't caused by BL. Other people aren't so sure Happy. One of the interesting features of CM is that the animals can be found in ground or on snow banks that show no signs of the animal walking there, as if they fell from the sky. N.B. these reports are from hard headed farmers, vets, police etc... Thrown by an explosion?

Ufo web sites are full of reports of bodies being found in remote places (e.g. google Unit 58) but you've got to believe in conspiracy theories to accept their case. If like me you don't then you would have to widen the time span. If you say how many recorded cases of fatalities in the last 500 years are due to BL i would guess at dozens maybe three figures, and that's where eye witnesses survive of course. Just because something is infrequent doesn't lessen it's suitability as an explanation of the dpi.
A example of this is that someone has asked the question "how many people have been killed by meteorites in recorded history?" and the answer maybe 1000, apparently the ancient Chinese have records going back thousands of years. One guy (1800s?) was recorded as being hit in the chest as if shot from a rifle. Don't think he'd be consoled by the infrequency of the event... Happy

Expert -
Q. If it was natural phenomenon,
where did eyes or tongue disappear ?
A. I've answered this before, predation, e.g. water snails can be carnivorous.

Q. why did not they call others... hiding self from something ?
A. Who are they going to call in the middle of a siberian forest? Ghostbusters? Happy

Q. why did Soviet cover up a natural phenomenon ?
A. It wasn't covered up, it was diluted to *unknown and compelling force" and the soviet authorities closed the area for three years to investigate. This was Soviet Russia where civil servants got arrested and shot for telling the truth.
Robs 27-11-2016 17:28 (GMT)
Nigel, I am sorry but I dont agree with your explanations. Tunguska was a meteorite is is almost 100% proved, cattle mutilations is unexplained but I can say 99% it's not BL. Nigel, In recent history, I mean in the last 20 years has anyone been killed let alone 9 people Killed or seriously injured due to BL?
Nigel Evans 27-11-2016 15:52 (GMT)
Robs - well as BL cannot be explained by our current science, it affords people like me - "supporters of the BL explanation for the DPI", the luxury of just making things up Happy. So it's not hard to concoct theories.

Imo there are a number of phenomena that seem to be explainble (at leat in part) as due to a "geo motor effect" (BL, Tunguska, cattle mutilations), i.e. some as yet unknown (but probably based on electro magnetism) physics where there seems to be some interaction between the earth's magnetism and atmospheric static electricity, possbly compounded by solar wind activity (latitude=60). This interaction seems to create localised massless energy that persists for a limited time. These events are infrequent but can repeat at certain locations possibly due to the prevalence of suitable conditions within the ground and latitude.

But regarding the DPI :-
1. They fled the tent by the close proximity of BL at or near the entrance.
2. The "campfire two" deaths have multiple possible explanations, fall from tree plus lost conscious whilst unattended and falling too close to the fire (burns, charring) or electrocution from BL. Imo the proximity of the den to the campfire suggests that the remaining seven saw no threat and hence that leans against BL so probably natural causes.
3. The remaining group (all 7) are in the ravine when the same BL at the tent or a new event moves towards them scorching tree tops. It then explodes (a known feature of BL) with great force and heat, killing four of them immediately (injuries consistent with explosion trauma) or they expired shortly afterwards, LD bit her tongue in the explosion and had time to swallow blood, the wound subsequently attracting predation. The explosion kills a significant number of birds roosting in the trees nearby.
4. The remaining three are the hardest to explain, all seem to be returning to the tent but expire in a close grouping. ID has clear signs of hypothermia, but the other two less so. The overnight temperature in the area in general was -20C and it is estimated that on the mountain it would have been closer to -30C. And of course there could have been some other reduction of temperature connected with BL? If the BL was giving off heat it could have created a localised artificial wind, reducing the local temperature in the immediate vicinity (that cold spot is ribbed a sign of high winds). I have a memory of reading a report from local mansi of extremely high winds that night, this contradicting the official weather reports..
So best guess is that the explosion weakened them, they were exposed to extreme cold (possibly supercold?), they could have suffered radiation exposure that the autopsies missed (radiation was found on their clothing but could have been picked up from exploring disused mines) and this resulting in them expiring at a similar time.
5. As to the question - "why would the BL be attracted to groups of people, well human beings are electrical systems rich in metal compounds so perhaps the answer lies there (but we don't know). BL accounts clearly describe how it interacts with metal (follows overground, underground cables etc.). Or the ravine could slightly closer to underground metal deposits than the rest of the ground, etc etc etc.
Robs 27-11-2016 13:57 (GMT)
Nigel, please can you explain why they left the tent due to BL, then explain how it followed them, then explain how it killed 4 in the ravine, then explain how it killed the 3 returning to the tent, then explain how it kept the two from returning from the tree to the tent ?
Nigel Evans 27-11-2016 12:15 (GMT)
Robs - a frequent occurence of BL is that a single object divides into several - "a string of pearls". Indeed the last link from expert records an eye witness account of this.

Daniel - any explanation of BL has to account for it's mobility over potentially many miles, see my BBC link below. Specifically wrt the dpi - formation at altitude in the clouds, travelling through the sky (for many miles?) slowly descending to ground level. It's fascinating stuff, one account describes how BL appeared within a passenger jet, exited harmlessly through the pressurised fuselage and then bounced along the wing perpendicular to the airstream (approx 400mph). If you're interested in more accounts Paul Sagan's - Ball Lightning A Paradox of Physics, is a cheap source of hundreds of eye witness accounts mainly from the scientists, engineers and military at Oak Ridge Labs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Ridge_National_Laboratory
Robs 26-11-2016 16:58 (GMT)
The bodies weren't found for weeks. Footprints couldhave easily been made or covered without any hassle including the hijackers foot prints (if that's what happened) the BL theory is just too far fetched for me, to make them Leave the tent in such a panic, apparently follow them and kill them at different locations doesn't seem right
Admin 26-11-2016 15:20 (GMT)
> Daniel
You can send me the PDF at the email listed at the top of this page, above the comments. I will published under http://dyatlov-pass.com/theories
Daniel 26-11-2016 15:17 (GMT)
Hello,
My opinion is that indeed the all nine people had to do with an extraordinary phenomenon involving (in my opinion) an atmospheric electricity process. A large-scale electrical discharge (a unique plasma discharge) generated by landscape configuration and tectonic plates stress in the area. In laboratory simulation, high-intensity electrical discharges (see Dense Plasma Focus device - http://web.brasimone.enea.it/plasma/plasma1.htm ) are associated with X, gamma radiation, heat release and other effects. To see if indeed the environment in that area can create large scale electrical discharges with unique features you need to have some measurement devices (voltmeter, amperemeter, magnetometer)and patience. The process is cyclical.

I have a description of this hypothetical process - I could send it in pdf format?

Thank you,
Daniel
Nigel Evans 26-11-2016 13:23 (GMT)
For ball lightning fans, one of the theories to explain it is that it is a plasmoid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmoid apparently you can generate one in your microwave - http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/gmr/
Nigel Evans 26-11-2016 13:12 (GMT)
Expert - thanks for the links, but everyone please be aware that my virus software (Symantec) blocks some of the links within the first page as attack sites.

Some interesting details though that i haven't heard of before :-
1. a cold spot near the tent due to a heat source melting the snow and refreezing. This ould be freeze thaw from the sun but the situation doesn't seem to fit that possibility.
2. An unusual number of dead birds found in the area by the rescue party. An explosion would explain that of course.
3. The snow that covered the ravine four was four metres deeps and very solid (frozen) requiring a lot of digging. The depth could be due to drifts but this doesn't explain the solidity. But both the depth and solidity can be easily explained due to a heat source melting the snow on the sides of the ravine that then slid down over the bodies and then refroze...
Robs 25-11-2016 21:44 (GMT)
The key to the whole mystery is the tent and the reason that the had the escape quickly. Once you have that answer the rest will be obvious (just my opinion). I have thought about the reason and knowing that they were experienced mountaineers and scientists or at least students the only reason i can think of is they were hijacked by internal or external persons.
John 24-11-2016 09:27 (GMT)
I should clarify. By similar injury I mean impact related or blunt force broken rips skull fractures the like. I have a theory about the woman who bit off her tongue. But I'm doing some digging into that before I post it.
Expert 23-11-2016 00:19 (GMT)
All my possibility is limited in ''gun man or alien from space or yeti''
(I don't believe in Yeti. there is little possibility but I can't discount it in this incident.)
Expert 23-11-2016 00:04 (GMT)
I am thinking about that - the first discovered pose of Dubina

she was climbing stone in stream ( though it was very cold winter )
and she was discovered in that pose

- she would be alive with removed eyeballs .
Expert 22-11-2016 23:55 (GMT)
and something wasn't any animal
Expert 22-11-2016 23:53 (GMT)
1.Something did not chase them as soon as they run ..
but started to chase them after some time.

