DYATLOV PASS

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Nigel Evans 25-07-2017 10:47 (GMT)
@Rick - the problem with the fight theory is that it doesn't fit with the evidence :-

1. why leave the tent without footwear/outer clothing?
2. why abandon the tent at all in favour of the forest but climb a tree to observe the tent and leave a flashlight turned on part way on the journey presumably to assist a return?
3. injury profile requires superhuman strength, pathologist says like in a car accident or bomb shockwave.
Rick 25-07-2017 01:41 (GMT)
Been looking into this since 2103. Yes the Russian authorities were very closed in info. I believe it was a fight of some sort between the guys. Irritability. Tired. Short tempered. I have been in Temperatures of -25. I am Canadian. Our Northern winters are similar. It is no picnic when you have wet cold feet and hands. These "kids" were still young however educated they were. They were still somewhat immature. And possibly a moment of temper(s) Cost them their lives. An intriguing mystery to say the least!!
Nigel Evans 14-07-2017 11:05 (GMT)
@Carol - if you're interested, Svetlana Oss has translated the pathologist's reports and you can get them from amazon.
I can't see any mention of X-rayed limbs. But the examinations of the skull and the chest/abdomen seems thorough enough and any gross deformity of the limbs would be obvious? So we're still left with a strong force that can snap multiple ribs on multiple fracture lines but not appear to affect the arms or collar bones?
Carol 13-07-2017 16:50 (GMT)
A few more comments on the injuries. Multiple rib fractures are very frequently NOT associated with bruises or external signs even in the presence of blunt trauma. Lung problems but not rib fractures are associated with blasts. The skull fracture in the den was associated with contact with a blunt object e.g. rock or tree limb but not necessarily used as a weapon - contact could had been accidental. Without further information, I think Ludmilla's tongue was post mortem. During blunt trauma people sometimes sustain a tongue laceration from biting and this may have lead to earlier decomposition. I don't think the medical examiner X-rayed their extremities. In some cases an injury from a fall creates fractures without real gross deformity unless you are looking for them. The same is true for lumbar compression fractures. Also I can't tell how deep the knuckle scuffs were on the people who had them.
Joel Moma 10-07-2017 15:45 (GMT)
Didn't y'all see the Devils Pass movie. It's all explained, lol.
(Actually is a pretty interesting movie, follows the facts up until........)
Stevie 09-07-2017 05:53 (GMT)
Could the missing flesh be attributed to scavaging animals? And is it possible that in hypothermia delirium that someone was so confused that they attacked and killed the others?
Stevie 09-07-2017 05:51 (GMT)
All I can think is a bear or a yeti. Could the clothes have been hanging from a branch in an attempt to dry them out? Was there any reports of a snow storm that may have prevented them from finding their original shelter?
Nigel Evans 06-07-2017 12:51 (GMT)
@Jeff - thanks for clarifiying. The problem with the snow slide theory is that the force required to create the ravine injuries would surely have resulted in other fractures, but none exist. No broken arms or legs, not even a broken collar bone. The force was both strong and very targeted. Barotrauma can perhaps explain the profile with no bruising but that is always attended with burst lungs/ear drums which are not found here.
A crushing force through a layer of snow (small collapse followed by a big collapse) could explain the lack of bruising and the targeting nature.
jeff 05-07-2017 18:31 (GMT)
My apologies for mixing in what I thought was a real investigation and was just tv drama. ALSO I would like to make a substitution of SnowSlide in place of avalanche
Nigel Evans 02-07-2017 07:03 (GMT)
@Dynalee10 - in general the bodies had abrasions and bruises but three of the ravine dead - LD, SZ, NTB did not have any bruising to explain their extensive fractures.
Dynalee10 01-07-2017 19:40 (GMT)
I keep reading that they claimed no external injuries on most of the hikers then the autopsy lists all kinds of external injuries . I find it very inconsistent .
Nigel Evans 01-07-2017 13:43 (GMT)
Surfing around for a possible cause of these large scale microwave fields i've found this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossed-field_amplifier The idea seems to have legs, the wind+snow creates free electrons (like with lightning and thundersnow) and circulates them in vortexes as it passes over the undulating terrain. Then all you seem to need is a magnetic field and you're amplifying background radiation perhaps? Wrt the mag field i remember reading that in the cold war the Soviets tried to build a radar complex in this region but had to abandon it due interference with local magnetic fields presumably from metallic ore deposits.
Hessdalen is an ore rich region...
Nigel Evans 01-07-2017 11:32 (GMT)
@jeff - i don't understand the Mike Libecki point?
jeff 30-06-2017 21:32 (GMT)
so I boil this down to maybe a slight lean towards an infra sound event causing disorientation and maybe a small avalanche. What I wanted to say is I watch Mike Libecki go to the snow cave, NO trap cameras, NO FLIR, NO drones, so, at that point all of his investigation I was only along just for the drama, no actual evidence.
Nigel Evans 30-06-2017 19:23 (GMT)
@mb - from my googling of microwave burns the pain develops slowly. This would explain how YK got down the slope before the pain was making him bite the backs of his hands off (in my theory).
mb 30-06-2017 19:16 (GMT)
Microwave radiation in this context you would expect damage to all areas of exposed skin, and hence you would expect the victims to be desperate to cover their faces especially. I dont know that there is evidence of that. I'll leave it to the medical expert, but I would expect to see things like blistering rather than bruising, as its literally a burn caused by the water in the tissue being super heated.
And the physics of microwave radiation cause radically different affect depending on the frequency. Frequencies that would damage organs might have no effect on the skin at all, and vice versa.
Nigel Evans 30-06-2017 09:56 (GMT)
@Carol - hi, i definately would be interested in hearing more from someone such as yourself with a lifetimes experience in trauma injuries. Todate the discussion has been limited by everyone is a medical layman, so we can only ask the questions but not supply the answers.

But to answer your post, you refer to Rustem several times but the more interesting cases surely are LD, SZ and NTB. N.B. NTB's injuries were more severe than given on this website, the base of the skull was also cracked right across.
But for all three the big anomaly has to be that they don't display any bruising to explain the fractures?

My favourite theory is that the whole mountain was witihn a microwave field and that the bruising on the face and hands is consistent with radiation burns. There's empirical evidence in other cases that this burning is also connected with ball lightning, which i presume to be an effect of the microwave field.

I think it's generally accepted that ID died of hypothermia (bladder had 1 litre of urine) but he may be the only one?
Carol 29-06-2017 17:20 (GMT)
Really like this website. Very informative. I have worked with trauma patients of all kinds for about 40 years (its my job). I have some thoughts on the patterns of trauma seen in these individuals.

First of all explosion: There are three major mechanisms for explosive trauma to humans. Overpressure: this high pressure wave extends outward from the primary area. As a rule if one person in an area dies from this type of trauma, the others are at equal risk. A tent would not provide protection. Typical of over pressure injuries are blast lung (bloody pulmonary edema, perforated bowel. Cerebral edema but no skull fractures. Perforated eardrums. Usually a pressure wave in air causes lung and brain trauma, while one in water causes bowel injuries.
Shrapnel causes penetrating injuries not really seen here.
Injuries from being thrown. Can cause blunt trauma seen here, but the blunt injuries of Rustem and the lower four individuals did not occur at the same time. (I agree that their injuries would have significantly impaired mobility.
A very powerful blast may create a "wind" effect which tends to dismember by tearing off legs etc.

Next hypothermia: As hypothermia progresses two behavioral changes occur which might have affected some of the findings. First: paradoxical undressing-in the last stages of activity during severe hypothermia, the patient begins to feel warm and sometimes attempts to remove his clothes. I wonder if this occurred with dyatlov. It might also explain the position of his arms if he was trying to unbutton things. Also confusion sets in. Even experienced decision makers are unable to think logically. I would expect that at least some of the actions to be illogical and disorganized.
Skull fractures: to me it looks like two very specific mechanisms. Rustem would have impacted a flat or irregular surface, while the injury lower down the slope is compatible with a very localized blow or Impact
Fight injuries The knuckle injuries on Dyatlov and Rustem are compatible with a fight as well as the superficial facial injuries on Rustem. If Rustem's injuries were from being rolled around or some other thing, i wound expect cuts and bruises on all sides of the head as well as on other body parts.
Hope this is interesting.
Nigel Evans 28-06-2017 13:16 (GMT)
@Jack - it's worth adding that the dead birds fit an explosion theory which could be the cause of the collapse or indeed punched part of the snowbank in. The explosion theory could help explain another curiousity - that each of the ravine four and possibly RS as well only receive one serious injury. So the force has to be both strong enough to crush bone but limited to a specific area and quite weak outside of it. The ravine injuries are fascinating, no bruising over the fractures and in each case only one part of the body receives a crushing force. It's my guess that the den would insulate them from the normal consequences of an explosion - e.g. burst lungs/eardrums.
Jack 27-06-2017 18:24 (GMT)
@Nigel
Thanks, I now have a better understanding of the den. If the den collapsed, that would have sucked big time.
Nigel Evans 27-06-2017 16:57 (GMT)
@Jack - my understanding is like this - http://pbskids.org/nova/denali/snowcave.html
Jack 27-06-2017 13:44 (GMT)
I was just wondering if I could get some clarification on the den and what it was. Also, This mystery is very creepy, I wish there were more pictures of the den since zolotaryov had a camera after the fleeing of the tent.
Frank 26-06-2017 01:21 (GMT)
That is Creepy!!!!!!!
Nigel Evans 11-06-2017 00:27 (GMT)
@Loic - thanks for the link. The author has a similar theory to myself. Although I would favour microwaves over higher energies.
Loïc 10-06-2017 07:49 (GMT)
I've found this website with an interesting explanation of the glowing balls seen in the area :
- natural and massive electrical discharge
Interesting to read
https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1
Loïc 08-06-2017 19:59 (GMT)
Congrats for the authors of this very informative website about this tragedy !
I've discovered this case 2 years ago while watching the Discovery TV "documentary" about the russian Yeti...

I've read lot a stuff about this mystery and for me the most convincing theory is a king of lightning ball.

Probably the geology of the area generate magnetic anomalies, coupling with the particular shape of the mountain creating vortex winds, made the perfect conditions to create reccurent lightning bowls.

They were probably awaken by a massive orange glowing orb next the tent. They cut the tent to see it, try to photograph (tripod) but understand rapidly that is was a kind of electrical phenomena.
They leave in a hurry the tent regarding the presence of the metallic Stove.

During their run, maybe they were (nearly?) hit by this lightning ball and have to left the metallic flaslight.

They wait under the Cedar. They climb the tree to watch the glowing ball still standind near the tent, too long to recover themself from hypothermia.
4 tried to make a den but they were to injured to survive.
At last, this electrical phenomena disapeared and the 3 survivors try to reach the tent but they were too exhausted...

A uncompelling natural force...
MB 08-06-2017 13:41 (GMT)
Doesnt explain why they cut their way out of the tent from the inside.
SCHAFFAAAA 07-06-2017 22:52 (GMT)
My opinion of most likely events:
Group was sleeping in the tent in the very early morning around 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. and everybody was miserably cold. Someone had a bright idea, let’s head down to the tree line and start a big fire. Everyone was in agreement. Being overconfident, they didn’t dress very warm but just wanted to get moving and maybe the temperature was not so bad outside ~5 degrees F, not wanting to try to get properly dressed in the darkness with just a flashlight or 2 with 9 people in a small tent they said screw it, I am going how I am, get down fast and make a nice hot fire and I am going to cut my way out, the tent needs sewing anyways (maybe the fireplace was in the way of the entrance?). They made it down to the tree line and making a fire was not as easy as everyone thought. The wind started to really pick-up and the temperature dropped. Some guys climbed the tree trying to get some dry firewood and ended up getting cold and no able to get back down and eventually fell. The group split some tried to make it back to the fire and some tried to get down lower to build a shelter. The ones who tried to make a shelter either fell down the ravine or a big portion of the ravine caved in a brought a heavy massive amounts of snow on them.
Lightning 07-06-2017 16:21 (GMT)
Hessdalen lights have never exploded or left any burn marks. That means they are not electrically charged and are so called cold plasma (plasma thats near room temperature, little amount of atoms ionized). But it can glow as much bright as thermal plasma.

Nigel Evans 02-06-2017 13:14 (GMT)
Ooops - http://virtoo.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/D0006.jpg
Nigel Evans 02-06-2017 10:45 (GMT)
the smiley in the last post was unintended.
Nigel Evans 02-06-2017 10:44 (GMT)
Here's a photo of the den i haven't seen before, just adding it for the record.
http://virtoo.ru/almanach/nepoznannoe/pereval-dyatlova.html @mkk - the photos do display water damage on top of an exposed image as i would expect. Eagle has water damage, whatever chicken was has been obliterared by water damage. I cannot see any water damage on three heads. That's the original exposure imo.

@Saturnalia - there's nothing supernatural about ball lightning, it's a rare natural phenomena that has attracted theories from very eminent physicists. For conventional BL there seem to be two types, 1. glowing shells typically produced from lightning strikes that hover close to the ground and don't last long, say 90 seconds. 2 - lights in the sky that last for several hours, these lights are larger (hessdalen - "as big as a barn"Winking and are diffuse glowing objects. The dp lights seem to be of the second type.
However there are other classifications were it gets fairly spooky :-
http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Vampires.html http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Black_Dogs.html
Saturnalia 02-06-2017 07:37 (GMT)
Nothing supernatural happened. That's the way i see this case. Somebody flipped out inside the tent and slashed it open. Propably some kind of panic attack, some people have those. That tent was quite hell to be inside. It was claustrofobic, loud and cold inside. Wind banged it like sail. I dunno how well that particular canvas breathed. If not well, then nine people inside that small tent is gonna cause some carbon dioxide problems. People have suffocated inside their tents while sleeping. That mountainside was crazy place to put your tent on, they must have had some spesific reason to do so. Ravine lower down would have been much better choice. Firewood, stream, much less wind, level ground, out of sight, etc. They did not care that it was gonna get bit extreme, high self-confidence. They propably did not use the stove because there was no firewood anywhere close. After the tent was slashed, it was all downhill from there, their rationality suffered somehow. Leaving the boots behind is mad, that is the part i just can not understand. It was crazy move, but they did it. Somehow there was no going back to tent. Ball lightnings etc last only a moment. This threat lasted long time. Was it so dark they could not find the tent anymore? Does not sound convincing. On the other hand, snow storm at night...you don"t really see much, moonlight is not there. I try to think this without supernatural explanation. Somebody had a panic attack inside the tent, they had a small fight, etc.
Thomas Whiteside 02-06-2017 03:05 (GMT)
@mkk totally agree it'd be much better so have access to the uncropped damaged photos.

I'm not expert on water damaged film either, but my reading suggests black and white film will be damaged in a variety of ways, depending on the time under water and how it's treated during the drying out / processing stage.

A quick google image search of water damaged film does bring up some examples with big white patches, though i agree they tend to be more streaky / linear and are somewhat different to the 'flashes' on Sasha's film.

Re winding the film, I'm not 100% sure but I think Sasha was using a Zorki 1 rangefinder camera, and as far as I can work out there's nothing unique on this camera with regard to winding the film back into the canister. If you wanted to unload the film in an everyday situation, you'd just hit and switch and then turn the rewind spool until the film came off the advance spool. The other option would be to unload the film without rewinding the pool in a dark room. My guess is you'd do the later in this case, because there'd be less risk of damaged the film further in the rewinding process. Can't see why there'd be any need to finish off the roll of film before unloading it. Though maybe that's a quirk of this camera?
mkk 01-06-2017 23:01 (GMT)
About Zolotaryov's camera and the uncertain pictures...

I don't know anything about film and stuff, so I googled it a little. It seems that water damage wouldn't result in random bits of the film being exposed (like all the "white blob" pics). Whatever was exposed would stay, but the picture might look a bit blurry or muddy or something.

Here are a couple links to photographers who actually soak their film in various liquids (saltwater, orange juice, wine, etc) to get interesting effects.
https://www.lomography.com/magazine/186270-destroying-film-to-play-with-color http://blog.freepeople.com/2015/06/diy-film-soaking/ The above use color film, but there doesn't seem to be anything about B&W that would cause it to work much differently.
http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?threads/film-and-water.45669/ (I'm not sure whether these links will be clickable, but you can copy & paste.)

The other suggestion I've read is that the person who recovered the camera & removed the film had to "use up" the remaining film in the lab in order to remove it from the camera. I don't understand why this would be. The old cameras i remember simply had a little knob that flipped out so you could wind up the film back into the roll before you took it out and put in a new roll. There's no reason you'd have to completely expose the film first. As a matter of fact, since the camera & film had been wet, I'd imagine that the developer wouldn't want to roll it back up at all before developing it because that might cause further damage to the film.

So, in spite of the strangeness of the photos, I can't find a good reason to discount them entirely.

Most of the pics on this site from his camera seem to be close-ups of small parts of the photographs. Is there any way to see the actual photographs, full-size, without cropping?
Nigel Evans 01-06-2017 13:29 (GMT)
@MB - i'd agree that you can't beat a photograph Happy
MB 01-06-2017 13:23 (GMT)
Especially like them Winking Just kidding, i'm not at all saying this event isnt related to something similar. I am saying human beings are awful eye witnesses, by and large. Memory is unreliable and easily influenced. Pictures of footprints and cuts in a tent are pieces of evidence that cant be refuted. Human reports are... more nuanced. Add that to the fact that lights in the sky are very common- and 'new' lights in the sky were common in the era of the early cold war, and i think you have to treat the reports of lights with some question that they are necessarily related.
Nigel Evans 31-05-2017 21:21 (GMT)
@MB - like the scientists investigating Hessdalen?
MB 31-05-2017 18:25 (GMT)
I dont discount the idea of some sort of storm/electrical anomaly, but on the other hand, people see lights in the sky all the time. Particularly when some mystery is in the offing.
Nigel Evans 31-05-2017 17:50 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside - ok we'll have to disagree. But i'd be interested in hearing from a relevant expert how 3 months under the snow can result in two different frames - Three heads and Eagle looking exactly like i would expect from an approaching GLO. That's one hell of a coincidence from random water damage. My only concern wrt these photos is that they are so good they could be fabricated as they seem to have just appeared on the scene many years later.

Wrt the witnessed lights, there were three reports from different highly dependable witnesses over three months including the rescue/investigative team itself who even radioed HQ over concerns for their safety. I'll agree that there's a question mark over the date of the ski party sighting (different sources disagree), but there is no question of the veracity of the three events from Jan to March 1959. Adding this to the fact that the Mansi have a pagan religion built around these lights (Golden Lady) and a more recent expedition recorded a light event that lasted over four hours and i think it's fair to say that the ball lightning theory has a basis in fact. The lights are real.

.. and there's no other theory for the DPI that fits all the facts...
Lightning 31-05-2017 12:33 (GMT)
Does this book explains dead birds, hot spot near tent, why the snow near tent and den was hard like a rock, why tree tops had burnt tops, why footprints look like they have been left on wet snow (it was at least -30 at that night)? If it doesn't, then it can't be called a book and it's not worth reading.
Thomas Whiteside 31-05-2017 11:28 (GMT)
@Lightning The 'Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret' book goes into quite a lot of detail about the other supposed witnesses to the lights in the sky, and quite convincingly dispels this well known myth, pointing out that the other reports of lights related to another incident some distance away, a whole two weeks later. I don't have the book with my right now, but I'm happy to elaborate later.

@Nigel Evans I'm afraid I think what you're describing is paradelia. I simply don't see what you're seeing re the 'three heads' photo. These photos all come from a camera that spend three months under snow and water. No wonder they're damaged / light exposed. Additionally, much seems to be made about the camera being left cocked. Zorkis (and all russian viewfinders of that era) had famously fickle speed dials; the shutter must be cocked before the dial is adjusted. For this reason most users kept them cocked to avoid damaging the camera accidentally if the dial was knocked or adjusting without thinking.
Lightning 30-05-2017 16:45 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside- You are not convinced by 10s another witnesses who saw those lights?
Nigel Evans 30-05-2017 16:44 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside - the three heads works for me, undulating canvas at the bottom with the weave letting the intense light through, snow/graupnel passing in front of the light illuminated for the duration of the shot, the snow even repeatedly modulating as it rotates in high winds. There's too much that's right for it to be random damage?
Lightning 30-05-2017 16:44 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside- "Snow slip" theory doesn't make any sense. If it was powerful enough to cause injuries comparable to a car crash it would definetely crushed a dent and it would not be still secured on ground. Besides investigators would have noticed if there was any big chunk of ice or snow.
Thomas Whiteside 30-05-2017 16:22 (GMT)
Sorry, just to be clear. My commentary is based on a rejection of the massive bright lights in the three heads or eagle light photos etc. actually depicting a light show. I'm still not convinced they are of much meaning; they appear to be imperfections / damage to the film. It's not hard to get freaky looking things on damaged 35mm.

However, if you do think they depict a massive light event; then sure, I agree there'd be enough light to take some photos. My below commentary is based on there being normal night lighting conditions, including a good moon or a torch or two.
Thomas Whiteside 30-05-2017 16:09 (GMT)
The book goes through a bunch of various theories very nicely pointing to their strengths and weaknesses, then the author conclude my positing their own theory re the 'snow slip'. This theory is different still very different to the avalanche theory; a snow slip being a large chunk of ice / snow becoming dislodged rather than a full on avalanche. The idea is it hit only part of the tent; injuring some but not all etc. Theory posits those with broken ribs and cracked skulls were sufficiently mobile to be walked out but weren't much use beyond that etc. Anyway, I'm not here to argue big picture; more interested in the cameras right now.

I don't think it being a relatively bright night etc. overcomes the need for very good light to get a decent exposure. They are using flashless cameras, and flow speed film (I assume 100 or 200 ISO/ASA - 400 ISO/ASA didn't really come out until the early 70s).

Also, can you tell me what type of Zorkis they were using? Models 1 - 4 were available at the time. The photo on the camera section here appears to be a Zorki 1, but I've read on another forum someone had a Zorki 4.
Nigel Evans 30-05-2017 15:52 (GMT)
@Thomas Whiteside - I don't have the book to hand but from memory it discusses at least a dozen different theories. I thought that it was widely accepted that the existence of the footprints (of 8 to 9 individuals), the effort required to gather firewood and build a snowden versus the extensive fractures ruled out the possibility that they occured at the tent. AK was dead from a snapped neck, LD had a rib piercing her heart and NTB's skull was so badly split his head had lost symmetry. The avalanche theory has been discarded by most people interested in the dpi.

SZ was (it is assumed) a KGB agent and hence presumably well trained in using his second camera for day or night shots. If the photos are genuine then it wasn't dark! Imo the three heads photo is from inside the tent. If so then it seems plausible that he took the plane/eagle photos outside, got cold and returned inside were shortly after the GLO appeared right outside the tent, it's not a perfect shot it does seem a little over exposed but to be fair he was probably getting worried by then.

If you look under the "TENT" link above you'll see that when they descended they walked an extra 800 metres past the start of the treeline to reach the cedar which was the tallest tree by far and apparently provided a view of the tent from it's top half. This means that if the GLO was at the tent it would illuminate the top half of this tree and act as a beacon. That they walked twice the distance necessary to gather firewood is significant imo. They needed to get the the cedar because there was something at the tent to monitor.
MB 30-05-2017 14:01 (GMT)
Theres some discussion below that suggests lighting conditions that night (even though it was moonless until 3am) were unusual. See the discussions of the flashlights and where they were placed. Its not entirely conclusion (an additional flashlight may have never been recovered) but I think its pretty suggestive that they had enough light to see by for at least the beginning of the night.
Thomas Whiteside 30-05-2017 13:42 (GMT)
Oh and one more thing, the most logical reason for the camera being mounted on a tripod would appear to relate to the light needed for 35mm film.

There would have been very low light inside the tent, and one would need to use a very low shutter speed to even body attempting a photo. At any shutter speed below 1/60th you need to use a tripod otherwise you get a blurred image. I know no photo was taken inside the tent, but maybe someone thought about giving it a go in the fading afternoon light, set up the shot, and then decided it was a lost cause?

Also, is there any suggestion they were carrying light meters? I haven't picked on any suggestion they were? I'm pretty sure the 50s Zorkis didn't had inbuilt ones.
Thomas Whiteside 30-05-2017 13:33 (GMT)
First off, by the far the most convincing theory I've encountered so far is the 'snow slip' theory offered by Amanda Bosworth, Irina Lobatcheva, and Vladislav Lobatchev in 'Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret'. The key being the fact only Slobodin's body left an ice thraw suggested he was still warm when he fell, and therefore suggesting injuries were caused inside the tent.

Anyway, just be reading again the camera section here, and a lot is made of the extra camera found around Zolotaryov's neck, supposedly taken by him when he left the tent to take photos of whatever terror was unfolding. This seems to miss a crucial point, it was dark! Manual rangefinders need light to work. Without a flash, there'd be no point taking the camera to take photos of whatever was occurring. Seems to me he was either just wearing it already, or keeping it safe to use another time.
Nigel Evans 30-05-2017 10:39 (GMT)
@Trf - i'd be interested in seeing a critique of SZ's photos if you find it again.

No my theory doesn't require lightning. The thundersnow theory is an alternative one to explain the ravine deaths and possibly YK/YD. A strong lightning strike has been known to throw people 30ft through the air and strip them naked. It's a good theory to explain natural barotrauma and burns and burnt clothing. But of course a weakness of the theory is that it requires very bad luck that the strike hits the ravine close enough to be fatal. N.B. the fire at the tall cedar might have encouraged the strike...
But the "ball lightning at the tent followed by a collapse of the snow den theory" doesn't need it. They are alternative natural phenomena theories to explain the injuries. Currently i like the two phase collapse of the den the best. Doesn't make it true of course... Happy
Trf 30-05-2017 07:16 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans

Like I said earlier, I do love your theory - but the negatives from Semyons camera aren't proof of anything. They're incredibly damaged and aren't necessarily photographs of light sources at all. I saw a good explanation from a photography expert but I can't find it.

I think Igor's last photograph is more telling, but even that could be anything.

Also, your theory involves severe lightning. You don't need to climb a tree in order to see ball lightning or some other extreme light phenomena. If it was extreme enough to make them slash their tent, surely it was lighting up the sky. Pretty obvious if it is still around the tent or not, no need to scale a tree.

Climbing a tree around lightning is illogical and obviously dangerous too. I think someone climbing so high (5 metres?) points towards someone trying either to hide or escape from something - or trying to provide a vantage on something that isn't so obvious as a ball of light. Or they were hypothermic and irrational and their tree climbing actions were chaotic. Firewood is another theory.
Nigel Evans 30-05-2017 06:06 (GMT)
@Lemmino YT - a smoke or carbon monoxide theory doesn't explain why they abandoned the tent without collecting clothing, headed for the cedar which was the tallest tree and provided a means of observing the tent site from it's top half.
A good theory has to explain what kind of threat could cause them to vacate the tent area but seek to monitor it in order to return.
Searching for an explanation for these facts we have eye witness accounts of lights and photos attributed to SZ.
Trf 29-05-2017 22:53 (GMT)
@Lemmino YT

The tent's canvas showed no signs of smoke or burn damage. Nor do any objects inside the tent. There certainly wasn't a large fire inside there because everything would be burnt. So maybe just smoke?

I agree that smoke is a great motivator to slash the tent - but it doesn't explain the horrific injuries that occurred later. It also doesn't explain why they walked so far from the tent. After the smoke was exhausted - why not grab your shoes? Why walk off barefoot?
Lemmino YT 29-05-2017 22:19 (GMT)
It's pretty obvious that the disassembly of Dyatlov's homemade stovepipe coupled with freshly burnt embers was the culprit that hastily smoked them all out of the overcrowded tent in the middle of the night and then sent them scrambling down the hill disoriented into the woods to procure additional kindling and cover and ultimately meet their untimely demise in the freezing pitch darkness. Ball lightning and Kármán vortex streets? Come on, grow a brain people.
Nigel Evans 29-05-2017 21:12 (GMT)
@Trf - hi there.

Your theory has to deny the photos attributed to SZ, my theory embraces them.

YK's burn was a foot long (30cm) and the skin was charred down to the underlying tissues. It is accepted that this couldn't be accidental. Either he was unconcious or tortured or already dead or something else. That he bit his hands so hard rules out some of those. We can't prove where the burn came from but i like it as a reason for immediately vacating the tent.

It might not have been -20C, Ctrl F this page for hot spot.

I don't buy that they immediately vacate the tent and leave their clothing because the weather scared them. It was something stronger than that. Cue SZ's three heads photo.

Glad you like the theory overall.

The footprints were almost all from people without boots. Either they are genuine or fabricated, no possibility of contamination. The wind exposes or covers depending on the shape of the terrain. The bigger question is how did they survive 4 weeks, cue the warm snow theory.

Trf 29-05-2017 20:35 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans

It doesn't have to be something as rare/controversial and unprecedented as ball lightning for the theory to make sense. It could've just been normal lightning or bad wind. Have some terrifying, loud inclement weather roll over you and it can cause a panick, which leads to the tent being cut open.

From there, the only logical thing to do is to move to cover which is the tree line. The bad weather was still a pressing concern so most didn't bother getting correctly dressed, they just got out of there. Loud wind or stormy conditions may have made them worry about avalanche or snow drift which makes the tent on the slope a scary place to stay. They probably weren't thinking about consequences, they just wanted to get out and assumed they could come back for their items later.

I don't agree with you in your assessment of the burns. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect freezing people without shoes be so desperate for warmth that they burn themselves without realising. I believe the burns were probably caused by the fire at the cedar tree. It is easy to burn yourself when huddled up by a fire, especially if you're drifting in and out of consciousness or suffering from hypothermia.

You mention it wasn't that cold. Most estimates put the weather that night to be around -20C. I don't care if you're a Jamacain or an Eskimo, being shoeless in -20C with high wind and wet snow would be enough to put your body into shock and begin hypothermia. This is scientific fact. They would have not been comfortable by any means. Sure, they didn't all have frostbite but you don't need horrific frostbite to die of hypothermia.

I agree with your general idea about the injuries they suffered. I think it was a combination of falls and impact with debris due to inclement weather. It isn't a coincidence that the individuals in the "snow den" had the worst of the impact injuries.

I think the most likely solution is bad weather scared at least one of the hikers to make them slash their way out of the tent. This rendered the tent inhospitable so they moved to get cover. Murphy's law took over and provided the rest.

Overall, your theory is excellent. I understand that the camera being on the corpse of Semyon may be a sign of some weird and wonderful weather phenomena occurring. Ivor's last photo might point to the same thing. As does the eye witness reports of light around the general area.

One question I have is about the footprints. Surely we can't put much stock into them. The investigators had no idea of the nature of the mystery when they found the sight and more than likely contaminanted the scene on arrival. Also, if enough snowfall occurred to essentially completely obscure the bodies - how were footprints still visible?
Nigel Evans 29-05-2017 15:06 (GMT)
@Lightning - "Others reported skin redness, vomiting and loss of hair, which are typical results of ionizing radiation". This all fits with the dpi of course.

However Wu is discussing lightning bolts generating microwaves which produce short lived ball lightning of relatively small size and short lifetimes. The DP lights are different and perhaps have more in common with Hessdalen where objects "as big as a barn" can last for hours and have a radar signature without being visible. Clearly there's a lot of overlap but what creates the microwaves would seem to be different. I like the large atmospheric maser/soliton theory of course.
Lightning 29-05-2017 13:16 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans- microwaves can actually cause "debiitating force". "Occurring at 0.1 J/cm^2, nerve damage can lead to a numbness in the limbs. The microwave reaches 1 J/cm^2 for ball formation."

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep28263
Nigel Evans 29-05-2017 11:38 (GMT)
My best guess so far :-
1. YK gets too close to the GLO at the tent and suffers an electrical or microwave burn. YD could have been burnt also but his "burns" are also consistent with frostbite from spending too long up the cedar in severe windchill. YK's injuries force an immediate but orderly withdrawal to the cedar. There is good evidence that temperatures were raised above normal and the group may have prefered immediate withdrawal to collecting unnecessary clothing (most of the group had no frostbite even though they had no gloves or boots and the fire and the den clearly took some time to create).
2. YK and YD die first at the campfire. YK is in such pain that he bites the back of his hand off which is found in his mouth. That he was conscious just before death makes it difficult imo to argue that his massive leg burn was accidental from the campfire. The rescuers claim that the footsteps where from 8 or 9 people. Imo this points to YK being carried part of the way.
3. A two phase collapse of the snow den creates the fractures including RS. The first collapse pushes the group off their seats with NTB's head lying between LD and SZ all of them struggling under the snow. AK gets his head above the snow just in time for the second much heavier collapse. This snaps AK's neck and punches the first fall of snow along a line cracking two chests and one skull. The "punch" is softened by the first fall so that it crushes without bruising or breaking limbs. RS is at the periphery of the first fall and receives more direct contact with it which does result in bruising.
4. The remaining three rescue the ravine four plus RS. AK is dead but all the others are still alive. Clothing is taken from YD/YK to try and make the injured comfortable. LD dies shortly afterwards and some of her clothing is passed to SZ who tries to write in his notebook.
5. As the leader ID decides to brace the cold and remain with the injured but instructs ZK to get RS back to the shelter of the tent now that the GLO has gone (and perhaps return with more clothing).
6. RS and ZK both collapse on the return journey. They together with ID all exhibit facial "scratches". Note this is consistent with other ball lightning experiences the theory being that it is caused by microwaves.
7. The last to die in the ravine would have been NTB estimated by the pathologist at taking two hours. ID now suffering from hypothermia tries to return but also collapses. The returning three all lie within 330 metres of each other suggesting imo some "debiitating force".
8. At sunrise a group of crows find the bodies removing eyes/tongue etc shortly before further snowfall/wind drift buries the bodies.
Lightning 29-05-2017 09:23 (GMT)
@Jordan As mentioned before here it is impossible that another human being can inflict such a damage. Medical examiner compared impact force to car crash. No normal human being cannot inflict such a damage neither a soldier. Besides if it was some super human it would definetely caused soft tissue damage, but there weren't any.
Jordan 29-05-2017 06:01 (GMT)
Chris,

You're right. I'm not really drawn to the light in the sky thing but I just felt like mentionining it. Can't discard it, primarily due to the witness accounts.

I also think the cause must be somehow related to the Soviet Union's government, because they undoubtedly obstructed the investigation and aftermath. Maybe their obstructiveness was just the way they operated about everything though.

The more I read the more convinced I am the hiker's injuries were inflicted by other human beings. Almost all of them had impact trauma - not just the ones in the snow den. Zina had a large "baton like" bruise on her stomach and Rustik had a strike to the head too. An avalanche could cause this, but that's all but been ruled out.
Chris 29-05-2017 04:57 (GMT)
The specks on the photo, based on the randomness of​their shapes, appear to be specks of radiation or other contamination. The film was under water for three months and very likely corrupted. There was one photo that showed what many call "lights in the sky", this could easily be an out-of-focus shot of a camp fire, or a meteor, or a UFO.
Jordan 29-05-2017 03:49 (GMT)
I think there is enough evidence to seriously consider the lights in the sky as a part of this. I don't want to sound like a tin foil hat UFO man - but there is evidence. The last photo they took appears to be a light. The negatives from Sasha's camera appear to be photographs of a light source. Several of them. Then we have the witness testimonies and observed light phenomena from that area. Then we have the tree marks.

I think they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I just don't know why seeing light phenomena would motivate you to shred your tent.

It also explains why the Soviet officials covered it up. The lights were probably military testing.

I also think there is enough evidence to consider the blunt force trauma being the result of hostility.

I have a feeling the tent was shredded after the group were dead.
MB 22-05-2017 14:17 (GMT)
If it was so bitterly cold that they were already suffering from hypothermia IN the tent, it begs the question why they pitched the tent out in the open on the mountain. Demonstrably its a quick walk to gain some shelter and pitch the tent in a safer spot.
Yudin postulated that Dyatlov chose that spot to challenge their mountaineering skills, which seems reasonable if the weather was amendable, but suicidal if the weather was already punishing them. Their state of dress (undress) also points to reasonably mild conditions when they camped. I think there are a some indications that there was a major shift in the weather in the night that contributed to the endgame.
Nigel Evans 22-05-2017 09:52 (GMT)
@Lightning - thundersnow can explain events after leaving the tent but not why they left it.
Saturnalia 21-05-2017 13:10 (GMT)
"if they were suffering from hypothermia why go 1.5 km away from the tent. They could just light up their oven or if it didn't work make a campfire near the tent? Suffering from hypothermia i can't possible see how could they walk 1.5 km."

Their tent was full of big holes, stove does not help much then. You can walk if you have hypothermia. Survival instict makes wonders for your performance.

But yeah, Nigel is right. They propably were feeling warm and okay, because they had undressed. Still...very, very limited space inside the tent. According to weather reports it was not horribly cold night.
Lightning 21-05-2017 12:52 (GMT)
Much colder air from the mountain collided with the warmer air. Was it cloudy during the day?
Lightning 21-05-2017 12:38 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans- So it shows that temperature was suitable for formation of thundersnow?
Nigel Evans 21-05-2017 12:23 (GMT)
the software just stripped all the nice spacing out but hopefully still readable.
Nigel Evans 21-05-2017 12:22 (GMT)
From "Don't go there", temperatures from nearest weather stations, Feb 1-2.

Troitsk-Pecherski (123 miles north) Nyaksimvol (59 miles north-east) Ivdel (75 miles south)
7am -7.8C -6.9C -6.0C
1pm -10.3C -9.0C -5.6C
7pm -15.1C -13.8C -11.0C
1am(Feb 2) -18.1C -18.0C -14.6C
7am(Feb 2) -17.3C -28.4C -16.5C

Nigel Evans 21-05-2017 11:56 (GMT)
@Lightning/Saturnalia -

If they were suffering from the cold then they would be wearing all the extra clothing :-

9 parka, 8 quilted jackets (vatnik), 1 fur jacket, 2 fur sleeveless vests, 4 shell pants, 1 cotton pants, 4 Scarf, 13 pairs of gloves (fur, cloth and leather), 7 pcs. boots (valenki), 2 pairs of slippers, 3 skating caps, 1 fur hat, 2 felt beret.

That they were not wearing the above, particularly the gloves and felt boots indicates that they were not suffering from hypothermia...
Nigel Evans 21-05-2017 11:45 (GMT)
@Saturnalia -

They used the backpacks with the skis to create a floor that insulated them from the ground. But they had to sleep with the contents of course. But a lot of that would be clothing. I don't think they undressed much, imo what they left the tent wearing was their sleepwear. They hadn't washed in days, probably better to stay dressed Happy

It's worth remembering that at this latitude in winter they would have limited daylight hours say 8 hours per day so 16 hours of darkness. It's possible that they normally slept in shifts with the others outside by the fire. The last night was an exception and they probably didn't expect a good nights sleep, just catnap.

Someone has speculated that they didn't take their outer clothing because it was wet and perhaps frozen. Good point perhaps but it doesn't explain why they didn't grab their valenki (felt boots) and other clothing.

On the first day the men carried 40kg backpacks and the girls 30kg, they left 55kg of food at the base camp to ascend, they didn't carry firewood for the stove, normally it was just outside the camp, they left three hand axes behind in the tent which also indicates the rush. That the stove was found inside the tent indicates imo that they hadn't settled in for the night, it would make sense to leave it outside in the snow for sleeping.

But imo the temperature wasn't -25C, these people must have been outside for at least 1 hour maybe longer in their socks with no gloves, no face protection and yet there is very little frostbite recorded, most of them don't have any. With the reported high winds the effective/wind chill temperature would have been much lower, could have been -50C. You'd get frostbite in minutes... The lack of frostbite, hot spot, footprints that last for weeks, snow on tent as hard as wood, it's all pointing at unusually warm conditions that subsequently returned to normal (much colder).
Lightning 21-05-2017 09:30 (GMT)
@Saturnalia- if they were suffering from hypothermia why go 1.5 km away from the tent. They could just light up their oven or if it didn't work make a campfire near the tent? Suffering from hypothermia i can't possible see how could they walk 1.5 km.
Saturnalia 21-05-2017 08:53 (GMT)
Somebody here noted that tent size was very small. I do agree. It is not impossible to fit nine people inside that tent without backpacks, but it"s gonna be very tight. No room for anything else, even turning around while sleeping is will be difficult.

How they did it with backpacks, is bit of a mystery. If everybody used their backpack as a pillow, then just about...but it was definitely claustrofobic inside the tent. Oxygen levels were propably suffering, expecially when the stove was on. Positive side is that when people pack themselves next to each other this tightly, they will heat up each other.

Just how they managed to undress and dress orderly inside so tight space is a mystery. It is not entirely impossible, i have done that in the army, but it is very slow process to dress up inside so tight space. Had this reality something to do with the fact they exited the tent undressed? Dressing up would have taken many minutes to do, and they somehow did not have minutes.

What buzzles me is the fact that the stove was not on that night. When i think how tightly next to each other they were sleeping, i kinda understand that, they did not need the stove that night, they heated up each other somewhat. Anyway, it was still cold.

Sleeping at -20C without a stove and without modern, high-tech sleeping bags and stuff can freak you out. It"s scary. It freaked me out once in the army pretty badly. During the hardest training period we were sleeping at -25C without sleeping bags and stove really did not help much. It"s scary when you lose the control of your mouth and can not speak anymore properly.

When we marched back to barracks i walked straight to the hot shower with my rifle and everything on, and got short punishment but i did not care. It was worth it. Never have shower felt so good in my life.

It somehow looks like they decided to try some kind of new experiment that night, trying to sleep without a stove by just getting packed very tightly, but it did not work very well. They were close to hypothermia, and then something extraordinary happened, or at least they imagened so.
Nigel Evans 19-05-2017 09:18 (GMT)
@Lightning - Svetlana Oss in her book - "Don't go there" gives the relevant reports from all the local weather stations. None of them are very close, say 50 miles away but from memory they all report ordinary conditions for the time of year, average temps/wind speeds etc. However people in settlements closer reported very high winds... Wind would be stronger at 1000m of course.
Lightning 19-05-2017 07:54 (GMT)
Are there any weather reports/maps about this area in February and March (doesn't matter what language, Google Translate will help)?
Nigel Evans 18-05-2017 21:28 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - the ball lightning theory has it that they could see the tent from the top half of the cedar because this was outside it - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-01.jpg and that it had burnt the two Yuris by the tent forcing the group to immediately withdraw.
MB 18-05-2017 17:36 (GMT)
If it was murder it was the most inconvenient murder imaginable.
Tim mckernan 18-05-2017 17:06 (GMT)
Finger nail scrapings and or hair transfers could Yield DNA. This could point directly to which tribe and relative if they were murdered...RIGHT! They will find Emeilla first and flight M 270.
Saturnalia 18-05-2017 16:42 (GMT)
Watching those recent russian scene recreation videos that distance to the ravine from the tent looks like a loooong walk. Russian guy walks it and it takes over 20 minutes from him in the snow. They propably thought that their tent was now useless for survival and decided to build a den down hill. Walked there without their shoes and full clothes then. This case is insane. If they acted rationally after leaving the tent, why didn"t they pick up their shoes then from the tent? Something obviously prevented. It"s a looong walk to the ravine in the snow. Why go so far? Tent disappeared from their sight when they were only half way down. If somebody was on the tent he did not see them anymore, and they did not see him. From the ravine the tent was visible, but it"s just a little black dot far, far away. Tent was mile away and it was more or less dark. I don"t believe they tried to see the tent from the tree, tent was just too far away to really tell anything about happening around it. So, they rationally and calmly abandoned their tent and their shoes and clothes, and walked down to the ravine? Tent was screwed and new den was needed down hill, but why to leave important clothing behind? It"s like, there was somehow no way to return inside the tent, even after calm consideration. Weird. Only reason i can find to walk such a great distance without proper clothing was that they decided to build that den immediately, right after leaving the tent. That was the reason they went down hill, tent was useless. But why not to take shoes with them then? It"s just crazy. More you think of it it seems they ran down hill in panic without any plan about the den. That would explain why they left their important clothing behind. Flaslight was propably found to be non-working, so they just threw it away while they ran.
Many of you propably have thought this case way more than me, i just try to fork around this a bit.
Nigel Evans 18-05-2017 07:53 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - SZ didn't have any head fractures. He didn't have any bruising to explain the chest fractures. Ditto NTB, his head fractures were more extensive than described on this site, the base of his skull was cracked from side to side, but no bruising. It's impossible to do this with a rifle butt? In fact although the ravine four carried other bruises they didn't have any that could explain the extensive fractures. Hence speculation that barotrauma was involved. But there are no burst lungs/ears that would be expected from an explosion. One explanation to fit the profile is the roof of the den collapsed. Or there was an explosion further back in the ravine snow bank that attenuated the shockwave enough to not burst tissues but still had enough force to throw the den and it's occupants sideways 6-10 metres perhaps.
Dyatlov is above Helsinki, not the artic circle but getting there.
Saturnalia 18-05-2017 06:13 (GMT)
One member has severe head and chest injuries, but the camera hanging from his neck is intact.
Blows that broke his chest did not touch his camera hanging on the top of the chest. This seems to indicate that those blows were very well aimed indeed. Somebody hit him with the backside of the rifle when he was on the ground. Did not hit the camera, which is weird. How camera can survive intact the force that crushes your chest? It swung on the side somehow?
There"s so many mysteries in this case it"s unbelievable. Guy had a pee, and then started to run for cover. Threat must have been dramatic. One single mansi with a rifle will not cause this kind of panic. Who knows. Guy having a pee yelled to others inside the tent that "here"s a man with a gun!". Could everybody panic because of that? Somehow does not sound convincing. It must have been something more dramatic.