2.They did not call each other after scattered
- it mean they tried to hide oneself from something.

I am saying that wasn't any natural force.


Expert 22-11-2016 23:41 (GMT)
John // all of them had similar injury ? I didn't understand it exactly.
John 21-11-2016 12:01 (GMT)
Expert. Given the near universal presence of impact related injuries I'm wondering about the construction of the tent it seems the only way all of them could have such similar injuries is if initial incident occurred at the tent. Keeping in mind experienced hikers cut their way out of a tent in a dangerously cold area.
Expert 20-11-2016 05:56 (GMT)
There are many videos some Russians explored on the site..
Expert 20-11-2016 05:51 (GMT)
.. well........... i need to correct my last reply. i am not sure every fire can be sensed on the place. but a chaser could find their fire site easily in night time. ANany way , Russians would get more information. from their updated research. i need to check out the more information
Expert 19-11-2016 23:33 (GMT)
i found interesting thing on the russia site linked.
On the place where the tent was made ,a Viewer could see every light. If something was artificial force, it seems that the force could see every light the students made. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AIDi2udwl8 ( 4:36 view )
Expert 19-11-2016 23:18 (GMT)
( my english is poor , our country don't use english. so i learnt it as a second language) but i understood entire situation. this is the reality novel that made me fall into ..
Expert 19-11-2016 23:07 (GMT)
the tent was discovered 25 days after they had been missed . but little amount of snow over the tent in 25days.
Expert 19-11-2016 22:55 (GMT)
there are many hypothesis.. most of them are useless. i check every possibility out. clearly most of them are useless. we cannot know what is real .. but we can know what don't fit in .. Avalanche - the possibility is 0%
Nigel Evans 19-11-2016 13:35 (GMT)
The link - http://www.climbing.ru/forum/all/topic_1534/ can be translated online. Go to google translate and copy and paste the link in the left hand side and then click on the right hand side.

Lots of discussion there (58 pages!). Imo the avalanche theory can be discounted because it doesn't explain why they clearly avoided returning to the tent to get boots and clothing even after two had died.
Expert 16-11-2016 20:39 (GMT)
something interesting is that diatlov pass is likely same to now since 1968
Expert 16-11-2016 20:30 (GMT)
to montana. the site linked by you looks very good. many replys and many photos by Russians. But I have no idea on Russia languages.. I just can use a little English as a 2th language. But photos and videos make me interesting . I am checking those out.
montana1903 14-11-2016 14:03 (GMT)
Just realised a person who looks like Mansi among the group ! It even gets more interesting..

http://www.climbing.ru/forum/all/topic_1534/
Nigel Evans 04-11-2016 17:08 (GMT)
I expect to see an increased frequency of these reports now that many people have a video camera enabled smartphone. Looking forward to the day one explodes on camera...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37843273
Nigel Evans 02-11-2016 00:25 (GMT)
Coral Hull - your post is an interesting piece of synchronicity for me. I've just returned from Ireland where i purchased a book - "Field Guide to Irish Fairies". This tells me that some fairies are fallen angels. It also describes the Sheerie a nocturnal fairy that lures travellers to their deaths because they follow it's light.
This led me to google Will-o-the-wisp and find links were people (in previous centuries) have captured the lights and the material producing them describing it as luminescent frogspawn that quickly degrades to a whitish, grayish foam. Note the report on YD....
Nigel Evans 01-11-2016 23:59 (GMT)
Expert - and you need to read my posts properly.
Coral Hull 01-11-2016 01:11 (GMT)
Fallen angels [orb form, pagan gods, fake UFOs] murdered the hikers at Dyatlov Pass, on 2nd February, 1959. I believe that a manifesting demonic entity, [known as a yeti, menk, bigfoot or skinwalker], was also involved in the murders and assisted by the fallen angels. I haven't seen/ or read anything that comes close to explaining/ describing all the injuries and positioning of the bodies after death.


Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 20:34 (GMT)
Remind me what are we agreeing to disagree about?
Robs 31-10-2016 19:12 (GMT)
Ok we will have to agree to disagree
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 18:55 (GMT)
Robs > Just for you Happy, four people died here :-


The Great Thunderstorm of Widecombe-in-the-Moor
Another early description was reported during the Great Thunderstorm at a church in Widecombe-in-the-Moor, Devon, in England, on 21 October 1638. Four people died and approximately 60 were injured when, during a severe storm, an 8-foot (2.4 m) ball of fire was described as striking and entering the church, having nearly destroyed it. Large stones from the church walls were hurled into the ground and through large wooden beams. The ball of fire allegedly smashed the pews and many windows, and filled the church with a foul sulfurous odour and dark, thick smoke.
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 18:53 (GMT)
Robs - you've got to be kidding, the Warren Hastings event killed two men?

Also the sentence - " By this explosion the main top-mast was shattered into pieces and the main mast went down to the keel.". Is talking about a section of the mast being shattered that could be 70 feet long and 21 inches in diameter. That's a significant explosion imo, i wouldn't want to be in a ravine with that going off over my head...
Robs 31-10-2016 18:45 (GMT)
So there is no record of multiple deaths via BL
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 17:22 (GMT)
Robs - the three cases below would seem to give you :-
1. strong explosion capable of shattering rib cages "like a shockwave from a bomb".
2. burns.
3. burnt treetops.




The Catherine and Mary

In December 1726 a number of British newspapers printed an extract of a letter from John Howell of the sloop Catherine and Mary:

As we were coming thro’ the Gulf of Florida on 29th of August, a large ball of fire fell from the Element and split our mast in Ten Thousand Pieces, if it were possible; split our Main Beam, also Three Planks of the Side, Under Water, and Three of the Deck; killed one man, another had his Hand carried of [sic], and had it not been for the violent rains, our Sails would have been of a Blast of Fire.[10][11]

The Montague

One particularly large example was reported "on the authority of Dr. Gregory" in 1749:

Admiral Chambers on board the Montague, 4 November 1749, was taking an observation just before noon...he observed a large ball of blue fire about three miles distant from them. They immediately lowered their topsails, but it came up so fast upon them, that, before they could raise the main tack, they observed the ball rise almost perpendicularly, and not above forty or fifty yards from the main chains when it went off with an explosion, as great as if a hundred cannons had been discharged at the same time, leaving behind it a strong sulphurous smell. By this explosion the main top-mast was shattered into pieces and the main mast went down to the keel.

Five men were knocked down and one of them very bruised. Just before the explosion, the ball seemed to be the size of a large mill-stone.[2]
HMS Warren Hastings

An English journal reported that during an 1809 storm, three "balls of fire" appeared and "attacked" the British ship HMS Warren Hastings. The crew watched one ball descend, killing a man on deck and setting the main mast on fire. A crewman went out to retrieve the fallen body and was struck by a second ball, which knocked him back and left him with mild burns. A third man was killed by contact with the third ball. Crew members reported a persistent, sickening sulfur smell afterward.[13][14]
Robs 31-10-2016 17:14 (GMT)
Hello Nigel, without reading word for word it seems no one has been killed and if they have none have got similar injuries to the DPI persons? Maybe you can clarify?
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 13:31 (GMT)
Robs - pasting my link from the 4th post on this page :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning N.B. most ufo sightings are probably ball lightning.
Robs 31-10-2016 12:11 (GMT)
How many people had BL actually killed leaving these exact injuries ? I suspect none but I'm not an expert?
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 11:13 (GMT)
Expert - there are 10,000 theories for the DPI none of which can be disproved, aliens, forest fairies, mirror universes, etc etc. Imo it's pointless to speculate like this.
I'm only interested in sticking to the facts.
One of the most important facts is that (as said before) they urgently left the tent but then lit a fire a little time afterwards.
This narrows down the possibilities considerably to either natural but non intelligent force, or prisoners and subsequently murdered.
The "murdered prisoner" theory doesn't really fit with the facts whilst the natural force theory fits quite well with what is known about ball lightning, the mansi beliefs in "golden orbs" and eye witness accounts of lights very near to the date of the incident.
That's why Ivanov an experienced police investigator favoured it.
N.B. bl is famous for passing through walls, airplane fuselages without leaving any mark. So the bl theory for the dpi could include a fireball entering the tent.
Nigel Evans 30-10-2016 10:51 (GMT)
Expert - My understanding is that Ivanov stressed that he didn't mean UFOs = alien ships, but UFOs = fireballs. My wikipedia link below describes ball lightning behaviour that explains the dpi facts - fatal contact, explosions. Just shows that you should never believe anything you read in newspapers.
Imo there's no need to link ball lightning with ufo = aliens, bl is almost certainly a natural phenomenon that our science is yet to explain.
Expert 29-10-2016 17:33 (GMT)
all possibility were limited in my thought.
The attack of Military or Extraterrestrial
Expert 29-10-2016 17:17 (GMT)

Something was coming towards tent exit.
Or .. ..
They were listening to threaten sound(like gun shooting sound)
They were listening to threatening sound (like gun shooting sound )

They thought their urgent weapon ( knife , ass ) were useless to something.
They choose ''just run ''

Something would stay near tent, which would made them not come back

The distance between tent and them is over 1.5 km.
But it seems that they could watch something because something stayed in bright light.

Expert 29-10-2016 16:42 (GMT)
to _CE399_
i don't think something was Yuri Yudin . because investigators already would suspect and investigate him on what he then did or where he then stayed.
And if he was killer, he would steel clues like diary, camera.

Frank Black 25-10-2016 19:27 (GMT)
Best web site I've seen so far with very comprehensive injury information. I don't believe in a Yeti, UFO or any of that paranormal crap. There is only one kind of animal that can inflict that kind of damage to those young people- MAN. Military security, regular Army whatever but I believe it was other humans. I know that it might take some of the "lunatic fringe" mystery out of it but really a Yeti, be serious. Look at the autopsy data, some of those kids had the crap beaten out of them. You have to look at this logically plus 9 intelligent educated young people lost there lives possibly because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Cat 25-10-2016 18:29 (GMT)
I still do not buy the avalanche theory. I'm no expert and certainly I am very new to the Dyatlov Incident but if there was an avalanche why on earth would someone stop running and walk and it seems an orderly walk at that!
As for having a camera cocked, yes that is one of the first things you are taught to not waste film but eventually you do for quick shooting also you can load film carefully to get an extra few frames so really there is nothing unusual about that fact.
Nigel Evans 25-10-2016 17:56 (GMT)
My thoughts todate :-

1. Their boots were stacked in the front corner inside the tent but something made them flee into -25C so quickly (by slitting the tent open in the diagonally opposite corner) that they didn't (couldn't?) pick them up.

2. But this something didn't curtail lighting a fire 1500 metres away. Imo this considerably narrows the possible causes to :-
2a. prisoners of persons that didn't leave any detectable footprints.
2b. a perceived danger but not one with intelligence (human or animal), that would detect the fire and come after them.
N.B. the numerous slits in the tent together with a camera on a tripod and SZ's secret camera favours (2b) imo. They were observing something.

3. The victims of weapon testing testing theory is counter to the facts. The soviet authorities investigated the case very thoroughly. Ivanov's police team was complemented by a KGB team, alpine experts and helicopters. Some of the dpi group had worked in top secret establishments and SZ was almost certainly a KGB "minder", so defection was a worry for the state, but all that effort is hardly necessary if the state already knew the cause. It is possible that the expense was to ensure that all the bodies were accounted for (no defection) but the ravine four took three months to discover which makes the case that the authorities could have just waited for the spring thaw if they already knew the cause. I find it easy to say that it was not weapons testing.

4. If so it was either a "natural force" or murder. The injuries of the ravine 4 are very difficult to explain as murder. LD's rib cage on the RHS has two fracture lines under the armpit but none in the lower half. The pathologist's opinion seems reasonable that this profile is of strong and localised kinetic energy such as a car accident or the shockwave from a bomb. SZ's injuries are very similar in this regard, his rib cage on the RHS breaking along two seperate lines, imo this fits better with a single event (explosion) than two seperate murder events. As said below the lack of bruising can be explained by the cold and LD's tongue and stomach blood can be explained by her biting her tongue badly, swallowing some blood as she died with the wound attracting predation (e.g. water snails). However the completeness of the tongue removal including supporting muscle echoes one of the injuries found in cattle mutilations - "empty mouth cavity". A pity the pathologist didn't go into more detail here.

5. Although the pathologist recorded most of the other deaths as hypothermia this is contrary to modern opinion (full bladder) and only ID displays the classic symptoms. YD and YK could have died from afterflow but that still leaves RS and ZK as "warm when they stopped moving", RS had a skull fracture but ZK is the hardest to explain.

6. YK had a massive burn on his lower left leg and foot (30cm x 10cm). This could be due to several reasons, loss of conciousness when too close to the fire, torture but also electrocution.

7. It was observed by the rescue party that tree tops were burnt.

8. The rescue party observed "lights" and reliable eye witnesses recorded lights a week after the fatalities are presumed to have taken place. One of these reliable witnesses talked of two explosions.

9 Radiation was found on some of the clothing, this could be from investigating mining activity on the journey or from the fatal event. However a water test suggested that the initial exposure could have been quite high and there are observations of the clothing exhibiting a purple glow. The helicopter pilots only flew the ravine four after being threatened by a superior officer at gun point (they wanted to wait for lead coffins).

10. The local native people had no doubts as to the cause - goldern orbs.

11. Ivanov wanted his report to state the cause of death was due to "fireballs" but he was overruled and forced to state a more general conclusion - "unknown and compelling force". Crucially in order to support this change in direction material was removed from the report. This can only be because it supported the fireball theory, n.b. there are no entries in the diary after leaving the base camp....

12. There are numerous photos taken from the cameras that seem to show nothing unless highly magnified and then a ball of light can be seen. Some of the observations of lights talk of concentric rings with a point source (star) in the centre. I don't know what 1959 photographic film was capable of but maybe the human eye can detect light wave lengths that are not detected by the film?..


Nigel Evans 24-10-2016 12:58 (GMT)
Expert - and then they lit a fire?
Robs 22-10-2016 09:51 (GMT)
If the autopsy is to be believed and there are no external injuries then then only explanation is crushing like from an avalanche. I am not skilled in this area but that would be my explanation. BUT and this is a bit BUT I don't believe the evidence reported because none of it makes sense.
No external injuries even though multiple ribs broken
Walking in single file from tent even though seemed to exit in absolute panic with no clothes
Multiple injuries such as crushed skulls
The ravine 4 seemed to be there for a while even setting up a temporary camp.
The only thing that makes sense is that they were either high jacked at least to start with
Nigel Evans 20-10-2016 17:48 (GMT)
CE399 re your comment that their injuries are not consistent with ball lightning.

I must disagree, bl is documented as being explosive and the burns could be via electrical discharge also well documented.
BL is in my opinion the best explanation of the established facts.
Nigel Evans 20-10-2016 15:22 (GMT)
CE39 when the clothes were removed from the bodies and hung up there were observations of a "purple glow". I'd agree that the water test doesn't prove anything. N.B. when the ravine four were to be moved by helicopter the pilots initially refused to take them until lead coffins were provided. Could be that they knew something that never made the report?
kkz 20-10-2016 15:09 (GMT)
Well I don't think Yuri Yudin has to do anything with the deaths. I mean come on. If he was was the assasin, he must have secretly follow the hikers for days, carrying his own tent and stuff. Or he was with others? Again: a group must have follow then the hikers for days - and there's no evidence of a camp anywhere near.
Also if they we're following the group in a great distance, so they couldn't notice them, they wouldn't end up, where the group had ended, because that place wasn't on the original route. (Yuri Yudin was surprised where they have found the bodies.)
Also it's highly unlikely that a killer, or a killer group travels for days in the snowy mountains just to kill a group then travel back for days. (Yeah, you can say, they killed them there, because it's so far out, that people won't find the bodies. But they did. And the killer must have know they will eventually.)
If Yudin was the killer, he wouldn't leave the group at all - he just would went with them, and kill them in their sleep or something.
Also Svetlana Oss's book mentions that Yudin was collecting minerals this time with other students, and there are student diaries to prove this. Also Yuri Yudin being the killer explains nothing about the strange circumstances, that made Dyatlov pass incident a mistery. (Strange lights, radioactivity, missing tongue, etc.)
Yuri Yudin's alibi, motives and whereabouts been fully examined?
Not at all.
Is there any evidence against him?
Nope.
_CE399_ 20-10-2016 13:22 (GMT)
Nigel Evans, regarding fireballs and prisoners:

I lived and worked in Laplandia which extends over the northernmost quarter of Norway, Sweden and Finland and an equivalent area of Russia. And that is why I am interested in the Dyatlov incident.