Dyatlov pass is around 1400 kilometres from here, at the same global height. It is not very far north.

MB 17-05-2017 19:50 (GMT)
We should expect the unusual, something unusual (or several somethings) certainly happened to these people, or a plausible solution would be available. The foot prints exist because the photos exist. Usual or not the searchers found them. Is it more likely that an uncommon sequence occurrence like a quick freeze followed by snow followed by wind just as the searchers arrived, or some much more unlikely or inexplicable event? Im not saying something genuinely unprecedented isnt possible, but if we're talking odds, i think those are longer odds.
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 17:33 (GMT)
All discussions of temperature should recognise the reported high winds with associated wind chill, i.e. -25C can be in effect -50C if the wind is strong enough.
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 17:31 (GMT)
@Lightning - from memory one of the reports talks about " a light surrounded by a mist", note the eagle1 and 2 photos.
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 17:23 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - we crossed posted there, this is Siberia in Feb on the North side of the mountain, reasonable that the temperature shouldn't get above say -15C?
Lightning 17-05-2017 17:23 (GMT)
Well i found an exactly the same description of ball lightning that witnesses saw around that time (February and March) in Dyatlov. And it also happened at winter! And it also exploded! (Size of a moon and halo around it)

http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Fireball.html Scroll down for a "A very strange visitation"
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 17:01 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - as you say the facts strongly point to a static natural threat at the tent, forcing them to withdraw to safe distance and light a fire/build a den.
But do you think that the footsteps can be explained by the temperature of the snow being raised close to it's melt point and then refrozen?

@MB - being covered by snow until just before discovery is an explanation but of course an improbable one. Occam's Razor doesn't explain the hot spot, or the rescue team reporting that the snow on the tent was as hard as wood.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 16:52 (GMT)
Temperatures travel up and down inside four weeks quite a lot usually, melting and freezing again. Four weeks is a month, about. A long time during the winter. Many things are just about possible, but it is very unusual to be able the trace sharp footprints on snow after a month. Mellow round-edged shallow potholes. You can tell if it was two legged or four legged, but that"s about it. Of course mountain conditions can differ somewhat. Temps are colder higher up and there is less snowfall. Melting temperatures are less likely to happen on higher altitude.
MB 17-05-2017 16:31 (GMT)
@Nigel I dont know how much weight i'd give those followup expeditions regarding footprints. How many variables are involved? You'll never know if youve replicated whatever conditions existed exactly, and you'd really need dozens or hundreds of tests under differing conditions to even get an idea. I do know that footprints sometimes quickly ice over and then can be covered with snow that is later blown off. I'd suggest Occams Razor tells us thats likely what happened.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 16:20 (GMT)
About those footsteps, there are no sharp footsteps after four weeks even if conditions were dead calm during all that time, which is very unlikely. Footsteps on snow smooth out quite fast, they become like mellow-edged round pots. Definitely untracable after four weeks. You can tell that a human stepped there, but that"s about it.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 16:12 (GMT)
Thank you for your critique. I just tried to find some new leads. I have read tons about this case. That flashlight. Yeah, they propably left it behind intentionally as a beacon if it was not dead already. If it was dead already they could have just thrown it away. That means the threat they experienced was not mobile. It was a static threat around the tent area that did not chase them following the light cue. A static threat, that makes a group leave their tent in horror. Now what could that be? Human threat would have followed them, using the light cue. It was not a human threat if they left that flashlight there intentionally to find back to tent. If we believe in this flashlight theory, it was unhuman threat. This is very fascinating case indeed. Non-human threat, wow. Non-intellectual threat. We can pretty much count all animals out too, no one wants to leave them a light cue. A threat that did nor care about the flaslight next to it. I hate that thunderball theory, but something cold and unhuman it was. It seems like they behaved rationally right after leaving the tent, sort of. Missed the base camp though. Threat existed only around the tent area, it was not able to travel. Static, nonhuman threat. Sounds and blasts are not very static, they have a wide effect area. It looks like this threat was quite strongly limited around the tent area. What kind of threat could be static, unintellectual and unhuman? If it would have a blast of some kind, it would have been over after the blast. It was static and unintellectual but it lasted, preventing them from returning. Very, very interresting. It did not move but it did not go away rapidly. What the heck could that be?
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 16:06 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - given your experience of these conditions i'd be interested in your view of the footsteps lasting four weeks. Subsequent winter expeditions have reported that they cannot reproduce this persistence. One theory is that the temperature that night was higher, closer to the snow's melt point resulting in impressions that when they refroze lasted much longer in the high wind conditions.
mkk 17-05-2017 14:12 (GMT)
@Saturnalia--My understanding is that there were broken fibers, or "blade scratches" on the inside of the tent around the cuts, but not on the outside. As though someone made attempts to cut through the tent from the inside before actually succeeding.

But there have been some questions as to how accurately the cuts on the tent were recorded (number, size, placement) since, at first, the volunteers were simply looking for the hikers and hoping to find them alive. I don't know whether that's a valid question, or whether the investigators can be trusted to have made accurate notes of everything.

Your theory of hypothermia makes sense at first glance, but it sounds like maybe you aren't familiar with the other pieces of information.

It seems that the only part of their behavior which makes no sense is leaving the tent. The rest of their behavior seems to be perfectly rational. There was a flashlight which looked like it had been left as a beacon to mark the way back to the tent. After the first two died (under the cedar tree) the others laid them out respectfully and donned pieces of their clothing to help fight the cold. (Thus some of them in the ravine were found wearing pieces of the clothing from the guys under the tree.) There was distinct evidence of a snow cave having been built, with evergreen branches for seats. None of this sounds like the behavior of people losing their ability to think carefully and attempt to survive. Even if it were some strange kind of temporary insanity that caused them to leave the tent, why not return to it to get supplies & gear as soon as their wits returned?

So we are left trying to figure out why intelligent, brave mountaineers decided they had a better chance of survival in the Siberian forest in February (without full winter clothing!) than in their tent. I agree with you, that people don't run out into the freezing night because of a weird sound. (Although--have you ever experienced infrasound? There are some sites online where you can hear/feel it if you have earphones. It's pretty crazy. I can see how it might drive someone batty after several hours. Only it doesn't explain why they didn't take sixty seconds longer to put on their shoes.)

Nigel has a good theory, which he explains in the thread below.
Nigel Evans 17-05-2017 13:11 (GMT)
@Saturnalia - about the theory that they were suffering from cold, but the theory has to explain how they were sufficiently sane to leave a flashlight as a beacon along the path to the cedar and collect firewood and make a fire but sufficiently confused to leave their footwear and other clothing in the tent. There are several key questions wrt the dpi and the biggest is why do that?
You'll have to read the thread to get upto speed, checkout the three heads photo.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 08:29 (GMT)
Two days before death their diary says:

"Came out relatively early (around 10am). Took the same Mansi sled trail. Till now we walk along a Mansi trail, which was crossed by a deer hunter not long ago. Yesterday we apparently came across his resting stop. Deer didn't go much further. The hunter didn't follow the beaten trail and we are now in his steps."

They travelled something like 6-8 miles per day.
Mansis with a gun were no more than 12-15 miles away from their last camp. Propably closer.
On a clear day you can see miles and miles on that kind of mountain area. Mansis propably had them on their view most of the time.
Saturnalia 17-05-2017 07:18 (GMT)
How we know the tent was cut from the inside?
There has been quite a few criminal attacks on tents where tent was cut from the outside by the attacker. For me this looks like a some kind of outside attack, and then they escaped on wrong direction away from the base camp. Otherwise they would have cut the tent open without seeing the attacker, only based on sound, which is quite weird logically. IF the tent was cut from the inside, it was done based only on sound. If you think logically, there are no such sounds out there that make you do something that suicidal as destroying your tent on freezing cold arctic weather. I have been military trained on arctic where i live too, and you just do not destroy our tent like that based on some weird sound. Nobody is that stupid, and those people were intelligent scientists. They know the consequences of their every action exactly. I have slept on exactly same kind of conditions on tent during the military years, as a member of a same kind of group, and one suggestion that came to my mind is boring and simple, they experienced hypothermia inside the tent, i have experienced that once, and started to behave weirdly because of that. On hypothermia you want to undress. As far as i understand their stove was not on or there at all.
It"s lethally cold to sleep on wet clothes at -30C without heat source. Problem with this logic is why they were so stupid then? Was their stove there? Without working stove on -30C after a day hiking, jesus. They possibly went on hypothermia inside the tent.

mkk 16-05-2017 23:25 (GMT)
@Tim--"the snow cave is to clean cut". Typo for "too"? As in, "the snow cave looks more neat and tidy than I'd expect, for being built in the dark."

Not trying to be annoying; just making sure I understand you.
Nigel Evans 16-05-2017 15:25 (GMT)
@Tim - i don't agree with most of that but in particular i don't understand the first sentence, what do you mean by "The shovel is out of place in the sequence of exiting the tent."?
Tim mckernan 16-05-2017 13:06 (GMT)
The shovel is out of place in the sequence of exiting the tent. Someone knew where the shovel was in the dark and used it to inflict some of the injuries on the tourists. The snow cave is to clean cut and looks staged for people freezing to death.
Michal Kántor (photo editor Bauer Media Prague) 16-05-2017 12:39 (GMT)
Hello, we'd like to write a double-page on Dytlov Pass in our Rhythm of Life magazine. We would like to use photos from your site. Possible? Thanks for the reply.
mkantor@bauermedia.cz
MB 12-05-2017 13:45 (GMT)
@rol88 I actually think its very likely that two or more unlikely events happened in quick succession in this case. Thats the reason its such an enduring mystery. Its a game of statistics, millions of people have gone hiking in the last 60 years. Almost all of them have come back safe. Some have suffered accidents that are readily explained. A few have disappeared or are otherwise still mysterious. You get enough people out hiking over a long enough period of time, sooner or later something very unlikely is going to happen to them. Sooner or later two or more very unlikely things are going to happen, and its going to seem extremely mysterious in retrospect.
IE- every so often somewhere in the world a cars brakes go out. Every so often the steering goes out. On very, very rare occasions the brakes and the steering go out near simultaneously for completely unrelated reasons. To the naked eye that seems so unlikely they there must be some connection or conspiracy, but thats not necessarily so. Its just the law of big numbers.
Nigel Evans 12-05-2017 09:48 (GMT)
@Rol88- well 5 deaths (if you include RS) are a result of the ravine event which is clearly due to mechanical force or barotrauma not radioactivity.
Maybe the helicopter pilots had their suspicions about radiation and took a detector with them?




Rol88 12-05-2017 07:38 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : My point is that it is highly unlikely the threat could be just " natural" phenomenon , -whether it is GLO or something else - given the fact the hikers were hurt and killed in 2 or 3 separate events. Natural phenomenon tends to strike randomly . It looks like they were targeted . If we assume it was GLO well I have never read about a " natural" GLO killing 9 people ( or even 8 people ,death of Dyatlov seems to be real hypothermia ) . The Hessdalen site you mentioned has never reported a single human casualty despite the fact it is inhabited ! Now it might very well be some kind of experiment which went out of control due to incompetence or stupidity . The highly secretive attitude of the Soviet authorities towards the case is very suspicious . It looks like they knew more than what they said . How do you explain the searching helicopter landed with a Geiger device on its board ? Who or what gave them the idea there might be some amount of radioactivity on some of the bodies or the clothes ? Is a Geiger Muller device a standard item in the rescue equipment of people stranded in the wild ? Even the pilots knew something and refused 1st to embark the bodies. They did it under threat . DPI looks more related to deaths associated with UFO such as cattle and even human mutilation etc. Also it reminds me of a very troubling case which happened in Brazil in 1966 . Pls check " the Lead masks case " btw the victims were also radio technicians. ..
mkk 11-05-2017 22:53 (GMT)
@Brittany--I've wondered a lot about that. I haven't read anything about it, but it's curious.

Does he mean that he just couldn't find the time to write for the group? Or that he couldn't write while he was walking/skiing like in the pic of Zina? Or maybe he's just being intentionally irritating to the rest of the group, avoiding a responsibility he doesn't really like?

Or maybe it's something more serious and meaningful. I'm curious to hear other people's opinions and thoughts.
Brittany 11-05-2017 18:44 (GMT)
I don't know if this is relevant to the DPI, but I haven't seen it discussed here before. Do we know what NT was referring to in his journal entry on 1/26?

"I can't, although I tried."
HA42 11-05-2017 18:27 (GMT)
I have analyzed the pictures of the unknown camera. Hereby I have counted how often a person was taken a picture from. By that analysis the camera must have been in the hand of Slobodin or Krivonischenko, because they are only on 2 or 3 pictures. And whos camera it was, he was interested in Zinaida Kolmogorova. And here's the entire result.
Person Number of pictures on which the person is being fotographed
Kolevatov 5
Dyatlov 4
Kolmogorova 12
Doroschenko 6
Dubinina 10
Yuri Yudin 1
Opa 1
Krivonischenko 3
Zolotaryov 6
Thibeaux-Brignolles 6
Slobodin 2
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 17:13 (GMT)
@Rol88 - there's a nice quote on the viafanzine page below :-
The "Heinlein Razor" (or Hanlon) represents the claim about the likely role of human error in the causes of unpleasant events. It says, " Never attribute malice to what can be adequately explained by stupidity ." The principle is named after Robert A. Heinlein formulated this idea first in his "Logic of Empire" (1941). The idea that the world is governed by a far greater measure of stupidity and incompetence than by malice and malice has repeatedly sounded from the lips of great men like Goethe and Napoleon. But people are much easier to convince themselves with the idea of ​​a conspiracy than to make them believe that the world is governed purely by incompetence.
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 15:21 (GMT)
@Rol88 - i have to disagree with the "evil intelligence theory". As said below the ravine deaths (perhaps including RS's injuries) could be due to the collapse of the den (accident) and the returning three are due to cold possibly combined with other factors such as microwaves. It could be that the ball lightning itself only injured the two Yuris and was unconnected with anything else.
However it is true that some ball lightning events move towards people and two eye witnesses of lights in the dpi area talk of the lights behaving as if they know they were being observed which is interesting but no more than that. The answer lies in the science of the future. If you stand under a tree and lightning kills you it's not due to it having evil intelligence....
Rol88 11-05-2017 14:44 (GMT)
MB you're right, if the KGB wanted them dead they would have found a blunt, simple and brutal way to'' liquidate'' them . On the contrary , we see the trip was facilitated Big grinon't forget Krivo made a scene at Ivdel , was taken to the police station and released the same day ... We know that Zolotaryov who had nothing to do with the students was almost certainly a KGB agent . Dyatlov did not give the exact details of his route to the University which sponsored the trip.The strange decision of Dyatlov to pitch the tent in the middle of a barren slope in a blizzard ( an aberration !) many details point out to the fact the hikers were actually on a mission to observe or track some strange phenomena in the region. IMO these phenomena ,Globular lightning or whatever caused the demise of the hikers could not be ''natural''. The ''threat'' which drove them out of their tent was dangerous enough to cause the death of ALL of them . A '' Natural'' threat would have caused the death of one or two hikers but not the demise of ALL of them( even the bodies of some which allegedly died of hypothermia showed horrible lesions ie Slobodin had a cranial crack ,Kolevatov a broken neck , Krivo a 3rd degree burn and Doro burnt hair etc) there must be an evil intelligence behind this ''threat'' which pursued and killed the hikers . Now whether this malevolent ''intelligence'' is human or not is yet to be discovered.
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 14:08 (GMT)
@User45 - this is all i know - http://www.dyatlov-pass-incident.com/valentin-yakimenkos-study-groups-negatives/
User45 11-05-2017 14:05 (GMT)
@Nigel Is it known when all these pictures were taken (timeframe)?
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 13:17 (GMT)
@HA42 - apparently if you look even harder you can see a chicken. But i'm not sure the "demonic chicken" theory has a lot of legs...
HA42 11-05-2017 13:09 (GMT)
@User45
Here I can see the face of a man. You have to zoom in to see it.
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/manninderdunkel0avl1cki7s.png Here is the original picture 09 of Zolotaryovs camera:
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-10.jpg
Nigel Evans 11-05-2017 11:51 (GMT)
@MB - quite agree, imo if the KGB deemed the DPI to have any significance we would never have even heard of it. The only reason it was so well investigated is that there was a question mark wrt defection (relatively near the Finnish border) of the ravine four who took 3 months to find. In particular it sounds like AK had worked in sensitive areas and the state wanted to know that he had died not defected plus SZ of course. Once they had all the bodies they closed the investigation as it was of no further interest to the state. Apparently when the ravine four were discovered Ivanov didn't even bother visiting the location. No need to, he knew that their discovery had ended the investigation with a predetermined cause.
User45 11-05-2017 08:26 (GMT)
@HA42 Could you make a screenshot of your sightings for I can not see what you see. Thank you.
MB 11-05-2017 04:08 (GMT)
The problem with any of the KGB, etc theories is that it was 1959 in the Soviet Union. If the KGB wanted them dead, they would have shot them, announced them traitors, and there would be zero mystery, zero inquiry, zero surprise. It happened all the time.
The last thing Soviet government agents would do to hide a secret is to draw attention to the secret with an elaborate, inexplicable murder. 1000 times easier to put them on a train to Siberia where they would never be seen or heard from again, and anyone they knew too terrified to ask questions.
HA42 10-05-2017 23:21 (GMT)
On the picture Nr 9 of Zolotaryovs camera, you can see the face of a military guy with a hat and mustash smiling sadistic in the camera, just next to the white point in the lower middle part of the picture. You have to zoom in, in order to see it. It is, as if it was taken in the dark without any flash, so they don't find out, that he had a camera.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 20:55 (GMT)
@MB - they've still got to work inside the den, those seats were carefully constructed.
MB 10-05-2017 20:31 (GMT)
Its possible they moved to the ravine and built the shelter when the moon rose. I wish we had a better timeline.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 20:13 (GMT)
@MB - thinking on it further how did they build the den and kit it out with seats without some illumination? Must have been a third flashlight maybe now buried in the streams sediment? Whilst leaving one behind as a beacon makes sense, leaving your last one is less sensible perhaps.

@Lightning - thanks i think that's a recent update. Interesting that they can last for over 4 hours and this opinion that they come towards you if you look at them....
Lightning 10-05-2017 17:43 (GMT)
This page http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm which Nigel Evans posted here quite a long time ago. If you scroll down to all most at the end of the page you can see a picture of ball lightning that one hiking group took at the same site 2012. So i think these photos from 1959 are legit.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 17:07 (GMT)
@MB - maybe add the aurora to the list.
MB 10-05-2017 16:35 (GMT)
I think so, GLO or lightning storm with low clouds. Unless there was another flashlight that was never recovered, I dont see how there wasnt an odd light condition.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 16:08 (GMT)
@MB - well if the three heads photo is genuine then the GLO would be a good source of light which could be reflected from snowfall above and possibly the terrain around. So the moon could be unnecessary.
MB 10-05-2017 15:36 (GMT)
I'd say, but I dont think there's any question they fled the tent and were traveling well before moonrise. Even if it was a very clear night, it would be difficult and dangerous to travel in the dark by starlight.
Putting down that flashlight has to be explained- unless it died on them and it was intentionally dropped (and even that sounds reckless, you would hope to get a few flickers out of it after turning it off for a while in the cold). If it was left as a beacon, I have to think they had some other way to see.

It could be that some combination of Dyatlov, Kolmogorova, and Slobodin (and i dont think its a given they all set out together) headed back to the tent at moonrise when they could get their bearings, timing seems reasonable.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 15:22 (GMT)
@MB - good point. The autopsy said that they died 6-8 hours after their last meal and there is no sign that they had a meal in the tent except for some limited snacking on brisket (evidence of rinds). But then they couldn't have cooked a meal inside anyway so they might have just snacked on cold food only - biscuits and stuff. So whether time of death is before or after moonrise is difficult to ascertain?
MB 10-05-2017 14:37 (GMT)
@Nigel But the moon didn't begin to rise until after 2 in the morning. Unless the timeline of when they fled the tent is wrong, the moon wouldnt have helped them.

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/rstt/onedaytable?ID=AA&year=1959&month=2&day=2&place=&lon_sign=1&lon_deg=59&lon_min=27&lat_sign=1&lat_deg=61&lat_min=45&tz=3&tz_sign=1
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 14:10 (GMT)
@MB - I'm sticking with SZ's photos being genuine so what happens at the tent is that a GLO (and a pretty big one, maybe as big as a house or even a barn) parks itself outside the tent.

playing around with this link apparently there would have been approx a half moon that night. - https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases/russia/moscow?year=1959 So that moonlight on the snow on a clear night would suffice for visibility i think.
MB 10-05-2017 13:44 (GMT)
@Nigel All true, but you have to factor in the time component. I'm no meteorology expert, but perhaps its possible that a storm front blew up the mountain and would have passed over within an hour or so, dropping the temperature vastly. So this weird storm blows in (scary in itself) basically engulfing them in clouds, theres lightning and thunder all around, making it light enough to see by, something happens in the tent (perhaps a lightning strike and/or hail storm) and they flee for shelter. An hour or so later theyve gotten to the cedar, the storm moves past and its pitch black, so they climb the tree to try to spot the beacon flashlight or perhaps monitor the storm.
I just cant get passed those flashlights being left, particularly the second one. That was probably their single most important survival tool at that moment. Imo, they must have somehow had enough light to see by when they set down that second flashlight.
Nigel Evans 10-05-2017 10:22 (GMT)
@Lightning - good to hear someone is reading this stuff Happy
The more i consider the ravine injuries the more i realise the strangeness of them. Extensive fractures without bruising, or burst ear drums/lungs or broken limbs not even a collar bone, weird. Plus the asymmetry, SZ+LD chest fractures and nothing else, NTB skull fractures and nothing else. Imo it fits better with a localised "soft crushing impact" than barotrauma.

@MB - SZ's photos and the eye witness account from the ski party 50km south would seem to suggest a relatively clear night. That could have changed later on, the three heads photo does indicate a lot of horizontal snow - blizzard.
I don't think you'd abandon the tent because of hail, just prop up the tents's sides with ski poles and stuff to insulate yourself from the impacts. The investigation included mountain experts who would have spotted the signs i think. Also they climbed the cedar to monitor the tent area, like they were waiting on something there to go away. Good point about visibility but presumably they weren't in a blizzard/whiteout or no point in climbing the tree.
MB 09-05-2017 20:49 (GMT)
Another virtue of thundersnow- it lights up the night to the point where its like gloomy daytime (the low clouds/fog create an eerie low light effect). That would explain why they ignored the tent flashlight- they didnt need it, they could see. They placed the second flashlight as a beacon and were willing to move on without a flashlight, because they could see.
MB 09-05-2017 20:39 (GMT)
I like the thundersnow theory. We had a blizzard in Chicago a few years ago and there was thundersnow for over an hour, it lit up the sky as though there were firetrucks everywhere, red and blue lights under very low clouds. I believe it tends to happen around freezing but itself produces severe wind chills. That would line up with the footprints.

I would be terrified to be out of doors when that thing struck.

Thundersnow sometimes produces hail as well. Has that even been considered? Lightning might make people run for the woods, but large hail falling on an open plain certainly wood, and could explain some of the head injuries. A golf ball or larger chunk of hail can kill. Here's a link I found to of 200 skeletons discovered killed by a freak hail storm:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333648/Mystery-Skeleton-Lake-solved-Scientists-reveal-bones-edges-Indian-lake-belonged-hundreds-9th-century-tribesmen-died-freak-hail-storm.html
Lightning 09-05-2017 19:55 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans Yes, i'm aware of the positive lightning. I've read all of this page comments Big grin . Also positive lightning is responsible for "bolt from the blue".
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 19:05 (GMT)
@Lightning - yes i've considered most of that already, ctrl F this page for thundersnow / positive polarity lightning. The advantage with the "roof collapse" theory is that the explosive event doesn't have to be close, just near enough to induce the first collapse. If the roof was unstable then maybe a thunderclap half a mile away would do it.
The explosion only theory is less probable as it has to be quite close by.
Lightning 09-05-2017 17:45 (GMT)
He reports that LD, NTB and SZ ear passages are clean. So he checked ears and would have reported if ear drums were ruptured. Also i found interesting study about lightning blast wave. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2071438/study-on-lightning-blast-wave.pdf
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 17:14 (GMT)
@Lightning - no he did inspect the ears - http://ermakvagus.com/Europe/Russia/Cholat-%20Syachil/dyatlov_pass_incident_autopsy.html is the only translation of the original autopsy reports i've found online so far (scroll down a third of the page). Svetlana Oss has a translation out on amazon btw but i don't have it.
Lightning 09-05-2017 16:47 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans Could be, because in the autopsy report i didn't find anything about ear drum rupture. If the blast wave was strong enough to rupture the ribs it also could rupture the ear drums. Maybe the examiner didn't inspect eardrums. But why if he said that such a damage can only be result of an explosion? And why nobody examined the birds, their cause of death.
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 15:43 (GMT)
But the "roof falling in" theory doesn't explain the dead birds, so you'd still need an explosion but now it can be an aerial explosion at some distance from the den, and just big enough to shake the ravine and bring down the first fall.
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 14:54 (GMT)
Just thought of an alternative theory for the ravine deaths.

I've considered before now the question "what if the roof of the den simply collapsed on them?" and i've discounted this theory because surely it must have resulted in broken limbs the lack of which is one of the primary facts to resolve in the ravine event. What could fracture a rib cage (three times in LD's case) and not break limbs?

But what if there was a partial collapse followed shortly by bigger one? I.e. the ravine had a depth of 4 metres, so assuming that the den is a metre high (or so, just big enough to sit inside). Then say a metre of snow falls in on them, although it would weigh approx a tonne because it's just above their heads it simply pushes them off their seats and fills in (packs) the gaps between them as they wrestle with it. Then the rest of the roof above falls in. This is two metres thick and possibly wider (2 tonnes or more?) and importantly has a metre of space below it in order to accelerate before impact. This hits them like a sledgehammer but the limbs are protected by the snow around them resulting only in crushing injuries to the head and chest.
This would be a good explanation for SZ, LD and NTB, for AK i'd tweak the theory that he managed to get his head above the first fall before the second snapped his neck.

As to why the roof fell in? SZ was an experienced builder of snow dens of course so it's unlikely that it was built incorrectly. But there are several indications that the temperature of the snow was being raised nearer to it's melt point. It seems plausible that this weakened the structure of the snow above them. N.B. NTB was found with his jacket unzipped and his gloves in a pocket.

Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 13:30 (GMT)
@Lightning - thanks, i'd agree that military accident or BL are the only theories that work for me.
A problem with the military theory is that the ravine injuries seem to rule out the involvement of high explosive as blast lung is the most common HE injury in survivors (due to the supersonic wave) and the autopsies didn't report any. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_injury
Lightning 09-05-2017 12:34 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans Yours Big grin, because it considers all the facts. ( So called cold spot, footsteps didn't dissapear, type of injury- barotrauma, photos, eyewitness accounts- another hiking group 50 km away saw at DIP lights and heard a bang).

Another theories like infrasound only explains why they ran out of tent but not the injuries and ignores the eyewitness acounts and photos. Same with the avalanche theory and the others.

Could be a millitary test, but unlikely. So two possibilites- millitary test or BL.
Nigel Evans 09-05-2017 08:08 (GMT)
@Lightning - what's your favourite theory?
Lightning 08-05-2017 22:10 (GMT)
It would be interesting if someone creates a poll asking which theory people support.
Nigel Evans 08-05-2017 08:52 (GMT)
@mkk -
1. there have been several winter expeditions to the DP since the tragedy and they all report that it is impossible to replicate the persistence of the footsteps, that is they cannot make them last for more than 24/48 hours before the wind blows them away. The original footsteps lasted for 4 weeks before being found. One theory to explain this is that the snow was much less cold on that night and much closer to it's melt point. This together with subsequent refreezing explains how they became harder. It also fits in with the hot spot, the hardness of the snow on the tent and the signs of the ravine snow covering the bodies having softened and refrozen. I'm heartened that last video i posted about Hessdalen mentioned that with one of the visible events that lasted for minutes, an object at the same location had been transmitting at radar frequencies for over four hours. So this fits well with the microwave theory, that the whole area is bathed in microwave radiation across many frequencies and this wrt the dpi has the effect of raising the temperature of the snow closer to it's melt point. It might explain why although most of them didn't have footwear there is little sign of frostbite (save for the 2 yuris and that doesn't fit with it being frostbite imo).
2. Apparently in radio terms the human body acts as a lossy dipole with a resonant frequency that varies between vhf and uhf depending on size and gender.

So it's possible that this radiation could have an effect on ID's posture at death, i'd guess at electrical rather than heat energy as the muscles have to maintain the pose until the body freezes and there no sign of body heat melting the snow as in the case of RS.

Or he could just have died whilst trying to adjust his clothing of course Happy
mkk 08-05-2017 02:36 (GMT)
@Nigel--"with the microwave field debilitating them and bringing them to their knees as they try and ascend into it..." Any possibility that might account for Dyatlov's vaguely pugilistic-stance without noticeable surface burns? If microwaves (depending on the length?) heat muscles before surface tissue. (Not sure I'm understanding microwaves and their effects correctly)
Nigel Evans 07-05-2017 22:58 (GMT)
Good video on Hessdalen suggesting (imo) that lights and ufos are different versions of the same thing.
Don't miss the end from 39.00, nice "string of pearls" and what seems to be the current scientific knowledge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKlwlYiXuic
Nigel Evans 07-05-2017 12:32 (GMT)
@Lightning - Hi, checkout http://ball-lightning.info/ if you haven't seen it before.

As to their cause lets not forget that our science cannot currently explain them.
So we're in the domain of conjecture.
Empirically it's my guess is that any atmospheric phenomena that creates an electron avalanche can result in ball lightning - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche, once you have the ionisation then the effects follow from it.

There is clearly a connection with the frequency of witnessed accounts with locality e.g. Hessdalen and Dyatlov so some ground effect might be involved, possibly metal ore, e.g. Hessdalen is a very ore rich area. But there is conjecture of some other phenomena - a geo motor creating earthquake lights etc. Lets not forget Tunguska is impossible to explain with a bolide only theory.

As to your question wrt cloudless night/no storm don't forget we're talking about macro atmospheric events here, people have been killed by lightning on a sunny day with hardly a cloud in the sky "a bolt out of the blue" - http://www.iflscience.com/environment/world-record-longest-ever-lightning-bolt-shocks-scientists/ n.b. this the longest currently recorded, nature has probably exceeded this by an order of magnitude.

But wrt the DPI, i think the evidence is strong that a BL event (as photographed by SZ and reported by another ski party) injured the two Yuris forcing the group to withdraw to the forest in the expectation of returning quickly. This didn't happen and subsequently the two Yuris die of their injuries. The ravine deaths are caused either by ball lightning exploding or a powerful lightning bolt hitting the stream and creating an explosion in the snowbank. The deaths of the remaining three are due to cold with the microwave field debilitating them and bringing them to their knees as they try and ascend into it (they expire within 330 metres of each other with facial scratches, signs of vomiting).


Lightning 07-05-2017 10:44 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans. But the problem with the Handel's Maser-Soliton Theory of ball lightning doesn't explain how it can form without storm. There are several reports that it has occured in cloudless night without any storm. http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/bl.html Several reports on this webpage.
Nigel Evans 06-05-2017 18:23 (GMT)
@Rol88 - have a look at this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning N.B. the word "microwave" occurs 27 times.

My favourite is the Handel Maser-Soliton theory. My theory (and perhaps of others i don't know) is that (wrt the dpi) the high winds reproduced horizontally what happens vertically in thunderstorms, i.e. creating seperation of charge between the clouds and the ground. But instead of this discharging as lightning the wind vortices move this ionisation in effect reproducing a magnetron generating microwaves which bounce between the earth and the sky as in a waveguide. These waves interfere with each other and by a process similar to aquatic rogue waves a soliton forms that is persistent.

But the answer lies in the future.

Good point about the burnt clothes, but that might be answered by the human bodies acting as aerials with a resonant frequency creating very localised heat on and within the body.

I wouldn't expect the bamboo pole to be scorched the internal moisture just has to expand and it will split.
Rol88 06-05-2017 16:30 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans: I have never heard of this GLO microwave theory you keep on referring to . I only read about : 1- The chemical theory 2- The plasma theory which seems to be the most pertinent . I also read that some Israeli guys were able to generate some micro GLOs ( which lasted few microseconds) by putting a block of Silicium in a modified microwave. That doesn't mean that GLOs are actually generating microwaves...Or do they ? Please enlighten us.I would appreciate you tell us more about it
Anyway IF it was the case why the damp fabrics of the clothes and the leather of the boots- which both retain moisture thus making them heat fast when exposed to microwaves -left inside the tent were intact ? Also in reference to the broken bamboo pole , it did not display any scorched patch . Unlike the burnt clothes found on some of the hikers BTW. But it could have been electrical burns from lightning as well sustained under the treeline .
Nigel Evans 06-05-2017 12:54 (GMT)
@Rol88 - coming back to you wrt the electrical burns in the tent and there being no sign of burning on the tent or it's contents.

What if their injuries were not electrical burns but microwave burns? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn This explains how they were injured in the tent without any burning elsewhere. The tent fabric would perhaps have got hot but not enough to discolour as it would take longer to heat up being colder and with a covering of snow, the damp cavities within the bamboo pole heated quickly and split it.
Perhaps the radiation was only intense at one end of the tent as the BL passed near, just affecting the pole and two occupants who in effect shielded the others.
Now you have your reason for cutting the tent open and getting everyone out as fast as possible.

@Kac - you copy and paste the image's url and when you click submit the website converts it into a link that people can click on.
E.g. - http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-12.jpg
Kac 06-05-2017 05:20 (GMT)
First i am curious what the religions of member of the group were if known?
Second is there a way to post two pictures? There are 2 pictures on cora hull website of an angled looking object and i noticed how very similiar they look to the black knight satellite. Thank u
mkk 05-05-2017 20:44 (GMT)
@Nigel-- Impressive internet searching; thanks!!
Nigel Evans 05-05-2017 10:33 (GMT)
@testinger - the book "Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secrets" lists all it's references at the back (121) virtually all of them are links to Russian web sites.
Nigel Evans 05-05-2017 10:19 (GMT)
@testinger - sorry i mixed up you and MB Happy
Nigel Evans 05-05-2017 10:18 (GMT)
@MB - yes that's a good source of original transcripts.

@mkk - i've found your almanac look at - http://fond-dyatlov.livejournal.com/ in google translate.

Apparently the first print run was sold out...
testinger 05-05-2017 00:05 (GMT)
Thanks, Nigel, for clarifying state of flashlights as found:
1. Flashlight at tent, switch in OFF position, working.
2. Flashlight some way down the slope, switch in ON position, not working.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/ is exactly what I was looking for, but I am also dependent on Google Translate. It seems that Chrome's built in translation option does not return the same results as Google's manual translate tool: https://translate.google.com For Example:
that 100 meters below the tent was found a flashlight turned on with battery burned that belonged to someone who died of the participants group.
Becomes:
that about 100 meters below the tent was found an electric flashlight in the switched on state with a burnt out battery belonging to one of the participants of the deceased group.
which I prefer, because it is less ambiguous.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 19:37 (GMT)
@MB - just to confirm i'm talking about two flashlights :-
1.left on the tent switched off.
2. the other left down the slope switched on with a drained battery.

N.B. There seems to be some difference of opinion from members of the rescue party as to (2) distance from the tent 100 or 400 metres.

Imo (1) was the toilet flashlight that they didn't have time to collect. and (2) was deliberately placed as a beacon for the return to the tent.

As you say it's an important pivotal point, imo the facts point to that they had to flee the tent immediately but from a threat that didn't pursue them down the slope and that they expected to go away enabling their return, hence the beacon.

MB 04-05-2017 16:40 (GMT)
Nigel thats an interesting point- whether that tent flashlight was left on or off is a critical point either way. Consider:

-If it was turned on when found, it was obviously left as a beacon. No other reason to leave a perfectly good flashlight in the dead of night.
-If it was turned off, you're probably right, it was left there in case anyone needed to leave the tent in the night. The only alternative would be that it was placed there turned off out of hand as they fled the tent, which is crazy.
-Now if it WAS turned off, why didnt anybody think to pick it up knowing that 'thats where we keep the flashlight' as they are leaving the tent. That gives you an important indication of their state of mind, quite aside from abandoning their boots and clothes so abruptly. Just grabbing that flashlight would be a high priority in the dead of night, frightened by something. But nobody did. Either they fled in such a panic (which the tracks dont support) that they didnt have 2 seconds to grab a critical source of light, or *something about the tent made it impossible or unsafe*. That would perhaps support the fire/smoke filled tent theory.

-Now if we suppose the flashlight was left on, it was surely placed there and left intentionally. If someone was willing to do that, why werent they willing to reach in the tent and grab whatever gear was at hand? You have a flashlight, there are gaping holes in the tent, you stop to put the flashlight on top of the tent (obviously with the knowledge youre about to leave the tent vicinity), but you dont think to grab a blanket or valenki or just some random stuff that would be in arms reach? You have the presence of mind and critical seconds to place a flashlight, but not to do anything else.

Doesnt resolve much, but whether that flashlight was on or off sends your down two different theory paths I think.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 16:17 (GMT)
@mkk - apparently the newspaper - "Tagil Worker" that published the eye witness account of the colliery manager of the "lights and explosions" got into trouble because military testing did take place and was top secret of course and definately not for reporting. Which hints at the paranoia of those times, so it's easy to see how management would play safe and assume everything was a state secret even if it wasn't.

Playing with google translate i get multiple versions of "выгоревшей," as burnt out or faded. So i'll assume they mean a discharged battery unless any Russian speakers tell me otherwise.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 15:56 (GMT)
Thinking about flashlights it suddenly occurred to me what the purpose of the other flashlight found on the tent outside could be.

Perhaps it was for trips to the toilet in the night.

The first rule of trekking is that if you need to go to the toilet "for a dump" then you take a shovel to dig a hole and put some decent distance between you and the campsite.

So if you want to do this in the middle of the night when everyone is asleep then rather than have people searching for a flashlight that may have been placed anywhere by the last person to use it, it is kept at the agreed place preferably just outside the entrance so that people are less disturbed when you turn it on.

That's why it was found on top of 10cm of snow, as people used it it was placed back on top of the snow.

Apparently all seven of the felt boots (valenki) were found placed along the side of the tent that didn't suffer the slits. It makes sense that as part of the same "toilet procedure" they would keep these boots at the bottom of their designated "bed" (i'm assuming that they slept tranversely and all in the same direction Laughing to easily reach them in the dark. Then they would step over their sleeping comrades, open the entrance and find the "toilet flashlight" outside ready to use. Doubly important of course in whiteout conditions. It may be even that they turned the torch on and left it at the tent illuminating the snow and only went away as far as they could still see it.

The fact that these felt boots organised down the side of the tent were left behind (with this torch) really does indicate the speed at which they abandoned the tent. You would only need a couple of seconds to reach down and pick them up.

Also wrt my last post does anyone speak Russian? I'd love a more detailed translation of "burned battery", burnt or discharged? Microwaves?
mkk 04-05-2017 15:45 (GMT)
@Nigel-- Sure, I agree to those points. There's no way everything was totally square and above-board with the investigation. I didn't mean to imply that. I was speaking more to the idea that "the government knows the real truth and they're hiding it." (Not that I'm accusing you of promoting that idea, but I've read posts that seem to say that.)

There's a distinct feel of uncertainty about the whole thing. Authorities seemed confused and edgy, uncertain which information to suppress and which to allow. If they were determined to cover it up completely, they would have. They would have gotten in there before the amateur rescue crews arrived, wiped it clean, and invented a plausible story for the whole thing. At the very least, they would have prepared a reasonable explanation for the deaths and then stuck to it.

In mystery novels, the plot is often made more circuitous and involved because innocent characters are hiding something and inadvertently thwart the efforts of the detectives. Weirdly, the government efforts at concealment have a similar feel about them. With a bit of tongue-in-cheek, I'm attributing it to the habitual MO communist authorities, but it may be something much more interesting.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 12:51 (GMT)
@MB - putting this link - https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/dopros-svidetela-atmanaki through google translate gives :-
"in addition, that 100 meters below the tent was found a flashlight turned on with battery burned that belonged to someone who died of the participants group. "

Hence the view that it was left at that position to assist the groups return.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2017 08:10 (GMT)
@mkk - two reasons to believe in a coverup :-
1. Ivanov was told to desist from investigating fireballs and to remove all evidence for them from his report.
2. If the photos attributed to SZ are genuine then there MUST be more, YK's camera was on a tripod.

It could be an "innocent" coverup, i.e. middle ranking officers assuming that the fireballs were man made and playing safe with their jobs.
Or otherwise.

@MB - i'm not sure about the flasdhlight being turned off, it's not mentioned here - http://ermakvagus.com/Europe/Russia/Cholat-%20Syachil/Kholat%20Syakhl.htm
mkk 04-05-2017 00:55 (GMT)
I've been perusing Svetlana Oss's site http://www.svetlanaoss.com/blog/category/dyatlov-pass/ She has some interesting things to say about the matter, and has obviously done a lot of research. I haven't read everything on the site--and I haven't read her book--but she does seem to have a pretty good grasp of the historical/cultural elements at the time of the DPI. I particularly appreciate her explanation of why she doesn't believe it was a cover-up of a government mistake: in short, it wasn't covered up well enough.

I have often thought something similar myself. It's as if the government's knee-jerk response was to squelch too many questions, but they didn't really know what they were supposed to be covering up.

An imaginary conversation high up in government some time afterward:
"Why did you go to so much trouble to try to cover it up?"
"Well, if you'd done it, wouldn't you want it covered up?"
"But no one did it--it was just lightning!"
"How was I to know that? I was just doing my job!"

http://www.svetlanaoss.com/blog/dyatlov-pass/why-i-dont-believe-that-the-dyatlov-pass-incident-was-a-cover-up/
testinger 04-05-2017 00:51 (GMT)
Thanks, MB, for pointing out my error. I am sorry. The flashlights were in the off position when found, as stated clearly here:
http://dyatlov-pass.com/tent On the top of the tent under 5-10 cm of snow lay Dyatlov's flashlight (made in China). Boris Slobtzov picked it up and turned it on - the flashlight was in working condition.
Second flashlight was found switched off and battery discharged 400m down the slope.