Because one of the most esoteric theories is that one or more of the group was planning to defect to Norway. I think that theory is silly nonsense but it turned my head one day and caused me to take an interest in the Dyatlov event.

Ball lightning, fireballs, starbursts, skylights, "night suns", daylight bright & lingering meteorite storms, highly localized aurora borealis events, and other light and sound presentations happen all the time in the valleys and ravines of the sub-polar arctic regions.

Members of the Dyatlov party would have been very familiar with the northern lights and various types of light and sound events. They would have found the fireballs interesting and noteworthy that were supposed to have occurred on the night of their demise. But no "fireball" would have sent them into a panic.

Their injuries are not consistent with any kind of ball lighting or fireball.

Escaped prisoners would not have ventured into that river valley. And if they did, why didn't they take any possessions or supplies that would have been crucial to their own survival.

No, the prisoner theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

But a theory that the Mansi did it or something to cause it is viable.

Like the Mansi, the indigenous Laplanders have a scary sounding name for every unsafe pass or accident prone traverse like "valley of doom", "Mountain of no return" and yes, a lot of "Dead Mountains" or more accurately "Mountain where stupid people die who don't take good advice".

Laplanders are peculiar people in the sense that they do not come across as your enemy but they are certainly not your friend either.
_CE399_ 20-10-2016 11:54 (GMT)
Regarding radiation sickness or directed energy weapons being involved in any way with the Dyatlov group:

Although both are real, neither has any basis for being included in the contributing factors of the causes for the group abandoning their shelter and supplies or the injuries they sustained.

Radiation is abundant in nature, especially in the Urals region where the Dyatlov incident occurred. The group had visited abandoned campsites and villages where geological assays had been conducted. In 1959 in the Soviet Union, geological assays consisted of obtaining surface and core samples at various depths and compiling a statistical report of the likelihood of the amount of each of the metals and minerals found in the area being explored. In the 1940s and '50s uranium and other naturally occurring radioactive elements were of utmost interest.

The group photographed themselves handling discarded core samples and hanging around the buildings and structures of the abandoned geological research facilities.

The amount of radiation detected on some of the clothing was consistent with what would be expected of people who were essentially kicking around in the dirt in that area.

Radiation testing was unofficial, its accuracy unknown and it was an extremely shallow sample from only a fraction of the clothing and possessions. Most of the clothing, bodies and possessions of the group were never tested.

Just about every book, movie, documentary, video and blog fallaciously states "high levels of radiation were found on the clothing [and/or] bodies". This unfounded assertion is used to launch innumerable theories radiation caused group panic and all of the injuries--especially oozing gray foam and discolored skin.

But there is no evidence the group was exposed to any radiation in any significant degree and even if they were, it is unlikely they would have fallen ill when they the did, and in fact did not just get ill but died.

Radiation was not a significant factor in the event.

Directed Energy Weapons have existed on a large scale since at least Sept 11. 2001 when DEWs of some sort destroyed the World Trade Center buildings (all seven of them, not just he towers.)

In 1959, the only directed energy weapon of any military value was microwave transmitters.
Nigel Evans 20-10-2016 10:43 (GMT)
CE399 hi, I think there are only two theories that are credible, Ivanov's fireballs or prisoners. I'm with Ivanov and the shockwave from a bomb theory.
Interesting that you've been in the artic circle.
What I've read about hypothermia is that as the body constricts blood flow to the limbs etc the reduced volume results in increased pressure which the body control's by offloading fluid into the bladder via the kidneys. Concurrent to this the victims mental faculties are highly diminished (no urination). So a full bladder =1000ml is almost guaranteed in hypo deaths. Only ID displayed this.
_CE399_ 20-10-2016 10:07 (GMT)
To illustrate the gross inaccuracies of the science that has been the basis of the most popular conclusions regarding the Dyatlov incident:
<<==
Patient G., thirty-three years old, was admitted to the hospital on 23 January 1964. A doctor picked him up off the street, hesitating as he debated whether to take him to a morgue or a hospital, and ‘just in case’ decided to bring him to a clinic. The limbs [of the body] were bent at the joints and could not be straightened out – the body was ‘stiff’. The rectal temperature was below 0C. Heartbeat, breathing and reflexes were completely absent. Direct cardiac massage and intra transfusion were started. After twenty-five minutes, there was ventricular fibrillation of the heart. After forty minutes, breathing appeared. After fifty minutes, weak contractions of the heart began. After three hours and twenty-five minutes, the patient regained consciousness and started to talk. He remembered that having finished work, he drank 750 grams of vodka and went home. The air temperature was -29C. He had been lying on the street for seven hours. There was no evidence of damage to the central nervous system (CNS), and one year later the patient’s condition remained good.

Excerpt from "Death by Hypothermia" (1977) by V.P. Desyatov as quoted in Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (Kindle Locations 1565-1568). . Kindle Edition.
==>>

Conclusions based on the coroner's reports of the presentations on the skin and other external components of the Dyatlov victims bodies along with all other declarations of the coroner's reports regarding causes of death can be summarily disregarded.

The above book "Don't Go There: Post Mortem" by Svetlana Oss provides conclusive evidence and argumentative reasoning for essentially throwing out every officially documented conclusion of the medical examinations. Only the raw data and observations--insofar as they can be determined to be sufficiently objective--can be used to form any hypothesis that have a chance of surviving a test against the significant amount of verifiable evidence, most of which is no longer extant.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 20:09 (GMT)
Comment to all previous posts:

1. Zina Kolmogorova's postion at death is not mysterious at all. Zina was romantically involved with both of the men whose bodies were closest to her body. The group had split up at some point with some of them forming an expedition to try to get back to the tent. The "tent" subgroup was Zina, Dyatlov and Slobodin. Zina was the best clothed, strong and athletic but had been struck in the side and back with something resembling a baton (or butt of a rifle). She made it the furthest of any in the "tent" expedition but of course, succumbed to hypothermia. The "tent" expedition was ill-fated because no one was properly clothed and all had sustained injuries and expended too much energy most likely fighting off their attacker(s).

2. The attacker(s) killed Thibeaux-Brignolles most likely because he tried to be heroic in trying to defend the girl in the group who was closest to him in age. His injuries are consistent with an impulsive young man who is killed by a much more experienced fighter wielding a long, hard object like a baton, rod or rifle. Zina's injuries are also consistent with such a weapon and more closely match what a male assailant who was an experienced fighter would do to woman who tried to attack him.

3. Regarding the so-called "lack of external injuries". The medical examiners were mediocre. All of the victims were experiencing various stages of advancing hypothermia when they sustained injuries. Bruising is not seen because blood flow is retracted from the skin of a hypothermic person. The body concentrates blood into the vital organs when it becomes hypothermic. I have personally experienced this happening very rapidly and very acutely. A cut on hypothermic skin that is shockingly deep may not bleed at all. In a particular episode of M*A*S*H a patient is said to have survived because he was "frozen" and would have bleed to death in warmer weather. The television series was known for its on-set medical advisors who took real accounts of combat from the Korean War and adapted them accurately for the show. The only thing that is not entirely accurate about the episode is that the soldier was not "frozen" because freezing kills tissue and bursts vessels. The soldier was hypothermic and his blood flow was restricted so much to the area of the wound that it did not bleed. The noticeable lack of "external injuries" is due to hypothermia. Remember, people are quite conscious and alive when their bodies begin to react to hypothermia.

4. I have lived a number of years above the Arctic Circle. Lights, fireballs, and other strange luminescent events are common. People in the lower latitudes only know about "the Northern Lights" but there is a whole range of strange and spectacular things that happen at the higher latitudes. And it's not all lights either. Sound events often occur too, with and without lights. I have heard and seen things that I would think were alien ships wizzing by or crashing if I wasn't an engineer with a physics education. The amount of energy deflected and channeled by the earth's magnetic field is enormous and causes all sorts of light and sound shows at the higher latitudes.

Everyone wants to treat the fireball events seen around the time of the Dyatlov tragedy as special. Sorry, that sort of thing is not special at all. Go spend a couple winters up there and you'll see. I have. And I am not impressed at all by the stories. They are as common as hurricanes in Florida. Sure, some are bigger than others and some seasons have few and others a lot. But what was seen was not unique.

If you take any story in isolation, it can be made out to be a spectacular or strange occurrence.

How many accounts of the Dyatlov incident mention that the lights in the sky seen at that time were also seen before and after that day for many days and from year-to-year? And none of the witness accounts of the "halos" are certain to have occurred exactly on the day when the group perished which is another issue.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 19:21 (GMT)
Comment to Robs:
Group infighting does not explain the hurried exit from the tent unless someone pulled a gun on the rest of the group. Or say, grabbed Lyuda and threatened to slit her throat if the rest of the group didn't do as he said.

Zolotaryov had the most unstable personal life going into the trip. He was a serial job-hopper. That is often a sign of an acute personality or psychological disorder that suddenly erupts. He was a loner and from a culture that almost required marriage yet remained unmarried at an age that was considered too old.

Zolotaryov had strange tattoos which are not that unusual for hardcore Soviet military men except that they were too cryptic in way that was not normal.

Zolotaryov was a Cossack from a group that was 97% wiped out by Stalin's genocide. He survived by joining the Soviet army and proving himself loyal to them. To abandon your familial heritage and join the enemy has to mean something is askew or will go askew with you psychologically at some point. And Zolotaryov had a very askew career and personal life.

Zolotaryov was an unvetted outsider with a very suspicious past that included World War II service where Soviet soldiers committed genocide, murder, torture and rape on a scale that certainly touched his experience if not fully involved him.

I would agree that infighting could have been what happened if Zolotaryov had not suffered the same violent death as Lyuda.

Zolotaryov was well clothed when he died of internal trauma. The rather mediocre coroners said there were no "external signs of injury" i.e. bruising to match the cracked ribs. This has been mistakenly attributed as evidence that the "overwhelming force" was some mysterious electromagnetic beam weapon.

Every other member of the group had a lengthy history with each other that rules out any of them as being involved in a fatal infighting incident.

Only Zolotaryov could have been the cause of an infighting conflict that drove them to their deaths. His background paints a very troubled person. But nothing that indicates he was a sociopath.

The biggest problem with trying to pin it on Zolotaryov is that he died with the other victims in a way that could not have been self-inflicted. And there just isn't another person who can be fingered with any reasonable degree of evidence. The group was also nearer the beginning of the trip than the end. Nerves get frayed during an expedition of several days but the group had not been traveling in the wilderness as a group, out of contact with the rest of the world, for more than four days. And they had not encountered any significant difficulties that would accelerate interpersonal tensions.

Someone from the outside attacked the group and did so for reasons that were personal and excluded most of the group.

Because Lyuda was so viciously attacked and two other men with her were killed violently, the most logical scenario is that the attacker(s) drove the group suddenly out of the tent.

At some point, some of them fought back and escaped. Some of them were seriously injured in the process and all were too weak and vulnerable to survive which would explain why the attacker(s) did not pursue them.

A person improperly clothed in a storm at -25 Celsius isn't going to survive the night. The escapees tried to get a fire going and climbed a tree to see where they were --strong evidence that they were driven from the tent by an attacker and not a fireball. If they had had a choice of where to flee, they would have headed toward the larger river, main path and their storage cache by the abandoned campsite.

Some of the escapees tried to get back to the tent and some stayed with the fire. Those who stayed with the fire were burned because that is what happens when the fire is too small and the weather too cold.

The clothing was not taken off of dead bodies, it was ordered to be given to the subgroup that the attacker was most interested in dealing with. People just assume the clothing of some of the victims was removed by their comrades after they died. In a hostage scenario the possibilities include clothing being ordered to be removed.

Because Zolotaryov was wearing Lyuda's hat and because his injuries would have left him alive for minutes or hours, it is logical to imagine that the assailant injured Zolotaryov first. Lyuda then, seeing him injured took compassion on him and gave him her hat. This likely took place in "the den" where Lyuda would have been out of the wind and could have survived without a hat.

The assailant then attacked Lyuda, perhaps it was because she showed compassion for Zolotaryov. Her injuries are consistent with someone acting out of anger and not as part of a fistfight.

The assailant then left the group after seeing that all of them were dead.

Doing such a thing was crazy stupid illogical and irrational but most crimes of passion are.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 18:17 (GMT)
Q14. What is the most likely scenario that explains how the group died?
A14. Yuri Yudin either attacked the group or was an accomplice of the attacker(s). He left prematurely and his alibi is unverified. Yuri Yudin is seen in photos to be most affectionate with Ludya who was the target of the greatest violence. He therefore had romantic motive.

An attacker or attackers stalked the group from the moment they left the last town. The best opportunity for attacking the group was just before they began their ascent of the mountain. They would be furthest form civilization but not yet away from cover that allowed the stalker(s) to remain hidden.

The attacker(s) approached the tent and made demands that caused all or some of the members inside the tent to cut the tent in an attempt to flee from the threat at the opening. The lack of space and urgency of the situation did not allow anyone to gather up any supplies or clothing.

The assailant(s) forced the team to march down the hill toward the cover of the trees. The choice of going toward the small river and off the main path by the big river indicates the assailant(s) wanted privacy.

The objective was to confront one or more members of the team.

Yuri Yudin or someone he was assisting had a personal, likely romantic matter to resolve with Lyuda. She was the last to die and it was a viscous beating that killed her.

The person who received the next most violent beating was Zolotaryov. He was the likely usurper who received punishment for either being romantically or sexually involved with Lyuda. The autopsy report on Lyuda does not mention sexual activity as it does on Kolmogorova.

The mystery of why Zolotaryov joined the group is explained if he had a romantic interest in Lyuda.

This would also explain the suspicious coincidence of Yuri Yudin's departure from the group upon the arrival of Zolotaryov into the group.

And lastly, Yuri Yudin is the sole source of the one detail that delayed rescue operations claiming that Dyatlov told him they would be a few days later than expected.

Yuri Yudin's motives, opportunities and alibi were never fully investigated and he remains the No.1 suspect.
Robs 19-10-2016 17:38 (GMT)
Comment to CE
I agree that this is more likely than any other ideas.
They needed to leave he tent instantly I don't believe Ball lightening would do this. The tent had slits at eye level so they were looking out the tent for some reason. They could have been marched out fought and the group had a chance to run and split up. I still think that it could have been in fighting between the group. I just don't see the BL theory at all.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 16:40 (GMT)
Q9. What scenario explains some of the members suffering physical trauma inflicted by an assailant yet the injured and uninjured remain together after the conflict?
A9. An assailant from outside the group of injured and uninjured is the only explanation. If you are violently attacked or witness someone near you being violently attacked, you flee from the attacker. The uninjured and injured members of the Dyatlov group remain together, therefore the attacker was not among them.
Q10. Could the attacks have been a subgroup since there are three location groupings where the bodies were found?
A10. No. The uninjured appeared to have died before the injured. If a subgroup and attacked another subgroup, it would be the attackers who survived longest, not the victims.
Q11. Were any of the group involved romantically?
A11. Yes, very much so. Kolmogorova was involved with at least two of the men prior to the trip.
Q12. Was Lyuda Dubinina involved with any of the men?
A12. Unknown. Lyuda was the youngest and prettiest of the two. She was only 20 years old and was very extroverted, perhaps even flirtatious.
Q13. What types of scenarios explain a person inflicting an attractive young woman like Lyuda with such violent and severe chest injuries?
A13. Anger and sociopathic behavior. Lyuda sustained an amount of violence that cannot be explained as happening from a fight. The person or persons who fractured her ribs did the same to Zolotaryov who was found near her.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 15:23 (GMT)
Q1. Why cut tent to leave it?
A1. Because the usual opening was blocked and leaving was deemed mortality urgent.
Q2. What urgency could cause such action?
A2. Most logical cause would be an armed and dangerous person blocking normal exit.
Q3. Why would team march down the slope in formation and away from where they had just left their cache of supplies for the return?
A3. Because someone pointing a gun at them forced them to walk away.
Q4. Who would force them away from their shelter but not raid the shelter?
A4. Someone whose interest was not in the possessions of the people but the people themselves.
Q5. Who would have had an interest in the people?
A5. The tenth member who left the group on the pretext of illness.
A6. The most logical of all suspects is Yuri Yudin, the tenth hiker who left the group.
Q7. Is the claim that no one entered the camp supported by the evidence?
A7. No. It is spurious reasoning at best. Although no other footprints were found, the absence of footprints proves nothing but an absence of footprints. Snow shoes would leave no trace that could be seen three weeks later. Yuri Yudin could have returned, perhaps with accomplices, wearing snow shoes and left no evidence of their presence.
Q8. Has Yuri Yudin's alibi, motives and whereabouts been fully examined?
A8. Not at all.
HK 17-10-2016 20:49 (GMT)
Who is the Author?
Nigel Evans 13-10-2016 11:41 (GMT)
Well this site has a photo of LD's chest (may she rip), most of her ribs were found to be snapped with one penetrating the heart. No bruises can be seen or were recorded except one on her thigh.