So that leaves only the lack of footprints, and the fact that the hikers built a fire where it would reveal their location, as arguments against human attacker(s). The additional footprints might have been missed, if they were only near the tent, and the attackers skied in the hikers' tracks. Perhaps the reason for the the climbing of the cedar tree was to keep a lookout and alert the others if the attackers were coming. The attackers may have slept in the tent and cut their way out in the morning, simply because it was easier than going through the door. And there are many other attack scenarios that would result in the tent being cut from the inside. Imagination runs wild.
MB 03-05-2017 19:28 (GMT)
testinger, thats a great thought on the flashlights, but the flashlight on the tent was found turned off and still working by the searchers. The one further down the slope was supposedly found turned off as well, but wasnt working (perhaps it was thrown away in frustration).
MB 03-05-2017 19:13 (GMT)
I find it interesting that Slobodin and Kolevatov had matches... and not the two that died by the cedar tree fire.
I think that suggests they intentionally split the matches, and very likely at the cedar tree. The Kolevatov group continued down the slope and fell into a ravine. Slobodin perhaps went back to the tent to gather supplies (inadvertently carrying off the matches) he falls, hits his head, and freezes.
Doroshenko and Krivonischenko freeze to death, Kolmogorova and Dubinina split the clothing of the dead and try to make for the tent, dying in route.
Nigel Evans 02-05-2017 21:48 (GMT)
@testinger - but you have several eye witness accounts and photographs already of the dyatlov lights from that era?

I'm surprised that with the Hessdalen lights, given they have been so repeatable that they're not sending up drones with cameras and sensors, seems an obvious step. Unless high winds are a common associated factor of course...

Personally i'd like to know the microwave profile as you get close to these lights.
testinger 02-05-2017 21:12 (GMT)
Since the hikers, seemingly acting carefully to allow themselves to find their way back to the tent, left one flashlight on at the tent, and a second one ~420m down the slope ( http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-flashlight.jpg), and since they built a fire at the edge of the woods, and since no tracks other than theirs were found, they were probably not fleeing a person, or people. Since whatever caused them to leave the tent, caused them to leave immediately, without the few seconds delay required to put on their boots or to take turns going out through the door, the threat must have been perceived to be certainly presently deadly. Furthermore, once outside the tent, the threat was such as to prevent them from going back inside the tent for any gear. Even a nausea and panic inducing infra sound event, as severe as the worst flu, or worse, would probably allow some of the hikers to get their boots. If the tent had only filled up with smoke from something burning, they would have seen, once outside, that the tent was not on fire, and waited for the smoke to dissipate before going back inside. A single, brief ball lightning event, probably would not be enough to cause them to flee without footwear, but if there was occurring a persistent ball lightning, for some reason attracted to the tent, or multiple ball lightnings, attracted to, or even arising within, the tent, that could have been surprising enough, and unfamiliar enough, that everyone there was sufficiently terrified, and or possibly even literally shocked. But the ball lightning theory seems testable, by placing detectors at the location of the tent, for the duration of a winter, or even for several years. Since ball lightning is visible, could you not just use a camera and some software which looks for glowing circular shapes, filtering out the sun and moon? The cameras and a computer could be solar powered, and the data could be offloaded wirelessly, no? Probably I am naive, and missing the reasons why this would not work, but it is terrible, not knowing.
Nigel Evans 02-05-2017 16:32 (GMT)
@Roll88 - yes i wouldn't be surprised if the Soviets were trying to induce and control the phenomena, i.e. weaponise it and wanted ground observers.
Then it all went wrong and they ordered Ivanov to remove fireballs from his report.
But i think the danger with the DPI lights is due to it's composition which suggests differences with Hessdalen.
Interesting section at the beginning of this video about treetops - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0tbOLtv_mI Less interesting afterwards.
Rol88 02-05-2017 15:18 (GMT)
@mkk great news ! @Nigel Evans : What a coincidence ! Few days ago I posted you a message suggesting the GLO could have been man made . At least it does give some explanation why the hikers seemed to have been literally ''targeted'' by a natural phenomenon . What is striking is the fact that in the Norwegian locality of Hessdalen which is at the same latitude with Mount Kholyat , GLOs are very frequently observed but unlike on mount Kholyat there has never been any casualties (despite the fact the Hessdalen region does have some population unlike Mt Kholyat )
User45 02-05-2017 12:10 (GMT)
What a coincidence. Published at the same exact minute. Lol. Thanks.
User45 02-05-2017 12:09 (GMT)
@nigel I'm sorry, but where exactly at Camera should I look at? I can not find a picture titled ''three head''
Nigel Evans 02-05-2017 12:09 (GMT)
@User45 - if you haven't found it use this link - http://dyatlov-pass.com/controversy#zolotaryovcamera
Nigel Evans 02-05-2017 09:45 (GMT)
@User45 - checkout the "three heads" photo under CAMERAS.
User45 02-05-2017 08:42 (GMT)
A question; exactly what picture is showing the supposed ball of lightning?
User45 02-05-2017 08:06 (GMT)
'' In the researcher's opinion, the version of the group's having ties with the KGB is also supported by the fact that only four of the ten rolls of film from all the cameras have remained and it is unknown what happened to the rest. ''

What I would give to obtain those rolls...
Nigel Evans 01-05-2017 21:27 (GMT)
@mkk - it's new to me.
mkk 01-05-2017 21:08 (GMT)
https://www.sott.net/article/322880-Researcher-claims-Dyatlov-pass-mystery-victims-could-have-been-on-KGB-mission very similar write-up: http://www.our-russia.com/22072016234636/title-not-yet Anyone have information whether this proposed "almanac" has been published?
Nigel Evans 30-04-2017 16:14 (GMT)
@Rol88 - yes it is possible that the GLO's were man made, as stated before military hardware like parachute flares/mines (or something like that) does fit a lot of the evidence. Except of course that there were no signs of military hardware. But it was extremely windy so could have blown away.

Wrt the intoxication theory they demonstrate quite logical ordered behaviour, built a fire and a den, laid out the two Yuris side by side showing respect, SZ found trying to write in his notebook.
Nigel Evans 30-04-2017 16:00 (GMT)
@Rol88 - I'm afraid i'm going to have to challenge your facts here :-

From wikipedia :-

12-year-old Yury Kuntsevich, who would later become head of the Yekaterinburg-based Dyatlov Foundation (see below), attended five of the hikers' funerals, and recalls their skin had a "deep brown tan".[2]
Another group of hikers (about 50 kilometres south of the incident) reported that they saw strange orange spheres in the night sky to the north on the night of the incident.[2] Similar spheres were observed in Ivdel and adjacent areas continually during the period from February to March 1959, by various independent witnesses (including the meteorology service and the military).[2]

So the coffins were not closed.
N.B. the eye witness accounts of the lights include explosions.

My understanding of the pilot's statement was that he thought he saw two bodies lying outside the tent before it was found. Not that it was surrounded by soldiers, can you point to were this is stated?

The boot cover could have been mislaid by the rescue group or mansi hunters that kept some kit when they returned from service. It's not a strong piece of evidence.





Rol88 30-04-2017 15:16 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans :Anyway these supposed GLO seem to be too ''intelligent'' in pursuing and burning the hikers. Have it ever occured to you it MIGHT have been experimental man made GLOs tested as weapons ? KGB may have cynically sent these youth as guinnea pigs or something went out very wrong ...
Another interesting theory which was not explored thoroughly : Food intoxication due to contamination by hallucinogenic ergot or some other substance. I don't know if any test was performed on the food they had before the events break up ... It would very much explain their erratic behaviour in the night .
Rol88 30-04-2017 14:56 (GMT)
Nigel Evans : The replacement of the prosecutor, the interest of 2 presidents and the ''story'' of the high officers are relevant enough to point out against your GLO theory , simply because they make you suspect a simpler and more brutal death of the hikers ie military or KGB liquidation and cover-up : Let me put it this way , if someone gets electrocuted by a lightning in a trip to the mountains there will be a very straightforward and short inquiry , no officer would be demoted, the verdict would be cristal clear , no president would follow the inquiry because it is a casual accident
and everybody would be allowed to see the body and pay respect, even in the USSR.
.In this case what did we see instead ? the 1st prosecutor was decommissioned days later ( Forget about Ivanov's declaration he was the servant of the System and would write exactly what he is told ) , 2 presidents found the case strange enough to closely follow the case, the bodies were delivered in sealed metal coffins with no permission to open them ,an officer comes to the funeral of Dubinina and tells a story about a GLO which did not hurt anyone ...
And when you add to all these points the fact that a pilot saw from his plane ( and reported it ) the tent surrounded by soldiers days before the rescuer party ( who BTW found a boot cover , an item used only by soldiers) among the items in the tent and the fact that soldiers came with a Geiger device to test radioactivity on the corpses one must admit the Soviet authorities knew - at least partially- beforehand what happened to the hikers.
And what happened could very much be something more than a casual accident due to natural meteorological phenomena such as lightning or GLO strike(s) otherwise all the aforementioned measures taken by the the Soviet authorities would not have been necessary....
Nigel Evans 29-04-2017 12:34 (GMT)
Rol88 - answering your against points

1- No scorched fabric in the tent so how come 2 hikers were badly burned by GLO and the tent did not display even one mm2 of burned fabric ?
Perhaps they were burnt outside the tent then? I don't see how this is argues againt the GLO theory, just a detail.

2- The fact they left the tent in good order : if a GLO turns into a ''roller'' and heads to your tent at the speed of 5-6 m/s , or even explodes few meters away, well, you won't leave your tent -barefoot !- in good order... But again, Dyatlov left his jacket and torch behind, next to the tent which doesn't plead much for the '' organized temporary retreat '' ...
Perhaps there weren't any rollers. The GLO theory doesn't depend on them, maybe there were two aerial objects an hour or so apart.

3- GLOs , according to many testimonies, are limited phenomena in time (few sec to few min max) and number ( usually one GLO per observation) Most of the encounters with GLOs leave the witnesses unharmed even if in some few cases one witness is burned or hurt, It is extremely unlikely a GLO 'strikes'' the tent or next to it burning 2 hikers , another GLO or lightning pursue the hikers to the cedar tree and burn its apex then again explodes in the den, thus generating the horrible lesions of Thibeaux ,Zolotaryov and Dubinina . If this incident was due to orbs , then one must assume these orbs or GLOs were not natural phenomena striking or moving randomly but that some malevolent intelligence was behind these '' surgical targeted strikes''
This is a good point, the ability of GLOs to target people is well documented and can only be properly explained in the future when there is a proper scientific explanation for them (not currently). I would guess at the metal content of mammals together with their electric nervous system interfering with the "microwave standing wave system" such that they act as attractions. But just my guess, until science can answer what these objects are then we're left with only the empirical fact that GLOs do exhibit targeting behaviour.

4- As for what the officer confided to the victim's parents it could very much be a story to divert their suspiscions from a KGB ''operation'' . I lived once in a country run by a foreign intelligence service and I know what I am talking about : in order to keep people away of their dirty deeds and divert their attention elsewhere , they would make up now and then a new bogus '' story '' a scandal, such as : singers or celebrities caught practicing group sex , a new satanist sect in the country etc and so on .... the story of the officer could very much be a fairy tale ....
I refer you to my previous post, you have to explain why they were afraid to remain at the tent but unafraid to light a fire 1500 meres away.

5- The fact President Khrutchev is said to have personally followed the inquiry
So did Boris Yeltsin. I don't see how this is against the GLO theory?

6- the 1st chief prosecutor was decommissioned days after he opened the inquiry if they were struck by lightning or ''normal'' GLO s so why all this paranoid secrecy ...
Not relevant to the GLO theory imo.

Imo Soviet authorities know much more than what they are willing to say . They are at least partially responsible to what happened to the hikers. The extent of their responsibility is yet to be defined . We will never know what really happened because some of the clues are still kept secret , some others were purposely flawed . I heard Keith Mcloskey on Youtube and he spoke a lot about the culture of secrecy in USSR . Some reminiscence is still lingering in Russian Federation until now....
For sure there was a culture of secrecy, but not relevant to the GLO/not GLO question imo.
Nigel Evans 29-04-2017 12:17 (GMT)
gtulloch/Rol88 - one of the fascinating questions of the dpi is what threat could have made them leave the shelter of the tent (that is afraid to stay there) but unafraid to light a fire 1500 metres away?"
This seems to rule out many types of threat, basically from any intelligence be it human or non human (yetis/aliens etc).
This single fact very strongly suggests some form of natural threat such as the one in SZ's photographs - presumed to be ball lightning. This was the conclusion of Ivanov the head of the investigation and the opinion of the local mansi people.
Rol88 29-04-2017 11:31 (GMT)
The teargas theory is interesting it would have been easy to toss a tergas bomb in the tent from the tent's entrance but again doesn't fit the absence of footsteps other than the hikers on the snow. It seems that 2 of t he group went out to relieve themselves , maybe Zolotaryov and Thibeaux because they were better dressed. By the way did anyone notice the tent entrance does NEVER show on any Photo taken ? A very strange detail.....
gtulloch 29-04-2017 08:55 (GMT)
@Roll88 I thought about the gunpoint idea as well, but the rips from the interior of the tent didn't fit well to the theory. It also doesn't explain all the rest of the findings as thoroughly.
gtulloch 29-04-2017 08:50 (GMT)
@Roll88~I didn't mention ball lightning. I suspect a chemical gas, like tear gas in the tent and everyone evacuates, unable to see and breath, thus extremely vulnerable. Several of the bodies had bled from the nose and lips, and two had fluid in their lungs, and the two that were outside the tent either ran from the attackers or were the attackers.
Rol88 29-04-2017 07:35 (GMT)
@ The search party found an unusual item among the hikers's in the tent : A military boot cover. Yuri Yudin said it did not belong to any of the hikers. It seems that soldiers were behind what happened or at least ''visited '' the tent before the searching party...
Rol88 29-04-2017 07:23 (GMT)
@gtulloch the ball lightning theory does not explain everything. If they left the tent ''in good order'' then it looks as if someone drove them out of it under gunpoint. The only thing is that there is no evidence of extra footsteps on the snow but again it happened in USSR and this is what they want us to believe !
gtulloch 29-04-2017 05:26 (GMT)
Tear gas-When people are hit at close range or are severely exposed, eye injuries involving scarring of the cornea can lead to a permanent loss in visual acuity
gtulloch 29-04-2017 05:23 (GMT)
From one of the people in the party or from someone on the outside. I feel the theories involving either the CIA or KGB to be most plausible as to the why. The party may have even been blinded, thus they could not find the way back to their supplies. The possible removal of tongue and eyes would maybe indicate an effort to hide evidence of chemical burns.
gtulloch 29-04-2017 05:19 (GMT)
An idea about the tent. Question what would cause them to leave by ripping the sides of the tent not through the entrance? Smoke? Tear gas? Tear gas works by irritating mucous membranes in the eyes, nose, mouth and lungs, and causes crying, sneezing, coughing, difficulty breathing, pain in the eyes, and temporary blindness. Which would explain cutting the sides of the tent to get out, the burns on the victims, leaving with only underclothes and the subsequent disorientation of the party. Where did it come from?
Rol88 28-04-2017 20:44 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans :Look, I really like the GLO( or UFO ?) theory but it doesn't explain all the facts. Some facts do plead for and some, but others against .For : 1- The 4m diam solidified ice surface near the tent 2- The camera of YK on the make shift tripod 3- the broken bamboo ski pole 4- to some -limited- extent the -damaged- film of Semen Zolotaryov showing lights on a dark background but again the film was damaged after 3 months under melting snow and many consider it worthless 5- the burn lesions on the bodies of Krivo and Doro 6- The testimonies of the other hikers group who saw light orbs. 7- The officer who came to the funeral and ''confided'' to the victims parents that soldiers camping there were ''attacked'' by orbs , hid in the tent and survived. Against :1- No scorched fabric in the tent so how come 2 hikers were badly burned by GLO and the tent did not display even one mm2 of burned fabric ? 2- The fact they left the tent in good order : if a GLO turns into a ''roller'' and heads to your tent at the speed of 5-6 m/s , or even explodes few meters away, well, you won't leave your tent -barefoot !- in good order... But again, Dyatlov left his jacket and torch behind, next to the tent which doesn't plead much for the '' organized temporary retreat '' ... 3- GLOs , according to many testimonies, are limited phenomena in time (few sec to few min max) and number ( usually one GLO per observation) Most of the encounters with GLOs leave the witnesses unharmed even if in some few cases one witness is burned or hurt, It is extremely unlikely a GLO 'strikes'' the tent or next to it burning 2 hikers , another GLO or lightning pursue the hikers to the cedar tree and burn its apex then again explodes in the den, thus generating the horrible lesions of Thibeaux ,Zolotaryov and Dubinina . If this incident was due to orbs , then one must assume these orbs or GLOs were not natural phenomena striking or moving randomly but that some malevolent intelligence was behind these '' surgical targeted strikes'' 4- As for what the officer confided to the victim's parents it could very much be a story to divert their suspiscions from a KGB ''operation'' . I lived once in a country run by a foreign intelligence service and I know what I am talking about : in order to keep people away of their dirty deeds and divert their attention elsewhere , they would make up now and then a new bogus '' story '' a scandal, such as : singers or celebrities caught practicing group sex , a new satanist sect in the country etc and so on .... the story of the officer could very much be a fairy tale .... 5- The fact President Khrutchev is said to have personally followed the inquiry 6- the 1st chief prosecutor was decommissioned days after he opened the inquiry if they were struck by lightning or ''normal'' GLO s so why all this paranoid secrecy ... Imo Soviet authorities know much more than what they are willing to say . They are at least partially responsible to what happened to the hikers. The extent of their responsibility is yet to be defined . We will never know what really happened because some of the clues are still kept secret , some others were purposely flawed . I heard Keith Mcloskey on Youtube and he spoke a lot about the culture of secrecy in USSR . Some reminiscence is still lingering in Russian Federation until now....
Nigel Evans 28-04-2017 15:39 (GMT)
@Rol88 - "Was it the observation of special phenomena in the sky or contact with US spies ?"

Well you don't need a second camera to make contact with US spies, his mission was to observe special phenomena in the sky and photograph it. The photos suggest that is what he did.
Lightning 28-04-2017 15:38 (GMT)
@ROL88 It didn't hit the tent directly. There was a cold spot some distance away. A place where snow had melt and freeze again, diameter about 4 meters. As Nigel Evans stated before.
Rol88 28-04-2017 14:54 (GMT)
Sorry guys posted it twice !
Rol88 28-04-2017 14:52 (GMT)
@Lightning : If the tent was struck with lightning they would have barely found its ashes ! It would had immediately set the tent ablaze !
Rol88 28-04-2017 14:52 (GMT)
@Lightning : If the tent was struck with lightning they would have barely found its ashes ! It would had immediately set the tent ablaze !
Rol88 28-04-2017 14:46 (GMT)
User45 : Good point Thibeaux promised his Mom it would be his last expedition as if it were his last mission ? Nigel Evans Why the secrecy .? Almost certainly because the Soviet auhorities unofficially commissioned some of the hikers a special mission. Was it the observation of special phenomena in the sky or contact with US spies ? Again we will never know . One thing is for sure , KGB was behind and watching closely . After all the hike was dedicated to the 21st Meeting of the USSR Communist Party...
Lightning 28-04-2017 09:51 (GMT)
Maybe they weren't running out of tent because i was taught at school when there is lightning you must not run and you don't want to be in open field or under single tree. Their tent was in open field and 1079 above sea level.
Nigel Evans 26-04-2017 11:52 (GMT)
@User 45 - " It makes me think that some members knew what this expedition would mean but did not expect the particular outcome of it"

Almost certainly. The fact that Yudin did not know about SZ's camera (or it's purpose) suggests that only some members knew. I would guess at SZ, ID, AK and YK.

A more interesting question is why the secrecy? Why deceive other members of the group?
User45 26-04-2017 10:38 (GMT)
(Yuri Alexeevich Krivonischenko - Georgiy)

1)''working in Chelyabinsk - 40 a secret nuclear facility''
2)''His body will wear clothes that have traces of radioactivity that some trace to this particular event ''

I find this very odd. The background stories from some members are very sucpecious leading up to the Kholat events. It makes me think that some members knew what this expedition would mean but did not expect the particular outcome of it. ''Nikolai promised his mother that this would be his last hiking trip''



Nigel Evans 25-04-2017 17:17 (GMT)
@User45 - hi, glad someone's reading this Happy

Apparently the KGB archives for this period are kept locked for some time to come (2030?) but in the future could become public domain. So there might be an answer one day.

It's almost certain that photos or even complete camera rolls were hidden from the report. Ivanov said that material was removed and expressed his guilt at not giving relatives closure. What could this material be other than photos? If SZ's are genuine then there have to be more, YK's camera was on a tripod. They cut several slits to observe something. It's a no brainer imo.
User45 25-04-2017 12:27 (GMT)
@nigel @rest... Thank you for keeping this subject alive and discuss the things we need to talk about. I come back every day to read about your theories and missing/new information!

I believe this is a story that will never be solved but will always be talked about for that exact reason.

A question of my own: All the camera's were found except for the one which could've captured the very last moments of the crew. It is still not found to this day. Any update on this?
Nigel Evans 24-04-2017 08:26 (GMT)
@mkk - good point but the main factor with the dpi will be wind chill. One local man stating that the wind was the worst he had known since moving there in 1951 (8 years earlier). The mansi told the investigators that the wind could be so strong it could blow man away. The last photographs indicate very strong winds.
In a similar vein, has anyone noticed that the two Yuris seem to suffer the worst frostbite even though they die first?
My guess is that the frostbite is misdiagnosed and is blackening from burning.
mkk 23-04-2017 21:16 (GMT)
Just wanted to comment on their leaving the tent without proper clothing. In the group diary, Dyatlov records the low temps for Jan 31 as "-18C to -24C". That's about 0F to -11F. (I'm in the US.) I remember more than once, while at college in northern Indiana, the fire alarms going off and everyone having to leave the dormitory in those temps. (It was usually someone who burnt the popcorn...) We would stand around outside for quite some time, waiting for the fire truck to arrive and the firemen to tell us it was okay to go back inside. Very few were wearing coats. Most of us had on sweaters, jeans, and slippers. In the snow, at temps below zero. It was uncomfortable, but you just laughed and made the best of it. It wasn't a huge deal.

It seems reasonable that they might have left expecting to return before too long. They were Russians; they were used to the cold. It wouldn't have had to be all the way up to 0C / 32F in order for them to be okay with less-than-compete wintertime-wear for a half hour or so.

The comment by Sonnet Fitzgerald (second response on this page
https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-someone-survive-in-0%C2%BA-celsius-I-read-somewhere-that-we-would-freeze-to-death-in-matter-of-ten-minutes-or-so-if-naked-Is-this-true ) is a good example of how many people in northern climates view cold weather.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 14:45 (GMT)
@Probal - autopsy stated both girls were virgins.
Probal 23-04-2017 14:24 (GMT)
The lady with the missing tongue: Was she sexually assaulted ? Her autopsy report is not as detailed as those of the other victims.

Pkghoshalta@hotmail.com

Cheers
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 14:06 (GMT)
@Rol88 - "Imo , they underestimated the threat and thought it won't last much and that's why they left a switched- on Chinese torch on the snow maybe as a ''beacon'' to help them in their way back so : 1- they thought they will recover the torch before the batteries are empty 2- They thought they are going to need it to come back to the tent while still in the dark . In other words they did not expect to spend the night out of the tent. But the'' threat'' persisted and kept them from going back to the tent and may have pursued them to the cedar and/or the den. "
Yes that's my theory.

But it might not have been so cold at the tent, if the microwave theory to explain ball lightning is correct then a large area could be warmed up (perhaps to say to +1C). The hot spot would have to be warmer to soften the snow of course. The snow found on the tent was peculiarly hard, the first members of the rescue party to arrive damaged the tent by having to use a ice pick to break through it. It is if it had been melted before refreezing. Ditto the ravine snow on top of the den, it had a similar composition like it had experienced heat.
Rol88 23-04-2017 13:19 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans: They acted rationnally by cutting their tent open and leaving it in the middle of the night by -26 DEG C almost barefoot ? I am sorry the threat was terrifying to make such tough people leave their tent so hastily and so unprepared . They knew very well that leaving the tent this way meant certainly frostbites , maybe death and still they took the risk...
Imo , they underestimated the threat and thought it won't last much and that's why they left a switched- on Chinese torch on the snow maybe as a ''beacon'' to help them in their way back so : 1- they thought they will recover the torch before the batteries are empty 2- They thought they are going to need it to come back to the tent while still in the dark . In other words they did not expect to spend the night out of the tent. But the'' threat'' persisted and kept them from going back to the tent and may have pursued them to the cedar and/or the den.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 06:32 (GMT)
@mkk - yes i believe they behaved rationally, an organised temporary retreat with an injured comrade makes sense to me.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 06:30 (GMT)
@Rol88 - YK's camera was found in the tent on a makeshift tripod so it's debatable how much secrecy there was. They were all good friends.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 06:27 (GMT)
@Rol88 - previously i said that there was no sign of scorching inside the tent but i've remembered about the bamboo pole that had been "cut" at every section. I remember reading somewhere that this was consistent with an electrical discharge flash heating the air inside each section splitting the wood.
Nigel Evans 23-04-2017 06:22 (GMT)
@John Tadlock - it sounds like ball lightning not St Elmo fire, BL coming down chimneys (or stove pipes) is a common occurence, the theory is that the carbon in the soot (and metal pipe in this case) act as a wave guide for microwaves.
Just guessing but you haven't seen the "three heads" photo yet? - http://dyatlov-pass.com/controversy#zolotaryovcamera The BL theory is that this is a photo of a much bigger orb and the "pop" you experienced was much more powerful with fatal consequences at the ravine.
mkk 23-04-2017 01:13 (GMT)
@JohnTadlock: I think Nigel has proposed something *like* that, regarding ball lightning, but perhaps not exactly the same.

I keep thinking about the hikers and what I've read about their behavior on previous hikes.

Lyuda had been shot in the leg and carried out on a stretcher--without losing her cool or her sense of humor.

Dyatlov had been in charge of a group when they were caught in a stampede of wild horses. He directed them to huddle together and stand perfectly still as the horses rushed toward them. Imagine the presence of mind he must have had, and the strength of character to get everyone else to do what would have felt so contrary to natural inclination! The horses, of course swerved around them and they were safe.

Doroshenko had attacked a bear with a geological hammer. His fellow hikers followed suit and they drove the bear away. Good grief!

Whatever it was, I have a hard time imagining this group fleeing the tent in mindless terror. There must have been some urgent, rational, reason that they chose a Siberian winter night over the confines of their tent. And chose to leave without proper clothing & supplies.

Rol88 22-04-2017 21:57 (GMT)
@ John Tadlock : They didn't use the stove the last night .They pitched their tent on the barren slope of Mt Kholyat Syakhl , where firewood was not available .
Rol88 22-04-2017 21:43 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans: Of course ! While some guys were shivering in the cold of the night , all what some others were thinking about was to take some few more pics for the comrades of the KGB and the XXI st communist party convention... A brawl would inevitably break up....
John Tadlock 22-04-2017 17:31 (GMT)
During the mid 1960s, while still a boy, I was camping with my father and grandfather duck hunting. It was strormy. The cabin we spent the night in had a stove, with an active coal fire, with a long stove pipe extending outside then up. At one point tiny balls of lighting appeared and skittered along the stove pipe, eventually falling to the floor, and then skittering across the wood floor before disappearing with a pop. The several balls of tiny lightning were fairly small, the size of a closed fist, each behaving sort of independently almost as if they were alive. The phenom lasted a minute or two. I was more intrigued rather than frightened. My grandfather said it was just St. Elmo's fire. Uncommon, but he had seen it before. I am wondering if something similar scared the hikers from their tent?
Nigel Evans 22-04-2017 14:59 (GMT)
@Rol88 - and a good reason for a fight to break out.
Nigel Evans 22-04-2017 11:57 (GMT)
@mkk - ID was the only member of the group to have the classic signs of hypothermia, full bladder, paradoxical undressing.

@Rol88 - i'd agree and it also explains why Ivanov was overruled about the fireballs.
Rol88 22-04-2017 08:19 (GMT)
@mkk : The fact Dyatlov did not file the exact details of his route seems to point out that Dyatlov and of course the presumed KGB agent(s) Zolotaryov wanted to keep the real task of the mission shrouded in secrecy under the cover of a very casual tourist hike in the mountains. Let us not forget the expedition was dedicated to the XXI st Meeting of the Communist Party. If they dedicated an expedition to the Everest ,to K2 0r even to Kilimanjaro it would have been understandable because it is a real feat but to Mt Otorten ??? Obviously at least some of them expected to come back with precious documented observations about some interesting phenomena...
mkk 21-04-2017 13:51 (GMT)
@Nigel, I agree with you. That's one reason I just can't quite get on board with the infrasound theory, although it seems reasonable at first. Not only do birds hear and respond to infrasound themselves, but it wouldn't explain their deaths.

Incidentally, my grandmother had an encounter with ball lightning when she was younger. No one was hurt.

Dyatlov's position, with his arms raised to his chest, looks quite similar to the "pugilistic stance" (boxer position) which occurs because of muscles tightening and shortening in contact with very high heat--as in a fire. It can happen even if the heat occurs after the person is dead. Curious, since evidence seems to point toward his dying of hypothermia & I haven't heard of any burns on him.
Nigel Evans 21-04-2017 08:25 (GMT)
@mkk - the dead birds are explained by an explosion which is the best explanation for the four ravine deaths.
mkk 21-04-2017 02:52 (GMT)
I remember reading in Eicher's book that, for some reason, Dyatlov hadn't properly filed the official paperwork specifically stating the route they were taking. As I understand it, this caused some delay at the beginning of the search. I haven't seen this point addressed in any of the discussion. It may be irrelevant, but it is suggestive.

Also, there was mention of a surprising number of dead ptarmigans found by the search crews. I think this fact should be addressed by any serious theories. (Even if the explanation is just that they died later--why?)

Also, I remember reading (I believe in Zina's diary?) that the group members argued one evening about whose turn it was to patch up the tent. Lyuda got angry and went off by herself, and so didn't participate in their little celebration of Doroshenko's birthday. But just now I couldn't find where I'd read that. Anyone remember? I feel like there was something said about stuffing the holes of the tent with clothing to keep out the drafts.
Nigel Evans 20-04-2017 14:06 (GMT)
Rol88 - that danger being a GLO as photographed by SZ.
Nigel Evans 20-04-2017 13:49 (GMT)
@Rol88 - there must have been an event at the tent that forced them to immediately leave without any preperation. Hence my interest in YK's burn. If he received that at the tent (inside or outside) then it would be sensible to quickly withdraw with the expectation that this was temporary. Hence the torch left on halfway down to assist. Imo it was a temporary retreat until the danger passed. But they had underestimated the danger, it didn't recede and later came at them.
Rol88 20-04-2017 13:03 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : What is your opinion regarding the jacket tucked in the hole of the tent ? Dyatlov was found quite lightly dressed you know with the jacket of Krivo ! How could he have relinquished such a precious item before leaving the tent ??? One more troubling detail !
Nigel Evans 20-04-2017 10:17 (GMT)
@Rol88 - I forgot about the jacket stuffed in the hole. Fair point, that and the lack of signs of scorching within the tent mitigates against a discharge inside.
One torch/lantern was placed on the tent presumably mislaid the other was found halfway down left turned on. It's very difficult to lose an illuminated torch in total darkness! A very high probability that it was left there to assist the return.

The treeline provided shelter, the means of a fire, snowbanks for caves/dens, branches to build into seats. And importantly a position to monitor the tent area. It was a sensible decision, I don't see the advantage in heading for the base camp.

They would have been cold and wet that night. Tough kids.

I'm not keen on the brawling theory but personal choice i guess, we'll never know for sure.
Rol88 20-04-2017 07:42 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : You wrote ''torch'' , I read somewhere ''lantern'' . Are we talking about the same items ?
Rol88 20-04-2017 07:27 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : Imo I don't think the GLO burst inside the tent , otherwise how would you explain the burns on the leg of Y.Krivo and Doro and no burnt fabric ? Such a blast would have set fire in the tent or at least leave some traces on the fabric but again the tent was lacerated from inside no trace of burns whatsoever...
Speaking of the tent : How do you explain they found the jacket of I. Dyatlov tucked in a hole of the tent ? A pitiful attempt to close the hole and keep some warmth in the tent ?
They also found 2 Chinese made lanterns on the slope on the mountain. Again doesn't make sense to leave them behind . The ''Event'' in the tent happened around 9 pm. It was pitch black outside ,they could never recover the lanterns before dawn when they would be useless to them.. They found lots of items in the pockets of the victims . Zolotaryov kept his camera and his note pad , so why would they leave the lanterns behind on the snow ??? :
As for the base camp : There was food , spare skis and Rustem's mandolin yes , but above all there was SHELTER from a freezing -28* c night but for some reason they did not want to or could not make it there... imo obviously because the whole expedition had a secret task ie to study strange phenomena ( which nature is subject to debate lets keep it for other posts) in the area. ID and for sure Comrade Zolotaryov would certainly not allow the rest of the group to leave the area and stop observing what was going on around the tent, even at the price of their lives ...
Imo it explains why they pitched the tent on the slope of Kholyat and not in the forest with no protection from the winds and no firewood . The last night under the tent must have been pretty cold...
This also may explain why the situation degenerated to a brawl later... ID died with his fists raised on his torso ...maybe he was still shouting swears and threats with Rustem until the last minute of his short life...
Nigel Evans 19-04-2017 16:13 (GMT)
@Rol88: btw feel free to challenge the theory, polite debate over different theories is what this page should be for.

"The 2 Yuris died of hypethermia their lesions were quite superficial of course YD had his hair burnt and his fingers and toes frostbitten but not to the point these lesions were life threatening. "
YK had a massive burn on his lower leg and foot 30cm in length that had charred the skin to the extent exposing tissue underneath. He had bit both hands, presumably to try and deal with the pain, one of them so hard that skin was found in his mouth.
Therefore (i assert) he was concious after the burn and so it is reasonable to suppose he was concious when he received it? Given the extent of this burn it is hard to attribute it to being accidental. Also YD had burns and it is imo difficult to explain them both as accidents from the fire, torture maybe but accidents no.
This burn is a copycat injury for the one received by the lady in the ball-lightning link below. Electrical discharge is a good explanation for this injury, possibly the best one.
Also the skin was found in his mouth which suggests that he bit his hand shortly before dying, this seems strange behaviour for death from hypothermia, shouldn't he be losing feeling in his hands by this time?

The base camp was out of sight around the mountain and only contained food, spare skis and a mandolin. It was of little use to them in surviving the night. They went to the cedar because they could see it from the tent, from it's top half they could observe the tent area. This imo strongly indicates that they wanted to return once the threat had receded and this tells us a lot about the threat that seems to rule out torture as a cause of YK/YD's burns. They also left a torch on halfway down the slope, imo to assist their return.

Rol88 19-04-2017 13:25 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans:'' YK and to some extent YD had horrific lesions'' ?? The 2 Yuris died of hypethermia their lesions were quite superficial of course YD had his hair burnt and his fingers and toes frostbitten but not to the point these lesions were life threatening. If there is something stumbling in this mad story , it is why on earth these people did not try to seek refuge in the base camp not very far down the hill where they could have found shelter, food and clothing . The den and the base camp were at the same distance from the tent and it would be very far fetched to speculate the GLO after storming into the tent stood also in their way to the base camp !
Nigel Evans 18-04-2017 13:35 (GMT)
@Rol88 -
"Maybe one GLO got into that tent and scared the hell out of them to the point they slit their tent open and left it in a hurry."
Or maybe one got in the tent and electrocuted YK and YD and blew the tent open as in the swiss case...

YK and to some extent YD had horrific lesions, the ravine four had barotrauma style injuries or as a result of mechanical impact (e.g. the side wall of the den pushed on them with great force.

"If we are going to put it all on the account of the GLO, then one needs to assume the hikers have been subjected to several GLOs pursuing them everywhere they go."
We'll never know, but it is possible that it was just the one GLO, which stayed at the tent for some time preventing them from returning but then converted into a roller, fell into the ravine upstream of the den and followed it downstream smashing through the den on it's journey. Burnt treetops are a common sign of lightning strikes and could be irrelevant to the dpi. Lightning is an alternative theory for the ravine event, the frozen stream possibly providing the best earth in the vicinity.
Rol88 17-04-2017 16:26 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans .Very interesting ! It does explain why- probably commissioned by KGB represented in the persons of Comrades Zolotaryov and Kolevatov - , Dyatlov (a radio engineer) pitched his tent, in the middle of nowhere in order to observe the'' ball lightning'' or GLO . Maybe one GLO got into that tent and scared the hell out of them to the point they slit their tent open and left it in a hurry. But does it also explain why the Cedar tree apex was burnt AND Dubinina 's , Thibeaux and Zolotaryovs sustained these horrific lesions ? If we are going to put it all on the account of the GLO, then one needs to assume the hikers have been subjected to several GLOs pursuing them everywhere they go - the tent, the cedar tree , and the den- like guided missiles ! And these phenomenons tend to be - according to the reports- quite isolated in time( few seconds or minutes ) and space ( one GLO reported at a time ) .
Nigel Evans 17-04-2017 12:34 (GMT)
http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Effects_%26_Injuries.html Some interesting overlap there with the DPI injuries and an alternative theory for how the tent was ripped open!
Nigel Evans 17-04-2017 11:49 (GMT)
Rol88 - no, probs, no probs!
Happy Easter.
Based on the injury profile it seems that only ID and RS hit anything/anyone with their fists.
Another curiosity are the amount of scratches and abrasions on the faces of ZK, RS and ID.
There is evidence that this is a feature of electro magnetic phenomena like ball lightning.
Rol88 17-04-2017 05:45 (GMT)
Nigel Evans I read my previous comment again and it seems I made some typing mistakes I was very sleepy sorry for the poor typing .
Rol88 17-04-2017 05:45 (GMT)
Nigel Evans I read my previous comment again and it seems I made some typing mistakes I was very sleepy sorry for the poor typing .
Rol88 15-04-2017 23:36 (GMT)
Nigel Evans : even if you're exhausted and confused you won't fall on your clenched fists you , you will always fall on your open palms. We can safely say there was definitely at some time a brawl between the members. Most probably Dyatlov had to answer about his bad decisions which stranded the hikers in the wild and caused the death of Doro and Krivo . Most probably Dyatlo had to defend his point of view with his fists. It is a detail but it would have consumed their body energy and hastened their demise on their way back to the tent.
As for the radiotransmitter Dyatlov was taking it on hikes but that time I think Dyatlov was asked by KGB which infiltrated the group with Zolotaryov not to take the radiotransmitter . Maybe they wanted to keep the mission top secret and didn't want any information leak on the - air.
Rol88 15-04-2017 22:59 (GMT)
Happy Easter everyone !
Nigel Evans 15-04-2017 11:24 (GMT)
Rol88 - yes YK my error.
For the record 330 metres apart.
ZK didn't have bruises on her hands, they are described as abrasions. She also has a wound on the back of her hand. This fits with my theory that the returning 3 were the last able bodied group and had rapidly dug the ravine 4 out of the snow (with their bare hands) which had buried them in "the ravine event". N.B. most of the marks on the groups faces are described as abrasions not bruises.... As for RS and ID having bruises on their hands, maybe there was a brawl, after the 2 Yuris died people would be upset with previous decisions and the den is a sign that the group split into two. But i think "the bruising consistent with fighting" theory is just a distraction. E.g. ZK's bruise at the waist is almost certainly from dragging the makeshift sled. Both RS (concussion) and ID (hypothermia) probably died highly confused which means injuries from stumbling/falling/hitting hands on trees and rocks can't be ruled out and the fatal injuries have little to do with fighting...
Don't see the relevance of leaving a radiotransmitter behind.
Rol88 15-04-2017 03:38 (GMT)
Also according to K Mc Closkey , Dyatlov designed not only the famous stove but also a radiotransmitter he was taking with him on trips. But for his last trip he didn't. Just left it behind ....
Rol88 14-04-2017 22:34 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans : You mean to say Krivonishenko's nose . Dorosheko was turned face to the ground and in this position his nose couldn't be accessible to the birds of prey.Following your remark regarding the way Dyatlov , Slobodin and Kolmogorova fell consecutively at 250 m distance , pls do also note that the 3 of them had metacarpophalangeal bruises consistent with hand to hand fight . Even Kolmogorova.... Maybe the 3 of them sided each other against the rest of the group members and decided to leave the others behind and to return to the tent ?
Nigel Evans 14-04-2017 10:02 (GMT)
DRAGON_MARTIJN - well the coverup would seem to have to fool Ivanov and the students in the rescue group.

Rol88 - yes, imo they deliberately camped there to photograph the "mansi's golden orbs" and SZ was equipped with a camera specially for this. So it could have been a KGB sanctioned mission.
YD lost the tip of his nose presumbly to predation. The predation could be explained by crows being quickly defeated by snowfall with no larger predators in the vicinity immediately afterwards.

Imo the most fascinating fact is that ZK, RS and ID all give up within say 250m of each other. Could be coincidence or they were entering a zone that was debilitating and weakening them.
Rol88 13-04-2017 22:26 (GMT)
One more strange detail : Despite the winter and the scarcity of available food , no animal scavenged on the corpses .Except of the eyes of Zolotaryov and eyes and tongue of Dubinina , which no one is really sure how they disappeared , the corpses were kept off of any scavenging.No traces of animal footprints around the corpses reported...
Rol88 13-04-2017 20:01 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans First I thought that we should focus on what danger or threat made the hikers cut their way out in the tent by - 26°c but according to Keith Mc Closkey in an interview on the radio things started to go wrong fews days before .When I Dyatlov set the course to be taken by the group , he had an argument with Yudin who disagreed with him. According to Mc Closkey , it is very strange Dyatlov allegedly "lost his way" to Otorten and deviated to Kholyat since he successfully made it to Otorten the year before . And last but not least the strangest thing was their decision to camp on the barren slope of the mountain instead of staying behind the tree line . McCloskey asked an experienced mountaineer and the man told him no experienced hiker would ever do that. The later" justifications" made by Yudin about Dyatlov's decisions might well be just to keep off trouble....
DRAGON_MARTIJN 13-04-2017 09:41 (GMT)
Parachute mines are in my vision also bombs. "natural aerial object that can burn and explode and fits with the local knowledge", don't know what that is. I think planes with bombs. Cover up can be done at the side of the military by not mentioning they were there. Not nice to admit you killed 9 innocent people.
Nigel Evans 12-04-2017 17:13 (GMT)
DRAGON_MARTIJN - military ordnance satisfies a lot of the evidence, aerial self illuminated objects - photographed by the group and reported by credible eye witnesses, shockwave style injuries.
But not bombing - why light a fire? No bomb craters/fragments?
Other devices could be a better theory imo, e.g. parachute mines and flares, with the evidence being carried away in the strong winds could be a fit.

But these options would require a coverup which doesn't fit with the evidence, the rescue party included fellow students who presumably would have by now spilled the beans if they had seen anything, the KGB rounded up Mansi leaders and the interrogation included torture until they found the first bodies. And "unknown compelling force" isn't much of a cover story.

A much better theory is a natural aerial object that can burn and explode and fits with the local knowledge. Happy
DRAGON_MARTIJN 12-04-2017 14:18 (GMT)
My opinion. They were killed by Soviet plane(s) (see pictures of the planes on this website) by bombs. Maybe the pilots thought they were a target, maybe they thought they were escaped gulagprisoners who needed to be killed. The doctor said: killed by car crash or BOMB. Burned treetops... Probably first light flares to mark the territory and see the target and then the bombs. Probably one bomb on the other side of the mountain (they get afraid), one bomb which knocks down two in the tree and the three others who ran back to the tent, and a third bomb in the ravine. There goes some time over this, so probably they really wanted to kill them.
Nigel Evans 10-04-2017 21:33 (GMT)
Rol88 - it's probably best if we just agree to disagree about portals.

Incidentally in the late fifties it was the Russians that had a lead on the Americans (Sputnik 1957, First man in space 1961). This was mainly because their atomic bomb technology was cruder and hence heavier and so their ballistic missiles had to be more powerful.
It was the Russian lead in rocket technology that forced Kennedy to commit to putting a man on the moon by the end of the decade.