Eye witness accounts of lights and explosions near to the assumed date of the event.

Ergo the ravine four died from an explosion....

The only explanations i can think of for the close grouping of the "returning three" is acute radiation sickness or deep snow. An ARS theory requires the symptoms to be missed by the pathologist. Skiing off piste i've fallen into loose snow that was chest height in depth and no one could walk/crawl through that quickly. But two of them didn't die of hypothermia? RS was warm when hestopped moving (could be the skull fracture) but ZK is the most difficult one to explain, she was relatively well dressed?

Robs 12-10-2016 08:03 (GMT)
I agree the 3 were coming from somewhere else maybe the ravine?
How accurate were autopsies back in 1959?
What I mean is some of the bodies was not found for months, how can they say that they had no visual evidence of impact injuries ?
Nigel Evans 11-10-2016 14:17 (GMT)
Robs> for me the close grouping of these three is one of the big questions. They are clearly in transit (no camp or den) presumably returning to the tent but they all stop walking/crawling within about 200 metres of each other. Weird.
Given that the terrain would take them off course (seeking the easiest path) i don't think their actual position relative to the tent or the cedar is very relevant. We can't know. Also somne maps show them taking the shortest route with others having them elaewhere?

But we do know that they all perished so close to each other and that cannot be easily explained imo. Also only ID showed clear signs of hypothermia.
Robs 11-10-2016 10:07 (GMT)
Why do we think that they never returned to the tent ? A few options.
Couldn't find it (why not just retrace steps)
Something was stopping them
They were terrified

Also the 3 that were found trying to return seemed to be off course and not setting off from the tree. This means they were elsewhere when heading for the tent.
Any ideas?
Nigel Evans 05-10-2016 17:53 (GMT)
>RPGStylee, the wind conditions are a bit of a mystery, from memory the locals reported extremely high winds but all the relevant weather stations reported nothing unusual. The last photo of them making camp suggest whiteout conditions, i.e. possibly high winds.
Nigel Evans 05-10-2016 17:48 (GMT)
>Robs, it maybe you have little experience of alpline conditions, like skiing?

What happens on snowy hills/mountains is that depending on the attitude of the ground to the sun, there is variable freeze/thaw were the sun melts the snow during the day and then it refreezes at night. These areas can be be like glass and difficult even for correct footwear. Skiers sometimes describe them as "boilerplate".
Further to this, these areas can then be hidden by light snowfall.
So nobody runs down snowy mountains unless they've got spiked footwear and not in the dark of night.
Indeed it maybe that the group deliberately went northeast towards the cedar rather than southeast to the base camp because the north face is always easier wrt to freeze/thaw. ID's last diary entry mentioned how icy the conditions could be away from the river. These conditions might be the cause of most of the cuts, bruising and even head fractures as they repeatedly fell over.

I've been googling around hypothermia today and come across "after flow". What happens with hypothermia is that the body restricts blood flow to the limbs in order to protect the core temperature. When a hypothermic patient is warmed up there is a risk that the body relaxes this restriction too quickly and the (relatively) cold blood in the limbs rushes into the core and the patient dies of the shock. Apparently the correct approach is to increase the temp of the trunk without warming the limbs at all, via drinks and hot stones, clothing etc.
So given that YD and YK had charred digits and burns there as a possible explanation for their early death, i.e. they sat too close to the fire and warmed up their limbs instead of their core.
RPGStylee 05-10-2016 16:53 (GMT)
It may be that they wanted to run but couldn't because of high winds and poor visibility. What was the weather like on the night?
Robs 05-10-2016 16:25 (GMT)
Nigel, I know what the report says but im wondering your opinion. Further down the slope the report says they seemed to be walking. This doesn't make any sense what so ever. They leave the tent in a panic with no clothes (or very little) and then walk to the trees. If they are walking (obviously not panicked) why not turn around and walk back to the tent? I guess he question I'm asking why not walk back to the tent what was stopping them? Are we assuming BL stayed above the tent stopping them? Then moved down and killed the remaining four?
Nigel Evans 05-10-2016 12:30 (GMT)
>Robs. Nope, as said before, the only evidence of their footprints is further down the slope and they seem to be walking.
Robs 05-10-2016 10:47 (GMT)
So you agree that they ran from the tent and didn't walk to the tree line? So if you agree then you must question the findings that they walked in single file because it isn't true.
Nigel Evans 05-10-2016 10:32 (GMT)
Robs> i'd agree that leaving the tent so urgently and unable to return but comfortable with lighting a fire 1500 metres away must rule out a lot of possible threats. Unless they were prisoners the threat cannot be human or animal imo.
As an aside i've been rereading Svetlana Oss's book and it appears that medical science has moved on since 1959. Specifically she passed the pathology findings to an expert in hypothermia and his opinion is that many of the original findings are confusing the effects of post death freezing with cause of death and it's probable that only ID died of hypothermia.
Robs 05-10-2016 05:11 (GMT)
They lit the camp fire because they were dying threat or no treat they had no other option. They were too scared to return to the tent at that time for what ever reason. We have to agree that they left in panic and ran to the tree line. Or were forced out of the tent and walked there is no other explanation unless you can explain it. This is the most important part of the mystery.
Nigel Evans 04-10-2016 21:23 (GMT)
Robs> the photos of the footprints (under TENT) do seem to be of normal walking, not running. Bear in mind that there were no footprints immediately near the tent and those photographed are somewhat further on.
So inconclusive imo. N.B they were sufficiently relaxed about the threat to light a campfire at the cedar...
Robs 04-10-2016 21:04 (GMT)
So that is exactly my point. The report said they walked to the tree line. I thought we all agreed that didn't happen and they must have ran. You don't cur your way out of the tent (obviously in a panic) leave with no or little clothing (obviously in a panic) in minus 20+ and then walk in single file to the tree line. So we either agree with the report and they walked or we don't agree in that they ran.
Nigel Evans 04-10-2016 19:25 (GMT)
>Robs and all BL doubters.

From Svetana Oss's book, a report from the Tagil Worker Feb 7th 1959.
Yesterday at 6.55 am local time, to the south-east, at an angle of twenty degrees above the horizon, a bright globe appeared about moon sized. Around 7am, inside of this globe, there was some sort of explosion and a very bright core of this globe became visible, which started to glow more intensely, and around it appeared a cloud. Then the cloud dissolved in the whole eastern part of the sky. Soon after this a second explosion took place, and it resembled the crescent of a moon, gradually the cloud was glowing and in the centre of it remained the bright spot.
- A. Kissel Deputy Head of Vysokogorny Colliery.
The same event was reported by another group.
There are other similar reports on the 15th and 31st of March.