Rol88 10-04-2017 20:36 (GMT)
@ Nigel Evans : I really appreciate the pertinence of your comments. Yes opening a portal(like in the Philadelphia experiment ) would have needed a considerable amount of material far beyond the strength of the hikers. But this theory is worth considering. It is a fact that by the late 50 ies
the Soviets were starting to realise it was getting harder to close the gap with the US and they started exploring new alternatives such as the paranormal ( telekinesis , telepathy) etc...
Rol88 10-04-2017 13:40 (GMT)
@ Andrews :Now this being said , these are just suppositions, true facts may be different.
Rol88 10-04-2017 13:37 (GMT)
@ Andrew : It makes sense Y Yudin makes up an illness . ..Remember they were in the USSR and they had KGB agents among the members of the expedition . iIf he had any hint about what they were up to , the only way would have been to make up some excuse , to get out and to keep his mouth shut....Big Brother is watching....
Nigel Evans 10-04-2017 12:31 (GMT)
Rol88 - they didn't use the stove that night. When they set off with supplies for two weeks the men carried loads of 40kg and the girls 30kg. They had 3 axes and some knives and collected firewood each evening. They left 55kg of food for the return journey at the base camp to lighten their loads for the ascent up the mountain. They didn't use the stove because there wasn't any firewood to collect above the tree line.

Has Mr Genovese estimated what this portal opening device would weigh? How many car batteries do you need to open a portal to another dimension? Happy

More seriously i would agree that SZ and probably AK were KGB. I've a suspicion that there was a plan to investigate the "golden orbs" either formed before they set off or along the journey.
Andrew 10-04-2017 00:43 (GMT)
Alright, so out of the theories given, I actually find Infrasound as a very likely candidate for why they left the tent, however, I'm not sure what to believe when it comes to the gruesome deaths of three hikers.
Andrew 10-04-2017 00:25 (GMT)
@Rol88 I wouldn't understand why Yuri Yudin would make up an illness and not tell anyone else, wouldn't he want to tell ANYONE else, so they wouldn't be killed?
Rol88 09-04-2017 23:33 (GMT)
According to French psychic Michel Genovese the whole trip was infiltrated and organised by the soviet secret service. Kolevatov and Zolotaryov were KGB agents infiltrators keeping an eye on the group activities. Dyatlov designed a special device to open a portal to another dimension and unleash malevolent forces to help USSR in their war against USA and was very keen to try it in the wild asap and the KGB was very interested to see the results. According to Michel Genovese , Yuri Yudin knew about the experiment and made up the story of his illness to get out of there before it was too late. The terrible forces unleashed during the experiment drove them out of the tent and caused their demise.
Rol88 09-04-2017 23:04 (GMT)
@NIgel Evans: you are right regarding the footprints.But then there is this story of the stove causing sparkles and fumes and driving the hikers out of the tent . It seems tempting to buy this theory since it explains why the hikers slashed the tent's fabric from inside. But then ,remember no one ever reported any burn of the fabric or of the items left behind in the tent. The theory doesn't hold when you think about it twice.
Nigel Evans 08-04-2017 12:02 (GMT)
Rol88 - my understanding is that the rescue party found the tent by picking up the trail by the river and following it?

The retreat path to the cedar was on the north side which would survive better (in the sun) than the approach path on the south side.

Can't see a problem with superimposed footprints?
Rol88 07-04-2017 17:18 (GMT)
And no one ever made any mention about superimposed footprints
Rol88 07-04-2017 17:15 (GMT)
Guys there are lots of dubious details in the findings during the investigations : take for example the footprints found on the snow , how come they found the footprints of the hikers going down the tent and couldn't find their footprints going up to their last camp given the fac t they made their way up few hours before their escape from the tent down to the forest ?
Nigel Evans 03-04-2017 13:23 (GMT)
Just in case people think i'm getting ahead of myself with the orbs Happy

The phenomena is also believed to be responsible for crop circles, a good video is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0YuPj-516M I can't say whether it's fake or not but it fits with the research below
http://www.bltresearch.com/plantab.php Namely that the crops are bent by rapid heating of the stalks sap, turning it to steam.
The theory is that this is caused by microwaves.

It's my conjecture that a more powerful form of this results in cattle and even human mutilation. E.g. google "human mutilation brazil".
Nigel Evans 02-04-2017 05:52 (GMT)
Don't go there - incidentally orbs and cattle mutilations may have a connection so it maybe that an orb could have removed the tongue. But the pathologist blamed post death decomposition.
Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 21:00 (GMT)
Don't go there - read my recent posts, that's not what the pathologist said Happy.
Don't go there 01-04-2017 19:42 (GMT)
And how does it explain the ripped off tongue of the woman? Explanation on the site says she was alive at the time when it happened. No orb can do this.
Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 15:17 (GMT)
Expert - that's the point of what i'm saying, there was no panic.
With this scenario they left the tent to get closer to the orb in relatively mild temperatures (lets say +1C). As highly qualified university level technicians with radio and nuclear backgrounds they would have been fascinated with the object and quite curious. ID put his torch on the snow on the tent whilst he adjusted his clothing perhaps. Then two of the party suffered electrocution burns and they elected to retire to the forest and light a fire. There was no panic, just realisation of the potential danger in staying near to the tent with this orb just outside it and that's what prevented them from returning. So they calmly walked down the mountain side by side assisting YD and YK who might have been limping.
The reason that they slit the tent rather than using the opening could be the location of the orb or even St Elmos fire perhaps. The tent was on a slope with the entrance at the high point which would be where you'd expect the discharge.
Then at the cedar they experience the real cold temperature and some of the group led by SZ decide a snow cave/den is the best option.
Then the same orb or another one or a lightning bolt creates an explosion near the den that throws the den and it's occupants (but not the seats) several metres along the ravine with barotrauma style injuries.
Expert 01-04-2017 14:48 (GMT)
I really listen to detailed story. About escaping urgently ..
Expert 01-04-2017 14:44 (GMT)
because of YK burnt ?
Expert 01-04-2017 14:39 (GMT)
Nigel /

So, Why did they got panic in the tent ?
Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 14:12 (GMT)
Expert - no ID's torch was found on top of snow on the tent. Warmer doesn't mean warm. +1C is warmer than -20C but it's still cold.



Expert 01-04-2017 13:52 (GMT)
Nigel /


I imagine that in your explaining
-If they were in those crisis , they were rolling in the hill, keeping their body cold on snow
or run away from tent site before they were roasted.
but they kept calm out of tent. unlike in tent.
which mean no threat from the object.

In other idea, I assumed military helicopter.
(they were warned to leave the site)
but there were some traces the assumption couldn't 'explain or fit' in the incident.


Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 12:30 (GMT)
Expert - the hotspot indicates warming of the snow to soften it enough that the wind could shape it (slush?). So it's logical that this warming extended further out decreasing with distance but could include the tent location. That explains why they went outside not properly dressed for -20C. Because the local temperature wasn't -20C.
Nigel Evans 01-04-2017 11:52 (GMT)
Expert - there's several alternative scenarios connected with the ball lightning theory. Nothing wrong with discussing them in turn.
Expert 31-03-2017 20:38 (GMT)
Nature phenomenon could give human panic through big, sudden damage.
there were no traces. your assumption was away from evidences
Expert 31-03-2017 20:35 (GMT)
Now,I am focusing on that- How they were driven out of tent urgently with big panic .

Your assumption is explaining it weirdly
Nigel Evans 31-03-2017 15:44 (GMT)
Expert -
not sure i understand (1). I'm not saying they were too warm, just that around the tent it was significantly warmer than -20C.
not sure i understand (2) either. Happy

I don't know anything about a burnt trace on the cedar tree?

Yes i'm trying to fit the facts to the ball lightning theory and creatively so.
Happy to hear other peoples explanations.

Expert 31-03-2017 13:42 (GMT)
Nigel /

When you match all puzzle pieces ,
do you match all puzzle pieces into your imagination ?

First,Match all pieces in order
Later, judge your imagination was right !

It seems you are making up all remains into Ball Lightning .
Then, you would get weird course..

1. the air in the tent would have been warm due to microwave heating.
->
If they were too warm in the tent to escape urgently , Why didn't they escape urgently around the tent ?

2. if YK was too brave and went outside and put his hand(s) too near the orb (perhaps to photograph it's structure) then this would explain his burns (electrocution) and why they walked down the hill side by side (he was limping and needed assistance) and why they knew they couldn't return.
->
It would be more rational
that there was burnt trace on cedar tree
and YK died under cedar tree
and YK was attacked there .






Nigel Evans 30-03-2017 11:35 (GMT)
Expert - i think that :-

1. the air in the tent would have been warm due to microwave heating.
2. if YK was too brave and went outside and put his hand(s) too near the orb (perhaps to photograph it's structure) then this would explain his burns (electrocution) and why they walked down the hill side by side (he was limping and needed assistance) and why they knew they couldn't return.

Also wrt to SZ's photographs clearly showing an aerial object and the complete lack of any similar photos from the other cameras (except perhaps one) then this would support Ivanov's statement that material was removed from the report.
Expert 30-03-2017 10:07 (GMT)
[Opinion-1]

Nigel, Details Left Out /

The force had 2 character
those would make them confused .

1- Very big force
As they urgently escaped the tent without survival stuffs in terrible whether.

2 - Unknown force
After they escaped urgently, they tried to calm down.
Which mean the force did not attack them instantly, and I guess the hikers won't know exactly what that was

So, that did not give them panic anymore. ( unlike "in the tent" )

but at least, they got awareness - that has immense force.
As everything 9 hikes could do is to escape from the site. It was windy day at less -25'C.
(Though They soon could know terrible whether .. Everything they could do was the way)

--------------------------------------------------------------

I never see they tried "come back ".

They were very afraid of the force around the tent.
And there are clues they tried to hide themselves.

1. Fire behind Cedar tree.
it was made at tree opposite site from the tent.

2.Broken Cedar tree
it was not used for fire, but empty space faced tent.
it must be harder working to climb tree to Around 5M in the cold. . . than somewhat approach the tent.
So, they were very cautious ..

there are many mentions , assumptions
"they tried to come back to tent"
but I don't agree it very much.

the tent was built on hill
Nothing there for the hikers to hide !!

I bet "they tried just to pick up survival stuffs - wears, boots, ,

Nigel Evans 27-03-2017 14:14 (GMT)
Expert - my theory is that RS assisted by ZK started the return journey shortly after "the ravine event" but ID stayed to assist the dying with NTB although unconcious taking a long time to die of cold (he was well dressed and is estimated to have survived a couple of hours). ID is the only member of the group to have 1 litre of urine so the theory is that he stayed too long and was suffering from hypothermia (he also displays paradoxical undressing which supports this).
Nigel Evans 26-03-2017 16:38 (GMT)
aga - maybe the torch was placed on top of 10-15cm of snow?

Expert - i look forward to it Happy

admin - could i request an update to the Ball Lightning section under Theories?

Something like :-
"The "three heads" photo below would fit the ball lightning theory very well. The "heads" are curves in the base of the tent fabric slit, the "hair" is the weave of the canvas with the strong light penetrating through the fabric also. The horizontal streaks are individual snowflakes or graupnel particles passing at high wind speeds across the view within the shutter speed, the repeated modulation of brightness due to the rotation and reflection of the light source".
Aga 22-03-2017 19:17 (GMT)
I understand that there were 15-20 cm of snow on top of the tent and Dyatlov's flashlight was found burried under 5-10 cm of snow. Does that mean that it was lying on top of 10-15 cm of snow? it is unlikely that a large amount of snow wouñd get underneath the flashlight after it was dropped.
Nigel Evans 20-03-2017 20:24 (GMT)
Details Left Out - yes, for NTB Vozrojdenniy records three bruises/hemorrhages, forearm, upper lip and right temple. AK had diffuse bleeding in the underlying tissues of the left knee. LD and SZ's internal bleeding allowed him to estimate survival times post trauma which fits with the distribution of clothing. So these bodies had not decomposed badly having been frozen solid for most of the time until discovery.
But no chest bruises to explain the fractures. The photo of LD in the morgue shows the right side of her chest, there are two fracture lines under the skin in that photo.
Details Left Out 20-03-2017 19:18 (GMT)
Nigel, you're right, I relooked and there is mention of bruising on Lyudmila's thigh. No broken bone on the thigh, though... perhaps severe bruises react differently on frozen bodies, as unlikely as it sounds. You'd expect with broken ribs there would be substantial bruising on the chest. Or maybe how the chest was pressed again the rock had it in a different environment than the thigh... all speculation, but it does make less of a case for murder/beatings, the fact that there was no bruise on her chest but on her thigh. Very interesting.
Nigel Evans 20-03-2017 15:54 (GMT)
If you look at that photo of LD you'll notice that there is an air gap between the water and the ice above presumably part of the spring thaw. Plus the stream has some strength again due to the thaw, hence it is possible that her body has moved before being found and the position of her head cannot be assumed to be the same as at death.

Expert - i'll pass on biting my tongue thanks :@D. I can't see how biting it (or lack of) affects post mortem predation? BL rollers demonstrate the mechanical force required to equal being hit by a car (and even being hit by a tank!) - http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Roller.html Details Left Out - bruising, the autopsy recorded several bruises on the ravine four but none at the places they would be expected to explain impact from say a blunt object. The pathologist specifically stating "like the shockwave from a bomb".
Yes the BL theory requires two events some time apart as it takes time to build the den.
It's possible that YD/YK received their burns at the tent (electrocution) and were still able to limp down the mountain. A clue here is that most of the group seemed to have walked at a modest pace side by side perhaps to assist YK?
Details Left Out 20-03-2017 14:34 (GMT)
Expert:
Okay, that makes sense, about the reason that their footsteps weren't hurried, even though they were panicked. The snow didn't allow quick passage.

I too think that Lyudmila's tongue was removed before death. The photo of her with her "face and chest pressed against the rock," which you linked, I believe shows that her head was turned, though. The right side of her face appears to be pressed to the rock, but her mouth and eyes appear exposed. It does not change my thoughts on her tongue, but maybe explains her missing eyes? Perhaps the eyes were removed post-mortem.
Details Left Out 20-03-2017 14:26 (GMT)
Nigel:
I understand what you're saying about the tongue and blood in Lyudmila's stomach, that the blood may have gotten there if she simply bit her tongue before death, but that the tongue may have been removed after death. I still think it was removed before she died, but this, of course, is only speculation.

Okay, skin bath tissue = wrinkled skin from water immersion. This makes much more sense. Skin bath tissue sounds like a Silence of the Lambs type of activity. That is interesting that Rustem Slobodin had this on his foot. I wonder what caused this. More mysteries...

It seems that if ball lightening injured members of the group while in or around the tent, that there would have been signs of them being dragged or helped along on the way to the cedar tree, but it says that the footprints made it clear that each individual walked away without help. Maybe you are saying that the ball lightening also occurred while four of the members were in the ravine, causing their severe injuries then.
Details Left Out 20-03-2017 14:15 (GMT)
In the case of Lyudmila Dubinina and Seymen Zolotaryov, both of whom suffered a series of broken ribs, I am wondering if it's possible that there was bruising, initially, but that the bruising dissapeared over time. If this is possible, it would keep it open that maybe a physical attack or a fall occurred.

I have contacted the Alabama Department of Forensics (U.S.) to ask about bruising. On their website, there is a general timeline of how long it takes bruising to disappear after death: http://adfs.alabama.gov/Bruises.aspx In normal conditions, bruising will dissapear post-mortem in two-four weeks. However, this is not on frozen bodies. I have asked them how this might differ on a frozen body, specifically a body frozen for three months. It seems to me that the bruising could have been there, then dissapeared over time. Maybe longer than normal, in the case of a frozen body. But, I have no knowledge on the topic.

I came across their website because I mistakenly thought that the body farms were located in Alabama. There are several throughout the U.S., but they are actually based in Texas. I mention this because it is interesting reading, learning about the body farm: http://www.txstate.edu/anthropology/facts/labs/farf.html
Expert 20-03-2017 11:41 (GMT)
Mansi already had experienced through their companion death.
They would investigate by them self .
They were aware something was wrong around the mountain.
They named it Mountain of the death or Otorten.
They explained two something wrong - Forest giant, Sky ball.

Assume it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V20-LSgVN0
Expert 20-03-2017 11:30 (GMT)
Details Left Out /

I think ..
it is nothing that "their footsteps weren't hurried"
They just had to calm down.
-Snow , hard stones on the pass .

They won't know what the sky ball was ..
but big panic in the tent - maybe unknown, super technology would be used to drive them out of the tent.
Don't forget less -25'C ! With strong wind.
Surely they were in big panic !
If the force was nature or human, They must be damaged in the tent. but No damage !
Only Mental panic !
Expert 20-03-2017 11:17 (GMT)
I checked out sky ball motions that were depicted by Witnesses (Mansi , Russian mine worker)
How could it be nature phenomenon .. ? I doubt ..
Expert 20-03-2017 11:13 (GMT)
Nigel /

Do you know any ball lightning cases that match their injuries . . . ??

sever rib damages ! broken skull ..


Expert 20-03-2017 11:05 (GMT)
Nigel /

You need to try an experiment .
Bite your tongue .
You won't pull out tongue
Expert 20-03-2017 11:01 (GMT)
I agree that LD tongue was removed in the incident : See the last pose of LD ! http://dyatlov-pass.com/.../Lyudmila-Dubinina-post-mortem... If tongue was removed after the incident (by other human) , her face would be turned. Animals also won't remove tongue perfectly in the pose. It was said "the tongue, along with the diaphragm of the mouth, were simply pulled out."

Nigel Evans 19-03-2017 18:57 (GMT)
Details Left Out - "skin bath tissue". I think that's just a poor translation of "wrinkled skin from water immersion". More interestingly the autopsy for RS noted the same for his foot.
I've been fascinated with what could have caused the complete disappearance of LD's tongue and base muscle (exposing the hyoid bone) as it's a copycat injury with cattle mutilations which may be connected with ball lightning or rather a possible cause of it - microwaves. However i've come to the view that i'm being over creative and there are several mundane possibilities irrespective of whether she swallowed some blood. She could have bitten it in the event that broke her ribs and as said below a flock of crows could have plucked it out in a few minutes.
Obviously other people will have their own theories but i don't hold with the murder theory, the pathologist was quite clear that the ravine four suffered high energy bone trauma without any sign of tissue damage from an impact. Someone below posted his view that skin doesn't bruise in extreme cold, but i don't think they were that cold in the den, gloves were in jacket and an unbuttoned coat.
Glad you like the ball lightning theory, the author of the viafanzine site clearly likes it as well. He/she alludes to a point that i don't think has been made before on this page, that when they ran off into the night poorly dressed for -20C it was because the area around the tent could have been a lot warmer, possibly above zero, due to microwave energy warming the area up. It wasn't just the hot spot that was warm....
Details Left Out 19-03-2017 14:25 (GMT)
Nigel:

Skin bath tissue?

I know little about the process of decomposition, and of decomposition in sub-freezing/freezing and wet environments, but it does make sense to me that the eyes and soft tissue around the mouth would decompose at a fast rate than the rest of the body, especially if pressed against wet snow. But the tongue makes less sense to me. Are you saying her tongue may have simply decomposed, just as her eyes did?

I was thinking, her ribs being cracked could also have been done if Zolotaryov pressed his knees to her chest while removing her tongue. This could explain why both sides of her ribs were broken. It does not explain why the right side of his ribs were cracked though.

Mysterious, all of it.

Some of your thoughts of the lightening ball seem plausible to me.
Nigel Evans 18-03-2017 22:56 (GMT)
Details Left Out - The pathologist didn't say that her stomach contained blood, he described it as a dark reddish slimy mass. Sadly never sent for tests to determine it's composition. But he did say that "The injuries of the head area of ​​the soft tissue and "skin bath 'limbs are posthumous changes".
Details Left Out 18-03-2017 12:52 (GMT)
Maybe the answers, or some of the answers, are in the details left out of the autopsies.

Why were the autopsies of the worst victims the least detailed? Why was nothing said of Lyudmila's missing tongue other than that it was missing and blood was found in her stomach (implying the tongue was removed while she was still alive)? It should have been simple to detect whether the tongue had been ripped out or cut out, for example.

I do not know why they left the tent. You wrote that their footsteps weren't hurried, and if they were terribly frightened, I think they would have run. But yet they left without proper clothing. The stove smoking out the tent seems plausible for why they cut holes in the tent from the inside, and maybe explains why they ripped their way out of the tent, if the stove was near the tent's entrance. But then why did they walk so far away from the tent? It seems they would have stayed in the area and then removed the stove from the tent and got back in the tent.

Or maybe they were frightened by someone or something or some phenomena outside the tent, slicing holes in the tent either to see or as a start to ripping the tent open, hoping to get away from whatever or whomever was by the tent's entrance. But then why did they walk, not run from the tent? Were they simply unable to run in the condition of the snow?

Or did the two members outside of the tent, Semen Zolotarev and Nicolai Thibeaux-Brignolle, thought to be relieving themselves, have a fight outside the tent and frighten the others? This also wouldn't explain why they ventured so far from the tent. Unless, one of those men went crazy and drove everyone out. No evidence of this though. It seems likely that they experienced a threat outside of their group, though whether it was a sound, a sight, strange gravity, or attackers, human or non-human, I have no idea. Whatever it was, it was terrifying.

But I do have an idea of how the members of the group died, and what can be deduced from what their autopsies strangely left out.

The people in the ravine obviously lived longer than the others (as they had stripped clothing from the others). And their injuries are the worst.

Maybe everyone went to the cedar tree, and began collecting firewood. The two men who died there, Yuri Doroshenko and Yuri Krivonischenko, had injuries explainable by climbing the tree and maybe falling from the tree. Maybe they were trying to see the tent or maybe they were afraid of something on the ground. That the side of the tree facing the tent had broken branches (evidence of climbing), doesn't necessarily mean that they were looking at the tent. Since they were coming from the direction of the tent, it would make sense that they would climb at the first part of the tree that they reached. It's possible that they were afraid of one or more members of their own group. Or, that they climbed the tree to break off branches to use for firewood. I think that they were both trying to view the tent and break off branches for firewood. The minor burns on their bodies/clothes could be from the fire they made. Regardless, items of their clothing were taken from them. Whether they were already dead or were in a weakened state, it is unknown.

Why did three members of the group then walk toward the tent, and the other remaining members go in the opposite direction? I don't understand this. Maybe there was just a difference of opinion on whether it was safe to return to the tent.

And why do the three members who went toward the tent (Igor Dyatlov, Zinaida Kolmogorova, and Rustem Slobodin) have similar injuries to their hands and faces? I think the three that went toward the tent fought with one another. They bruised their knuckles in the fight, and received blows to their faces from one another. Maybe all three fought one another, or maybe Igor and Zenaida fought with Rustem. It was suggested Igor and Zenaida were close, though not sexual together. Maybe they were dating. Rustem Slobodin was found with a knife in his pocket, and Igor Dyatlov had an incision on his right ankle--maybe Rustem cut Igor. There was also bruising on Igor Dyatlov's front and back ankles, suggesting maybe he was trying to get away from Rustem, while Rustem was on the ground grabbing and cutting at his ankles. Regardless, Igor Dyatlov is found first along the way from the cedar tree to the tent, so he probably died first. I think Rustem was trying to remove Igor's jacket, which would explain why the jacket is unzipped and Igor is clenching it so tightly, to prevent it from being taken from him. Rustem dies next along the trail, and Zinaida gets the furthest toward the tent. Maybe she fought, but then left the two men fighting and made for the tent. Maybe the reason the three of them fought was due to their upset over the deaths of their two friends, Yuri Doroshenko and Yuri Krivonischenko, under the cedar tree. Maybe they fought due to a love triangle between them. The bar-shaped wound on Zinaida's side could have been from a thick tree branch.

All speculation, of course, but I do think they fought one another and it's obvious that they were in a highly upsetting situation, with their two friends dead and whatever happened at the tent to begin with. As their cause of death is hypothermia, I think they injured each other, also causing further exhaustion, and so they simply walked as far as they could before freezing to death. Expect Igor, whom, I believe, Rustem fought and left laying on the ground to freeze, after unsuccessfully trying to remove his jacket.

As for the four remaining members of the group, Lyudmila Dubinina, Alexander Kolevatov, Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolles, and Semyon Zolotaryov, who went in the opposite direction of the tent from the cedar tree, their deaths are more mysterious.

It seems someone cut or ripped out Lyudmila Dubinina's tongue, as blood was found in her stomach. Everyone is in a state of extreme duress, devestated by the death of their friends (they knew about the deaths of the two Yuri's by the cedar tree), cold, hungry/thirsty, somewhat frostbitten, and frightened. They must have felt desperate. I'm a woman, so as much as I don't want to stereotype the woman of these four, she may have been more hysterical than the others. Maybe not. Perhaps she wouldn't be quiet, speaking incessantly of all her fears. Perhaps she was angry, and blaming one or more others in the group. What we do know is that Semyon Zolotaryov is found wearing her jacket. We also know he had elite military training, and had managed to survive in very desperate situations in the past. Perhaps he knew that positive morale was essential. Maybe he threatened to cut her tongue out if she wouldn't stop talking, then did so. Maybe the two of them struggled, falling together deeper into the ravine. The injuries to their chests are similar. Both have broken ribs on the right side on their chests. This could have been from falling atop one another in the ravine, maybe with Lyudmila Dubinina facing away from Semyon Zolotaryov, he fell on top of her while going after her. Her chest injuries were worse than his, and her ribs of her left side were broken as well. She dies kneeling at the edge of the ravine as if trying to get out of it on an impossible side of it.

As Zolotaryov's injuries from the fall were significant, he likely cut out her tongue and took her jacket before the fall. The injuries of the others, Aleksander Kolevatov and Nikolay Thibeaux Brignolle, could have been inflicted by Zolotaryov as well.

Aleksander Kolevatov's injuries seem to have been done by Zolotaryov, as a "snapped neck and blow behind the ear is a common sign of killing performed by special forces." His jacket was unbuttoned and unzipped. Perhaps he was trying to protect Lyudmila Dubinina and Zolotaryov snapped his neck and hit him with a thick branch (blunt object). Then Zolotaryov started to remove his jacket, but was interrupted.

Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolles's injuries also could have been inflicted by Zolotaryov. Maybe he and Kolevatov together tried to defend Dubinina.

Then, with Aleksander Kolevatov and
Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolles defeated, Zolotaryov tries to remove Kolvatov's jacket and Duninina attacks him. Zolotaryov then turns around and starts after Dubinina, taking her jacket instead, and then ripping or cutting out her tongue. She tries to get away from him. Then they fall into the deeper part of the ravine, causing fatal injuries to both. Zolotaryov then tries to write something down, possibly an explanation of why they fled the tent, but dies before he can do so.

I think the missing eyes of Zolotaryov and Dubinina could have been from scavengers, but I'm not sure.

It makes sense to me why Vozrojdenniy, the medical examiner who conducted the autopsies, would have left things out. It was the late 50's, in a small town area. People cared about one another's feelings more than exposing truths at all costs. If he would have said that the injuries of seven of the members were likely inflicted by one another, it would have been devastating to the grieving families. It also would have been an upset to the government in the case of Zolotaryov, as he had been awarded a number of elite military metals. Vozrojdenniy may have feared the government would kill him and simply find another examiner to produce less embarrassing results. It would also have become a blame game, of pointing fingers at "bad" members of the group. Perhaps Vozrojdenniy also understood that people behave much differently in desperate situations than they normally would. Murder is a horrible crime, but when someone is trying to survive and feels it's him or me, it is well within human nature to do what it takes to survive. And Zolotaryov would have known this better than anyone. Self-preservation is always appropriate.

None of this, however, explains why the group suddenly left the tent in the dark, freezing cold night, leaving behind shoes, jackets, and other things necessary for their survival. I have no idea why they did this. But I do think that whatever the trigger situation was, it dissipated, which is why three of the members tried to return to the tent.
Nigel Evans 14-03-2017 23:22 (GMT)
Expert - the probability is all BL but more than one of them some hours apart (it takes time to build a den).
Nigel Evans 14-03-2017 18:12 (GMT)
Expert - i haven't deserted it Happy But the tent event wasn't lightning and the nearby ski touring group claimed to have seen a light and heard a bang on that night.
So probability is all BL.
Nigel Evans 14-03-2017 15:20 (GMT)
Expert - we'll have to disagree about the fire, it would illuminate the trees around and above..

This is the only video of BL that explodes that i know of - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D62KzIc-R-4
Nigel Evans 13-03-2017 22:40 (GMT)
EXpert - [ the fire was set behind the cedar, but could not be seen from the side of the tent ]

I'm not sure that would fool the aliens... Happy
Nigel Evans 12-03-2017 15:17 (GMT)
Expert - Part 04 via google translate - http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm is the best discussion i've seen so far on the various theories (but it's fair to say that the author likes the ball lightning theory and gives it a lot of space).

As to the question, how could ball lightning be responsible for the three events, tent, cedar, ravine. Well my thoughts are :-
1. http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Ball_lightning.html has various classifications for the witnessed events including "navigators". Because that's what is observed.
2. The injuries of the cedar two might have occurred at the tent and been the cause of them fleeing? Interesting that they descended in a line abreast, maybe one or two needed assistance from another's shoulder? So possibly only two events to explain.
Nigel Evans 12-03-2017 12:03 (GMT)
Expert - imo, it's a product of the culture of fear that existed in the authoritarian Soviet Union at that time. Ivanov wanted to state "the fireball theory is the best one" but was overruled because it was a semi fantastic theory that couldn't be proved and could result in harsh outcomes for his superiors (google the 1937 Soviet Census).
Also the event killed all the witnesses which considerably amplified the confusion of course.
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 15:34 (GMT)
Regarding an explanation for the horizontal lines, i'd opt for snow/graupnel passing across the view in high winds. A max speed of 70 mph = 31metres per sec = 30cm in 1/100 of a sec, so depending on the shutter speed and and the speed of the wind you could get a single snowflake travelling some distance in the exposure. Support for this would be the slight change in direction on the right hand side of the photo as the wind follows the ground.
But not conclusive of course.
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 15:05 (GMT)
Expert - and the "heads" are peppered with white dots, possibly the weave of the fabric letting intense light through.
I'd opt for fabric.
Expert 08-03-2017 13:02 (GMT)
1) Camera angle

2) back head color line is very clear.
Not blurred .. It mean bright light lost its strength by a barrier - tent fabric.
Expert 08-03-2017 12:48 (GMT)
What is overwork in my claiming ?
Expert 08-03-2017 12:47 (GMT)
Correct ^^
1.5 METER
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 12:47 (GMT)
Expert - let's not overwork this. We can agree to disagree.
Expert 08-03-2017 12:45 (GMT)
Nigel /

Now, you need to try it.

(1) Make 7 cm sphere(Camera lense) with your fingers .
(2) Idendtify if you can put 3 humans heads in the sphere what Meter behind .


- Maybe, you can put 3 heads in sphere only 1M behind.
Expert 08-03-2017 12:45 (GMT)
Nigel /

Now, you need to try it.

(1) Make 7 cm sphere(Camera lense) with your fingers .
(2) Idendtify if you can put 3 humans heads in the sphere what Meter behind .


- Maybe, you can put 3 heads in sphere only 1M behind.
Expert 08-03-2017 12:28 (GMT)
the tent was ...
width - 180
length - 400
height - 100
It s impossible ?
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 12:19 (GMT)
Expert - if they are heads then the photographer is 6 feet behind and approx 3 feet above. A bit difficult to arrange in the tent! Easier outside.
Expert 08-03-2017 11:22 (GMT)
Nigel /

I need more detailed explaination.
Expert 08-03-2017 11:11 (GMT)
Nigel /

I am saying the first photo, I am not saying order between the 12 photos.

but Why 1 photo couldn't be taken in tent ?
Nigel Evans 08-03-2017 10:51 (GMT)
Expert - i don't think there's any order to the sequence of photos (last one taken days before).

If the objects at the bottom are heads then it couldn't have been taken in the tent. But they could be pieces of tent fabric.
Expert 08-03-2017 07:29 (GMT)
the first photo would be taken in tent.
Expert 08-03-2017 07:18 (GMT)
I guess the photo was taken in tent. (camera angel ,
back head color)
If so, the photo would be taken,, right before the tent was torn ..
Expert 08-03-2017 07:06 (GMT)
Nigel /

WoW, Chilling !
Nigel Evans 07-03-2017 17:24 (GMT)
Expert - https://www.amazon.com/Dyatlov-Pass-Post-Mortem/dp/1539662896
Nigel Evans 07-03-2017 17:10 (GMT)
That image i posted last is on this website which claims that it is from SZ's camera. http://www.dyatlov-pass-incident.com/valentin-yakimenkos-study-groups-negatives/ Looks like three heads looking at ball lightning to me! Happy

Case closed imo.
Nigel Evans 07-03-2017 11:05 (GMT)
Expert - but her head is turned left side up and she lost her nose, upper lip and left side of her cheek. Several crows could have done it in less than 5 minutes.
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 20:41 (GMT)
Expert - i think that's a good theory, YK lost his nose, SZ his eyes and LD eyes and tongue to crows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooded_crow before the snow covered the bodies.
Expert 06-03-2017 15:55 (GMT)
Nigel /

Check out 18:45 - 25 : 00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1500&v=3taDQgXT_6o
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 15:30 (GMT)
Expert - where is your source for the claim that the Mansi state that many reindeer lost their tongues? Do you have a link?

From that site i posted and Svetlana Oss's book, i've been reading the translation of the pathologists report for NTB. His head injuries were more serious than described here, as well as the damage to the temporal bone, the base of the skull was cracked (anterior cranial fossa) and the fornix broken (this lies at the centre of the brain). Hence the references to similarity with being hit by a car or shockwave. N.B. the damage being extensive enough that the head had lost symmetry...

The injuries to LD, SZ and NTB seem to be either due to :-
1. Falling from height (i've read 60 feet) but no broken limbs?
2. Explosion.
3. Being hit by something like a car.

The pathologist thought that NTB although unconcious could have had signs of life for 2 to 3 hours which (in my theory) explains how ID stayed long enough to get hypothermia.
Expert 06-03-2017 14:00 (GMT)
Nigel /

Nope, I trust Mansi witness.
Mansi said many deer were discovered with tongue removed around the incident.
that wasn't only LD
And other ravines weren't discovered without tongue. Even they were in water.
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Thibeaux-Brignolle-and-Kolevatov-post-mortem.jpg
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 13:43 (GMT)
Just been on another DP site
http://ermakvagus.com/Europe/Russia/Cholat-%20Syachil/Kholat%20Syakhl.htm and found this :-
http://ermakvagus.com/Europe/Russia/Cholat-%20Syachil/New%20folder%20(10)/htmlimage.jpg I haven't seen that image before....

Also the site gives a much more detailed translation of the official autopsy reports than here. The pathologist does explain the disappearance of the tongue as decomposition - "The injuries of the head area of ​​the soft tissue and "skin bath 'limbs are posthumous changes (decay and decomposition) Dubinina corpse, which was recently before finding water."
Expert 06-03-2017 12:21 (GMT)
There were many articles
- 3 members ( ZD, ID, RS) tried to come back to the tent. but I don't agree it ..
they tried to pick up survival stuffs like wear, foot wear, torn tent ..
maybe.. that would be ZD's Idea.

I will explain whole course next..
Expert 06-03-2017 12:16 (GMT)
Alien would use electronic power like lightning .
If they were interstellar travelers , the tech would be very easy technology .
Expert 06-03-2017 12:10 (GMT)
I counted whole attack number by alien craft .
They would be attacked 5-6 times.

JD RS ID they all would be attacked by each 3 attack
Cedar attack - 1
Ravine attack - 1 or 2

whole attack times - 5 or 6
Expert 06-03-2017 11:56 (GMT)
EoinOC /

Good point

I think
they dug snow on hill..
snow file collapsed in 20 days. (as the tent was discovered 20 days after)

their footprints was frozen instantly.

someones were discovered under snow
-> much snow would be filed up tree , those snow would fall down As time pass .

Let's see this photos
- Under Cedar tree
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Krivonischenko-Doroshenko-post-mortem-1.jpg Under a little tree
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Igor-Dyatlov-post-mortem-1.jpg
Expert 06-03-2017 11:32 (GMT)
As I know,,,
Ivanov said to close one.
" Sky ball is responsible for the incident , whether it is Alien craft or Secret weapon or Natural disaster .. "
He assumed those 3 forces .
He did not say skyball was ball lightning
Expert 06-03-2017 11:27 (GMT)
Nigel /

I feel awkward ,, now..
I couldn't find any sentences related to my question( Did Ivanov conclude the UFO as a nature phenomenon like ball lightning ? )
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 10:26 (GMT)
https://amnationalistcouncil.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/the-dyatlov-pass-mystery-solved/ "A former police officer named Lev Ivanov who led the Inquest in 1959 published an article in 1990 and admitted that the investigative team had seen “flying spheres” themselves! Invanov believed in a paranormal explanation for the groups deaths involving UFOs."
Nigel Evans 06-03-2017 10:03 (GMT)
Expert - Yes, Ivanov thought the "fireballs" provided the best answer. The rescue party saw one and radioed HQ that they were concerned for their safety.

EoinOC - the mountain gets high winds, so the snowfall isn't uniform? The wind drifts would cover some of the path and leave some of it exposed?

DS - maybe Ivanov was wrong, maybe he wasn't. All we can do here is discuss. Could be worth remembering that someone has gone to effort to provide this website and we should all use it with respect.
Expert 06-03-2017 09:18 (GMT)

Nigel /

?

Where is the answer in your sentences ??
MY Question is that Ivanov concluded the sky ball in Nature phenomenon ?
If my English was wrong , I change sentence
- Ivanov concluded the sky ball was a nature phenomenon like Ball lightning ?
DS 06-03-2017 08:57 (GMT)
Nigel I see that you are Australian too, though I may have obliterated you and you're alter-ego's on the forums perhaps you would like to argue your points face to face.
My name is Darryl S I live in Adelaide Australia I would LOVE to meet all three of yourself.
DS 06-03-2017 08:47 (GMT)
Or a Yeti, or a nuclear bomb, or a ...you get the point. evidence people do you see it?
DS 06-03-2017 08:47 (GMT)
Tantalizing piece of evidence though...As I doubt ball lightning held them at gunpoint and marched them through the snow.
DS 06-03-2017 08:44 (GMT)
No idea but they're there, could have rained in between and frozen them solid.
DS 06-03-2017 08:43 (GMT)
FINALLY someone with a brain Nigel Teedy mcExpert where are you??
EoinOC 06-03-2017 08:37 (GMT)
Can anyone clarify the following: the image of the tent, as discovered by the search party, clearly shows it partially buried in snow. The bodies of the 9 tourists were also covered with snow. How was it that the footsteps leading away from the tent were also not buried in snow?
Nigel Evans 05-03-2017 18:58 (GMT)
DS - it's good to have a hobby, gives you a purpose in life.
Btw who is MODS? No one has used that handle?
DS 05-03-2017 16:07 (GMT)
NIGEL EVANS I hope you were smart enough to use an alias. You cannot hide the evidence of what you're doing. Now I'm going to look into YOU my friend. Congratulations dumbass you've turned an OCD investigative genius against you.
DS 05-03-2017 16:03 (GMT)
MODS WHERE ARE YOU??

ATTENTION MODS/ALL INVESTIGATORS
I put it forth that the two biggest shitposters NIGEL and EXPERT on this site are THE SAME PERSON.
scroll to roughly 1/4 way from the bottom of page

19-10-2016 04:06 (GMT)

First appearance of expert. Judge their interactions for yourself
Nigel Evans 05-03-2017 11:54 (GMT)
Expert - yes, he was interviewed as an old man after Russia had opened up. He said that his opinion was that the fireballs were the cause but his superiors didn't like that and forced a change to - "unknown compelling force" and material had to be removed from the report. Svetlana Oss has seen the same report and noted that it has been stitched twice. Ivanov expressed guilt that he couldn't be candid with the relatives of the deceased.
DS 05-03-2017 03:53 (GMT)
I won't let you do this Nigel I will log in every day and expose you
Nigel Evans 04-03-2017 19:35 (GMT)
DS/me - Ball lightning was apparently the chosen solution of the local mansi people and Lev Ivanov the police investigator. It's one of the very few theories that explains all the facts.

If that pisses you off that's just tough buddy. If you don't agree then give us your better theory.

For the record expert and i are different posters.
DS 04-03-2017 19:23 (GMT)
Reading your posts gives me chills now i know its just one guy chatting to himself
DSme 04-03-2017 19:18 (GMT)
But I don't. people get falsely convicted for murders all the time because of passionate (yet tunnel vision impaired) investigators like you. wake up bro pay attention fuck.
DS is me dickhead 04-03-2017 19:12 (GMT)
dude. give up. you have tunnel vision. investigators get it all the time.
you want to believe ball lightning did this horrific crime so badly i almost feel bad for exposing you.
DS 04-03-2017 19:07 (GMT)
(UPDATE: SCROLL DOWN AND SEE NIGEL/EXPERT IS FULL OF SHIT)
MODS WHERE ARE YOU??

ATTENTION MODS/ALL INVESTIGATORS
I put it forth that the two biggest shitposters NIGEL and EXPERT on this site are THE SAME PERSON.
scroll to roughly 1/4 way from the bottom of page

19-10-2016 04:06 (GMT)

First appearance of expert. Judge their interactions for yourself
Nigel Evans 04-03-2017 14:24 (GMT)
Expert - it was apparently quite a burn, the skin was charred down to the underlying tissue.

One of the features of BL is the variance between harmless through to ultra deadly. As said before the luxury of the theory is that as we don't know what it is, it can be stretched to fit the evidence because the accounts are so variable.
Nigel Evans 04-03-2017 08:33 (GMT)
Expert - we don't know enough about the DP lights i guess. The Hessdalen lights are better studied https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessdalen_lights and they can last for over an hour "The duration of the phenomenon may be from a few seconds to longer than an hour".

I've been looking again at YK's hand injuries and questioning the reason that he bit both of the backs of his hands (very hard, with the second bite he died with the epidermis in his mouth). I think he bit his hands because of the excruciating pain of the burn on his leg. So if he was concious after he received the burn, he must have been concious when it happened?....
Nigel Evans 03-03-2017 18:36 (GMT)
Expert - "How could the nature force drive them to the forest with bare foot or slight wear ? "

Hi, look at that video you posted and ask yourself what would you do if it was heading for your tent?
Nigel Evans 03-03-2017 12:19 (GMT)
DS - can i assume then that you don't like the ball lightning theory?
DS 03-03-2017 01:41 (GMT)
Read about half of there conversations so far and yep.
Nigel. Expert. Whoever you are.
You should be ashamed of yourself, can't believe I wasted so much time on your bulls*#t theory and the bulls#*t games you play to try and prove it.
No more from you. No more ball lightning bulls#*t until you post your probable sequence with all evidence supported. Am I clear? Never gonna happen though so please just leave the Dyatlov case alone so we can try to find the real answer to the question that brought us all here.
DS 03-03-2017 00:12 (GMT)
bye bye Nigel
me 03-03-2017 00:10 (GMT)
ATTENTION ALL INVESTIGATORS;
I put it forth that the two biggest shitposters NIGEL and EXPERT on this site are THE SAME PERSON.
scroll to roughly 1/4 way from the bottom of page

19-10-2016 04:06 (GMT)

First appearance of expert. Judge their interactions for yourself
DS 02-03-2017 23:58 (GMT)
Nigel/expert would you please provide your sequence of events. What are you avoiding?
Nigel Evans 02-03-2017 20:52 (GMT)
me - hi, feel free to criticise and contest. I'm disappointed if people feel they're shut out of the discussion. But lets keep it polite, yes? Happy

and Expert isn't my sidekick, he has his own opinions, some we share some we don't.

Btw the KGB, spent a lot of time investigating the DPI (months) because they lost one of their own and when they found him they closed the mountain for three years to continue monitoring what was happening there. Imo that rules them out.
DS 02-03-2017 19:56 (GMT)
I too have thought a lot about the kgb being involved or to blame somehow. There's only hints of their involvement but you'd expect so much from the kgb so who knows.
A good question for any kgb theory would be why didnt they destroy all the evidence completely? (Given the isolation and ruthlessness of the kgb to keep secrets
me 02-03-2017 19:22 (GMT)
Lurker on this forum for a while but was too affraid of Nigel and his really supportive sidekick expert. Thank you DS you have raised couple good question i will try to answer.
I think it was KGB and military but still much to understand
me 02-03-2017 19:08 (GMT)
read a lot of DS and Nigel fight and i feel he does bring up some new points. There are many theory that use same evidence as BL how can you be so sure?

DS I really want to hear Nigel full story too
DS 02-03-2017 17:50 (GMT)
If your theory is plausible and fits the evidence, I'll never bother you again and write you a lengthy apology letter.
DS 02-03-2017 17:46 (GMT)
I'll take it one step further: I promise to post my sequence directly after yours before I question your theory at all. We can have them back to back for all (who are hopefully not yet as certain as we may be) to judge.
DS 02-03-2017 17:38 (GMT)
I'm not going to stop until you do. or you can concede and admit that your theory doesn't fit with the evidence in which case I'll just post it.
DS 02-03-2017 17:33 (GMT)
I promise you a minimum of one sequence as soon as you reveal yours.
DS 02-03-2017 17:31 (GMT)
THEN IT SHOULDN'T BE HARD FOR YOU
Nigel Evans 02-03-2017 11:38 (GMT)
DS - this page is rich with ideas from me as to a possible sequence of events.

and is very empty of ideas from you.

It's time for you to state your ideas or shut up.
DS 02-03-2017 11:22 (GMT)
Worry about your own theory Nigel it needs your help badly. I've got a couple of possible sequences that involve no unexplained phenomena and guess what the evidence fits with them.
I've already asked you many times though so would you be so kind?
DS 02-03-2017 11:14 (GMT)
state a possible sequence of events and include all physical evidence or shut up.
Nigel Evans 02-03-2017 10:40 (GMT)
DS - "You cannot expect me to take you seriously if you only cherry pick the bits that suit your theory "

Absolutely true. That's why i don't take you seriously because that's exactly what you're doing.

The pathologist was quite clear on what caused the chest injuries and it wasn't fighting.

Plus you have no explanation for the deaths by the fire and none for the exit from the tent.

You're not just cherry picking you're grasping at a single straw that three of the party have bruises on their hands that can be attributed to punching, and nothing else.

Lets hear your end to end explanation for the dpi.
DS 02-03-2017 02:38 (GMT)
You cannot expect me to take you seriously if you only cherry pick the bits that suit your theory
DS 02-03-2017 02:31 (GMT)
Nigel:
Give me a sequence of events (including all the physical evidence) that fits your theory and I will retract everything I've said.
Nigel Evans 02-03-2017 00:55 (GMT)
DS - how to make your own ball lightning.
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/gmr/index.htm
DS 01-03-2017 17:29 (GMT)
This goes for all the theorists: You must be able to apply all the evidence to your theory and present at least a plausible sequence of events or your theory will only lead to more questions than answers. And wont stand up to scrutiny from somebody like me.
DS 01-03-2017 17:02 (GMT)
LOL now I'm done, read back through it all and answer or disprove my questions. Or continue ignoring them and I'll compile them all into a list for future copy and pasting whenever you continue pushing your theory on this case.
DS 01-03-2017 16:57 (GMT)
You heard it here first folks: well documented proof that lightning balls are afraid of fire.
DS 01-03-2017 16:54 (GMT)
Two days and I can see that most of the known evidence doesn't fit your sequence of events in the slightest.
DS 01-03-2017 16:48 (GMT)
No more time wasted disproving your theory Nigel. I've done enough.
DS 01-03-2017 16:47 (GMT)
Once again, you are saying the men received injuries consistant with fighting injuries (noted by the only expert to ever examine the bodies firsthand nonetheless) to the backs of their hands by digging. If this were the case it would be their fingertips that received the most damage.
DS 01-03-2017 16:43 (GMT)
To stay warm? So you agree the cold was they're biggest perceived threat at the time?
DS 01-03-2017 16:40 (GMT)
And remember the film had three empty frames left. yet he only took a singular picture of the most elusive and deadly balls of light ever imagined.
I think you're stories cooked mate. Your evidence proves nothing and you rely on speculations and assumptions. Sorry it had to end this way.
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 16:33 (GMT)
DS - well who is getting the more ridiculous, someone who accepts that BL is well documented or someone who doesn't?
Have you looked at the wikipedia link for it?

No i'm saying the rescuers - ID, ZK and possibly RS used their hands as shovels and tunneled through snow, ice, twigs and branches to remove their buried friends. They're the ones with the injuries to their hands and face and are not decomposed. The ravine four were too injured to punch their way out of a paper bag.

A number of camera frames aren't published on this site. These consist of exposed film that shows nothing but a black background with a white dot. There is conjecture whether these are bad exposures or true photos perhaps of the night sky.

As you say you've only been researching this for two days....

"How does the fire at the cedar fit into your theory?"
I can say with some confidence that they lit the fire to stay warm.... Happy
DS 01-03-2017 16:28 (GMT)
Looking at your favorite blurry photo again there's a good sign of the reported cracked lens. Have you investigated this at all?
DS 01-03-2017 16:20 (GMT)
Agreed that no one will ever know. But we can also work together to agree on what is impossible based upon the evidence found.
DS 01-03-2017 16:13 (GMT)
In the tent? Perfect.
so according to your theory: he took a single blurry photo of the ball. packed up the the tripod and then returned it to the tent. You can't even prove the photo was taken that night, let alone what is in the photo. The photo beforehand however, tells us much more about their last day alive: It was cold as balls and the weather was terrible.
DS 01-03-2017 16:02 (GMT)
"Well documented"-show me. My statement stands that you cannot prove it exists.
You're saying that the men PUNCHED their way through snow. This is getting ridiculous Nigel. look at the photo's and tell me again they weren't decomposed at the time of autopsy.
Many many more pieces that don't fit into your story at all. I've only been researching this for two days, you've been at it for over a year and you never tried to fit all the evidence into your theory??? for example: How does the fire at the cedar fit into your theory?
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 15:40 (GMT)
In the tent.
DS 01-03-2017 15:36 (GMT)
Does it say where the camera was found?
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 15:28 (GMT)
From the page :-

There are 6 films available today in The Dyatlov Pass foundation. There was one more film but it is lost. They have developed it and the pictures are exist but the film itself is missing. Apart from the well known pictures available on the Internet, the films have some rather srange shots which we will discuss below.

The exact number of the cameras in the group is not known. The inventory of the scene lists 3 cameras and there is one tetimony of yet another camera.

The camera № 488797 (Krivonischenko’s) was found with it’s color filter broken and it was attached to a tripod.
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 15:23 (GMT)
DS - i've no problem with criticism, no need for aggression though. No one will ever know for sure what happened.
No need for armchair investigators to get heated...

You say that the ravine male members weren't preservered enough. It is recorded that NTB had two bruises and AK had bleeding in the knee. If they had had cuts and bruises on their hands they would have been noticed and recorded. The evidence is not consistent with fighting but is consistent with the remaining able bodied members franctically digging the ravine four out of (tons?) of snow and hurting their hands on ice, twigs, branches etc. Ditto the face marks on ID, SZ nd RS. The report consistently uses the words abrasions and scratches to describe the marks on all three faces. Not bruises. Imo this is consistent with rescuing the injured from under the snow and not consistent with fighting.

The ball lightning is a well documented phenomena and both myself and Expert have posted videos of it on this page. BL is well documented as burning and exploding with significant force.
http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Ball_lightning.html. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning. "cooperation and death" -
cooperation - they voluntarily shared clothing.
death - they removed clothing from the dead to assist the living.

Svetlana Oss's website - she is a Russian journalist who speaks English and the author of the book on the DPI "Don't go there". You might like to read it as she supports your view of death by violence by humans. Personally i think her conclusion is rubbish but she has researched the case well accessing all the official archives etc.
DS 01-03-2017 15:15 (GMT)
I couldn't find the tripod, saw the word assumption used an awful lot though.
DS 01-03-2017 15:04 (GMT)
That link is pure garbage. She makes her assumptions based on snow. in a picture. of a crimescene that was 25 days old. I refuse to read any further.
DS 01-03-2017 14:51 (GMT)
You cannot come up with any reasonable explanations to my questions. And since my questions are based on solid facts and findings that can hardly be disputed, they are very hard to dismiss are they not? Haven't you wondered about these things yourself?
DS 01-03-2017 14:45 (GMT)
"there are other causes, cooperation, order of death."
care to elaborate on that?


DS 01-03-2017 14:41 (GMT)
I'm sorry if I'm aggressive with my arguments. We have much in common as we both just want to know the answer to a simple question: why?
I have based my theory around the clothing absolutely. but also the injuries and other solid evidence (the fire, the sub zero temps, things that actually exist).
It's a shame the three den men weren't preserved as well as the others. As I'm sure their hands would have answered many questions.
All of your evidence for the hotspot could be proof of almost anything. a flying saucer. a bomb blast.
What exactly is "consistant" about ball lightning? You can't even proove it exists.
Nigel Evans 01-03-2017 12:42 (GMT)
DS - wow a lot of posts to read there.

Tripod - http://www.svetlanaoss.com/blog/tag/the-dyatlov-pass-incident/ "LD's chest had fractures on both sides", yes that's simply explained by the explosion. The shockwave could simultaneously fracture several parts of the chest with a compression phase and a vacuum phase.

Evidence for ball lightning, the hot spot of course which is consistent with the snow being melted in high winds (ridges), and the burnt tree tops (but that could be lightning also). The numerous tent slits all at a similar height indicate they were watching something as does the tripod and the in use cameras and photos of night sky with just a dot of white light. The burns and ravine deaths by shockwave are all consistent with ball lightning/lightning.

SZ was placed with the group to ensure the safe return of valuable state assets, particularly perhaps AK as they would be getting near to the Finnish border and defection was a concern of the state. His orders would be to ensure their protection not kill them if he got cold.... Even with a flail chest and the knowledge he was dying he was trying to leave a note to those that found him a professional to the end.

You put great store in that they wore each others clothes as proof of violence. I don't see that at all there are other causes, cooperation, order of death.

That they were found 6-10 metres from the den is imo support for the theory that they were placed there by the remaining able bodied members who dug them out of the snow. It was a nursing station. In particular the bodies were laid so that their heads were only one foot apart. This was to monitor them.

RS didn't have a double skull fracture, only one side was fractured, he had haemorhages on both sides. This can be easily explained by the explosion theory, the shockwave cracked his skull and pushed the other side into the den wall or he landed on the other side of his head. Ditto AK had a snapped neck from being thrown through the air and landing on his head.

Feel free to attack further. Happy
Expert 01-03-2017 12:13 (GMT)
DS /

I don't think some hiker ate some hiker haha
they all died only 6-8 hours after dinner.

You need to explain how the first event happened in the tent. (by some human)
Expert 01-03-2017 12:06 (GMT)
DS /

I am not a ball lightning Expert, haha (you, Ask Nigel that rather than me)
and I am still investigating ball lightning or lightning injuries.
and I am not sure that Sky ball around the tent was nature phenomenon . Rather artificial object of aliens .

but I suggest you :
Lightning doesn't have only power . but these forces- power, electronic,heat


It won't hit a direction because Lightning happen by streaming of electron
(it could hit right and left side of the skull in same time)

lightning bolt - their streaming always doesn't leave burn trace.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3767075/Herd-19-cows-killed-single-lightning-strike-sheltering-tree-storm.html (it doesn't look like sever burns)

Of course, I am still studying lightning . . . http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2933333/The-science-SUPERSTORMS-Diagrams-reveal-perilous-processes-taking-place-tornadoes-thunderstorms-more.html
Expert 01-03-2017 10:05 (GMT)
DS /

My drawing might be around ending .
But give me time to make clear conclusion haha
Expert 01-03-2017 09:57 (GMT)
DS /

Their wears, stuffs are one of the important points. Of course, I am checking out your opinion to get new idea from other viewer
Expert 01-03-2017 09:35 (GMT)
I believe this incident would be related to sky ball . but (as I said) The problem is Whether The origin of Sky ball is on Nature Phenomenon or on Artificial Object (alien craft).
I focus on that.
Most presumptions are useless. They are Away from Logic.
Expert 01-03-2017 09:29 (GMT)
This is why I don't want to say this incident could be related to alien attack.
Expert 01-03-2017 09:27 (GMT)
I know that,, Alien is not monster but intelligent lives who have been evolved from other space.
but Alien conception on many peoples is Monsters in Star wars or other movies .
Evolution would be usual phenomenon because The Universe have common rule of evolution . - Whole star system will have habitable zone in someday as stars are aged
-Atomic that composed earth lives Already have been spread in The Universe through Super Nova explosion . like Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Nitrogen .......(It is mention by Science and it is testified by spectrum analysis)
-time gap(age) between star systems range billions years (evolution difference)
Our star system is young ( supposed around 5billions ) but some stars were aged around 15billions - in big bang range. Those scientific data say intelligent lives are very common than we think. but Many peoples still think aliens are monsters in Hollywood.

Teddy 01-03-2017 08:52 (GMT)
DS / To your last comment - I don't think so. And also your psychological profiling is like the ball lightning, it can't be proved.
Teddy 01-03-2017 08:46 (GMT)
DS/ I like that you are stating the facts when it comes to clothes rotation, injuries etc. but then you turn to interpretation of how and why did it happen and you are in Wonderland as any other theory. You are saying that what killed them is not what chased them out of the tent but they turned against each other, or rather SZ turned into Mr Hyde?
Teddy 01-03-2017 08:33 (GMT)
DS / "He grabbed her by the scruff of the neck and smashed her against the rock." and then he did the same to himself.
Teedy 01-03-2017 08:22 (GMT)
How did SZ take off LD's coat after her death if she was found in this position?
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Lyudmila-Dubinina-post-mortem-1.jpg .

DS / I think they did run and hide. But it wasn't difficult for their murderers to find them, especially with the fire. I think the fire is what fated the group.
Teddy 01-03-2017 08:11 (GMT)
I think what/whoever wanted them dead expected them to die faster. The fire made the murderers go down once again. And finally the hikers better dressed received most of the beating. Like the monster went back again and again to make sure they are or will die. And by monster I mean people, not Yeti and aliens.
Teddy 01-03-2017 08:01 (GMT)
LD died from a fractured rib piercing her heart. If they were beaten at the same time LD would have died long before SZ. Her cause of death is hemorrhage into right atrium of the heart. You can live with so many broken ribs. I am the living proof. I think SZ died relatively long after everybody else.
Expert 01-03-2017 06:26 (GMT)
DS /

The possibility involved to sky ball is high.

1)all course had hot spot from tent to Cedar tree, Ravine (pink sphere is hot spot around tent)
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_cedro.jpg 2) some peoples who experienced the site believed that skyball would be responsible for the incident
(Mansi tribe, search group student, official investigator .. some soviet governors)

3)No Evidence of invasion(no foot trace from outer)

So , I focus on that .

but your idea on human action (murder possibility) is a possibility on my idea .

I discounted some possibilities -animal attack, Yeti, fire in the tent, avalanche , infra sound ..

but I still don't exclude human possibility.

it's possible in the course. (Criminal Possibility in nervous circumstance would be much higher than Usual circumstance)
but
it won't be a basical disaster that drove them into the forest.

Anyway, I am checking out your opinions.
Expert 01-03-2017 00:34 (GMT)
starting point is the key of the mystery .

Mansi seemingly knew everything .
They knew there was something wrong around the region.
but
even Dyatlov groups discounted their opinion , considering just folktale or superstition. and wanted thrill , adventure.
At last,which was connected to their tragic.
Mansi were afraid of the Mountain Naming it Otorten.


Expert 01-03-2017 00:23 (GMT)
Seemingly but Surely, this incident must be relative to Sky ball .

Problem is the origin of Sky ball - Whether it is originated on nature or artificial technology .

How did the ball cause them to be scared ? that would be the point relative to this incident .

Starting point (from tent) is solution of everything .
Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 23:38 (GMT)
DS - Tell me more about the holes in my theory.

Teddy - LD and SZ have the same injuries from the same event?
Teddy 28-02-2017 22:37 (GMT)
Although I can't see the hikers killig each other in a brawl over clothing DS said something that stuck in my mind "whatever or whoever killed LD wasn't enough of an immediate threat for SZ to want to leave, and gave him enough time to retrieve her clothing before it/they attacked him"
Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 20:52 (GMT)
DS - we'll have to agree to disagree, the pathologist was quite clear about the injuries to the ravine four and he didn't mention LD being repeatedly smashed against a rock. He did say that she and SZ had experienced high energy trauma like in a car accident or the shockwave from a bomb and that she probably died before SZ, hence imo the transfered clothing by those left still standing. SZ was the best dressed member of the group from the beginning to the end, he had no reason to resort to violence even if the other strong and fit male members would have allowed it. Also some of the clothing connected with the den was found hanging unused. They were warm in the den?
The bodies weren't heavily decomposed, they had been frozen solid for most of their time under the snow. NTB is recorded as having a bruise on the upper lip and his extensive skull fracture had no tissue damage to explain an impact.
They didn't take a wrong direction down the mountain, the base camp held 55kg of food for the return journey, a mandolin, a spare pair of skis and little else. They deliberately headed to the forest to shelter from the wind, make a fire and watch the tent (from the cedar) for an opportunity to return to it once the threat that had caused them to leave had gone away.
Granted the campfire versus the den suggests a disagreement, but it doesn't have to be so. They could have built the den with the plan to rotate people between it and those keeping watch at the campfire/cedar.
Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 17:42 (GMT)
DS - keep going as much as you want Winking

But the reason that the Soviet Army suffered such huge losses in WW2 was in part due to their battle strategy which favoured hitting the enemy as hard as possible above conserving resources including manpower. One of the ways this was achieved was that in battles the rear guard was composed of NKVD (the forerunner of the KGB) who shot any Russian soldier that dared to retreat. The ordinary Russian soldier had a choice of dying going forward or dying going back. It would be my expectation that survival rates of NKVD were much better. N.B. it was much the same for the ordinary German soldier fighting on the Russian front with the SS taking the place of the NKVD. It was a tough war...

When the rescue party reached the tent they recorded signs of urination some distance from it, so it's a good theory that SZ and NTB had popped out for a pee just at the right moment and hence were fully dressed. Also the footsteps indicate that one or two of them joined the main group further down the slope to support that theory. Also SZ has no injuries consistent with brawling, in fact only ID, RS and ZK have.
Expert 28-02-2017 15:37 (GMT)
It have been reported by UFO witnesses - unknown phenomenon like car doesn't work or .. human lose consciousness .......... they would experience unknown technology .
and they would be attacked by artificial lightning around Cedar or Ravine
Expert 28-02-2017 15:27 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIB3NPTdwmc
Expert 28-02-2017 15:26 (GMT)
This is giant ball lightning video taken in Siberia .
My wonder is ..
These ball could make 9 hikers feel panic mood ,
Causing them to flee from tent to forest At 30' C below 0 with bare foot or slight wears ? ? ?
What a cute ball !

The sky ball hovering around the tent must make them super scared .
Bizarre life came out of the craft or caused unknown fear .

I am reading now the Portugal site through google translation ..
here is a good suggestion by a search group student .
...........


Mikhail Sharávin (UPI student, along with Boris Slobtsov, found the dyátlovtsy tent): "I have an opinion on the question of why they left the tent so urgently: these were probably factors that affected them. They could not breathe. If there was a displacement of the snow, they would not run in such a situation. I think it was the factors associated with the unknown and the inability to continue staying there. They could not breathe! (...) That's why they ran. "

For tourists, the first factor that affected them in relation to the Object was the psychological commotion. Such an object was by no means familiar to the Dyátlovtsy, being for them something inexplicable and unpredictable, and therefore this generated fear and panic. If it represented any understandable technical device, however dangerous it might be, the behavior of young engineers and students would have been different"


Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 13:38 (GMT)
Ball lightning rollers could be of interest wrt the dpi. http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Roller.html The Malvern case describes rolling bl with strong mechanical energy, note the burns and burning of hair on one side (YD). An alternative cause for flail chest injuries (like in a car crash)?
Nigel Evans 28-02-2017 13:21 (GMT)
DS - i'd agree that the distribution of clothes is saying something, but i think it's describing the order of death and the nursing efforts of ID and ZK as detailed below. I think they were sufficiently warm in the den = snow cave to undo some clothing and remove gloves.
Nigel Evans 26-02-2017 17:50 (GMT)
Invisible deadly force creating scratches
http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Hellfire.html
Nigel Evans 26-02-2017 17:24 (GMT)
Expert - yet again thanking you for a good link!
Some of the dpi group had multiple scratches on the face, ZK was found with her face covered in blood from them and an indian professor connects them with ball lightning, well well....

" that is only information you want to hear"
and that's the opinion of the mansi and the police investigator.

What are these deer injuries, i don't know about them?

Didn't understand the rest of your post.
Expert 26-02-2017 16:40 (GMT)
Nigel /

Why do you consider only sky ball except for Menk , that is only information you want to hear ^^ ?

Why Did explosion of BL make bizarre injuries around the day ? containing bizarre injuries of deer.
and
this is a repeated question by me .
BL was hovering around the tent , then bl gave hikers time enough to escape from tent and make a fire ..
after first attack , Ravine group took some wears from 2 death .
and other BL appeared to RaVine hikers (making cold spot around ravine) . and it killed ravine group.

tongue is not soft muscle . but disappeared somewhere ..


Of course, I still am in investigation about BL injuries
http://www.rense.com/general28/ball.htm but Whole course is too weird to be considered as a nature phenomenon .

Nigel Evans 26-02-2017 16:27 (GMT)
Expert - "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - Happy
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/simon_garfunkel/the_boxer.html Happy

As detailed in previous posts, other groups that saw "lights" :-
Management at a nearby colliery same week (and heard two explosions).
Another ski group in the same area in the same week.
The rescue party something like two months later and radioed their concerns to HQ.
Expert 26-02-2017 16:26 (GMT)
Nigel /

How did other groups support Ball lightning ?
Expert 26-02-2017 16:26 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1515ujK7AI
Expert 26-02-2017 16:25 (GMT)
Nigel /

This woman took alien photo with hand phone .
Even there were Medical evidences .
but I don't expect you to believe . .. ^^
Nigel Evans 26-02-2017 13:57 (GMT)
Expert - i don't think the injuries of the ravine four fit with the yeti/menk theory.

No broken limbs, no tissue damage to explain the flail chests and skull fractures.
They fit with barotrauma, i.e. the pathologist's report - "like the shockwave from a bomb".
The ball lightning theory isn't just supported by the Mansi but by other groups of reliable witnesses who saw lights as well in the same area at the same time and even heard explosions..

But lets try the alien theory out.
They flee the tent because a spaceship is hovering nearby, close enough to the ground to melt the snow.
Then they light a fire..... Happy
One of the several fascinating questions of the dpi is what was it that made them flee and prevented them from returning but unafraid to light a fire?
Imo it rules lots of possibilities out like alien, animal, human, any intelligent life, but rules in natural phenomena such as lightning, ball lightning.

I'm not trying to disprove aliens.
In an era of smartphones i look forward to the next Voronezh or nothing, either way in the next say 50 years we should have proof.
But i don't think they're responsible for ball lightning.

N.B. if you want to look for an alternative theory, military testing, perhaps parachute mines would be a good start, with the high winds dispersing the evidence.
Expert 26-02-2017 06:03 (GMT)
Nigel /

Mansi didn't say that was Yeti
(seems the word was mistranslated by Russians)
Menk means ''forest giant'' in Mansi language.
it could be alien from other world (in the Universe)

Check out - my re posting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V20-LSgVN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccdDvkGg6z8
Expert 26-02-2017 05:44 (GMT)


Nigel /


the trace could be left by Alien Craft , too

because Microwave isn't special phenomenon but only a type wave of some electronic waves .

As I said, I did not discount Menk

Mansi tribes sensed there was something wrong around Otorten before the incident. (from bizarre incidents)

there were 2 things mentioned by Mansi .

1 is golden ball
2 is Menk

You discounted 1 of them .



Expert 26-02-2017 05:26 (GMT)
Nigel /

You said that there was hot spot around ravine as well.
Do you have any information About the size, shape of the hot spot ?
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 18:01 (GMT)
As to the question "what creates the microwave system?", a shortwave version of this perhaps? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 17:02 (GMT)
Expert - just to restate - It's not "microwaves come from ball lightning" but "ball lightning comes from microwaves".
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 17:01 (GMT)
Expert - if the microwave energy is sufficiently strong to create a visual plasma at the anti node (BL) then it follows it would be strong enough to excite water molecules nearby (in the snow) and warm them up (melt) just like a microwave oven does. The effect should be circular if the wave system is static.

The same statement can be applied to the (genuine) crop circles were the stems aren't mechanically bent but seem to have folded with heat and steam believed to be due to microwaves and this effect is strongest in the centre and reduces (linearly?) to the circumference.

Seems to be the same thing.
Expert 25-02-2017 16:04 (GMT)


Nigel /

Microwave of Lightning make Ball lightning

Microwave trapped in BL made cold spot (wave type) around the tent.

that wasn't your idea ?
Expert 25-02-2017 15:48 (GMT)
http://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/srep/2016/160622/srep28263/images/w926/srep28263-f1.jpg you did not think (a)example made snow cold spot ?
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 15:40 (GMT)
Expert - good links, the Alaskan event would fit well with the my theory if a large group of nodes all became excited and visual with variable ground radar detection.

The Turkish events would have to be either genuine or a hoax imo, alien implants that just look like bits of glass pushes me to the hoax side...

N.B. i'm not trying to prove aliens don't exist, just that many ufo sightings might have a natural explanation.

It's not "microwaves come from ball lightning" but "ball lightning comes from microwaves".
Expert 25-02-2017 15:18 (GMT)
And We must totally discount Mansi witnesses about Menk ?
personally I don't discount the unknown life

Expert 25-02-2017 14:47 (GMT)
Ball Lightning , Lightning ..
the combination could make the incident .
I admit it s possible (from some hikers injuries)

but the possibility would be very rare.

1 ] BL around the tent made them scared
and they fled from tent to tree .
2 ] then, Lightning hit hikers under tree
3 ] next,,, Other powerful lightning hit hikers around ravine
and 2 hikers got bizarre injuries

why were the regional lightning or bl so bizarre around the incident ?

(some deer got vacant eyesokets as well)
Expert 25-02-2017 14:27 (GMT)
Microwave doesn't come only from ball lightning

I doubt Dubinnina bite tongue or BL caused it to be disappeared .

1)she Bite tongue ? ? ? ? ? ?

I bite my tongue in experiment now, haha ..
then, I bite Only 1/3 .. How HER Tongue could be pull out ?

2 ) BL or Lightning made it disappeared ?

- I Researched BL or Lightning injuries and couldn't find those injuries - removed eyes or tongues

Of course, Then, the force of lightning could make isolated incident .. but I doubt
Expert 25-02-2017 14:03 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdkQxG_q6Pk
Expert 25-02-2017 14:03 (GMT)
Nigel /

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case287.htm .
BL could be watched like those UFO?
Expert 25-02-2017 13:38 (GMT)
Nigel /

I read soldier or Geologist witnessed the several things
Expert 25-02-2017 13:34 (GMT)
Nigel /

Some witnesses said several lightning objects . It couldn't be like this ? Check out 3:22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUEjeYn5Obg
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 12:49 (GMT)
the last post was from my alter ego called "n" Happy
n 25-02-2017 12:48 (GMT)
Even better would be :-
Expert - the bl theory assumes that they stayed at the fire because they were unable to return to the tent because the bl was hovering there, (long enough to soften the snow). Doesn't have to be the same instance of bl that killed them and could have been lightning instead and if it was the same object then if it moved at speed it wouldn't melt the snow.....
Nigel Evans 25-02-2017 12:44 (GMT)
Sandro - personally i'll stick with the idea that they left the tent to escape a threat.

Expert - the bl theory assumes that they stayed at the fire because they were unable to return to the tent because the bl was hovering there, (long enough to soften the snow). Doesn't have to be the same instance of bl that killed them and could have been lightning instead.

All - crop circles may be caused by microwave energy - http://www.bltresearch.com/plantab.php n.b. ufo observers report "lights" over the fields on the same nights. Google "youtube cropcircle lights".
Expert 25-02-2017 11:59 (GMT)
Nigel /

I read the site written in Portugal language .

my question is ..

why wasn't the cold spot connected from the tent to the forest ? it mean the object rise up ? (before it chased the 9 hikers.)
Sandro 23-02-2017 14:02 (GMT)
Please check my explanation of the Dyatlov mystery as a conceivable theory at http://tungsteno.blog.tiscali.it/archives/579
Nigel Evans 23-02-2017 12:17 (GMT)
Expert - it's one of your links, drop this into google translate and search for "cold spot".
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm
Nigel Evans 23-02-2017 12:05 (GMT)
Expert - "Eyes witness with radar trace. "
Yes that's the point, the invisible microwave that can be seen by radar (depending on wavelength) can produce an object (ball lightning) that can be seen visually.
I'll have a dig for the hot spot.
Expert 23-02-2017 05:20 (GMT)
I can explain DPI with alien attack .
but this is so easy way .. like Pyramid was constructed with aliens . haha
I focus on nature phenomenon or human action
Nigel Evans 21-02-2017 08:33 (GMT)
Just re read my post, i meant to say "If an aircraft approaches being a metal object it will disturb the standing wave system and the changes will be seen to move very quickly."
Nigel Evans 16-02-2017 20:14 (GMT)
Building on this, it occurs to me that this is an explanation for UFOs.

If ball lightning can form in the antinode of a standing microwave system - https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi7vMrNtJXSAhUF2BoKHYPXB_8QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.antonine-education.co.uk%2FPages%2FPhysics_2%2FWaves%2FWAV_04%2FWaves_Page_4.htm&bvm=bv.147448319,d.d2s&psig=AFQjCNFITaQnu6KUXot7T0d6Dcw0ZrAM1w&ust=1487361755810914 Then what if the "ball" can become elongated and form a cigar? What if the the cigar becomes circular and forms a disc? If several antinodes in a line form balls then you have a "string of pearls".
The microwave standing wave system might produce radar frequencies and appear on radar. If an aircraft approaches this metal object it will disturb the standing wave system and the changes will be seen to move very quickly.

Now read this - http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chasing-ufos/articles/five-good-reasons-to-believe-in-ufos/
Nigel Evans 15-02-2017 08:34 (GMT)
Eureka!

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep28263 "Ball lightning, a fireball sometimes observed during lightnings, has remained unexplained. Here we present a comprehensive theory for the phenomenon: At the tip of a lightning stroke reaching the ground, a relativistic electron bunch can be produced, which in turn excites intense microwave radiation. "

N.B. the paper is from Nature a respected scientific journal.

So building on this paper, lightning produces intense microwave energy which can result in cattle mutilations and other effects - "Others57 reported skin redness, vomiting and loss of hair, which are typical results of ionizing radiation".

From historical records it is known that ball lightning can electrocute and explode so it provides a complete theory for the DPI, it can explain the fleeing from the tent, burns, barotrauma, loss of tongue, skin colour, hair loss, vomiting. The rescue from the collapsed den can explain injuries to hands and face consistent with fighting. It's all there.

The local mansi people had it right all along, it was the golden orbs....
Expert 15-02-2017 07:58 (GMT)
Of course, modern sleeping bag must be evolved than then. but I wondered - if they were the experienced hikers, why did not use sleeping bag ? and I wandered it as well - they felt very cold in the tent. but Why 2 Yuris were in slight wears in the tent.

Why 2 Yuris..............in terrible weather
????? why ?
Admin 14-02-2017 17:43 (GMT)
Syed Ikram Abidi said on FB: "Unanswered questions even for gravity theory:
1. The footsteps seemed to show a rather organized descent in group and the number showing all 9 people walking out of tent.
2. The gravity affected them so strongly and yet each of the contents in the tent even their shoes remained "as is" with no signs of sudden departure.
And many more...
Well thats why it will remain a mystery."
Nigel Evans 14-02-2017 17:42 (GMT)
I've just read the updated "Theories" page which includes an excellent section on Ball Lightning Happy

But wrt the gravity theory or lack of it.
Apparently a feature of cattle mutilations is that the animals can be found on snow or mud where there are no sign of any tracks leading to the animal.
It's as if they dropped from the sky....
However in the case of the DPI, the footprints would seem to undermine this a little Happy
Nigel Evans 13-02-2017 14:01 (GMT)
I've been thinking about the injuries attributed to fighting, specifically to the hands and the face and have an alternative theory.

These injuries seem to belong solely to ID, RS and ZK.

According to my "ravine explosion theory" these three are the last able bodied members (RS perhaps limited capability).

So what if the explosion resulted in a collapsed den burying them in deep snow?

The remaning three - ID, RS, ZK would try and rescue them and dig them out with their bare hands? They would know that time would be limited and they would have to work fast using their hands as shovels, picking up bruising, cuts and scratches on their hands. This might also involve tunneling resulting in a lot of facial scratches (from ice and twigs). There could perhaps be a further collapse of a rescue tunnel injuring RS who could originally be able bodied?

The rav4 were found in a close group with their heads together (one foot apart). SZ was wearing two items of LD's clothing. This fits with the pathologist's report that SZ outlived LD, so those looking after the victims removed clothing from LD after she died to make SZ more comfortable. They were found 6-10 meters from the den in a tight group because that's were the rescuers placed them after digging them out of the den.

As to the question, if the den collapsed do we need an explosion theory at all? Well i'm not qualified to differentiate the injuries between an explosion or the crushing force of a collapsed den (tonnes of snow?). A distinct feature here is that the strong force required to split rib cages didn't break any limbs at all, which imo favours explosion over crushing. So i'd still favour an explosive shock wave that created the flail chests but moved all the snow above as well collapsing the den and burying them.
Admin 12-02-2017 12:35 (GMT)
Rain /
You already asked this question on 2016-11-30 17:07:24
Rain 12-02-2017 10:33 (GMT)
Was there any blood found in Ms. Dubininas stomach?
Teddy 10-02-2017 23:14 (GMT)
Good arguments.
Nigel Evans 10-02-2017 23:00 (GMT)
Teddy - my research has it that :-
1. they had no use for the stove that night because they had no firewood. They travelled with 3 axes and some knives and would have collected firewood locally around the camp each evening. But that night of course was unusual in that they were above the treeline. It's possible that there was a change of plan due to the storm and they were originally planning to spend the night at the forest (with a hot stove). Their loads when they started out with all the food for the trip were 40kg for the men and 30kg for the girls. No room or need to carry firewood on your backs!
2. Most of their food (50kg) was left at the base camp for the return journey. From memory they had a 3kg piece of smoked brisket (beef) and some signs (pieces of rind) of consuming it that evening presumably cold. Although note that most of them hadn't eaten for 6-8 hours.
3. A flask of alcohol was found in the tent, i'm not aware of a report that says they were intoxicated.
4. Some of the burnt clothing will be from drying their kit on the stove for too long in previous evenings.

So i think the author has his facts wrong and more importantly skips over the central question that they had no time to collect footwear and outer clothing and were unable to return to the tent for some time afterwards. Difficult to blame that on some smoke....
Teddy 10-02-2017 18:41 (GMT)
A video about the stove causing the incident https://youtu.be/Y8RigxxiilI .

I know Nigel commented on Luk that "the stove was found dismantled, it wasn't used that evening" but the video says that there was fried bacon and ham (never heart of that before) so the stove must have been used earlier and an ember reignited after the stove was taken apart. The stove theory starts after the min 13:20. Another thing bothered me 5:27 "It should also be noted that four of them had died while intoxicated." referring to the first 5 bodies. I have to check just for my files how much was the alcohol in their blood, and presuming it was the men excluding Zina. MHO the facts are shaped around this theory. Every time somebody introduces a theory facts are being manipulated. Like the cooked food and consumed alcohol. I know they carried vodka, but no empty bottles were found.
Nigel Evans 09-02-2017 16:28 (GMT)
Expert - imo there is a fit between lightning, microwaves and cattle/mammal mutilations (CM) and possibly the DPI. I think there is something waiting for science to discover here that's got nothing to do with aliens Happy

Afaik the main features of CM are :-
1. Missing eyes and tongue at the front, missing genitalia and anal (blood rich) muscle at the rear.
2. Blood missing.
3. Cauterised wounds at the front and rear orificies (no bleeding).
4. No other damage to skin/hide.
5. Internal organs intact but unusual coloration.

The selectivity of the injuries seems to somehow be a fit with those posts on microwaves. Grapes = eyes, hot dogs = tongue.
Nigel Evans 08-02-2017 13:52 (GMT)
So that would be an explanation for LD's tongue and all cattle mutilations including the human mutilation brazil case. Microwave radiation that is present within thunder/lightning clouds, travels down a lightning bolt that acts as waveguide (tube) and any mammal close by suffers flash heating of blood rich tissue but not (fatty) skin creating specific repeatable injuries.
Nigel Evans 08-02-2017 13:43 (GMT)
http://ethw.org/Biological_Effects_of_Electromagnetic_Radiation "Complex spherical models of the human head consisting of a core of brain tissue and spherical shells simulating the skull and the scalp indicated that hot spots or localized regions of high energy absorption could occur in the center of the brain with magnitudes much higher than observed at the surface of the head due to the focusing of energy by the high dielectric constant and spherical shape of the head (Shapiro et ale [161], Guy [71]). More extensive analyses using spherical, prolate spherical, and ellipsoidal models created a much better understanding of the absorbed energy patterns in the bodies of man and animals exposed to EM fields (Ho et ale [78], Durney et ale [38], Johnson et ale [86], Massoudi et ale [113], Gandhi [62], Allen et ale [3])."

From memory expert's link to that russian site discusses the appearance of brain tissue.

But separate to that, it would follow that if the head focuses EM radiation then the greatest effect would be observed in the blood rich muscle tissue within the head, i.e. the tongue...
Nigel Evans 08-02-2017 13:08 (GMT)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation_and_health Shortwave RF

Shortwave diathermy heating of human tissue only heats tissues that are good electrical conductors, such as blood vessels and muscle. Adipose tissue (fat) receives little heating by induction fields because an electrical current is not actually going through the tissues.[19]
Nigel Evans 08-02-2017 12:50 (GMT)
You'll never eat a grape again....
https://www.wired.com/2014/05/wuwt-microwave-metal/ video clip at the bottom, grape microwave plasma.


https://www.wired.com/2014/05/wuwt-microwave-metal/ This same electromagnetic activity can do a number on metal. The oscillation of the microwaves can produce a concentrated electric field at corners or an edge of a metallic object, ionizing the surrounding air “so you can hear it popping away,” says Ross. You might also see sparking, which “is a little like lightning,” she adds. This kind of microwave sound and light show isn’t limited to metal. Ross sometimes puts on a demonstration for her kids: She cuts up hot dogs, creating sharp edges, and “watches the electric sparks jumping between them.”
Nigel Evans 07-02-2017 23:38 (GMT)
Wrt natural causes, one of the explanations for ball lightning is - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning#Microwave_cavity_hypothesis "Microwave cavity hypothesis

Pyotr Kapitsa proposed that ball lightning is a glow discharge driven by microwave radiation that is guided to the ball along lines of ionized air from lightning clouds where it is produced. The ball serves as a resonant microwave cavity, automatically adjusting its radius to the wavelength of the microwave radiation so that resonance is maintained.[66][67]

The Handel Maser-Soliton theory of ball lightning hypothesizes that the energy source generating the ball lightning is a large (several cubic kilometers) atmospheric maser. The ball lightning appears as a plasma caviton at the antinodal plane of the microwave radiation from the maser.[68]"

microwave radiation could perhaps explain the loss of iron rich soft tissues in cattle mutilations, blood, tongue, anal muscle....
Nigel Evans 07-02-2017 21:40 (GMT)
Expert - i understand your point that to explain this as natural causes requires the group to have been quite unlucky and that this justifies looking at other theories involving intelligence.

I'll stay with natural causes that science has yet to explain properly.
Nigel Evans 07-02-2017 16:38 (GMT)
expert - tell me more about the bizarre life wandering the forest?
Nigel Evans 06-02-2017 11:08 (GMT)
Expert - your photo looks like 3.5 seats! Happy
Ok it's my assumption that the photo represents 4 seats that have been disturbed. Certainly doesn't look like 7 or 9. Four deaths in the ravine and what looks like four seats... Plus injuries consistent with fighting. Hence a reasonable assumption that the group split up.
Nigel Evans 06-02-2017 08:24 (GMT)
Expert - there were only 4 seats in the den, so it's seems very reasonable that the group split into two or there would be more seats.
Expert 05-02-2017 17:59 (GMT)
If this was nature disaster, I expect it - they all would die in tent . because the tent was isolated place where all disaster power could focus .
Expert 05-02-2017 17:10 (GMT)
I think ... about why the group was divided into three group .

they were not divided , but just working in each role.
-They make a fire under Cedar tree,,because of sever weather. but they got aware - that can be dangerous .
so well dressed peoples go to dig a den , slightly dressed peoples (2peoples) warm bodies around little fire.
3 peoples (igor group) collect branches and carry to the den.
Then there are first attack around Cedar .


I am still investgating this incident. - the 4 peoples were known to die at last moment.
Expert 05-02-2017 16:54 (GMT)
Puzzled /
we maybe don't know most important information.

some soviet governors would know it .



Expert 05-02-2017 15:55 (GMT)
Hungarus /

ok, your mention is thoughtful
but
those photos have been spread on internet.
and this site exist for debating the cause.

the important thing to me is how they got the injury. I don't want to know who they are..
but wanna know what force through the injuries.
Nigel Evans 05-02-2017 12:29 (GMT)
Puzzled - the den only had 4 seats so it's clear that the group split up, probably due to ID and SZ arguing over the decision making. YD and YK might have been dead by then also. So plenty of reasons for a brawl. They shouldn't have left the base camp in snow storm, "caution is the better part of valour", "safety first". I'm sure there was a disagreement over that and tempers boiled over.
Puzzled 05-02-2017 09:54 (GMT)
Dear all, I wondered if it is possible that the incident took place somewhere different and then after some time, the bodies -dead or alive- carried by the military to the Dyatlv Pass after interrogation. Pros: 1) we do not know the exact time of death. Last photo and diary entry belongs to feb 1 and the tent is found on feb 24...all we know is tourists are dead appr. a couple of hours after their last meal...are we absolutely sure that ie the team did not die/left to dyatlv pass on feb14? 2) extensive non lethal wounds on the team members, ie knuckle wounds that resembles a fist fight and especially cuts. Might be due to interrogation? 3) missing films and diaries from the tent 4) the piece of clothing found around the tent that does not belong to the tourists Cons: skin pieces on cedar tree bark...
Admin 03-02-2017 19:58 (GMT)
Hungarus/
Can you right click, View Image Info, copy the name of the images you consider offensive and send them to info(at)dyatlov-pass.com
Hungarus 03-02-2017 17:52 (GMT)
Please black out the intimate body parts of the deceased. Thank you.
Expert 02-02-2017 10:03 (GMT)
Gull Cottage /

I don't think the tribe told a lie.
but I think they knew a wrong truth - that was not Yeti and the program,,Russian Yeti,, drove the being to Yeti.


Expert 02-02-2017 09:53 (GMT)
admin , Nigel /

great working of him.
I am very interested ,, I feeling like time-machine photo. haha
(I got wrong information ?? I thought their skin turn brown , but she just got brown spot.)

I highly appreciate lightning presumption of Nigel - the possibility seems to be higher than I thought earlier ,,
I got the awareness after research lightning disasters on internet...

Of course, I have some reasons I keep alien attack presumption.

I will debate diverse possibility with open mind .




Nigel Evans 02-02-2017 09:04 (GMT)
Gull Cottage - arguments against a cover up :-
1. The government spent a lot of money investigating it.
2. The first thing Boris Yeltsin did on taking control of the country was to interview the relevant management to discover what they knew about the DPI.
3. "Unknown and compelling force" isn't very creative as a cover up. Imo it's the best argument against one.
Gull Cottage 02-02-2017 03:55 (GMT)
For 54 years life went on as normal, then While watching the Discovery Channel, The Yeti Lives (I think that was the title?) ...with little interest, don't get me wrong I believe that the Yeti is real. The DC reaches deep into the tradegy, based on one photo to fit their documentary. During this brief snippet my jaw dropped and I instantly grabbed my computer and MY journey into this surreal event started. Like so many others, as I read comments over many years, it seems that SOME are truely COMPLELLED to research only credible facts to consider the truth vs. fantasy. My first attempt at finding facts left me horrified and overwhelmed with sadness, to imagine having to tell their families of the unbelievably painful passing of their children. Each new research session moved me from a heavy heart to "wait a minute, this can't be right" then the deeper I searched I started getting madder and madder, realizing this was a complete set up. The "RED HERRINGS" are endless and the list of facts, based on ALL the investigations, photos, diaries and first hand accounts are far to many to mention. Like so many, I go over every detail available and come back to - NO WAY this is anything but a cover up by "The Powers That Be" circa, 1959 Russia. The only revaluation I thought of concerning possible cause, was that in the 1950's the Soviet Union was doing R&D on Laser (Maser) technology. This effort was geared solely toward warfare but would later be applied to many other positive applications. The first U.S. patient was in 1960. This will be my only post, only to honor the memory of The Dyatlov Expedition members and their families. This historical event can become addictive and unproductive. My faith lies completely in Jesus Christ and I will wait to find out the truth when I reach the other side.
Nigel Evans 01-02-2017 22:15 (GMT)
admin - happy to do so even though all three are from wikipedia! Happy and thanks for the interest.