Also i'm not aware of a finding that they ran from the tent, all i've seen is that they walked.
Robs 04-10-2016 17:50 (GMT)
These were scientific professionals not your average man off the street. Something happened in the or around the tent that made 9 people panic and evacuate the tent under extreme pressure. Knowing it was minus 20+ they left without clothing and equipment. We already agreed that they ran from the tent not walked so that already falsified the report saying they walked in single file. I see no evidence of BL or the phonomia of the low wave sounds that "send people mad". The BL to strike in 3 different locations and kill multiple persons is at best highly unlikely. We are missing something if they didn't read the tracks correctly as mentioned above then they could have missed other things in my opinion
Nigel Evans 04-10-2016 16:33 (GMT)
RPGStylee > yes, the stove was on the floor of the tent and they stored excess material in the hut as they were about to ascend the hills and only took what was needed. My errors.

However lighthearted Happy i can't agree wrt the drug theory, they setup camp by the cedar, stripped the bodies of clothing and then created the den in the ravine. All sensible organised behaviour which would seem to rule out "crazy people".

Re metal - you're right that the BL theory requires multiple events 1500 metres apart. So hence a theory that the group attracted it somehow.

There seems to be an empirical connection between BL and ionised air (lightning strikes + more frequent reports at altitude). Maybe also spinning ionised air (foo fighters, dust storms).

The post wrt Hesdalen lights waa mine. I think the connection with latitude is interesting. We're sitting on the crust of a big ball of molten rock whose centre is a big ball of molten iron. This molten iron presumably has currents, coriolis force, convection etc. Perhaps this can create a local concentration of energy as yet unknown to science that manifests as lights, BL etc. Maybe explains cattle mutilations. Maybe the metal in mammalian bodies acts as a catalyst.... Happy.
Tunguska is also at the same latitude, but an explanation for that has to include some form of bolide but cannot be fully explained by just that. A geomotor theory would fit in with my thoughts above.
RPGStylee 04-10-2016 14:49 (GMT)
>Nigel Evans

I'm sure it was found on the floor of the tent, but it wasn't set up.
I'm not sure about the metal content of the body, but it can't be enough to be the preferred path for a discharge of electrical energy considering all metals in the body make up less than 1% of the mass.

As for the drug theory, it makes about as much sense as anything at this point. I was just joking around haha.

A more serious theory I've been thinking of is that ball lightning and other 'lights' might be caused by cosmic or solar radiation interacting with the atmosphere and the magnetic field. A sudden and intense bombardment of cosmic ray particles could saturate the area with BL, and ultra high energy particles could have caused the 'explosion' that fatally injured the 4 in the ravine. Someone else in the comments has mentioned the Hessdalen lights, and that they are at essentially the same latitude as Dyatlov pass. They may have the same cause. AFAIK the lights only ever appear at night. They way the particles might interact could send them careening around the earth to the night side where they then filter down through the atmosphere.
Nigel Evans 03-10-2016 20:43 (GMT)
>RPGStylee

I think they left the stove at the base camp. N.B. the existence of the base camp suggests the trip up the hill was a diversion with a purpose.
The luxury with BL is as science can't explain it, it can be stretched to fit the theory, so maybe there is enough metal content within nine bodies ~(blood = iron, liver = copper, etc etc) to attract over 1500 meters.
Well if they ran after a trippy member why didn't they run back again when their feet got cold?
It does look like they had to escape the tent region and then used the cedar as a lookout to observe the same area.

I don't think they were sent there, just decided to do it out of interest, perhaps sought permission and SZ was attached to the group to report to the KGB. His death triggered the high investment in the investigation imo.
RPGStylee 03-10-2016 19:44 (GMT)
Ahh yeah. I suppose tent damage is something they would be well prepared for. Problem is Ivanov specifically said fire balls were spotted in the area during the investigation, which is why I would think there would be some sort of burning or intense heat. I suppose it's possible that there were both 'cold' and 'hot' ball lightning occurring over(?) the area. I don't think it entered the tent though. I think it's more likely that if it did it would have discharged into the stove since it is more conductive and it was closer to the ground(it was on the floor).

Ball lightning can't be an explanation by itself in my opinion. It would be an extraordinary chain of events for them to be forced out of the tent by ball lightning, then for it to appear again 1.5 km away at the top of the cedar that two of the group members happened to have climbed, then appeared again in a ravine 75 m away. It also doesn't account for the radiation either. It could have been just pure bad luck, but I doubt the chances of such a scenario occurring.
It must have been a multitude of events that lead to their deaths, but that would also be an extraordinary circumstance. Maybe they really were just that unlucky.

I'm not sure about them being sent there to study BL. I think the military would have kept better contact and/or conducted a search&rescue mission as soon as they failed to report back, and not wait 2 weeks for the families to complain. If I were in their position I would be sweating at the collar as soon as I found out top students have gone missing, one of which had worked in the nuclear program and another that seemed to do some shady work for the government.

The more I look into it the less progress I seem to be making. Maybe they all took drugs or something and went wild. Old Semen was like,

"hey you kids, this is the stuff that got me through the war, you want to try yes?"

They then went all crazy and one of them started tripping heavily, got spooked and just slashed his way out of the tent, then the rest ran after him or something.
Nigel Evans 03-10-2016 17:27 (GMT)
>RPGStylee. Ball lightning doesn't have to scorch. It is famous for passing through material without leaving any mark - e.g. windows, airplane fuselages. N.B. it's equally famous for damaging material including human tissue... it all depends.
So i don't see a connection with the slits as >kmr says. Imo they were quite ok with cutting slits and then repairing them, they were using the tent as an observation station protected from the elements, keeping cameras free of snow including loading film.
My theory is that they knew about the lights and intentionally went there to observe them as part of the trip and diary entries wrt this have been deleted.

Robs> my theory is that they exited so quickly because the BL came very close or even entered the tent (without leaving a trace). The first two to die - YD and YK had burns, charred digits and signs of a pulmonary edema. All of these injuries can be caused by electrocution.

So it's possible the BL entered the tent without leaving a mark, discharged into YD/YK and forced everyone out asap. Although these two could make their way down the mountain they died quickly afterwards weakened by this event, N.B although YD had frostbite but his urine level doesn't fit with hypothermia, he might have died from something else.


Robs 03-10-2016 16:36 (GMT)
I think if we ever found out why they exited the the tent then I'm sure the rest would fall into place. For me it is the key to everything. Although it say the tracks were walking towards the forest I don't believe that bit unless they were hijacked somehow. Why cut the tent to exit quickly take no shoes and then walk to the Forrest it doesn't make sense. Then either ran for cover which I believe or we're forced to. What do you guys think?
kmr 03-10-2016 15:20 (GMT)
>RPGStylee I remember that Zina Kolmogorova mentioned in her diary, that she sewed the tent at one point during the trip - so what I'm saying cuts, damages in the tent fabric wasn't too big deal for them I belive - I don't think they we're so afraid to damage their own tent, if they make a cut, they just sew it back together. If something's out there, that scares you and could even hurt you, so you don't wanna go out, till you know what it is, the best option for even experienced adventurers too to make a cut, look out, and later you can sew together that cut.
RPGStylee 03-10-2016 11:32 (GMT)
>Nigel Evans

I doubt they'd intentionally damage their only tent regardless of how old it was. I suppose it could be possible, if Ivanov's account of ball lightning or 'fire balls' is to be believed, that the group made the slits to avoid being scorched by the heat. However as far as we know there were no scorch marks on the tent and no signs of melting in the area around the tent. There are photographs of the camp site and the tent that don't show any signs of scorching or melting, but of course there is an entire side of the tent that has no known photographs taken of it. However the problem with that is the side of the tent with the slits in was photographed. This doesn't fit with the 'fire balls' he described because if the slits were made with the intention of observing a 'fire ball', there would be burn marks on the side of the tent with the slits. He also said that some of the trees were burnt too but there are no photographs of that.
Of course, the information may have been removed from the final report for an unknown reason. I personally don't think it was a cover up of anything shady. I think the authorities were just as baffled as everyone else and hid the information to avoid embarrassment(At least with the nuclear disaster in 57 they would have been able to figure out a cause).
They were too confused by whatever the events were to come up with a solid conclusion. This is obviously bad for the Soviet Union's image. The cause of death(hypothermia) was probably decided upon to give the families of the deceased some sort of closure, keeping them quiet.

The problem with this incident is that there is lots of information, but not enough key pieces of information to go on. Perhaps they all just went insane.
Nigel Evans 01-10-2016 12:53 (GMT)
>RPGStylee - good points, but Ivanov had to remove material from his original report in order to comply with orders to change the finding. So it's logical that the material supported his stated view - "it was ball lightning". This removed material was probably diary entries and photographs a view supported by there being a gap in the diary entries.
Wrt slits, cutting your tent to observe something instead of standing outside is unusual but perhaps the tent was old, at end of life and they wanted to observe from inside for an extended period and keep camera lenses clear of snow etc.

If anyone is puzzled why the report was changed, this is what happened to civil servants that displeased the hierarchy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) Later in life Ivanov gave an interview where he expressed his feelings of guilt wrt the report and hiding information from the families of the deceased. This might have included the last thing they ever wrote....
RPGStylee 01-10-2016 00:36 (GMT)
This incident is an extremely intriguing mystery, and I appreciate the effort it took to create such an informative site on the subject.

A couple of things stick out to me that I think haven't been given much attention.
The group made no entries in their diaries at all on their last day alive, only taking pictures with their cameras. Up until this point they at least made an entry about the weather everyday. Now travelling in the open under high wind would mean that they wouldn't be able to write as they went. They didn't write anything in the morning of the final day, and they didn't write anything after they got settled down in the tent for their final night either. Although, you could say that whatever it was that caused them to leave the tent happened while they were in the process of getting ready for bed.
This is out of the ordinary when compared to the previous days. Something happened either in the night or the morning of the 1st that spooked them into silence. This event may also have influenced the decision of Dylatov to go up the slopes of dead mountain rather than make for the pass. Ball lightning has been mentioned by a few in this comment section. It seems a sufficiently odd phenomenon to warrant avoidance by the group, but not frightening enough to a group of well educated individuals to not mention anything at all about it. It's probable that the group would have at least taken pictures of such events. The images may have been on the damaged film in the unknown camera. Unfortunately we may never know.

The other thing that isn't too clear to me is the horizontal eye level slits made in the tent. The simplest answer is that they were made so that the pieces of tent on either side of the large vertical slits would collapse, allowing for a fast and easy exit. From what is unknown. Since I mentioned it previously, it could have been more ball lightning. The problem with that is, it doesn't fit with the slits being made at eye level with the intent of observing the ball lightning, or something else. These are experienced adventurers. If they had wanted to observe something outside of the tent, they would have at least put on a layer of clothes and used the entrance to take a look. I doubt that they would have intentionally created slits in their only tent because of an unexplained light source. I think this lends a little more credence to infra-sound or another startling noise causing them to leave in a hurry rather than anything visual.
Robs 27-09-2016 08:07 (GMT)
Again I think they ran to the tree line. Why walk and not take shoes? It all points to exiting the tent quickly and panicked.
Robs 27-09-2016 08:04 (GMT)
Again it doesn't make sense. Why cut the tent to exit quickly and then walk to the tree line? If they were terrified of the BL why walk to the tree line?
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 20:16 (GMT)
No blood and the footsteps indicate walking down in an orderly manner. Deep snow would help explain how they missed their tracks made coming up.
Robs 26-09-2016 19:34 (GMT)
Do you know if any blood was found in or around the tent? I think you could be on the right lines about hostile. I don't think the snow blew away though
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 18:51 (GMT)
Robs > well it seems that there is no way to prove the timeline regarding the "ravine four" and the "returning three". It's equally possible that the two groups were very hostile to each other and seperated in a different manner, they would have been very upset that they had taken the wrong route from the tent and that two of their party had perished and there are injuries consistent with brawling, there's no way to know. That the returning three all stopped crawling within such a short distance of each other is saying something imo. Unless the snow was deep and subsequently blown away that would explain it.
Robs 26-09-2016 18:08 (GMT)
That is an interesting thought that they all went to the ravine, definitely possible. But I just don't see them leaving the ravine with no clothes (or shoes) to walk back to the tent?
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 17:19 (GMT)
Robs > well the 2 by the fire seem to have been the first to die and their bodies were stripped of clothing and respectfully laid side by side. N.B. a possible explanation of their injuries is falling out of a tree after suffering an electrical discharge from BL. Evidence to support this is that the tree tops were burnt (as were as the bodies).
Regarding the remaining seven my theory would be that they all retired to the ravine to shelter from the wind and built a den out of branches to isolate themselves from the icy ground. The party was sufficiently relaxed about their situation that some of the clothing was left hanging rather than being worn.
Then there was a violent event that created the injuries. My explanation is that ball lightning appeared overhead of some of the party which would have been dispersed (e.g. collecting more branches or perhaps there had been fighting and they'd split into two groups) and then exploded. Those nearest the blast received fatal injuries, those further away were thrown off their feet and received non fatal bruising (i.e. RS and SK, also ID had blood in his mouth).
What's interesting is what happens next :-
1. the remaining three do not appear to stop to recover extra clothing or footwear not even the clothing hanging on branches this suggests that they abandon the site with urgency. Some of the ravine four were very comfortably dressed including footwear (SZ and NTB). N.B. ZK had no footwear, RS had one boot, ID had no footwear, but they didn't stop to collect any even they subsequently appear to have died of hyperthermia... N.B. the clothing of the ravine four was contaminated with radiation.
2. they then appear to be making their way back to the tent but all three of them expire within say 200 metres of other? This is very strange, the snow wasn't deep, surely it should be more variable than that, that they would die hours apart, or at least one/two hours apart? It's as if they were all suffering from some fatal sickness that got all three at the same time. Acute radiation sickness? Whatever all three seem to have ceased moving forward within say 15 minutes of each other....
Robs 26-09-2016 16:25 (GMT)
So how do you explain the injuries on the 3 trying to make it back to the tent and the none injuries of the ones underneath the tree (apart from burns which could have been caused by the fire). Are you saying that there was multiple BL explosions or it was all caused by one?
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 16:12 (GMT)
Robs > well it's good to chew over it with an opposing view but what can be said for certain is that :-

1. the local mansi people blamed the "golden orbs".
2. another hiking party in the region miles away saw a light descend in the DP area and then heard a bang on that night.
3. other eye witness accounts of "lights" over the following weeks including from the rescue party on the same mountain.
4. the pathologist ruled out falling as the cause of the injuries and suggested "like a shockwave from a bomb".
5. alpine experts ruled out avalanches.
6. Ivanov an experienced professional police investigator determined the fireballs as the cause but was overruled by his superiors.
7. beta radiation was discovered on clothing and a water test suggested that the original contamination was high.
Robs 26-09-2016 12:36 (GMT)
Like I say I still don't buy the BL explanation however the only thing that we can for certain is that all left the tent in a hurry for whatever reason and died in 3 groups it's a tragic incident
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 12:03 (GMT)
Robs > i'd try reading the wikimedia article a bit further.

She didn't just bite part of her tongue off. Again from this site - "The medical records simply (state) that "the tongue is missing". Vozrojdenniy describes missing hypoglossal muscle as well as muscles of the floor of the mouth.". I.e. all the soft tissue within mouth was removed.
A possible explanation here is that she bit her tongue, swallowed some blood before dying and then predation attracted by the wound did the rest. Crustacea like water snails would be a good fit for the assymetry of the resultant damage, but note another good fit is whatever causes cattle mutilations....Happy
Robs 26-09-2016 10:14 (GMT)
Without reading the entire wiki info but just skipping there seems to be no evidence of multiple people being killed. Like I say I am not saying you are wrong but personally find it unlikely. I think they fell into the ravine, she broke ribs and bit her tongue off. She was resting on the rock because she couldn't breathe.
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 08:20 (GMT)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
Robs 26-09-2016 05:09 (GMT)
So then the ball lightening just happened to kill the other 4 that were found in the ravine? I don't know facts on ball lightening but how many people had ball lightening killed? Do they all have similar injuries?
Nigel Evans 25-09-2016 21:27 (GMT)
then they slit the tent open from top to bottom to escape quickly (from the ball lightning that was getting too close).
Nigel Evans 25-09-2016 21:05 (GMT)
Robs > the distance from the tent to the trees is given in the map section as 1500 to 2000 metres. I agree with you that they left the tent quickly to return to the previous camp but fatally made an error in direction. Realising that they were now lost they built a fire to survive until dawn were the daylight would help with orientation. The tent had several slits made at eye height (to observe something) and then they slit the tent open from top to bottom to escape quickly.
Robs 25-09-2016 19:08 (GMT)
I have read your articles and I'm not dismissive of them because we will probably never know the truth. However let's take it one step at a time, what is your reason