[20] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning [21] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundersnow [22] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning scroll down to "Positive and negative lightning"

as an aside note the comment that aircraft might not be protected from positive polarity lightning....

btw it's lightning not lightening.

I forgot to mention that Ivanov apparently favoured "the fireball theory", perhaps your entry should correct that.

Cheers Nigel.
Admin 01-02-2017 21:03 (GMT)
Nigel Evans/
Can you give me the references [20], [21] and [22], I want to rephrase my text for your theory that I published under http://dyatlov-pass.com/theories#lightening
Nigel Evans 01-02-2017 18:29 (GMT)
Seems the contribution has been deleted because it is "original research without a reliable source". Well if it's that new (and original) it wont have a reliable source! Other than the author Happy
I've complained and pointed out that the explanation section should state that Ivanov favoured ball lightning (although that gets a mention further on) and my contribution is to observe that cold weather lightning could explain the injuries together with suggesting a timeline. Imo more sensible than yetis and infrasound...
Nigel Evans 01-02-2017 17:56 (GMT)
@all - or i'm trying to add my theory to wikipedia but someone is undoing it! Here's my contribution :-

Ball lightning and Lightning
Nigel Evans at http://dyatlov-pass.com/comments has proposed an explanation for the event including a combination of ball lightning and lightning strikes. The tent slits, hot spot near the tent and a camera on a makeshift tripod suggest that they were observing something in the sky. Given that the local Mansi people blamed the golden orbs for the tragedy and the repeated sightings of lights in the sky from reliable witnesses in the same period together with photos from the group's cameras possibly of aerial lights, it is plausible that the group fled from the tent due to an occurrence of ball lightning [20] getting very close to the tent and hovering there melting the snow beneath to create the hot spot. The group then hurried to the treeline 1500 metres away and lit a fire whilst they waited for the object to disappear. The theory then describes how the two deaths at the cedar were due a single electrocution event (due to normal lightning strike or ball lightning) creating burnt hair, bleeding head orifices, large burns, burnt clothing, pulmonary edema and tree damage and the subsequent four deaths in the ravine due to an explosion event near to the den (again due to a more powerful lightning strike or ball lightning). Although cold weather lightning is rare it is possible see [21]. The theory suggests that the ravine lightning strike hit close to the den and vapourised a substantial quantity of stream water, snow and ice (positive polarity strikes - [22] can produce 300,000 amps and temperatures several times hotter than the surface of the sun, e.g. 30,000C) creating an explosion amplified by the confines of the ravine that threw the den and it's occupants 6 to 10 metres resulting in blunt force injuries similar to a car accident or barotrauma. The theory suggests that the three surviving members died in two groups, RS was injured and urgently had to be returned to the tent assisted by ZK. Due to snow drifts and high winds he collapsed on the journey and ZK also further on due to the same plus exhaustion from the effort of assisting him. ID remained with the ravine four as LD and SZ although badly injured stayed alive for some time afterwards and NTB was unconcious. ID may have stripped the two bodies at the cedar (turning the bodies) to provide more insulation for those still alive and possibly contributed some of his own. Some time later he decided to abandon his vigil and return to the tent but died being the only member of the group to have clear signs of hypothermia.


The above may or may not appear on the wikipedia page depending...
Admin 01-02-2017 17:27 (GMT)
Thumbs up
Nigel Evans 01-02-2017 17:15 (GMT)
@all i've added my theory to wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident and linked to this page.

@admin - i've included the link on the assumption that you approve of the exposure, please advise if otherwise.
It's only me 01-02-2017 13:52 (GMT)
I just wanted to say thank you for the website. I've recently played the computer game Kholat and it has got me interested in the mystery. This website is solely responsible for generating my interest further, thank you for the valuable information.

Personally, a combination of madness and fear of an avalanche caused the incident. But I've ordered some books and I look forward to piecing it all together soon.
Nigel Evans 30-01-2017 12:08 (GMT)
Expert - i don't see how they could take photos of lightning with that camera equipment. They'd be photographing something more persistent, like...... Happy
Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 17:27 (GMT)
Ken - surely the slits and the camera on a tripod indicate they were observing from within the tent.
None of the ravine 4 could have walked after their injuries. AK snapped neck, LD+SZ flail chests.

Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 17:16 (GMT)
I disagree2 - by the way the cedar was by far the the tallest tree at that location. Plus if the wind dropped the rising plasma from the fire could have encouraged a strike.

ken 29-01-2017 15:58 (GMT)
Author Keith McCloskey has calculated that some of the group were outside the tent photographing some kind of light in the sky for at least 2 mins ( this is deduced by reference to the Yakimenko examination of the negatives of the group cameras and a video presentation of lecture Yakimenko made at the Ural Federal University at the annual Dyatlov Conference 2015) and alludes to the fact that SZ leaves the tent fully dressed with his camera still around his neck making it very likely in his understandable opinion that there is a clear connection between the lights and their flight but like the rest of us cant pin down what that might be....2 of these negatives seem to depict a section of rocket or plane which may have broken off after a failed military experiment of possibly a 2 stage rocket launch.I believe this however coincided with something else going on as i believe that the 4 in the den were injured there and that certainly Tibo could not have walked after his injuries ,that is if we are to accept the footprint evidence or indeed any of the evidence as real and not dressed-up after the event by the Military once we decide upon how the Military may have known that they were there...... were they stalked or did predators come upon them by accident?If they were stalked was this the real reason that they took a wrong turn onto the mountain away from their planned route?Was the Military stalking them? Was SZ a KGB minder so this was unnecessary?Did Khanty hunters stalk them and did the Shaman interpret the unusual lights in the night sky as permission from the spirits to uphold their tradition that to them the mountain was sacred and forbidden to strangers especially to women who may not gaze upon it?Indeed had some of the group cut slit holes so as to surveil where their stalkers might be? ( i write this assuming that someone cant come up with a solution to how an apparent rocket or plane wing caused their deaths and their bodies to be found in various locations well away from the tent or why after the event they should have chosen to get out of it ) The case of the Khanty hunters made by Svetlana Oss ends with a possible clue regarding a rifle but no more is heard about that.There may be a number of problems with the Khanty hunter did it scenario such as 1) if the aim was to kill the tourists by hypothermia why did they allow some of the group to leave the tent fairly well-dressed : for all they knew these individuals may have continued walking away making them very hard to find again or did they go with them on skis and 2) why didnt they kill them at the tent if ritualistic murder was always their intention? The negatives referred to above are shown in the appendix of Keiths 2nd book journey to Dyatlov Pass an explanation ( and whilst i dont want to be rude to him but there isnt one here)

Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 13:41 (GMT)
I disagree2 - i look forward to your theory for the burnt tree tops.
I disagree2 29-01-2017 13:19 (GMT)
Great info. But I insist, several lightenings (at least 4 or 5 in the theory) and all of them ignores tallest conductors? I'm still scheptical about the theory. But nice info!
Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 13:14 (GMT)
I disagree - http://stormhighway.com/lightning_always_strikes_tallest_object_myth.php
I disagree 29-01-2017 13:04 (GMT)
About the lightening theory, they wheren't on the highest spot of the pass. Actually there are plenty of higher spots on the map that a lightening would strike first...
Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 12:28 (GMT)
Expert - good link. interesting that ZK's and ID bruises were believed to be due to rope marks. Could have been due to exertions of previous days of course.
Admin 29-01-2017 11:50 (GMT)
Expert/
It certainly does. I am adding links to Dyatlovmania page as I follow your discussion and I will certainly translate some of the content of this site. Your comments are much appreciated.
Admin 29-01-2017 11:37 (GMT)
First was discovered Liuda, then the others
http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/Lyudmila-Dubinina-post-mortem-1.jpg
Admin 29-01-2017 11:35 (GMT)
The search party covered the bodies and left them there through the night.
Nigel Evans 29-01-2017 11:07 (GMT)
asrin - my theory is that they died where found, no one was moved.

curious - lots of snow plus lots of wind equals little snow in exposed sites and lots of snow in sheltered places (wind drifts). The ravine was full to the brim (flat) with snow.
We don't know what YK and YD wore, ZK+RS were well dressed.

Expert - the branch probably broke off in the wind Happy. If lightning can do this - http://suffolk-cache.iwitness24.co.uk/en/photos/news/2012-04-21/2305/oak-tree-struck-by-lightning/medium/3349-storm-010-jpg.jpg it can break a branch.
Expert 29-01-2017 10:36 (GMT)
Curious /

This is the things I can answer.
1) They fell or were thrown into snow pile around ravine .

2) The Question was one of the reasons why I suspected they were sacrificed by artificial force.

3) I don't know what you mean. that is trustworthy information ?
Expert 29-01-2017 10:36 (GMT)
Nigel /

Do you think this broken branch was caused by lightning ?
http://gipotezi.ru/sites/default/files/images/1(4).jpg This would be made by someone climbing tree to watch out the force , and he left skin tissue of him on Cedar bark .

Do you think
they couldn't know that was a nature disaster since they fled from the tent ? ?

[ other disaster they encountered was sever weather.
If I was one of them, I would return fastly for some clothes , shoes, tent.
So I guess there was the force around tent ]
Curious 29-01-2017 09:45 (GMT)
Hi, I observe some oddities that have not been discussed throughly:
1) The amount of snow on the area: When the search party arrived,there were still foot prints around the tent and through the forest for some 500mts. So it did not snow much after the incident...How come the 4 corpses in the ravine found under 4mts of snow?
2) It is also strange that only the better clothed team members (found in the ravine) have mortal wounds. It is as if someone used brutal force as a last resort only for the skiers that will not be killed by the cold weather...Government involvement?
3) Offical cover up/disinformation: Maria Ivanovna (medical assistant) claims she saw 11 bodies not 9...But the ravine group was found 3 months later so, she should have seen 5 (or 7 seven bodies first) then + 4 corpses, 3 months later..
IMHO, official reports may not be that trustworthy.
asrın sırrı 28-01-2017 23:17 (GMT)
I guess you do not understand what I want to say @ Nigel.
LD, SK received fatal wounds near the cedar tree. Were taken to the side of the river afterwards?
Nigel Evans 28-01-2017 22:46 (GMT)
asrin - do you mean why did they go to the ravine if the cedar had proved to be dangerous?
asrın sırrı 28-01-2017 20:18 (GMT)
@Nigel, hi.

So LD, SK, before the death of the cedar was next to the tree, then taken to the side of the river, was not safe place?
Nigel Evans 28-01-2017 13:45 (GMT)
Expert - interesting question about the eyeballs, don't know why they were blanked out.

"I think those were burnt by their fire around Cedar tree".
Well it is a big burn, 31cm, charred down to the tissue. He would have to be unconscious (or dead).
Nigel Evans 28-01-2017 13:14 (GMT)
Expert - "And it is not weird for lightning to melt only snow without affecting soil or making holes ? ? "

No, if the stream provided a good earth then the current wouldn't leave a crater, it would just follow the stream overground. Might vapourise the stream of course. If there was any damage to the stream bed this would be hidden by the water which would have strengthened by the time they were found.
Nigel Evans 28-01-2017 12:56 (GMT)
Expert - lightning strikes differ considerably in their strength. 90% of people survive a strike. But the stronger ones can throw a victim thirty feet through the air causing them to typically land on their head. Another feature is that much of the current can travel on the outer layer of clothing causing it vapourise in the heat. So victims of strong lightning strikes can be found dead, naked with head injuries prompting the police investigation to initially consider lethal violence. If the victim is female then sexual violence.
Or they can be found with severe burns of course.

It all depends on the current and it's strength and path to earth. Some people just feel a strong tingle and live, some get killed, thrown and stripped naked, others get bad burns.

So my theory is :-

Cause of fleeing from the tent - lightning strike close to the tent or ball lightning. The slits and hot spot could be due to either, the camera on a tripod favours ball lightning.

Cause of deaths at fire - mild lightning strike directly hitting the 2 yuris, damaging the cedar branches and scorching the tree tops. Also creates burnt clothing.

Cause of deaths in ravine - the group had split into two due to fighting. The ravine four made a snow cave that had four seats. RS went to talk to them. A powerful explosion occurred close to the den either by a lightning strike or ball lightning. This threw the rav4 6 to 10 metres from the den (with a lot of snow) into the stream. LD and SZ got the shockwave the worst, NTB and AK less but they suffered a severe skull fracture and a broken neck as they landed. RS being nearby was thrown but not violently enough to be fatal (or he was lucky) but still another head injury. RS was found to have wrinkled "prune" skin on his feet. A possible cause is that he landed in the stream and his right boot filled with water.

Cause of death of last three - ID, ZK rush over to help. The explosion has thrown tons of snow into the air and off the trees which is covering the bodies. LD and SZ are still alive but unable to move. AK is dead with a broken neck and NTB is unconcious (and never recovers) from the head injury. RS is moving, dazed but concious. Clearly RS's only chance is to get him back to the tent. So ZK leaves with RS whilst ID tends to the wounded and the dying. But the wind and/or the snow drifts defeat them and RS collapses, his body still warm enough to melt the snow beneath him. ZK is stronger but she falls into a deep snow drift that defeats her, she dies from exhaustion (RS would have been a big burden) but not hypothermia.
ID stays at the ravine trying to help LD, NTB and SZ. as a true professional KGB agent, SZ is trying to write in his diary but fails. LD is alive for 20 minutes (the patholgist estimated this from the internal bleeding this is apparently possible even though a rib had punctured her heart). Although three are still alive ID cannot leave them to freeze to death, he tries to make them comfortable by stripping the two Yuris of their clothes and dressing the survivors with extra layers whilst he waits for ZK to return. He waits but he is getting very cold. Finally he decides that ZK isn't returning (or all three appear to be dead) and heads for the tent. But he has waited too long and is the only member of the group that dies with the classic symptoms of hypothermia.
Nigel Evans 25-01-2017 13:02 (GMT)
Expert - http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/what-does-it-look-when-person-gets-struck-lightning/ "Although these marks look pretty damn cool, they are extremely rare, and most people come off much worse when struck by lightning! So don't try to recreate them at home by shocking yourself. "

Good advice Happy
asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 23:35 (GMT)
I guess they did not leave traces. And even if they cause the bones to break, should they cause harm to the soft bones? Maybe it's a ridiculous theory.
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 23:33 (GMT)
asrin - well as far as i know it's a new theory, but i think they would leave some tracks?
asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 23:03 (GMT)
I have heard that there may be deers in the dyatlov gated area. Could the deer have crushed the mountaineers?

http://www.nolm.us/wp-content/uploads/kanadada-serbestce-dolasan-ren-geyigi-surusu-nolmus-15.jpg
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 22:56 (GMT)
asrin - "deer rug could have crushed them" doesn't translate?
asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 22:01 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans
Do you think the deer rug could have crushed them? (:
asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 21:23 (GMT)
@Expert
Tongue and eyes can be eaten by rotten or flying rattles for a long time due to snow and river water.
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 19:55 (GMT)
Expert :-

1. lightning just outside the tent, (hot spot) scared them into running away. The slits are from watching lightning approach. If it's 2-3 miles away you can't even hear the thunder due to the snow (thundersnow). So it could quite scary.
2. Cedar and ravine could have been one multiple strike or two seperate strikes. I favour one strike that splits into two. Lichtenberg figures are typically were the victim lives from a mild strike. Note you can't see any on this guy - http://www.eplasty.com/article_images/eplasty08e46_fig1.gif One of the Yuris had black arms from the hands to the elbow and a 31 cm burn on the leg and foot. Good question why the autopsy didn't ask about electrocution. All the evidence fits including pulmonary edema (but several causes for that one).
Expert 24-01-2017 19:24 (GMT)
I will study lightning presumption more .. as it is possible on my thought
Expert 24-01-2017 19:21 (GMT)
Of course, I think lightening is the best idea of nature disaster. I will study this more
but even this doesnot look perfect. .
Expert 24-01-2017 19:12 (GMT)

Nigel /

this is the looks when eagles were struck by lightning .
http://m0.i.pbase.com/o3/90/560490/1/89247750.UgDu57WV.05.JPG this is the looks of human struck by lightning
he was not burnt , but got mark
https://i2.wp.com/www.capturedlightning.com/frames/human_LF2.jpg My question
1950's Experts couldn't know their injury were related to lightning ?
4 peoples dig a den after lightning strike around cedar . and third strike ? 1, 2, 3 ?


Expert 24-01-2017 18:17 (GMT)
They were frightened by lightning collision
They fled from the tent urgently
They gathered around cedar tree
They were attacked by second lightning around Cedar
They got damaged
They scattered from Cedar

Expert 24-01-2017 18:05 (GMT)
(I focus on lightning possibility. . Except for presumption on aliens)
Expert 24-01-2017 17:54 (GMT)
At least, you need to complete explaining removed eyes or tongue ,,
it is hard homework for lightning ^ ^
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 17:41 (GMT)
Expert - no, my "lightning at the tent" theory is that the strike was near the tent at the hot spot. So no need to consider burn marks on the tent.
Expert 24-01-2017 17:36 (GMT)
Nigel /
If lightning was responsible for the incident, the tent was burnt by it , wasn't it ?
Expert 24-01-2017 17:27 (GMT)
asrın sırrı /
Well, I think avalanche presumption is very unlikely.
only a little snow covered the tent ! and there were many footprint from tent to 500M site. even a little wind could cause tent in steep hill to be covered.
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 16:11 (GMT)
asrin - problems with the avalanche theory :-
1. there's no sign of one, not even a small slab avalanche. Alpine experts were part of the investigation.
2. their last meal was 6-8 hours previously so it's highly probable that they died by 8-9pm. So they weren't sleeping. Very likely to have been sitting.
3. No broken limbs which could be expected.
4. The footprints would have indicated if people were being carried or limping.
5. LD's and SZ's injuries were too severe for them to go anywhere even if stretchered. LD had a broken rib pushed into her heart. Impossible for those two to have walked or even be helped, the flail chests meant that each breath would have been extremely painful. They died quickly afterwards, with SZ found trying to make a note in his diary. If they had have died at the tent then why not leave them there? Or else drag the bodies?


asrın sırrı 24-01-2017 15:37 (GMT)
A russian scientist predicts;
The mountaineers were sleeping in the tent, perhaps crossing the sleepers in a small avalanche.
Sleeping at the entrance of the tent door RUSTEM SLOBODIN (not much damage) LIUDMILA DUBININA, SEMIAN ZOLOTARYOV, NIKOLAI THIBEAUX-BRIGNOLLES are injured due to the avalanche effect.
The mountaineers are tearing the tent on this event and bring their wounded friends to the forest side more safely. There are a total of 8 footprints on the ground. Because probably NIKOLAI THIBEAUX-BRIGNOLLES died in the tent. 5 people who are in good condition after they hurt their wounded friends also die hypothermia.
It is quoted in a document. Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rItOKPEiC4
Nigel Evans 24-01-2017 10:50 (GMT)
Expert - the hotspot could have been from a lightning strike. If so then it's possible that they got an electric shock from the voltage difference (if they weren't insulated within the tent they could have been killed). The bamboo pole might have been damaged by the strike. Clearly it would make sense to immediately evacuate the exposed position on the hill and seek shelter within the tree line and build a big fire to stay warm.
Expert 24-01-2017 09:47 (GMT)
Nigel / -25'c with slight clothing is not a nature threat ? the torture could make all adventure possible.
If the threat was lightening ,
they might want rather lightening than the state .

Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 23:08 (GMT)
like lightning.
Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 22:28 (GMT)
Expert - so that was the nature of the threat, immediately dangerous/deadly but expected to go away soon.
Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 22:13 (GMT)
Expert - the point i made there - "they had to flee without time to grab clothing but they were waiting by the cedar for the chance to return to the tent."

Suggests that they had to immediately leave but they expected to be able to return shortly.
Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 21:25 (GMT)
Expert - the plan was that the night on the mountain was the start of a circular hike for about three days, returning to the same place. So they left approx 50kg of supplies of mainly food for the return journey afterwards in a cache near the river. I originally thought that when they left the tent they had intended to return to this store and had gone to the cedar in error. But on further reflection i think they chose the cedar on purpose. The cache was just food and very little clothing so no reason to go there.
It's a fascinating problem, they had to flee without time to grab clothing but they were waiting by the cedar for the chance to return to the tent.
Expert 23-01-2017 19:51 (GMT)
Nigel / Slight Wear at less -25' for hours , which is really terrible torture.
I have a question , do you know ? : they had storage house near tent . what it looked like ? How far it was away from tent ?
Nigel Evans 23-01-2017 12:56 (GMT)
Expert - yes, what forced them to leave the tent AND prevented them from returning is the big question".
Expert 23-01-2017 11:52 (GMT)
Today, I experienced -16'C . I was sure again the force of Dyatlov pass caused terrible fear.
Nigel Evans 21-01-2017 21:53 (GMT)
Expert - i'm not saying that i know how it happened, just that lightning in those forms can explain the facts.
Nigel Evans 21-01-2017 12:04 (GMT)
Expert - the central question is not "why did they flee the tent?".
but
"why did they flee the tent and then light a fire 1500 metres away but still unable to return to the tent although suffering from frostbite in -20C?".

There aren't lot of possibilities to answer this :-
1. Prisoners - but no sign of attackers.
2. Madness or intoxication - but clear signs of orderly organising the fire and the den.
3. Animals or Yetis - you don't light a fire.
4. Aliens - you don't light a fire.
5. Natural phenomena like lightning or ball lightning - the slits strongly suggest that they were watching something. The hot spot suggests a heat source, lightning or ball lightning would fit.
You can have cold lightning, synoptic snowstorms can produce it and the most dangerous type positive polarity. Lightning is produced by friction of atmospheric ice. By far the most common cause of this is warm moist air meeting cold air as in classic thunderstorms but it isn't the only cause and there may be causes that aren't properly understood as suggested in the paper i posted below. An explosion, heat and electrocution explain all the facts of the dpi case other than radiation which i assume to be from contamination with ground sources.
Nigel Evans 20-01-2017 23:45 (GMT)
Expert - there was the "hot spot" at the tent, 4metres in diameter were the snow had melted and refrozen. That and the tent slits favour BL.
Me:) 20-01-2017 21:53 (GMT)
I think the lights and the cracking sound were what killed them. It could account for the injuries they received,like the eyes and tongue gone. It sounds like it was some kind of nuclear explosions in the sky. IDK. I can only guess.
Asrın Sırrı 20-01-2017 21:05 (GMT)
@ Expert, yeah me too.

No new theories ?
Nigel Evans 20-01-2017 20:52 (GMT)
Expert - BL at the tent , BL or lightning can explain the cedar and ravine. The tent slits heavily lean to BL at the tent. It's probable that the cedar and ravine are a single lightning strike.
Nigel Evans 20-01-2017 11:25 (GMT)
Expert - hi, nice to see you back Happy

Whether alien visitation is real or not i don't see a connection with the dpi.

The two events (cedar and ravine) could have been due to a single lightning strike, see - https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=multiple+lightning+strikes&view=detailv2&&id=F2A9BCAC986B61E87315FDAB7D1DF520DC019B61&selectedIndex=16&ccid=iqmaSbU0&simid=608052041959866622&thid=OIP.M8aa99a49b534f0f9712ba5aa7cf28fe1o0&ajaxhist=0 or google "multiple lightning strikes"

i.e. the primary path was in the ravine and a secondary path hit two people at the cedar attracted by the stream of ionised particles rising from the fire.

The den in the ravine had seats made out of branches but interestingly there were only four. Presumably for the four that died there. So this infers that the group split into two probably due to dissatisfaction with ID's leadership.

For me what's interesting about the missing eyes and tongue is the overlap with "mammalian mutulations". I'm coming to the view that these are due to some form of lightning strike that isn't understood yet. The brazil case has good indicators of a lightning strike. No clothes, serious burns.
Admin 20-01-2017 10:02 (GMT)
To allow corrections of typos we will have to impose registration. I can not correct but I can delete entries of spammers.
If you want to correct something please make another entry with the correct spelling and send me an email to info(at)dyatlov-pass.com to delete the wrong entry.
Expert 20-01-2017 09:58 (GMT)
My Opinion is .. I think We must not discount all incident related to aliens visiting.

and about Ball lightening Nigel insist

1) it is unlikely
the objects were divided into ''first explosion object and second explosion object''
(that sound like they were alive)

2) the object damaged cedar tree ?
if so, The cedar tree must be damaged by explosion as well as burnt trace.

3) Ball Lightening is not proper to explain the injuries - removed tongue or eye balls .
(any predators don't eat other animals like the way)
Expert 20-01-2017 09:57 (GMT)
I know some cases about sky hovering balls from global incident.
there were many witnesses that was related to alien crafts .
Except for foreign countries case, I will say the only incidents that happened in Our country.

3 pilots in South Korea chased hovering skyballs in past time (about 60years before)
one of them said
" I don't think that was a secret weapon made in different country . Because That was too high technology to be made by human .......
that disappeared instantly at tremendous speed when we chased it. "

another case is testified by a old monk on TV
she lived in deep mountain
Oneday, she felt extraordinary at night time ..

Q) Why did you feel extraordinary then ?
A) I reared some animals but the animals started to cry and there was very bright light from door.
Q) What did you see ?
A) Yes, there were red light balls over my yard .
Q) What did you think of the sky balls ??
A) Earlier , I just have no idea on that. but now, I think they were aliens from outer space. I was just scared by them.
Q) Did you see lives in craft ?
A) Yes
Q) How ?
A) Lives came out of the craft through a light. Not stair.
Q) Couldn't they humans ??
A) they weren't human and they did not use any language to communicate with me.
but I could got it . even I can write it on paper using only number 1 and 2 .

She said this "they were kind beings to me, I hope to meet them again. "
So I wanted to build this landing site .


this sites were made by her proposal
(and it is known some ones helped her)

http://pds13.egloos.com/pds/200901/16/60/a0106360_497048126fe7f.jpg
Asrın Sırrı 18-01-2017 02:18 (GMT)
Yes @Nigel.

I believe in lightning theory right now.
Nigel Evans 18-01-2017 00:01 (GMT)
asrin - it's an alternative possibilty to the avalanche theory that's all.
But i think the lightning theory is much better.

I
Asrın Sırrı 17-01-2017 22:54 (GMT)
@Nigel, What did you mean ? This snow roller is related to hikers ?
Nigel Evans 17-01-2017 11:51 (GMT)
Something i haven't seen discussed before wrt leaving the tent is snow rollers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_roller
Asrın Sırrı 16-01-2017 15:59 (GMT)
Thanks @Nigel.
The image that is related to Yeti is a picture that discovery channel appeared recently.
That's why I do not think it's for me to for yeti's.
@Random: This event could be a lightning bolt, a lightning bolt, a biological weapon. There is doubt about the oldest member of the group.

Finally: I guess this event is exactly what we will never know.

What were the other members of the group writing on their cameras and diaries? Maybe they will explain everything. Only Allah knows.
Nigel Evans 16-01-2017 15:27 (GMT)
asrin - i don't know if it's real Happy.

It's frame no17 from NTB's camera. It has spawned the yeti theory but as the author of this site points out there are tracks between the camera and the figure, probably one of the party went to the toilet and NTB took a photo as a joke. Pity he didn't get a better focus to silence the yeti theorists....
Random 16-01-2017 14:19 (GMT)
I posted a comment about it being a biological attack and it was deleted. A biological parasite from the oldest member of the group, (as the bodies closest to him had extensive injuries) who had a mysterious past for his time and unknown reasons for being a nomad traveling with college students. This is hypothesis that no one mentions in any publications and should be considered. Most feel the military was testing a nuclear weapon when it may have been biological.
Asrın Sırrı 16-01-2017 14:11 (GMT)
@Nigel, this photo is real ?

Thibeaux-Brignolles camera :

http://dyatlov-pass.com/camera-thibeaux-brignolles http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Thibeaux-Brignolles-camera-film3-17.jpg
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 21:09 (GMT)
asrin - SZ was attempting to write in his diary so presumably he had eyes at that point Happy.

So SZ and LD eyes are easily explained as predation or freeze/thaw or water erosion or a combination post mortem.

LD swallowed blood before dying so clearly the tongue was injured before or at the fatal event. Best guess is that the blast wave made her bite it badly and that attracted predation.
A wilder theory is that our science knows that lightning produces antimatter which immediately annihilates with normal matter. So it's theoretically possible perhaps that the vacuum phase of the explosion made her draw antimatter across her face and into her mouth. N.B. that there's an overlap in this injury with cattle mutilation and the "human mutilation brazil" case. So i'm just guessing that one day science will find a connection. But probably beyond our lifetimes. But these cases resonate empirically.
Asrın Sırrı 15-01-2017 19:45 (GMT)
@NigelEvans
Thanks for all the information.
The result: the lightning that killed the Dyatlov climbers.
So, lost tongue, missing eyeballs, what is the explanation for this? Thanks, Nigel.
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 18:02 (GMT)
Another explanation for the hot spot outside the tent is that is was perhaps where a conventional lighning bolt hit the earth. Only this wasn't focused by a stream or an irrigation pipe and hence didn't create a crater, just an area 4 metres in diameter of melted snow that the wind formed into ridges as it re froze.
But not only would the bolt be incredibly bright but it would probably collapse the tent.
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 17:45 (GMT)
asrin - for your information :-

http://www.lightning.ece.ufl.edu/PDF/Rakov_2003.pdf SUMMARY.
Our knowledge of the physics of posi-
tive lightning remains much poorer than that of nega-
tive lightning. Many questions regarding the genesis
of positive lightning and its properties cannot be an-
swered without further research. It is worth noting
that attempts to initiate positive lightning using the
rocket-and-wire technique generally result in dis-
charges that are composed of the initial stage (rela-
tively low-level, long-lasting current component) that
is not followed by positive leader/return-stroke se-
quences. Bipolar lightning is an even less understood
and often unrecognized phenomenon. While some
simple cloud charge distributions, such as a “tilted
dipole,” an “inverted dipole,” or a “positive mono-
pole,” can apparently explain the generation of posi-
tive lightning, the occurrence of bipolar lightning, as
well as complex cloud discharges, suggests that the
cloud charge structure cannot always be described by
simple, vertically stacked charge models. It is likely
that positively and negatively charged regions can
exist at about the same height in the cloud.
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 15:52 (GMT)
asrin - also a feature of thunder snow is that the falling snow intensifies the lightning flash and muffles the thunder so it cn be inaudible beyond two miles. So the slits could be due to them observing a fantastic but silent light show...
Nigel Evans 15-01-2017 15:46 (GMT)
asrin - well i'm not a meteorological expert but the internet tells me that lightning is due to the build up of voltage due to collisions of ice particles within a cloud and the typical cause of this is hot moist air rising vertically in a thunderstorm. This means that lightning is very rare at the poles and most frequent in the tropics.
But it would be my strong guess that the mixing of ice (and snow?) particles can also have other causes. Just because these causes are rare doesn't make them impossible. E.g. freak wind circulation, downward flow of the jet stream, anomalous electrical ground conditions repelling the air vertically (the region clearly exhibits freak frequency of ball lightning and strong magnetic anomalies).

N.B. my "dpi - lightning theory" can be satisfied by either conventional lightning or ball lightning or a combination of both. Also don't forget that our physics cannot explain ball lightning at all, and there maybe unknown causes of conventional lightning waiting to be found. Dark lightning has only been recently discovered...

I'm currently reading "Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secrets" which i can recommend. For me it's a no brainer that the cedar tree and ravine deaths can be most easily explained by electrical discharge at the cedar and an explosion in the ravine. This gives you - burnt hair, burnt clothing, massive leg burn, scattered fragments of burnt clothing, shockwave injuries, serious skull trauma without tissue damage (chunks of flying ice softening in the heat flash and landing on head in snow), heavy bruising, four bodies found in a tight group 6-10 metres from their den.

Everything i read is a fit, except for perhaps the radiation. This would be explained as a red herring, that the contamination was picked up from one of the disused mines that they explored or naturally occurring on the ground. Strontum, trituim etc.

A reminder of a notable fact from the book. SZ was found still holding a diary in one hand and a pencil in the other (this strongly suggests that he didn't travel in the stream later and that the curious clumping was there at the fatal event). Lying there with the extreme pain of a flail chest he was still trying to leave a record of the event for people to find. A professional agent to the very end?
Asrın Sırrı 15-01-2017 06:52 (GMT)
@NigelEvans
I read in a forum, there are those who say that there can not be a lightning event.


The temperature was -30C (-22F), which is much too cold to allow for any generation of atmospheric lightning. Not sure what happen there, but lightning would have been simply impossible. Yes, lightning can happen during some snowstorms, but in these cases the temperatures are much warmer and near the freezing mark (0C, 32F). This makes a huge difference since convection of ice particles that freeze and melt during the convection cycle is critical for generating the charge.
just_me 14-01-2017 16:41 (GMT)
Obviously they were inside tent when heard something that made them so scared and runaway in panic.

Well, why don't someone put some microphone on that location and record for 1 full year or more ... maybe got something to hear
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 19:15 (GMT)
asrin - i've thought of an extra refinement to the theory.

In the ravine after the explosion. The strike creates a lot of water vapour as this powerful bolt - 50,000C, 1 million amps, earths down the stream this hot vapour rises until it refreezes. Also the explosion sends a lot of nearby snow (ground and trees) into the air with the wind blowing a lot of it into the ravine, plus snow on the side of ravine slides down.
So four people are buried in snow with three survivors. ID now has a dilemma. RS is clearly injured and needs care. But he doesn't know if the buried four are dead or alive. So as the leader of the group he decides that ZK should accompany RS back to the tent whilst he stays in the ravine hoping for signs of life. It will be part of his training to know that buried under snow you can breathe for approx 30 minutes before the snow near your mouth reaches a concentration of CO2 that kills you. So he sends them back and waits perhaps listening or attempting to dig with his hands. So ZK helps RS back to the tent but the path is uphill in deep snow and very tough. Along the way RS collapses. Being a girl she can't lift or drag him and she is getting weak from cold and the explosion. So she decides to leave him there and if she can get to the tent she could bring warm clothing down to help him. But she succumbs to the cold and conditions (high winds?) 200 metres further uphill. Meanwhile ID decides to abandon his search as he is getting very cold. It's a feature of hypothermia that one of the first stages is mental confusion. So perhaps as good leader he stays too long. Anyway he doesn't get far before the hypothermia overtakes him and he is found displaying classic signs of death by hypothermia, paradoxical undressing and a litre of urine.

May they rest in peace.

Asrın Sırrı 12-01-2017 17:41 (GMT)
I think it is strange that they want to take each other's clothes even after the lightning falls on them.
They would probably be hot, they would get warm, they would be cooked, why they took each other's clothes and put on themselves ...
Ludymilla's tongue broke off from the lightning bolt.
You also have the opportunity to make an animation of this theory, thanksgiving, thanks @Nigel Evans.
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 17:03 (GMT)
asrin - i think the best explanation for leaving the tent is ball lightning, it would seem that there were two people outside well dressed for the cold and seven people inside the tent and there are at least seven slits at standing height in the tent. So all the people in the tent cut an individual slit to observe something. This fact combined with the hot spot strongly favours ball lightning and not a lightning strike. Either the proximty of the BL caused them to flee the tent or a lightning strike hit the bamboo tent pole or both. But the event has to prevent them from returning to collect boots and clothing so BL hovering over the hot spot fits best.

The the two yuris are killed by a weak lightning strike like this - http://www.walterreeves.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/lightning-3.jpg only in this case the tree trunk is covered in snow and the strike travels outside the bark only damaging the branches. The 2 yuri's are huddled together by the fire, the strike enters YD's head on the right side burning his hair and causing profuse bleeding to the ears, nose and lips. The current crosses over to YK and exits the left leg resulting in a massive edema (31cm).

Then all seven realise that the fire under a tree is unwise and they retreat to the ravine probably on the advice of SZ as this was a WW2 technique to survive the extreme cold. However they haven't realised that if lightning is a threat then the water in the stream is very dangerous as it provides the best earth for more lightning strikes. The strike that kills the four outright is much more powerful than the first one, like this - http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2011/8/22/this-is-what-it-looks-like-when-lightning-strikes.html n.b. that strike blew a hole three foot deep to find the earth provided by the irrigation line...
This strike doesn't hit any individual but results in a powerful explosion as it instantly vapourises snow, ice, mud etc, paticularly so in the confines of the ravine which amplifies the shockwave. Note in that image that the hole is small relative to the area of grass that is killed. So it fits that most of the "ravine 7" got a good dose of heat changing the colour of their skin as they were blown through the air. Four died and three survived but with injuries and shock.
They pick themselves up and decide to return to the tent. But the explosion has left them substantially weakened and disorientated and they do not make the logical decision to remove shoes and clothing from the deceased. This is possibly due the to heat melting a large area of snow up the sides of the ravine which slides down and covers all of them causing the three still alive to scramble out. Whatever this proves fatal as they return for ZK and ID, RS dies anyway collapsing whilst still warm.

I've no plans to make an animation. The text is sufficient for me.
Asrın Sırrı 12-01-2017 16:08 (GMT)
So the dpi event was due to lightning.
Lightning strikes in the tent, the mountaineers were troubled, somehow they decided to go to the woods, after which a strong lightning bolt killed them, and some died of hypothermia. is it true ? @ Nige Evans

@Nigel, can you make an animation video of this theory? Thank you.
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 15:27 (GMT)
asrin - no to the weapon theory, the Soviets wouldn't have invested that much effort in investigating the dpi if they already knew the cause.

As far as i know all the evidence can be explained by a combination of ball lightning (frequent occurence in that area - 2 events witnessed within 2 months of the dpi) and lightning strkes (thundersnow can produce the most powerful type - positive polarity).
Asrın Sırrı 12-01-2017 15:03 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans : I think lightning is a natural lightning,
Or did the Russians make with Tesla's lightning weapon?
I hope you understand? The language problem is seriously bad! (:
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 12:40 (GMT)
Asrin - my theory is that ZK, RS and ID were with the ravine 4 when they were killed but further away from the blast.
ZK's official cause of death is - "hypothermia due to violent accident".
RS - i suggest that he collapsed from shock and his head injury.
ID - clearly died of hypothermia.

Regarding the ravine 4 :-
LD and SZ - flail chests due to shockwave from explosion.
AK - the explosion threw him backwards and he landed on his head, resulting in headwound and a deformed neck.
NTB - the blast threw a projectile that hit him in the head.
Nigel Evans 12-01-2017 12:05 (GMT)
Asrin - I think most people would agree that the pathologist's report isn't rigourous enough (LD's tongue). As far as i know the injuries of YD and YK are consistent with them being electrocuted whilst sitting side by side the lightning entering YD's head and exiting via YK's left leg and foot.

The damage to the cedar tree supports the lightning theory. N.B. if the snowstorm was as photographed when they setup camp then they would have no reason to climb the tree as the visibilty would be very limited and they couldn't see the tent anyway.

From this website :-
the soft tissues of both hands and fingers tips are especially dark purple; all fingers and toes are severelly frostbitten. If Yuri Doroshenko would have survived, he would have required an amputation of all his toes and fingers.
Asrın Sırrı 11-01-2017 22:15 (GMT)
Hi.
@Nigel Evans : Do autopsy doctors not understand lightning strike?
Did you feel a lightning strike, Nigel?
Please ask to learn.

Maybe it's irrelevant, but I'm looking at it, zinaida is well dressed, but how does she get hypothermia and die? The subject still has not reached the solution and it has been about 60 years ...

There is also a detailed video on the scene in this video account, perfect.

The person who shoots the video is walking with the socks and there is no problem ...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkU_SsNR7iV2VzEaVSu3ccQ
Nigel Evans 11-01-2017 13:37 (GMT)
Thunder snow and positive lightning :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundersnow "Finally, there is a greater likelihood that thundersnow lightning will have a positive polarity which has greater destructive potential than negatively charged (typical) lightning"

http://wxbrad.com/positive-lightning-why-its-so-dangerous/ "While only 10% of lightning strikes victims die from being hit, most are hit by negative strikes. The percentage of positive strike fatalities is much higher."
Nigel Evans 09-01-2017 18:33 (GMT)
Asrin - assuming you meant "why did the mountaineers leave the tent?".

Anyone of the three could have spooked them but the cause has to continue to spook them to prevent them from returning afterwards.

So i guess that reduces the probability of a lightning strike in favour of st elmos fire or ball lightning. The 4metre hot spot in front of the tent favours ball lightning imo.

Then the two Yuris are killed by a normal lightning strike.

With the ravine 4 it's not possible to determine whether it's BL or a lightning strike. But either cause creates deaths by an explosion not electrocution. Apparently a LS can generate temperatures 5 times hotter than the surface of the sun. So if that hit the stream in the ravine the water would instantly vapourise creating quite a bang..

Asrın Sırrı 09-01-2017 17:31 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans

The result is lightning strike?
If you cause a lightning strike, will you explain it, why did the tent leave the mountaineers?
Can you give a detailed explanation @ Nigel, Please? Thank's.
Nigel Evans 09-01-2017 12:46 (GMT)
I've spent a little time researching how lightning strikes affect trees - http://www.cceoneida.com/home-and-garden/factsheets/view/76/lightning-injury-to-trees#.WHOBKtQwDaw Tall conifers near to flowing water would seem to be high risk!

Also the strike can have very different effects depending on whether the current travels outside the tree or within it. Wrt to the dpi it would be highly likely that the branches would be snow covered and the the strike would jump from branch to branch resulting in damaged branches but an intact trunk.
It fits that the fire would assist the strike giving off a stream of ionised particles. Then some or all of the discharge would jump from the tree and pass through the people sitting by the fire resulting in electrocution injuries (burns and pulmonary edema).

Being an intelligent group with scientific backgrounds they would realise with hindsight that the tree and the fire were a bad idea and retreat to the ravine but sadly there was another similar event but this time primarily explosive.

So a good explanation for all of the facts would be that the area exhibits static electricity anomalies that combined with the snowstorm encouraged - st elmo's fire/lightning strikes/ball lightning and a combination of these resulted in the dpi.
Nigel Evans 09-01-2017 11:21 (GMT)
Mr Woo - they didn't use the heater that night, so no case for CO.

asrin - excellent article, which closely follows my thinking (and that of Ivanov and the mansi). Provides a good explanation for all the facts.
Asrın Sırrı 09-01-2017 04:34 (GMT)
Another theory ;

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=271057
Mr. Woo 08-01-2017 11:48 (GMT)
Here is another theory. I will not overexplain. Carbon Monoxide poisioning. At least enough poisoning to cause confusion, hallucination, and possible violence. It would explain sudden fleeing from the tent, signs of trauma to the bodies, discolouration of skin, etc. As the autopsies were inconsistent and challenged by the time, weather, and the elements, it could mean that Soviet provincial science was not entirely up to snuff.
Asrın Sırrı 08-01-2017 03:16 (GMT)
Hello to everyone.
A researcher named Keith McCloskey writes on a website but I do not fully understand it.

Best scenario: -
The fact that they closed access for a few years is revealing.
Why,- because of radiation.
The incident happened elsewhere - somewhere on their proper route. That area had high radiation, due to military weapon / UFO.
So they moved the bodies somewhere away from the actual event to confuse things, as well as to protect any search people from high radiation? The pilot observed the tent with bodies, while the soldiers were relocating the group to the radiation free area.
Because of the radiation left on bodies/clothes of group, Lev Ivanov was informed to carry a radiation detector.
The fact there is a (damaged) pole at the tent also could be a mistake by the soldiers, or whoever was moving things around. Alternatively it could have been intentionally left by a soldier who was disgusted at what they were doing & who wished to leave a clue as to the lack of authenticity of the scene.
If it hadn't been for Yuri Yakimov revealing the light set events, I would have went with military. But that's too much of a coincidence to happen in this area also. It could be the Mansi reference to mountain has more meaning than we think, going back ages, it could be a sort of 'dimensional' gateway or at least an area where there is more than usual UFO activity. There seem to be certain areas where they are more prevalent. UNQUOTE
I thought about the noise made by explosions but the students who reported the lights on the Chistop Massif were 30 miles away and the wind was blowing away from them carrying the sound. The Mansi settlement at Ushma is closer but still several miles and again the wind is an issue. I also gain the impression that the Mansi were willing to help out but didn’t want to get drawn into any contentious issues. Especially as nine people were dead and the authorities may have been looking to point the finger at someone.
Nigel Evans 05-01-2017 19:08 (GMT)
Hi Asrin

Yes i'll add my comments to the other page.

It's no problem for me if google translate makes communication clumsy. Good ideas are not limited to people who can write in English Happy.

2. the fire is estimated to have burnt for 1.5 hours through 8 cm logs. It seems it was a good campfire. Not an ineffective one as claimed in the youtube video.
5. two members of the group were outside keeping watch. If so it couldn't have been that cold.

But we will have to agree to disagree on the main point of this theory that they would elect to leave food, equipment and clothing (wet clothing is much preferable to less clothing in -20C), and especially their boots, just to go and light a fire in a more sheltered place.
The main question with the dpi mystery is what made them leave everything behind?
Asrın Sırrı 05-01-2017 17:39 (GMT)
Hello, everybody.
I am doing this article with google translation help.
@Nigel Evans You can write your comments on the person who prepared the video (Goruna X) as a comment.
If you have animated dyatlov pass videos, would you like to link here?
I want to look at all of them.

@Nigel Evans: I want to answer your questions.

1) I think after setting the tent, they realized that there was no firewood in the tent and they walked to the forest together, 4 people went to the forest before, they lost their direction and they were wounded.
Others tried to warm up by the fire at the entrance to the forest. The cold influenced the mountaineers' thoughts negatively.

2) I could not understand what you said, sorry. (Google translate inefficiency)

3) I think it was going to go back to the tent by collecting dry wood, and they do not take their clothes to their side and not to be burdened.
But it started to show no effect on the road.

4) This is your opinion, socks can be very strong, wool socks.
As a result they may have made an incorrect decision.

5) I could not understand what you said, sorry. (Google translate inefficiency)

6) The fractures were probably after river side injuries.

As a result, I think this theory tells a big part of the story, but maybe not the whole story.
I write the conversations with google translate, sorry.
Nigel Evans 05-01-2017 11:52 (GMT)
Asrim Sirri - thanks, that's a new theory i haven't come across before.

Thoughts :-
1. if it was an orderly retreat from the tent due to cold and wet then why didn't they take their three axes and food and some alcohol Happy?
2. the fire was relatively successful burning branches upto 8cm thick (estimated at 1.5 hours duration).
3. if the clothing was too wet to wear why not take it with them to dry by the fire?
4. i find it impossible to believe that they prefered walking in socks in say -20C instead of putting their wet boots on. These are intelligent people with alpine training.
5. the indications are that two members of the group were outside keeping watch. If so it couldn't have been that cold.
6. the pathologist is very specific about the cause of the fractures - high energy trauma "like from a car accident or the shockwave from a bomb". No broken limbs, collar bones etc but flail chests where the rib cage has been partly snapped vertically three times? I don't see how a collapsed snow cave could create this profile of injuries.
S.J.M. 05-01-2017 08:15 (GMT)
Better translation ;-) .......

I turn just following theory to the Dyatlov to discusion:

The disaster happened in two parts, without any foreign influence:

The first part was a drug experiment of the five members (Rustem Slobodin, Yuri Doroshenko, Yuri Krivonischenko, Igor Dyatlov and Zinaida Kolmogorova) at the edge of the forest under the pine tree.
Possibly, with the help of psychedelic substances, a "shamanistic" experience at the campfire would be made.
This was either done with the help of regional mushrooms or LSD-derivatives, which may have been brought along, as well. (I do not know whether gastric contents or blood were examined 1959 ?!)
In both cases there was probably a certain contamination and/or overdosing in the game,
Which, in addition to the horrortrip, also leads to an accelerated cooling (by a centralization shock, possibly in combination with the "paradoxical undressing"Winking, and would, by the way, explain the orbicular discolouration of the skin of the victims of death, namely by icterus in liver failure.
In addition, in this type trip often flight-fantasies occur, which would clarify the climbing of the tree.
I also can not exclude a conscious undressing to intensify the "natural experience".
Also not untypical would be the search for the little melting creek for the purpose of "purification" or thirst quenching or the desire to neutralize in case of poisoning-phenomena.

Part two: When the first group suddenly realized that there was something extraordinary going on the way, Dyatlov, Kolmogorova and Slobodin wanted to reach the (possibly nothing anticipating or sleeping) rest of the group (Lyudmila Dubinina, Alexander Kolevatov, Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolles and Semyon Zolotaryov).

These, who were taken aback by the sleep very surprised and panicked, as someone was screaming or was busy at the entrance of the tent (possibly blocked by snow drift too),
now fled down to the edge of the forest by slitting the side tent, where they found the other members of the "drug group" were probably in a corresponding condition.

This led either to further panic-like flight or uncontrolled searches for some aid in the direction of forest natures, downhill.
They crashed into the snowy canyon with corresponding crash injuries such as fractures and tongue bites.
Eyes by two members in my opinion were lost postmortal by animals or putrescence.(Zolotaryov and Dubinina were found over 2 months after accident !)

Whether the drug experiment was planned from the beginning, or even "sponsored" by some circles or even commanded, or simply developed on a whim, remains speculative of course.
The only surviving member, the tour-departed Yuri Judin has probably never said (?).

The framework conditions were, in my opinion, fit in any case;
9 young adventurous, experience-seeking students at a time of emerging "mind-expending" substances in a solitary, mystical area..........

S.J.M.
AsrinSirri 04-01-2017 23:08 (GMT)
To me this seems to be the most simple and logical explanation to the mystery.

Best Theory...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbIqsK8KG-E
Nigel Evans 03-01-2017 15:42 (GMT)
SJM - you should read Svetlana Oss's book "Don't go there", she has a murder theory that involves hallucinogenic substances.
N.B. the pathologist ruled out falling as a cause of the fractures, and as the photos show these serious injuries have no surface tissue damage. An explosion is the best explanation.
S.J.M. 03-01-2017 14:23 (GMT)
psychedelic drugs, what else ?
bad experiment.
leslie 03-01-2017 09:53 (GMT)
I am very curious about the youtube videos that expert posted, when hikers returned to the site of the tent amd the ravine. Would anyone be willing to offer a translation, at least of the highlights? what is the significance of the flags? at what point in the video are they in the ravine, and do they show the cedar tree in any of the videos? the den? hoping someone can shed light on this.
peter 01-01-2017 09:53 (GMT)
I think ti got it right back on 17-5-2016. It was not an avalanche but fear of an avalanche coupled with snow drifts that forced them to exit the tent.

I am not sure but the thought of 9 or 10 people being covered with tons of snow in a collapsed tent could be a compelling reason to exit immediately
Nigel Evans 24-12-2016 13:18 (GMT)
Bird - the tent is described as 2, 4 men tents sown together.
You make a good point regarding the size of the tent but my guess is that :-
a. modern materials permit much more tent room than in 1959, so the space was limited to the weight.
b. the siberian winter nights are long and would allow enough time for two groups to rotate usage. It would have been wise to keep a watch for wild animals (wolves) so i could imagine that they have at least two men outside overnight probably with a fire. Indeed the footsteps in the snow suggest that was the case when they fled the tent (but no fire).

I think they were on the open ground beyond the trees to gain height for the following day. From memory their plan was to execute a three day circular hike returning to the base camp where they had left the food for the return journey. So the purpose of the camp that night was to achieve the altitude in order to make good distance the following day.
Bird 24-12-2016 12:16 (GMT)
Hello all. I'm from Central Europe and am interested in palaeontology, archeology, paleontology and unexplained mysteries. Thanks also to the creators behind this perfect site where absolutely everything about the expedition, including photographs. I also thought long on this mystery, until I saw the direction of detail where this man pulls. I would like to describe their observations as the other thing, and I deal with enough forensically to the smallest detail. It is unnecessary to elaborate on his theories here and entertain the detalily, because the main thing was before my eyes and not see it at first, then? That must see for anyone that 9 people (10 people) in the tent 4M X 1.8M nobody can come in during the entire journey expedition. Stan odhahuji to max. 3 persons and if we add backpacks and stuff, so they fit into the tent, perhaps none. Also, this way I miss the photographs. Where to sleep? Hm? Until resolved the question of how the tent 4 x 1.8 meters next to 9 people with backpacks, even things that were allegedly found in a tent, we can continue.

So the main question for me remains the size of the tent.

Nowhere in the photos is not seeing them spend the night and eating. Supposedly, they were experienced mountaineers. If I was a dress code for the disco (Dubinina) so I froze way. At least 10 days' journey in the mountains of Siberia, have too small backpacks. Most of the contents of a sleeping bag and mat and spare stuff. Where is the food for 10 people for 10 days? Tube tent to me is exhausting moisture, as would the tent is frozen and probably even suffocated. I have many theories, but one of radioactivity into contact just come and Kovalov employee was allegedly nuclear research. I believed in a version of infrasound, but it unfortunately falls, because they do not know how 9 people with backpacks, fits into the tent 4x1,8 meters. It is impossible. 6x4 meters ideal for 9 (10) persons.

So there is a version with transfer of radioactive material in the tent and never slept, because there will not fit. So where to sleep? How much did the dishes? Experienced mountaineer knows the counting and would have stayed down in the woods, or went behind the ridge. Pitch a tent there on top is illogical. The tent is obviously old and patched and most importantly is installed between the trees. Up there he fell on them. They would have to build a wall of snow and skis anchor the tent. Maybe the tent fell on them at night in a mad wind, but it applies to someone explain to me and understand that I never found that nobody cares how could fit 10 people into the tent 4 x 1.8 meters and with backpacks,.

Maybe we can not understand, because it never happened. Please views on the size of the tent vs 10 people.

I would also like to add: Bigfoot does not exist. He yeti wearing dark pants, a light jacket and dark gloves? (This is seen in the photo) Does your neck? Of course, it is a member of the expedition and a hooded and therefore has no neck. If the text is found in the tent that Bigfoot exists, it could be evidence of fraud or message to someone that their actions came out to surrender. Further, I also do not understand how they can film in cameras in 1959, survive in Siberia in the cold under the snow and to be quite ok.

The main question remains: how to fit 10 people into the tent and backpacks, with pipe measuring 4 x 1.8 m. This also applies to the previous stations down in forests. It's good to see the size and age of the tent and the people around him. Such tents would need 3 and not 1

Why someone is in deep winter on Siberian mountain in the middle of winter? Why not go in the summer when they were tourists? Sea issues, but without explaining how they went into the tent, not worth continuing. In addition to the mountain appoint Mountain of the Dead just for fun. It has a reason. Maybe there Mansové bury the dead, and they disrupted their cemeteries. That mark on the tree clearly indicates that it is their territory. Maybe they did, or shaman actually a story with Yetti invented to make people afraid to go there. Whole Mansovy understand. They want to have peace.
Nigel Evans 21-12-2016 17:31 (GMT)
luk- the stove was found dismantled, it wasn't used that evening.
Patrick 21-12-2016 04:52 (GMT)
The tent, as shown, is in the wrong spot. It should be shown over the next ridge to the north; which means the valley where the bodies were found is also over the ridge to the northwest.
Patrick 21-12-2016 04:47 (GMT)
The tent in you map should be over the ridge to the north of where it is currently shown.
luk 20-12-2016 22:09 (GMT)
Hello, what about the stove theory? I mean that the stove either exploded or the smoke was suffocating them
Nigel Evans 17-12-2016 12:38 (GMT)
someguy - hi

1. "Snowmen exist" - probably part of the folkore that springs up. E.g. the mansi give a hill the name "Dead Mountain" meaning there's nothing up there to hunt and this get converted into "Mountain of the Dead".

2. Parachute mines - this could explain a lot of the facts but evidence would be left (parachutes?) and Ivanov would not have given an interview later in life were he admitted his belief that it was the fireballs and facts directly supporting this were removed from the report.

3. Radiation - in the dim light of the morgue the staff reported that parts of the clothing had a purple glow. One theory is that they had visited abandoned mines on the trip and contaminated their clothing there. However that would presumably have resulted in alpha radiation not the beta that was found. Also a water test suggested that the original contamination could have been much higher.

4. Knives - the knive used to exit the tent and collect firewood was never found. They left hand axes in the tent.

5. Den - they didn't dig it. They just arranged branches in the floor of the ravine to shelter from the wind. There are indications of very high winds.

6. Don't think the body is relevant to the dpi.

7. There was another hiking group in the area a week later that witnessed "a light in the sky". Igor Dyatlov was training to be an alpine master and the leading the hike would raise his ranking. So not so unusual perhaps, permission had to be sought for the trip and a one member was refused and SZ substituted for him.
someguy 16-12-2016 18:10 (GMT)
6 hours reading about this mystery - quite intriguing! Thanks for the site.

I visited a few sites to try and get a view from all angles and theories. This site is nice since you can see the photos and medical information, plus the diary excepts is interesting.

1. "Snowmen exist" is mentioned elsewhere on the Internet but is not found in the English translation of the diary on this site. Several articles include the quote but the translation on this site makes me think this quote is false/fake. There is nothing in the diary translation that would hint at "snowmen exist" either. Could the author of the site confirm this on the diary page for future visitors?

2. Wikipedia (not a useful source, I know) has an interesting theory of parachute mines but this site doesn't mention it. Unfortunately there is no source cited on wikipedia for the parachute mine theory, but it is interesting none the less. It is mentioned that there was metal debris around the tent but nothing specific as to what kind of metal (size, shape) and if the metal could've belong to the hikers.

3. Speculation: The radiation on the shirt/pants seems like they were trying to use the lamp (as noted elsewhere the lamp had radiation elements within it) to keep themselves warm. The radiation reports indicate lower shirt/wrist / upper pants/waist, so perhaps the lamp was being kept near the waist or cuddled around?

4. I was curious as to the amount of cut marks in the tent photos. It looks as if multiple people were trying to cut the side of the tent. Was there any evidence found indicating what cutting tools were used? I believe it was said one person had a knife on their belt/carabiner. Were any of the cutting tools found outside of the tent or not on a person (like the flashlight)?

5. Was there any indication of tools used to dig out the "den"? Did they dig it out with their hands?

6. There was a report released by RT in January 2016 about a new body being discovered near the pass. After some research, it may be a hermit / homeless person that lived in a nearby town, however there is little information about him. It would be interesting to know when he died (if it was recent or closer to the death of the hikers) and why he was in that area to begin with.

7. Something that is curious to me is if this was a typical hike for people in the area? How many hikers in that era would've made the hike to the mountain each year? This information could give a "sample size" to show how many people hike in that location (ie. many = this incident is unique; few = this incident is stranger), or another sample is has this happened elsewhere in the world (ie. people suffering similar deaths while hiking in the winter). At least such data would give a reference point to better evaluate how strange this event was (typical or not).
RK 14-12-2016 07:03 (GMT)
An additional thing I have to say: this page is very great! Thank you for the work and the amount of useful and clear informations!
RK 13-12-2016 15:28 (GMT)
Sorry, but I find it is not to believe how many strange ideas should be responsible for this incident.
However, I was a soldier, have medical experiences and educations in technology and radiology. I read many about this case and like everybody seem this case almost to solve, but nevertheless does not fit. Always close, but then there is another argument. Traces, radiology, injuries, some behavior of the members is right, some not. Which investigations are right? Which doubtful?
When somebody sees any lights in the sky and hear about radiology in combination with a strange incident we have immediately extraterrestrial, military or strange nature items in our heads. But in almost every strange case which has solved it was…surprise…the people for themselves.
The investigations are insufficient. Some examples. Radiology on clothes at this time is not unusual. In this time were some x-ray exams made with clothes. Some clothes were produced with radiology-included colors. The investigation of the traces is absolutely unbelievable. What was the real cause of death of the members especially the ravine group. Three of them had the most injuries (pressure-injuries) and they were under 4 meters of snow? They were lying in a creek month of melting snow-waters. The branches of the cedar were cut in the direction of the tent. If I want climb on a tree to look in a direction I cut the branches on the other side (example: slobodin’s picture frame nr.5). I want escape from a tent and nobody try to pull the buttoned entrance, everybody search first for the knife to destroy the only habitation that would save my life (and if just later)? And why this extrem big hole? In a case of emergency with 7 or 9 people the most would use the hole of the precursor. It would be faster. And then I go without rush to the woods? The cuts in eye-level are in the escape-direction? I would flee off the danger.
What is right what is wrong?
The first question I have: If I were in a tent with 7 or 9 people, what have to happened to rip the tent in this big size of one side?
Right, it could be an emergency incident. Maybe a defective oven. Maybe a threat from outside.
The next question should to be: was the tent already collapsed and is this maybe the reason for the big hole? In a collapsed tent it is hard to find the exit, it is dark, I am afraid, there is a threat inside or outside…a good reason for all members to destroy the tent in the length. But the cuts are straight from to bottom, sign for a not collapsed tent.
Several members cut a intact tent at the same time in one direction and all stroll without rush in the forest the most without sufficient clothes. Why? There are only two reasons:
The danger is absolute directly or there were forced.
And here the hamster begins to hobble:
2 theories, 2 ways:

Way one:
If the danger is directly why they went without rush to the woods?
Is the danger only in the range of the tent and they could not went back?
Which kind of danger could that be?


Way two:
If there were forced why did they destroy the tent?
Were they forced to destroy the tent too?
And why did they destroy it from the inside?
Was the danger from the inside?
Was the danger a member of the group or another person?

If I combine the Theories:
Was the threat a member of the group or another person, forced them to destroy the tent or did his himself and hound the others away or in the direction of the forest? Maybe in rage and regardless the lack of clothes?

Is this a start of a fight first for clothes then for survive?

I think it is important to find out what is happened in the tent. At the photos we see a good mood and atmosphere until the last day. The last day the weather was badly and they had to put up the tent in deep snow and a slope. Maybe the atmosphere had turned.

If I leave out all the doubtful results of the investigations I see 9 young people, 7 male, 2 female, well trained for this trip, but in some faces not complete seriousness. I see a lot of fun. I see a lot of young power. I see many injuries of fight with hands. I believe to see an incredible tragedy caused of emotions of young people.
Nigel Evans 11-12-2016 15:01 (GMT)
Expert - sorry i don't understand the first line.

I don't think you've properly understood what the pathologist is saying. The strength and transient nature of the force rules out many other causes. The easiest explanation is barotrauma from an explosion. LD's rib cage was cracked twice in the upper right hand side but not cracked in the lower half at all. Do you understand what sort of force is strong enough to start cracking the ribs twice but not for long enough to reach the lower half? It was strong, local and highly transient. You can't reproduce this with a rifle butt or stamping etc etc. Plus there was no tissue damage anyway.

Here's your link Happy
http://dyatlov-pass.com/theories Scroll down to UFO.
Expert 11-12-2016 14:19 (GMT)
I contradict you repeatedly on timelapse of your opinion . You couldn't have answered properly about the question. (the question point of me is that the incident didnot happened by natural force )

but you still keep insisting

the pathologist was comparing only the power to car crash or bomb but which did not mean they died of car crash or bomb

and Ivanov did not say the ball was ball lightening phenomenon. give me link

Nigel Evans 11-12-2016 12:57 (GMT)
Robs - i thnk i've discussed the injuries at length to justify the BL theory?

To repeat my case :-

The pathologist stated that the flail chests required very specific forces such as in a car accident or (and this is the crucial point) "like from the shockwave of a bomb". N.B. he ruled out falling. So this and the unusual number of dead birds points strongly at an explosion.

Then you have eye witness reports a week later of a light in the sky followed by two explosions.

Other evidence is burnt tree tops, burnt people, local beliefs, radioactivity, skin colour possibly due to radiation.

All of this fits with historical accounts of ball lightning wth the exception of radiation.

So it's no brainer really. That's why Ivanov had to choose it.
Robs 11-12-2016 10:58 (GMT)
Yes I get that Nigel but how do you explain the injuries. Plus the photo of the scene before and after shows no evidence of an avalanche or massive high winds etc as the tent and surroundings (like the ski still upright) remains untouched
Nigel Evans 11-12-2016 10:50 (GMT)
Expert/Robs - I think we can remove alien contact as a theory for the DPI. The fact that they fled the tent but built a fire nearby whilst still unable to return to the tent is a strong tool for removing possible causes. Either they were prisoners or it was a natural force that they had no reason to fear 1500m away. Imo the prisoner theory doesn't work. Force them to leave the tent undressed but let them build a fire and a den? Much better is that they had to flee the tent from a threat and were waiting to return from a location they believed to be safe. But they misjudged the threat and it's potential to kill.
Expert 11-12-2016 09:11 (GMT)
Nigel
Expert 11-12-2016 09:09 (GMT)
Neigel /
Even the gap between australopitecus and modern human is calculated only about 3 millions years . (argon date)
the number is a little in the universe. There are tremendous amount of star systems billions ahead of ours ..

but I agree with your opinion.
when we solve unexplained phenomenon
the first is to consider the result from inner space
the last is to consider the result from outer space
that is right way to solve it.

Robs 10-12-2016 16:16 (GMT)
I agree with Nigel on the UFO theory. There is no proof and you can blame UFOs for any mystery in history.
Nigel Evans 10-12-2016 14:42 (GMT)
Expert - i've got a degree in physics and i'm sure that if aliens are visiting us they will view our science like we look at our stone age.
However my problem with reports of alien contact is the lack of evidence unless the conspiracy theories are to be believed (global government cover-up).
Hence I favour natural phenomena that science cannot as yet explain, together with hallucination, the latter possibly a result of the former...
Expert 10-12-2016 12:26 (GMT)
Apart from what beings they are .. every visitors (from no this planet) must overwhelm human science . because human physics for universe travelling is limited in relative theory-Einstein
Expert 09-12-2016 22:43 (GMT)
There are many witnesses relative to aliens. but,those tend to be discounted by no scientific evidence.
(though it have been known radioactive was sometimes detected around those sites where aliens were reported)
Expert 09-12-2016 22:27 (GMT)
Their ribs broken or body discovered under 4M snow .. would be explained by the assumption.
Expert 09-12-2016 22:16 (GMT)
Dubin and Zolota could be thrown out of craft after abducting
Expert 09-12-2016 20:02 (GMT)
I know what peoples think when I mention about aliens. but I am not a believer in fairy and i am not a fan of StarWars . I just need to say the possibility of alien attack could be high in this incident.
if we exclude it , it is hard to explain in right logic

Expert 09-12-2016 10:31 (GMT)
drunk and sleepy.
Expert 09-12-2016 10:28 (GMT)
i wanna write .. but now , i am drunk haha . so next
Expert 09-12-2016 10:22 (GMT)
becos they were so cold to death. go into -25 with slight wear . then you can say.
Nigel Evans 08-12-2016 17:21 (GMT)
Expert - ok so they flee the tent to escape an alien craft but then they light a camp fire?
Expert 07-12-2016 15:45 (GMT)
Next ...................
Expert 07-12-2016 15:43 (GMT)
I know some case about alien craft. even there are some cases about sky balls in our country
Expert 07-12-2016 15:40 (GMT)
I am thinking the sky ball was alien craft.
Expert 07-12-2016 15:39 (GMT)
He thought earlier sky ball was clearly relative to the incident ......
and said close one '' the sky ball would be spaceship or natural phenomenon or new weapon . ''
Expert 07-12-2016 15:25 (GMT)
He=Ivanov
Expert 07-12-2016 15:23 (GMT)
I read there was a interview of him in 1990's
he would know what happened then. about mystery of the incident.
1960 and 1990 are very different age on science.
He could think somethings more than then..
Expert 07-12-2016 15:17 (GMT)
6 hikers seemingly died of hypothermia. but that was not all. they died after chemical attack. they couldn't feel cold maybe.. by chemical anesthesia .
I am thinking now.. whether the balls are artificial force or natural force.

It have been know Ivanov maybe could have some photos that weren't announced on public
Expert 07-12-2016 14:21 (GMT)
There were more photos about sky balls . it looks like nothings . but some hikers took it repeatedly
(Zolotarev, probably, took 19 shots. The objects seemed to move in the direction of the Pass because the images get bigger. )
Expert 07-12-2016 14:09 (GMT)
The chemical cause turned their hair, skin
Expert 07-12-2016 14:05 (GMT)
See 2 corpse under cedar or Slobodin corpse.
It looks like they were sleeping at summer night.

they might die of hypothermia after anesthetized or stunned.


(1) All 9 hikers were attacked by something .
( though specially fatal attack was for Ravine peoples )

(2)6 peoples except for 3 peoples were known to die of hypothermia. but that was just result of physical looks in 1959 medical.


I think there were chemical attack by something.
Nigel Evans 06-12-2016 21:34 (GMT)
Purplehorn because it doesn't fit with the facts. That's why the police investigation didn't go for it.
Robs 06-12-2016 09:06 (GMT)
There were no boot prints of the 9 around the tent. So they either setup the tent in bare foot or the prints were covered. So if the prints were covered then prints of hijackers could be covered?
And yes it could have been murder from within the group but no one survived ... why?
Expert 06-12-2016 06:15 (GMT)
PurpleHorn / if so, how to be explained ''9 mansi killed in past time'' or ''the cause of 9hikers's gray hair, dark orange skin'' or ..........
I think it is unlikely




Robs / think no footprints of invader - that would be
why official investigator Ivanov turn his idea from murder(people) to hovering balls .
PurpleHorn 06-12-2016 00:24 (GMT)
Why do so many leave out the simplest idea that there was conflict within the group?
Robs 05-12-2016 17:48 (GMT)
Why do they need aircraft why couldn't they walk? Something made them leave the tent with little or no clothing knowing they would die soon. 4 were killed in the ravine. 2 died never trying to get back to the tent. 3 died trying to get back to tent. I can see no other reason than being hijacked internally or externally
Expert 05-12-2016 16:01 (GMT)
I must consider again. . . . to solve this incident
it cannot be discounted -
500M Site ! their foot prints disappeared or covered with snow .. any information (like photos) ??????
Expert 05-12-2016 12:28 (GMT)
My first question is useless. but what about second question ?
Expert 05-12-2016 12:02 (GMT)
Robs / What type of aircraft did the hijackers use ?
Expert 05-12-2016 09:31 (GMT)
Robs / it is written on this site - A chain of eight or nine sets of footprints, left by several people who were wearing socks, a single shoe or barefoot, could be followed and led down towards the edge of nearby woods (on the opposite side of the pass, 1.5 km north-east) but after 500 m they were covered with snow.


disappear ? or covered with snow ?
Robs 04-12-2016 20:22 (GMT)
My theory is that hijackers forced them to leave tent with no shoes and little clothing knowing that they would soon die (and attacked them later). The tracks disappeared just like the tracks from the 9'when they setup camp
Expert 04-12-2016 17:15 (GMT)
I misread. About footprint disappeared 500 M from tent. just covered with snow. . . . . . this made me puzzled haha
Expert 04-12-2016 16:56 (GMT)
Robs / that was zolotariov's , which puzzled researchers earlier before he was discovered with his leather boots.
Ivanov concluded nobody around the site , the day
Robs 04-12-2016 13:38 (GMT)
There must have been boot prints around the tent. Otherwise the 9 setup the tent without boots which is impossible.
Expert 04-12-2016 11:22 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRaRPNhc67k
Expert 04-12-2016 11:20 (GMT)
Snow sports is not my favorite .
So I Research how perfectly the shoes could remove footprints . ( even poles leave sharp trace behind )

I remove the possibility of military.
Expert 04-12-2016 01:13 (GMT)
their goal was otorten where Mansi warned . they would want a thrill with curiosity. but Mansi warning became real. I am reading Mansi interview. they seemingly watched everything relative to their death (death of fellow tribes ,
weird death of some animals , hovering balls. . )
Mansi tribes were afraid of going there.
So, they named it Otorten.
Expert 04-12-2016 00:10 (GMT)
the Russian was walking even with barefoot. total angle of the terrain was gentle with much snow.

when I watched the videos , I guess injuries of the 9hikers were caused by attack - not while running .

Expert 03-12-2016 23:49 (GMT)
This videos were the pass of the hikers at the day.
(from tent to ravine)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOVmADGlX2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpJi6iNWF0
Expert 03-12-2016 17:21 (GMT)
this mystery can not be explained in close age, if it is not explained with open mind.

many scientists explained the globe was flat . but they could not explain why last land had not been discovered .
Expert 03-12-2016 17:09 (GMT)
And why do Nobody explain about one that need to be explained ? ?
footprints of 9hikers along 500 meters site from tent .
where ,, why did it evaporate ?
Nigel Evans 03-12-2016 14:11 (GMT)
Expert - don't know, could be just one that stayed by the tent for say an hour before heading down to the ravine, or it could be two separate BL events.
We'll never know the exact sequence or reasons, all we have are the facts, which are :-
1. they fled the tent very quickly.
2. they would not return to the tent preferring to stay by the fire and the den.
3. tree tops were burnt.
4. 2 of them suffered burns.
5. 4 of them died from injuries consistent with an explosion.
6. eye witness accounts describe lights/explosions a week later.
7. the mansi people blamed the golden orbs.
8. an experienced police investigator was forced to agree with them.
Expert 03-12-2016 13:40 (GMT)
You answer second question of me -> if BL chased the hikers , why did BL give them time ?

so you said it - 2 or more than 2. one was around tent. another was around cedar or ravine.
Right ?
Expert 03-12-2016 13:30 (GMT)
the video below your reply .
Nigel Evans 03-12-2016 13:03 (GMT)
Expert - what video?

No my theory is they fled the tent to escape the BL there which did not follow until later or it was another one. No chasing down the hill.

These two entries from wikipedia have all of the necessary elements to explain the DPI, BL covering distance to reach group, killing individuals and explosive force. N.B. the mast might have been 20 inches in diameter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning The Catherine and Mary

In December 1726 a number of British newspapers printed an extract of a letter from John Howell of the sloop Catherine and Mary:

As we were coming thro’ the Gulf of Florida on 29th of August, a large ball of fire fell from the Element and split our mast in Ten Thousand Pieces, if it were possible; split our Main Beam, also Three Planks of the Side, Under Water, and Three of the Deck; killed one man, another had his Hand carried of [sic], and had it not been for the violent rains, our Sails would have been of a Blast of Fire.[10][11]

The Montague

One particularly large example was reported "on the authority of Dr. Gregory" in 1749:

Admiral Chambers on board the Montague, 4 November 1749, was taking an observation just before noon...he observed a large ball of blue fire about three miles distant from them. They immediately lowered their topsails, but it came up so fast upon them, that, before they could raise the main tack, they observed the ball rise almost perpendicularly, and not above forty or fifty yards from the main chains when it went off with an explosion, as great as if a hundred cannons had been discharged at the same time, leaving behind it a strong sulphurous smell. By this explosion the main top-mast was shattered into pieces and the main mast went down to the keel.

Five men were knocked down and one of them very bruised. Just before the explosion, the ball seemed to be the size of a large mill-stone.[2]
Expert 03-12-2016 12:58 (GMT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOVmADGlX2Y
Expert 03-12-2016 12:56 (GMT)
I am thinking that (after watching the video)
1. the distance between tent and ravine is shorter than I thought .
2. terrain angle is gentle ..



So, they (attacker and escaper) might watch easily the lights- each others possessed . . . . . .

It is unlikely their ribs broken happened by falling into ravine .
(( there were much snow piled on gentle terrain. )

Expert 03-12-2016 12:27 (GMT)
This is the video I really wanted for investigation on internet.
and I recommend peoples here watch this video - some Russian investigators walking along hikers 's pass ( from the tent site to the last ravine site ) .
Expert 03-12-2016 08:26 (GMT)
Robs guess they fell into ravine, got ribs broken.. after that,, some eyeballs removed by scavengers .

Nigel guess they got ribs broken by BL .. after that,, some eyeballs removed by scavengers .

If eyeballs,tongue were not removed by scavengers in nature,
the force must be artificial force.
Expert 03-12-2016 07:45 (GMT)
Ravine 4 injuries were made by artificial force.
Expert 03-12-2016 07:43 (GMT)
And The thing Teddy said "all soft tissue of them must have been damaged.

i think this is very important. to say whether ravine 4 got the injury by mistake or by attack.
Expert 03-12-2016 07:35 (GMT)
Nigel // you need to explain this question.
they clearly were frightened by something around their exit.
and you claim something is ball lightening.

1) there have been such BL phenomenon reported that fly with group ?
- Witnesses said a group of balls hovering

2) if BL chased the hikers , why did BL give them time ? (this sounds unlikely)
-It took time for them to make a fire , dig a den......

you explain it as a physics .
BL have electronic and life have electronic. so the hikers were chased by BL.

I assume the balls could wander around the tent.
that is why they watched out and did not come back in sever weather.
and it might be possible there re-appeared around cedar there was ,at least, 2th attack around ravine.

Expert 03-12-2016 06:58 (GMT)
Teddy // You mentioned a important thing - to say whether ravine 4 got the injury by mistake or by attack.

# About Eyeballs , tongue removed .

I don't think the injuries happened by the scavenger.
(I like to watch nature documentary, book or article..
that is one of hobbies of me)
I wonder which life eat other life like those way. . . ? ? ? ? ? ?
Investigators have to mention the cause as this injuries are important.
They would know those weren't caused by scavengers bite. ( at least , there were microscopes in 1959. though they were poor compared to now)
Nigel Evans 01-12-2016 13:00 (GMT)
Teddy - no probs.

Rib theories :-
1. Ball lightning - A week after the deaths eye witnesses saw a light moving through the sky and subsequently reported two explosions. Historical accounts of BL include substantial explosive force. So this was the bomb that the pathologist suggested.
2. The local mansi have a hallucinogenic mushroom (fly agaric?) that assists them jumping high in rituals. However these injuries are consistent with falling 60 feet so they'd have to be jumping high! Happy and no skin injuries to support such impact.
3. Military accident during exercise - unlikely because it would have (a) been reported so no need for an investigation (police / kgb teams on site for three months) or b) explosive device would have left some fragments.

An unusual number of dead birds (white grouse) were found around the ravine. An explosion is the best theory to explain the rib fractures and hence the skull fractures.
Teddy 01-12-2016 10:56 (GMT)
I was commenting on Rain's question about blood in the lungs and got carried away. I wanted to testify that there was blood in the lungs for sure.
Nigel, the cause of the tongue injury is speculative, but I have not heard a theory about the ribs so far. I know what could cause it, but who inflicted it and how. i think even Rakitin doesn't explain that.
Nigel Evans 01-12-2016 10:00 (GMT)
Teddy - Wow you're lucky to be alive, hope you've fully recovered.

Yes you're echoing the pathologists report that the injuries required substantial energy like in a car crash or the shockwave from a bomb, his words.

But LD did lose her top lip as well as the tongue so it could be natural causes via predation, a theory being that she bit it hard in the "event", swallowed a little blood before dying, predation from something with a low consumption rate doing the rest.
Teddy 30-11-2016 18:09 (GMT)
Another thing - what caused my trauma is high velocity impact - I was mounted in the back of a truck, much like this http://dyatlov-pass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film6-05.jpg the truck going down a mountain and the brakes failed. The truck lost control and we smashed into a rock with 70 km/h. So I tell you - you can not break your ribs by falling down a snow slope or somebody hitting you with a heavy bat. This is what is puzzling me, even if there were people pointing guns at them, how did they manage to inflict such a horrific injuries? A butt of a rifle can cause and most probably did cause Slobodin's skull fracture http://dyatlov-pass.com/death#Slobodin but not Dubinina's broken ribs. Zolotaryov had similar rib fractures http://dyatlov-pass.com/death#Zolotaryov
Teddy 30-11-2016 17:52 (GMT)
Dubinina had 10 broken ribs on both sides. Please refer to http://dyatlov-pass.com/death#Dubinina I had similar injury - flail chest with lung contusion http://distal-humerus.com/resources/320/gallery/2012-07-24-X-Ray-chest.jpg They drained my right lung for 10 days - it was a pulp. My prognosis was dim.
Dubinina had twice as much broken ribs but she didn't drown in her own blood because a broken rib pierced her heart.
The cause of death is stated as hemorrhage into right atrium of the heart, multiple fractured ribs and internal bleeding
More interesting is that there were 100 g of coagulated blood in her stomach which means she swallowed after her tongue was ripped out.
Photos of Lyudmila from the morgue clearly show that there is no damage to the mouth, nose, ears or other soft tissues. If the body was devoured by scavengers, insects or even fish in the water these would be the first parts of the body that would show signs of damage.
Rain 30-11-2016 17:07 (GMT)
Was there any blood found in Dubinina's lungs?
Nigel Evans 30-11-2016 15:24 (GMT)
the threat was strong enough for them to ignore the axes in the tent.

Accidentally killed in a military exercise would be reported and there would no need for an investigation. Plus no foot prints found.

It has to be murder or natural force of some kind. If murder then the murderers tried to look after them first.....
Expert 30-11-2016 06:37 (GMT)
Nobody was shot by soldier gun. but what made them urgent ??
and where have soldiers footprint gone ?
Expert 30-11-2016 06:34 (GMT)
but it seem that
they did not resist but just run urgently , did not come back before death.. Though soldiers seemingly did not shot them, why they were so scared ??????????
Expert 30-11-2016 06:28 (GMT)
But that made me confused is that - there were soldiers of witnesses . they watch hovering object. but none of them did not say illuminating shell . (soldiers can distinguish it easily )

and personally i cannot understand the situation - why there were no footprint of soldiers.
soldiers would give them time to leave from the site. or soldiers would arrest them to investigate about why they were there or what goal they had or how they got to know the site.
Expert 30-11-2016 06:05 (GMT)
illuminating shell .When It is used at night, we can see
as at night as at day .
it could make tree top burnt
Expert 30-11-2016 05:59 (GMT)
I think.. It is hard for usual peoples to do the threaten. .
9Mansi also killed in past time. (even except for 9 killed by airplane accident)

that made me think militant possibility is high . . .
and burnt tree at top remind me of illuminating shell
illuminating shell was used when we did war training . this photo - http://www.timesofisrael.com/rocket-or-mortar-shell-fired-from-gaza-at-israel/
Expert 30-11-2016 05:40 (GMT)
# The possibility of military.
I was a soldier. (all men in our country have duty on military)
Where i was on duty was around border line.
(our country was divided by war . long time before)

There is tension along the border (in military zone)
-Usual citizens banned from entering the zone.

if someones are found in the zone,
1-soldiers would warn them go out . if they don't obey the order, we report it to our senior.. waiting for order.
or when they extremely resist with weapon, soldiers can shot with militant gun.

that is usual way.

Military is the organism run by order.

i thought the possibility of military was high. because the force seemed to be very strong.

9 peoples (containing 7 guys) couldn't think any resistant with only panic.
Even tent torn in sever cold.

the force must be very strong.

Nigel Evans 29-11-2016 21:53 (GMT)
Thought that last post was worth restating :-

That they fled the tent and then lit a fire instead of returning to the tent rules out a lot of possibilities.

EITHER
a) fleeing a natural force that remained at the tent after they had reached the trees.
OR
b) prisoners of something/someone that insisted they leave the tent without footwear but let them light a fire and strip the first two in order to stay warm and build a den in the shelter of the ravine. But then killed them....

I'll stick with a) Happy
Nigel Evans 29-11-2016 18:27 (GMT)
That they fled the tent but then lit a fire rules out a lot of possibilities. Either fleeing a natural force or prisoners of something/someone that insisted they leave the tent without footwear but let them light a fire and strip the first two in order to stay warm and build a den in the shelter of the ravine.
But then killed them....
Expert 29-11-2016 16:50 (GMT)
I think sincerely the possibility of extraterrestrial.
Expert 29-11-2016 16:46 (GMT)
the Last photo was like hovering object taken by Krivonischenko .

But the photo taken really in last time would be zolotaryov's. it might be real reason why ravine 4 were attacked. he would take a surprising photo. ( he protect his camera around his neck. )
other ones .. what about that ? 29-11-2016 14:54 (GMT)
hovering ball was nothing with the incident.
injuries happened by their accident.
it make the incident easier.
Expert 29-11-2016 14:44 (GMT)
If i discount Ivanov , Robs opinion is heard "proper".
Expert 29-11-2016 14:36 (GMT)
that might be very simple incident. . .
Chaser and Runner at night.
(but , footprint of chaser around tent ?? )
Expert 29-11-2016 14:29 (GMT)
this is my contradiction to Robs opinion.
but when i communicated wih you, rather i thought it .
if i discount some arguement,
Robs opinion is heard logic to me .

In other words, Everyone might have made simple incident so complex.




Expert 29-11-2016 14:19 (GMT)
(1) i still dont understand why investigators did not leave mention - eyeballs or tongue by animals.
(we are just talking about that .. watching photo , but they watched real injury)

(2)Ivanov concluded no one around the day and the site.
(but you Robs guess it - by human)

(3) I read medical report - ravine 4 died earlier than others
(i will check out again)

(4) It seems that Ivanov the investigator consider burnt tree as a point. but a member of soviet congress forced him not to talk about that.
(but Robs discount flying ball)

(5) radioactive
Robs 29-11-2016 13:35 (GMT)
I don't believe the doctors report. Remember this was 1959 and I think it was inaccurate. I find it difficult to understand how they can say they died in a certain order after months of being in the ravine. Also if clothes were missing off the ceder tree 2 and were found In the ravine then they were either stripped of clothing while still alive or the ravine 4 died after the ceder tree 2 (this is more likely)
Expert 29-11-2016 12:44 (GMT)
ravine .. my english -.-
Expert 29-11-2016 12:41 (GMT)
I will check the article out again
Expert 29-11-2016 12:40 (GMT)
I just read it at medical report - raven 4 died earlier than other 5
Expert 29-11-2016 12:38 (GMT)
I am thinking now... but your opinion is logical.
Robs 29-11-2016 12:26 (GMT)
Expert, yes I agree. However some of the clothes found at ravine were from ceder tree two. That means that the ceder tree died before the ravine 4 otherwise why take there clothes
Expert 29-11-2016 12:24 (GMT)
Ok, now .. our reply order ( answer after question ) is fused .. haha. anyway i am reading your opinion.
Expert 29-11-2016 12:18 (GMT)
as i said before, it might mean - all peoples dig a den around raven. and something attacked them. and the first death happened. and 5 peoples were scattered. I think it s possible logic
Robs 29-11-2016 12:17 (GMT)
People have reported seeing hovering lights all over the world many times none of which have been proven to kill multiple persons. I don't think the BL or lights are relevant. I'm
Not denying that they weren't there but I don't think they chased the 9 and killed them. The injuries i have 2 opinions, 1. They fell into the Ravine which caused crushing injuries, they were attacked by persons unknown.
Expert 29-11-2016 12:14 (GMT)
Robs/ 2 under cedar died after raven 4 died ( medical test ) .. what about that ?
Expert 29-11-2016 12:02 (GMT)
If something was other human, which is also mystery .
Expert 29-11-2016 11:57 (GMT)
car crush like injury but no external injury.
Expert 29-11-2016 11:55 (GMT)
Mick and robs/
so,, How can you explain hovering balls ? or both of you think that is not relative with this incident ?
how they left those injury - like car crush ?
Robs 29-11-2016 11:42 (GMT)
The bodies in the ravene were not found for 2 months. This means certainly animals could have done this. For every question there are two more. They were buried under 4 meters of snow, so when did that occur? Why were they wearing clothes of other members ? My opinion is that they were all at the ceder tree and then split up from there. That's the only explanation I think otherwise why would they be wearing each other's clothes?
Expert 29-11-2016 11:40 (GMT)
I need to check out more info. about natural flying ball like ball lighting .
but I ask you another question - if there is an example of lighting ball in group type.
(allegedly witnesses saw a group of hovering balls)
Expert 29-11-2016 11:31 (GMT)
that is a real wonder which life eat only eye balls of other life .. . Animals tend to leave their trace-such traces torn by bite or beak. ..
even i doubt if there were snails around Siberia mountain stream in winter .
Robs 28-11-2016 18:09 (GMT)
That is a possibility Mick, certainly i think that the group were hijacked by persons unknown
Mick 28-11-2016 17:44 (GMT)
Earlier, the group had had an argument with a drunk man who claimed they'd stolen his wallet, so perhaps when he'd sobered up he got his friends to follow the hikers, and clubbed them in their tent?
Nigel Evans 28-11-2016 08:27 (GMT)
expert - something like water snails explains the assymmetry, LD eyes and tongue, SZ eyes other two untouched. Rodents would presumably attack all four bodies more evenly. Imo it's plausible that there aren't a lot of water snails around in a siberian winter.

The pathologist did not offer any opinion as the loss of her tongue. No one knows how it went.
Nigel Evans 27-11-2016 18:39 (GMT)
Robs - well Tunguska is a subject as big if not bigger than the dpi, but from memory - the main explosion can be explained by a bolide but only one with a very very very specific construction and mass to be able to survive the earth's atmosphere but not leave an impact crater.
And a bolide doesn't help explain :-
1. eye witness accounts of many subsequent explosions for minutes afterwards (like cannonfire).
2. eye witness accounts of a large change in direction.
3. earthquake lights (from memory before and after the event) - daylight at midnight in parts of Europe.
That's just off the top of my head.

I'm glad you are 99% certain that CM isn't caused by BL. Other people aren't so sure Happy. One of the interesting features of CM is that the animals can be found in ground or on snow banks that show no signs of the animal walking there, as if they fell from the sky. N.B. these reports are from hard headed farmers, vets, police etc... Thrown by an explosion?

Ufo web sites are full of reports of bodies being found in remote places (e.g. google Unit 58) but you've got to believe in conspiracy theories to accept their case. If like me you don't then you would have to widen the time span. If you say how many recorded cases of fatalities in the last 500 years are due to BL i would guess at dozens maybe three figures, and that's where eye witnesses survive of course. Just because something is infrequent doesn't lessen it's suitability as an explanation of the dpi.
A example of this is that someone has asked the question "how many people have been killed by meteorites in recorded history?" and the answer maybe 1000, apparently the ancient Chinese have records going back thousands of years. One guy (1800s?) was recorded as being hit in the chest as if shot from a rifle. Don't think he'd be consoled by the infrequency of the event... Happy

Expert -
Q. If it was natural phenomenon,
where did eyes or tongue disappear ?
A. I've answered this before, predation, e.g. water snails can be carnivorous.

Q. why did not they call others... hiding self from something ?
A. Who are they going to call in the middle of a siberian forest? Ghostbusters? Happy

Q. why did Soviet cover up a natural phenomenon ?
A. It wasn't covered up, it was diluted to *unknown and compelling force" and the soviet authorities closed the area for three years to investigate. This was Soviet Russia where civil servants got arrested and shot for telling the truth.
Robs 27-11-2016 17:28 (GMT)
Nigel, I am sorry but I dont agree with your explanations. Tunguska was a meteorite is is almost 100% proved, cattle mutilations is unexplained but I can say 99% it's not BL. Nigel, In recent history, I mean in the last 20 years has anyone been killed let alone 9 people Killed or seriously injured due to BL?
Nigel Evans 27-11-2016 15:52 (GMT)
Robs - well as BL cannot be explained by our current science, it affords people like me - "supporters of the BL explanation for the DPI", the luxury of just making things up Happy. So it's not hard to concoct theories.

Imo there are a number of phenomena that seem to be explainble (at leat in part) as due to a "geo motor effect" (BL, Tunguska, cattle mutilations), i.e. some as yet unknown (but probably based on electro magnetism) physics where there seems to be some interaction between the earth's magnetism and atmospheric static electricity, possbly compounded by solar wind activity (latitude=60). This interaction seems to create localised massless energy that persists for a limited time. These events are infrequent but can repeat at certain locations possibly due to the prevalence of suitable conditions within the ground and latitude.

But regarding the DPI :-
1. They fled the tent by the close proximity of BL at or near the entrance.
2. The "campfire two" deaths have multiple possible explanations, fall from tree plus lost conscious whilst unattended and falling too close to the fire (burns, charring) or electrocution from BL. Imo the proximity of the den to the campfire suggests that the remaining seven saw no threat and hence that leans against BL so probably natural causes.
3. The remaining group (all 7) are in the ravine when the same BL at the tent or a new event moves towards them scorching tree tops. It then explodes (a known feature of BL) with great force and heat, killing four of them immediately (injuries consistent with explosion trauma) or they expired shortly afterwards, LD bit her tongue in the explosion and had time to swallow blood, the wound subsequently attracting predation. The explosion kills a significant number of birds roosting in the trees nearby.
4. The remaining three are the hardest to explain, all seem to be returning to the tent but expire in a close grouping. ID has clear signs of hypothermia, but the other two less so. The overnight temperature in the area in general was -20C and it is estimated that on the mountain it would have been closer to -30C. And of course there could have been some other reduction of temperature connected with BL? If the BL was giving off heat it could have created a localised artificial wind, reducing the local temperature in the immediate vicinity (that cold spot is ribbed a sign of high winds). I have a memory of reading a report from local mansi of extremely high winds that night, this contradicting the official weather reports..
So best guess is that the explosion weakened them, they were exposed to extreme cold (possibly supercold?), they could have suffered radiation exposure that the autopsies missed (radiation was found on their clothing but could have been picked up from exploring disused mines) and this resulting in them expiring at a similar time.
5. As to the question - "why would the BL be attracted to groups of people, well human beings are electrical systems rich in metal compounds so perhaps the answer lies there (but we don't know). BL accounts clearly describe how it interacts with metal (follows overground, underground cables etc.). Or the ravine could slightly closer to underground metal deposits than the rest of the ground, etc etc etc.
Robs 27-11-2016 13:57 (GMT)
Nigel, please can you explain why they left the tent due to BL, then explain how it followed them, then explain how it killed 4 in the ravine, then explain how it killed the 3 returning to the tent, then explain how it kept the two from returning from the tree to the tent ?
Nigel Evans 27-11-2016 12:15 (GMT)
Robs - a frequent occurence of BL is that a single object divides into several - "a string of pearls". Indeed the last link from expert records an eye witness account of this.

Daniel - any explanation of BL has to account for it's mobility over potentially many miles, see my BBC link below. Specifically wrt the dpi - formation at altitude in the clouds, travelling through the sky (for many miles?) slowly descending to ground level. It's fascinating stuff, one account describes how BL appeared within a passenger jet, exited harmlessly through the pressurised fuselage and then bounced along the wing perpendicular to the airstream (approx 400mph). If you're interested in more accounts Paul Sagan's - Ball Lightning A Paradox of Physics, is a cheap source of hundreds of eye witness accounts mainly from the scientists, engineers and military at Oak Ridge Labs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Ridge_National_Laboratory
Robs 26-11-2016 16:58 (GMT)
The bodies weren't found for weeks. Footprints couldhave easily been made or covered without any hassle including the hijackers foot prints (if that's what happened) the BL theory is just too far fetched for me, to make them Leave the tent in such a panic, apparently follow them and kill them at different locations doesn't seem right
Admin 26-11-2016 15:20 (GMT)
> Daniel
You can send me the PDF at the email listed at the top of this page, above the comments. I will published under http://dyatlov-pass.com/theories
Daniel 26-11-2016 15:17 (GMT)
Hello,
My opinion is that indeed the all nine people had to do with an extraordinary phenomenon involving (in my opinion) an atmospheric electricity process. A large-scale electrical discharge (a unique plasma discharge) generated by landscape configuration and tectonic plates stress in the area. In laboratory simulation, high-intensity electrical discharges (see Dense Plasma Focus device - http://web.brasimone.enea.it/plasma/plasma1.htm ) are associated with X, gamma radiation, heat release and other effects. To see if indeed the environment in that area can create large scale electrical discharges with unique features you need to have some measurement devices (voltmeter, amperemeter, magnetometer)and patience. The process is cyclical.

I have a description of this hypothetical process - I could send it in pdf format?

Thank you,
Daniel
Nigel Evans 26-11-2016 13:23 (GMT)
For ball lightning fans, one of the theories to explain it is that it is a plasmoid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmoid apparently you can generate one in your microwave - http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/gmr/
Nigel Evans 26-11-2016 13:12 (GMT)
Expert - thanks for the links, but everyone please be aware that my virus software (Symantec) blocks some of the links within the first page as attack sites.

Some interesting details though that i haven't heard of before :-
1. a cold spot near the tent due to a heat source melting the snow and refreezing. This ould be freeze thaw from the sun but the situation doesn't seem to fit that possibility.
2. An unusual number of dead birds found in the area by the rescue party. An explosion would explain that of course.
3. The snow that covered the ravine four was four metres deeps and very solid (frozen) requiring a lot of digging. The depth could be due to drifts but this doesn't explain the solidity. But both the depth and solidity can be easily explained due to a heat source melting the snow on the sides of the ravine that then slid down over the bodies and then refroze...
Robs 25-11-2016 21:44 (GMT)
The key to the whole mystery is the tent and the reason that the had the escape quickly. Once you have that answer the rest will be obvious (just my opinion). I have thought about the reason and knowing that they were experienced mountaineers and scientists or at least students the only reason i can think of is they were hijacked by internal or external persons.
John 24-11-2016 09:27 (GMT)
I should clarify. By similar injury I mean impact related or blunt force broken rips skull fractures the like. I have a theory about the woman who bit off her tongue. But I'm doing some digging into that before I post it.
Expert 23-11-2016 00:19 (GMT)
All my possibility is limited in ''gun man or alien from space or yeti''
(I don't believe in Yeti. there is little possibility but I can't discount it in this incident.)
Expert 23-11-2016 00:04 (GMT)
I am thinking about that - the first discovered pose of Dubina

she was climbing stone in stream ( though it was very cold winter )
and she was discovered in that pose

- she would be alive with removed eyeballs .
Expert 22-11-2016 23:55 (GMT)
and something wasn't any animal
Expert 22-11-2016 23:53 (GMT)
1.Something did not chase them as soon as they run ..
but started to chase them after some time.

2.They did not call each other after scattered
- it mean they tried to hide oneself from something.

I am saying that wasn't any natural force.


Expert 22-11-2016 23:41 (GMT)
John // all of them had similar injury ? I didn't understand it exactly.
John 21-11-2016 12:01 (GMT)
Expert. Given the near universal presence of impact related injuries I'm wondering about the construction of the tent it seems the only way all of them could have such similar injuries is if initial incident occurred at the tent. Keeping in mind experienced hikers cut their way out of a tent in a dangerously cold area.
Expert 20-11-2016 05:56 (GMT)
There are many videos some Russians explored on the site..
Expert 20-11-2016 05:51 (GMT)
.. well........... i need to correct my last reply. i am not sure every fire can be sensed on the place. but a chaser could find their fire site easily in night time. ANany way , Russians would get more information. from their updated research. i need to check out the more information
Expert 19-11-2016 23:33 (GMT)
i found interesting thing on the russia site linked.
On the place where the tent was made ,a Viewer could see every light. If something was artificial force, it seems that the force could see every light the students made. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AIDi2udwl8 ( 4:36 view )
Expert 19-11-2016 23:18 (GMT)
( my english is poor , our country don't use english. so i learnt it as a second language) but i understood entire situation. this is the reality novel that made me fall into ..
Expert 19-11-2016 23:07 (GMT)
the tent was discovered 25 days after they had been missed . but little amount of snow over the tent in 25days.
Expert 19-11-2016 22:55 (GMT)
there are many hypothesis.. most of them are useless. i check every possibility out. clearly most of them are useless. we cannot know what is real .. but we can know what don't fit in .. Avalanche - the possibility is 0%
Nigel Evans 19-11-2016 13:35 (GMT)
The link - http://www.climbing.ru/forum/all/topic_1534/ can be translated online. Go to google translate and copy and paste the link in the left hand side and then click on the right hand side.

Lots of discussion there (58 pages!). Imo the avalanche theory can be discounted because it doesn't explain why they clearly avoided returning to the tent to get boots and clothing even after two had died.
Expert 16-11-2016 20:39 (GMT)
something interesting is that diatlov pass is likely same to now since 1968
Expert 16-11-2016 20:30 (GMT)
to montana. the site linked by you looks very good. many replys and many photos by Russians. But I have no idea on Russia languages.. I just can use a little English as a 2th language. But photos and videos make me interesting . I am checking those out.
montana1903 14-11-2016 14:03 (GMT)
Just realised a person who looks like Mansi among the group ! It even gets more interesting..

http://www.climbing.ru/forum/all/topic_1534/
Nigel Evans 04-11-2016 17:08 (GMT)
I expect to see an increased frequency of these reports now that many people have a video camera enabled smartphone. Looking forward to the day one explodes on camera...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37843273
Nigel Evans 02-11-2016 00:25 (GMT)
Coral Hull - your post is an interesting piece of synchronicity for me. I've just returned from Ireland where i purchased a book - "Field Guide to Irish Fairies". This tells me that some fairies are fallen angels. It also describes the Sheerie a nocturnal fairy that lures travellers to their deaths because they follow it's light.
This led me to google Will-o-the-wisp and find links were people (in previous centuries) have captured the lights and the material producing them describing it as luminescent frogspawn that quickly degrades to a whitish, grayish foam. Note the report on YD....
Nigel Evans 01-11-2016 23:59 (GMT)
Expert - and you need to read my posts properly.
Coral Hull 01-11-2016 01:11 (GMT)
Fallen angels [orb form, pagan gods, fake UFOs] murdered the hikers at Dyatlov Pass, on 2nd February, 1959. I believe that a manifesting demonic entity, [known as a yeti, menk, bigfoot or skinwalker], was also involved in the murders and assisted by the fallen angels. I haven't seen/ or read anything that comes close to explaining/ describing all the injuries and positioning of the bodies after death.


Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 20:34 (GMT)
Remind me what are we agreeing to disagree about?
Robs 31-10-2016 19:12 (GMT)
Ok we will have to agree to disagree
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 18:55 (GMT)
Robs > Just for you Happy, four people died here :-


The Great Thunderstorm of Widecombe-in-the-Moor
Another early description was reported during the Great Thunderstorm at a church in Widecombe-in-the-Moor, Devon, in England, on 21 October 1638. Four people died and approximately 60 were injured when, during a severe storm, an 8-foot (2.4 m) ball of fire was described as striking and entering the church, having nearly destroyed it. Large stones from the church walls were hurled into the ground and through large wooden beams. The ball of fire allegedly smashed the pews and many windows, and filled the church with a foul sulfurous odour and dark, thick smoke.
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 18:53 (GMT)
Robs - you've got to be kidding, the Warren Hastings event killed two men?

Also the sentence - " By this explosion the main top-mast was shattered into pieces and the main mast went down to the keel.". Is talking about a section of the mast being shattered that could be 70 feet long and 21 inches in diameter. That's a significant explosion imo, i wouldn't want to be in a ravine with that going off over my head...
Robs 31-10-2016 18:45 (GMT)
So there is no record of multiple deaths via BL
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 17:22 (GMT)
Robs - the three cases below would seem to give you :-
1. strong explosion capable of shattering rib cages "like a shockwave from a bomb".
2. burns.
3. burnt treetops.




The Catherine and Mary

In December 1726 a number of British newspapers printed an extract of a letter from John Howell of the sloop Catherine and Mary:

As we were coming thro’ the Gulf of Florida on 29th of August, a large ball of fire fell from the Element and split our mast in Ten Thousand Pieces, if it were possible; split our Main Beam, also Three Planks of the Side, Under Water, and Three of the Deck; killed one man, another had his Hand carried of [sic], and had it not been for the violent rains, our Sails would have been of a Blast of Fire.[10][11]

The Montague

One particularly large example was reported "on the authority of Dr. Gregory" in 1749:

Admiral Chambers on board the Montague, 4 November 1749, was taking an observation just before noon...he observed a large ball of blue fire about three miles distant from them. They immediately lowered their topsails, but it came up so fast upon them, that, before they could raise the main tack, they observed the ball rise almost perpendicularly, and not above forty or fifty yards from the main chains when it went off with an explosion, as great as if a hundred cannons had been discharged at the same time, leaving behind it a strong sulphurous smell. By this explosion the main top-mast was shattered into pieces and the main mast went down to the keel.

Five men were knocked down and one of them very bruised. Just before the explosion, the ball seemed to be the size of a large mill-stone.[2]
HMS Warren Hastings

An English journal reported that during an 1809 storm, three "balls of fire" appeared and "attacked" the British ship HMS Warren Hastings. The crew watched one ball descend, killing a man on deck and setting the main mast on fire. A crewman went out to retrieve the fallen body and was struck by a second ball, which knocked him back and left him with mild burns. A third man was killed by contact with the third ball. Crew members reported a persistent, sickening sulfur smell afterward.[13][14]
Robs 31-10-2016 17:14 (GMT)
Hello Nigel, without reading word for word it seems no one has been killed and if they have none have got similar injuries to the DPI persons? Maybe you can clarify?
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 13:31 (GMT)
Robs - pasting my link from the 4th post on this page :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning N.B. most ufo sightings are probably ball lightning.
Robs 31-10-2016 12:11 (GMT)
How many people had BL actually killed leaving these exact injuries ? I suspect none but I'm not an expert?
Nigel Evans 31-10-2016 11:13 (GMT)
Expert - there are 10,000 theories for the DPI none of which can be disproved, aliens, forest fairies, mirror universes, etc etc. Imo it's pointless to speculate like this.
I'm only interested in sticking to the facts.
One of the most important facts is that (as said before) they urgently left the tent but then lit a fire a little time afterwards.
This narrows down the possibilities considerably to either natural but non intelligent force, or prisoners and subsequently murdered.
The "murdered prisoner" theory doesn't really fit with the facts whilst the natural force theory fits quite well with what is known about ball lightning, the mansi beliefs in "golden orbs" and eye witness accounts of lights very near to the date of the incident.
That's why Ivanov an experienced police investigator favoured it.
N.B. bl is famous for passing through walls, airplane fuselages without leaving any mark. So the bl theory for the dpi could include a fireball entering the tent.
Nigel Evans 30-10-2016 10:51 (GMT)
Expert - My understanding is that Ivanov stressed that he didn't mean UFOs = alien ships, but UFOs = fireballs. My wikipedia link below describes ball lightning behaviour that explains the dpi facts - fatal contact, explosions. Just shows that you should never believe anything you read in newspapers.
Imo there's no need to link ball lightning with ufo = aliens, bl is almost certainly a natural phenomenon that our science is yet to explain.
Expert 29-10-2016 17:33 (GMT)
all possibility were limited in my thought.
The attack of Military or Extraterrestrial
Expert 29-10-2016 17:17 (GMT)

Something was coming towards tent exit.
Or .. ..
They were listening to threaten sound(like gun shooting sound)
They were listening to threatening sound (like gun shooting sound )

They thought their urgent weapon ( knife , ass ) were useless to something.
They choose ''just run ''

Something would stay near tent, which would made them not come back

The distance between tent and them is over 1.5 km.
But it seems that they could watch something because something stayed in bright light.

Expert 29-10-2016 16:42 (GMT)
to _CE399_
i don't think something was Yuri Yudin . because investigators already would suspect and investigate him on what he then did or where he then stayed.
And if he was killer, he would steel clues like diary, camera.

Frank Black 25-10-2016 19:27 (GMT)
Best web site I've seen so far with very comprehensive injury information. I don't believe in a Yeti, UFO or any of that paranormal crap. There is only one kind of animal that can inflict that kind of damage to those young people- MAN. Military security, regular Army whatever but I believe it was other humans. I know that it might take some of the "lunatic fringe" mystery out of it but really a Yeti, be serious. Look at the autopsy data, some of those kids had the crap beaten out of them. You have to look at this logically plus 9 intelligent educated young people lost there lives possibly because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Cat 25-10-2016 18:29 (GMT)
I still do not buy the avalanche theory. I'm no expert and certainly I am very new to the Dyatlov Incident but if there was an avalanche why on earth would someone stop running and walk and it seems an orderly walk at that!
As for having a camera cocked, yes that is one of the first things you are taught to not waste film but eventually you do for quick shooting also you can load film carefully to get an extra few frames so really there is nothing unusual about that fact.
Nigel Evans 25-10-2016 17:56 (GMT)
My thoughts todate :-

1. Their boots were stacked in the front corner inside the tent but something made them flee into -25C so quickly (by slitting the tent open in the diagonally opposite corner) that they didn't (couldn't?) pick them up.

2. But this something didn't curtail lighting a fire 1500 metres away. Imo this considerably narrows the possible causes to :-
2a. prisoners of persons that didn't leave any detectable footprints.
2b. a perceived danger but not one with intelligence (human or animal), that would detect the fire and come after them.
N.B. the numerous slits in the tent together with a camera on a tripod and SZ's secret camera favours (2b) imo. They were observing something.

3. The victims of weapon testing testing theory is counter to the facts. The soviet authorities investigated the case very thoroughly. Ivanov's police team was complemented by a KGB team, alpine experts and helicopters. Some of the dpi group had worked in top secret establishments and SZ was almost certainly a KGB "minder", so defection was a worry for the state, but all that effort is hardly necessary if the state already knew the cause. It is possible that the expense was to ensure that all the bodies were accounted for (no defection) but the ravine four took three months to discover which makes the case that the authorities could have just waited for the spring thaw if they already knew the cause. I find it easy to say that it was not weapons testing.

4. If so it was either a "natural force" or murder. The injuries of the ravine 4 are very difficult to explain as murder. LD's rib cage on the RHS has two fracture lines under the armpit but none in the lower half. The pathologist's opinion seems reasonable that this profile is of strong and localised kinetic energy such as a car accident or the shockwave from a bomb. SZ's injuries are very similar in this regard, his rib cage on the RHS breaking along two seperate lines, imo this fits better with a single event (explosion) than two seperate murder events. As said below the lack of bruising can be explained by the cold and LD's tongue and stomach blood can be explained by her biting her tongue badly, swallowing some blood as she died with the wound attracting predation (e.g. water snails). However the completeness of the tongue removal including supporting muscle echoes one of the injuries found in cattle mutilations - "empty mouth cavity". A pity the pathologist didn't go into more detail here.

5. Although the pathologist recorded most of the other deaths as hypothermia this is contrary to modern opinion (full bladder) and only ID displays the classic symptoms. YD and YK could have died from afterflow but that still leaves RS and ZK as "warm when they stopped moving", RS had a skull fracture but ZK is the hardest to explain.

6. YK had a massive burn on his lower left leg and foot (30cm x 10cm). This could be due to several reasons, loss of conciousness when too close to the fire, torture but also electrocution.

7. It was observed by the rescue party that tree tops were burnt.

8. The rescue party observed "lights" and reliable eye witnesses recorded lights a week after the fatalities are presumed to have taken place. One of these reliable witnesses talked of two explosions.

9 Radiation was found on some of the clothing, this could be from investigating mining activity on the journey or from the fatal event. However a water test suggested that the initial exposure could have been quite high and there are observations of the clothing exhibiting a purple glow. The helicopter pilots only flew the ravine four after being threatened by a superior officer at gun point (they wanted to wait for lead coffins).

10. The local native people had no doubts as to the cause - goldern orbs.

11. Ivanov wanted his report to state the cause of death was due to "fireballs" but he was overruled and forced to state a more general conclusion - "unknown and compelling force". Crucially in order to support this change in direction material was removed from the report. This can only be because it supported the fireball theory, n.b. there are no entries in the diary after leaving the base camp....

12. There are numerous photos taken from the cameras that seem to show nothing unless highly magnified and then a ball of light can be seen. Some of the observations of lights talk of concentric rings with a point source (star) in the centre. I don't know what 1959 photographic film was capable of but maybe the human eye can detect light wave lengths that are not detected by the film?..


Nigel Evans 24-10-2016 12:58 (GMT)
Expert - and then they lit a fire?
Robs 22-10-2016 09:51 (GMT)
If the autopsy is to be believed and there are no external injuries then then only explanation is crushing like from an avalanche. I am not skilled in this area but that would be my explanation. BUT and this is a bit BUT I don't believe the evidence reported because none of it makes sense.
No external injuries even though multiple ribs broken
Walking in single file from tent even though seemed to exit in absolute panic with no clothes
Multiple injuries such as crushed skulls
The ravine 4 seemed to be there for a while even setting up a temporary camp.
The only thing that makes sense is that they were either high jacked at least to start with
Nigel Evans 20-10-2016 17:48 (GMT)
CE399 re your comment that their injuries are not consistent with ball lightning.

I must disagree, bl is documented as being explosive and the burns could be via electrical discharge also well documented.
BL is in my opinion the best explanation of the established facts.
Nigel Evans 20-10-2016 15:22 (GMT)
CE39 when the clothes were removed from the bodies and hung up there were observations of a "purple glow". I'd agree that the water test doesn't prove anything. N.B. when the ravine four were to be moved by helicopter the pilots initially refused to take them until lead coffins were provided. Could be that they knew something that never made the report?
kkz 20-10-2016 15:09 (GMT)
Well I don't think Yuri Yudin has to do anything with the deaths. I mean come on. If he was was the assasin, he must have secretly follow the hikers for days, carrying his own tent and stuff. Or he was with others? Again: a group must have follow then the hikers for days - and there's no evidence of a camp anywhere near.
Also if they we're following the group in a great distance, so they couldn't notice them, they wouldn't end up, where the group had ended, because that place wasn't on the original route. (Yuri Yudin was surprised where they have found the bodies.)
Also it's highly unlikely that a killer, or a killer group travels for days in the snowy mountains just to kill a group then travel back for days. (Yeah, you can say, they killed them there, because it's so far out, that people won't find the bodies. But they did. And the killer must have know they will eventually.)
If Yudin was the killer, he wouldn't leave the group at all - he just would went with them, and kill them in their sleep or something.
Also Svetlana Oss's book mentions that Yudin was collecting minerals this time with other students, and there are student diaries to prove this. Also Yuri Yudin being the killer explains nothing about the strange circumstances, that made Dyatlov pass incident a mistery. (Strange lights, radioactivity, missing tongue, etc.)
Yuri Yudin's alibi, motives and whereabouts been fully examined?
Not at all.
Is there any evidence against him?
Nope.
_CE399_ 20-10-2016 13:22 (GMT)
Nigel Evans, regarding fireballs and prisoners:

I lived and worked in Laplandia which extends over the northernmost quarter of Norway, Sweden and Finland and an equivalent area of Russia. And that is why I am interested in the Dyatlov incident.

Because one of the most esoteric theories is that one or more of the group was planning to defect to Norway. I think that theory is silly nonsense but it turned my head one day and caused me to take an interest in the Dyatlov event.

Ball lightning, fireballs, starbursts, skylights, "night suns", daylight bright & lingering meteorite storms, highly localized aurora borealis events, and other light and sound presentations happen all the time in the valleys and ravines of the sub-polar arctic regions.

Members of the Dyatlov party would have been very familiar with the northern lights and various types of light and sound events. They would have found the fireballs interesting and noteworthy that were supposed to have occurred on the night of their demise. But no "fireball" would have sent them into a panic.

Their injuries are not consistent with any kind of ball lighting or fireball.

Escaped prisoners would not have ventured into that river valley. And if they did, why didn't they take any possessions or supplies that would have been crucial to their own survival.

No, the prisoner theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

But a theory that the Mansi did it or something to cause it is viable.

Like the Mansi, the indigenous Laplanders have a scary sounding name for every unsafe pass or accident prone traverse like "valley of doom", "Mountain of no return" and yes, a lot of "Dead Mountains" or more accurately "Mountain where stupid people die who don't take good advice".

Laplanders are peculiar people in the sense that they do not come across as your enemy but they are certainly not your friend either.
_CE399_ 20-10-2016 11:54 (GMT)
Regarding radiation sickness or directed energy weapons being involved in any way with the Dyatlov group:

Although both are real, neither has any basis for being included in the contributing factors of the causes for the group abandoning their shelter and supplies or the injuries they sustained.

Radiation is abundant in nature, especially in the Urals region where the Dyatlov incident occurred. The group had visited abandoned campsites and villages where geological assays had been conducted. In 1959 in the Soviet Union, geological assays consisted of obtaining surface and core samples at various depths and compiling a statistical report of the likelihood of the amount of each of the metals and minerals found in the area being explored. In the 1940s and '50s uranium and other naturally occurring radioactive elements were of utmost interest.

The group photographed themselves handling discarded core samples and hanging around the buildings and structures of the abandoned geological research facilities.

The amount of radiation detected on some of the clothing was consistent with what would be expected of people who were essentially kicking around in the dirt in that area.

Radiation testing was unofficial, its accuracy unknown and it was an extremely shallow sample from only a fraction of the clothing and possessions. Most of the clothing, bodies and possessions of the group were never tested.

Just about every book, movie, documentary, video and blog fallaciously states "high levels of radiation were found on the clothing [and/or] bodies". This unfounded assertion is used to launch innumerable theories radiation caused group panic and all of the injuries--especially oozing gray foam and discolored skin.

But there is no evidence the group was exposed to any radiation in any significant degree and even if they were, it is unlikely they would have fallen ill when they the did, and in fact did not just get ill but died.

Radiation was not a significant factor in the event.

Directed Energy Weapons have existed on a large scale since at least Sept 11. 2001 when DEWs of some sort destroyed the World Trade Center buildings (all seven of them, not just he towers.)

In 1959, the only directed energy weapon of any military value was microwave transmitters.
Nigel Evans 20-10-2016 10:43 (GMT)
CE399 hi, I think there are only two theories that are credible, Ivanov's fireballs or prisoners. I'm with Ivanov and the shockwave from a bomb theory.
Interesting that you've been in the artic circle.
What I've read about hypothermia is that as the body constricts blood flow to the limbs etc the reduced volume results in increased pressure which the body control's by offloading fluid into the bladder via the kidneys. Concurrent to this the victims mental faculties are highly diminished (no urination). So a full bladder =1000ml is almost guaranteed in hypo deaths. Only ID displayed this.
_CE399_ 20-10-2016 10:07 (GMT)
To illustrate the gross inaccuracies of the science that has been the basis of the most popular conclusions regarding the Dyatlov incident:
<<==
Patient G., thirty-three years old, was admitted to the hospital on 23 January 1964. A doctor picked him up off the street, hesitating as he debated whether to take him to a morgue or a hospital, and ‘just in case’ decided to bring him to a clinic. The limbs [of the body] were bent at the joints and could not be straightened out – the body was ‘stiff’. The rectal temperature was below 0C. Heartbeat, breathing and reflexes were completely absent. Direct cardiac massage and intra transfusion were started. After twenty-five minutes, there was ventricular fibrillation of the heart. After forty minutes, breathing appeared. After fifty minutes, weak contractions of the heart began. After three hours and twenty-five minutes, the patient regained consciousness and started to talk. He remembered that having finished work, he drank 750 grams of vodka and went home. The air temperature was -29C. He had been lying on the street for seven hours. There was no evidence of damage to the central nervous system (CNS), and one year later the patient’s condition remained good.

Excerpt from "Death by Hypothermia" (1977) by V.P. Desyatov as quoted in Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (Kindle Locations 1565-1568). . Kindle Edition.
==>>

Conclusions based on the coroner's reports of the presentations on the skin and other external components of the Dyatlov victims bodies along with all other declarations of the coroner's reports regarding causes of death can be summarily disregarded.

The above book "Don't Go There: Post Mortem" by Svetlana Oss provides conclusive evidence and argumentative reasoning for essentially throwing out every officially documented conclusion of the medical examinations. Only the raw data and observations--insofar as they can be determined to be sufficiently objective--can be used to form any hypothesis that have a chance of surviving a test against the significant amount of verifiable evidence, most of which is no longer extant.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 20:09 (GMT)
Comment to all previous posts:

1. Zina Kolmogorova's postion at death is not mysterious at all. Zina was romantically involved with both of the men whose bodies were closest to her body. The group had split up at some point with some of them forming an expedition to try to get back to the tent. The "tent" subgroup was Zina, Dyatlov and Slobodin. Zina was the best clothed, strong and athletic but had been struck in the side and back with something resembling a baton (or butt of a rifle). She made it the furthest of any in the "tent" expedition but of course, succumbed to hypothermia. The "tent" expedition was ill-fated because no one was properly clothed and all had sustained injuries and expended too much energy most likely fighting off their attacker(s).

2. The attacker(s) killed Thibeaux-Brignolles most likely because he tried to be heroic in trying to defend the girl in the group who was closest to him in age. His injuries are consistent with an impulsive young man who is killed by a much more experienced fighter wielding a long, hard object like a baton, rod or rifle. Zina's injuries are also consistent with such a weapon and more closely match what a male assailant who was an experienced fighter would do to woman who tried to attack him.

3. Regarding the so-called "lack of external injuries". The medical examiners were mediocre. All of the victims were experiencing various stages of advancing hypothermia when they sustained injuries. Bruising is not seen because blood flow is retracted from the skin of a hypothermic person. The body concentrates blood into the vital organs when it becomes hypothermic. I have personally experienced this happening very rapidly and very acutely. A cut on hypothermic skin that is shockingly deep may not bleed at all. In a particular episode of M*A*S*H a patient is said to have survived because he was "frozen" and would have bleed to death in warmer weather. The television series was known for its on-set medical advisors who took real accounts of combat from the Korean War and adapted them accurately for the show. The only thing that is not entirely accurate about the episode is that the soldier was not "frozen" because freezing kills tissue and bursts vessels. The soldier was hypothermic and his blood flow was restricted so much to the area of the wound that it did not bleed. The noticeable lack of "external injuries" is due to hypothermia. Remember, people are quite conscious and alive when their bodies begin to react to hypothermia.

4. I have lived a number of years above the Arctic Circle. Lights, fireballs, and other strange luminescent events are common. People in the lower latitudes only know about "the Northern Lights" but there is a whole range of strange and spectacular things that happen at the higher latitudes. And it's not all lights either. Sound events often occur too, with and without lights. I have heard and seen things that I would think were alien ships wizzing by or crashing if I wasn't an engineer with a physics education. The amount of energy deflected and channeled by the earth's magnetic field is enormous and causes all sorts of light and sound shows at the higher latitudes.

Everyone wants to treat the fireball events seen around the time of the Dyatlov tragedy as special. Sorry, that sort of thing is not special at all. Go spend a couple winters up there and you'll see. I have. And I am not impressed at all by the stories. They are as common as hurricanes in Florida. Sure, some are bigger than others and some seasons have few and others a lot. But what was seen was not unique.

If you take any story in isolation, it can be made out to be a spectacular or strange occurrence.

How many accounts of the Dyatlov incident mention that the lights in the sky seen at that time were also seen before and after that day for many days and from year-to-year? And none of the witness accounts of the "halos" are certain to have occurred exactly on the day when the group perished which is another issue.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 19:21 (GMT)
Comment to Robs:
Group infighting does not explain the hurried exit from the tent unless someone pulled a gun on the rest of the group. Or say, grabbed Lyuda and threatened to slit her throat if the rest of the group didn't do as he said.

Zolotaryov had the most unstable personal life going into the trip. He was a serial job-hopper. That is often a sign of an acute personality or psychological disorder that suddenly erupts. He was a loner and from a culture that almost required marriage yet remained unmarried at an age that was considered too old.

Zolotaryov had strange tattoos which are not that unusual for hardcore Soviet military men except that they were too cryptic in way that was not normal.

Zolotaryov was a Cossack from a group that was 97% wiped out by Stalin's genocide. He survived by joining the Soviet army and proving himself loyal to them. To abandon your familial heritage and join the enemy has to mean something is askew or will go askew with you psychologically at some point. And Zolotaryov had a very askew career and personal life.

Zolotaryov was an unvetted outsider with a very suspicious past that included World War II service where Soviet soldiers committed genocide, murder, torture and rape on a scale that certainly touched his experience if not fully involved him.

I would agree that infighting could have been what happened if Zolotaryov had not suffered the same violent death as Lyuda.

Zolotaryov was well clothed when he died of internal trauma. The rather mediocre coroners said there were no "external signs of injury" i.e. bruising to match the cracked ribs. This has been mistakenly attributed as evidence that the "overwhelming force" was some mysterious electromagnetic beam weapon.

Every other member of the group had a lengthy history with each other that rules out any of them as being involved in a fatal infighting incident.

Only Zolotaryov could have been the cause of an infighting conflict that drove them to their deaths. His background paints a very troubled person. But nothing that indicates he was a sociopath.

The biggest problem with trying to pin it on Zolotaryov is that he died with the other victims in a way that could not have been self-inflicted. And there just isn't another person who can be fingered with any reasonable degree of evidence. The group was also nearer the beginning of the trip than the end. Nerves get frayed during an expedition of several days but the group had not been traveling in the wilderness as a group, out of contact with the rest of the world, for more than four days. And they had not encountered any significant difficulties that would accelerate interpersonal tensions.

Someone from the outside attacked the group and did so for reasons that were personal and excluded most of the group.

Because Lyuda was so viciously attacked and two other men with her were killed violently, the most logical scenario is that the attacker(s) drove the group suddenly out of the tent.

At some point, some of them fought back and escaped. Some of them were seriously injured in the process and all were too weak and vulnerable to survive which would explain why the attacker(s) did not pursue them.

A person improperly clothed in a storm at -25 Celsius isn't going to survive the night. The escapees tried to get a fire going and climbed a tree to see where they were --strong evidence that they were driven from the tent by an attacker and not a fireball. If they had had a choice of where to flee, they would have headed toward the larger river, main path and their storage cache by the abandoned campsite.

Some of the escapees tried to get back to the tent and some stayed with the fire. Those who stayed with the fire were burned because that is what happens when the fire is too small and the weather too cold.

The clothing was not taken off of dead bodies, it was ordered to be given to the subgroup that the attacker was most interested in dealing with. People just assume the clothing of some of the victims was removed by their comrades after they died. In a hostage scenario the possibilities include clothing being ordered to be removed.

Because Zolotaryov was wearing Lyuda's hat and because his injuries would have left him alive for minutes or hours, it is logical to imagine that the assailant injured Zolotaryov first. Lyuda then, seeing him injured took compassion on him and gave him her hat. This likely took place in "the den" where Lyuda would have been out of the wind and could have survived without a hat.

The assailant then attacked Lyuda, perhaps it was because she showed compassion for Zolotaryov. Her injuries are consistent with someone acting out of anger and not as part of a fistfight.

The assailant then left the group after seeing that all of them were dead.

Doing such a thing was crazy stupid illogical and irrational but most crimes of passion are.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 18:17 (GMT)
Q14. What is the most likely scenario that explains how the group died?
A14. Yuri Yudin either attacked the group or was an accomplice of the attacker(s). He left prematurely and his alibi is unverified. Yuri Yudin is seen in photos to be most affectionate with Ludya who was the target of the greatest violence. He therefore had romantic motive.

An attacker or attackers stalked the group from the moment they left the last town. The best opportunity for attacking the group was just before they began their ascent of the mountain. They would be furthest form civilization but not yet away from cover that allowed the stalker(s) to remain hidden.

The attacker(s) approached the tent and made demands that caused all or some of the members inside the tent to cut the tent in an attempt to flee from the threat at the opening. The lack of space and urgency of the situation did not allow anyone to gather up any supplies or clothing.

The assailant(s) forced the team to march down the hill toward the cover of the trees. The choice of going toward the small river and off the main path by the big river indicates the assailant(s) wanted privacy.

The objective was to confront one or more members of the team.

Yuri Yudin or someone he was assisting had a personal, likely romantic matter to resolve with Lyuda. She was the last to die and it was a viscous beating that killed her.

The person who received the next most violent beating was Zolotaryov. He was the likely usurper who received punishment for either being romantically or sexually involved with Lyuda. The autopsy report on Lyuda does not mention sexual activity as it does on Kolmogorova.

The mystery of why Zolotaryov joined the group is explained if he had a romantic interest in Lyuda.

This would also explain the suspicious coincidence of Yuri Yudin's departure from the group upon the arrival of Zolotaryov into the group.

And lastly, Yuri Yudin is the sole source of the one detail that delayed rescue operations claiming that Dyatlov told him they would be a few days later than expected.

Yuri Yudin's motives, opportunities and alibi were never fully investigated and he remains the No.1 suspect.
Robs 19-10-2016 17:38 (GMT)
Comment to CE
I agree that this is more likely than any other ideas.
They needed to leave he tent instantly I don't believe Ball lightening would do this. The tent had slits at eye level so they were looking out the tent for some reason. They could have been marched out fought and the group had a chance to run and split up. I still think that it could have been in fighting between the group. I just don't see the BL theory at all.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 16:40 (GMT)
Q9. What scenario explains some of the members suffering physical trauma inflicted by an assailant yet the injured and uninjured remain together after the conflict?
A9. An assailant from outside the group of injured and uninjured is the only explanation. If you are violently attacked or witness someone near you being violently attacked, you flee from the attacker. The uninjured and injured members of the Dyatlov group remain together, therefore the attacker was not among them.
Q10. Could the attacks have been a subgroup since there are three location groupings where the bodies were found?
A10. No. The uninjured appeared to have died before the injured. If a subgroup and attacked another subgroup, it would be the attackers who survived longest, not the victims.
Q11. Were any of the group involved romantically?
A11. Yes, very much so. Kolmogorova was involved with at least two of the men prior to the trip.
Q12. Was Lyuda Dubinina involved with any of the men?
A12. Unknown. Lyuda was the youngest and prettiest of the two. She was only 20 years old and was very extroverted, perhaps even flirtatious.
Q13. What types of scenarios explain a person inflicting an attractive young woman like Lyuda with such violent and severe chest injuries?
A13. Anger and sociopathic behavior. Lyuda sustained an amount of violence that cannot be explained as happening from a fight. The person or persons who fractured her ribs did the same to Zolotaryov who was found near her.
_CE399_ 19-10-2016 15:23 (GMT)
Q1. Why cut tent to leave it?
A1. Because the usual opening was blocked and leaving was deemed mortality urgent.
Q2. What urgency could cause such action?
A2. Most logical cause would be an armed and dangerous person blocking normal exit.
Q3. Why would team march down the slope in formation and away from where they had just left their cache of supplies for the return?
A3. Because someone pointing a gun at them forced them to walk away.
Q4. Who would force them away from their shelter but not raid the shelter?
A4. Someone whose interest was not in the possessions of the people but the people themselves.
Q5. Who would have had an interest in the people?
A5. The tenth member who left the group on the pretext of illness.
A6. The most logical of all suspects is Yuri Yudin, the tenth hiker who left the group.
Q7. Is the claim that no one entered the camp supported by the evidence?
A7. No. It is spurious reasoning at best. Although no other footprints were found, the absence of footprints proves nothing but an absence of footprints. Snow shoes would leave no trace that could be seen three weeks later. Yuri Yudin could have returned, perhaps with accomplices, wearing snow shoes and left no evidence of their presence.
Q8. Has Yuri Yudin's alibi, motives and whereabouts been fully examined?
A8. Not at all.
HK 17-10-2016 20:49 (GMT)
Who is the Author?
Nigel Evans 13-10-2016 11:41 (GMT)
Well this site has a photo of LD's chest (may she rip), most of her ribs were found to be snapped with one penetrating the heart. No bruises can be seen or were recorded except one on her thigh.

Eye witness accounts of lights and explosions near to the assumed date of the event.

Ergo the ravine four died from an explosion....

The only explanations i can think of for the close grouping of the "returning three" is acute radiation sickness or deep snow. An ARS theory requires the symptoms to be missed by the pathologist. Skiing off piste i've fallen into loose snow that was chest height in depth and no one could walk/crawl through that quickly. But two of them didn't die of hypothermia? RS was warm when hestopped moving (could be the skull fracture) but ZK is the most difficult one to explain, she was relatively well dressed?

Robs 12-10-2016 08:03 (GMT)
I agree the 3 were coming from somewhere else maybe the ravine?
How accurate were autopsies back in 1959?
What I mean is some of the bodies was not found for months, how can they say that they had no visual evidence of impact injuries ?
Nigel Evans 11-10-2016 14:17 (GMT)
Robs> for me the close grouping of these three is one of the big questions. They are clearly in transit (no camp or den) presumably returning to the tent but they all stop walking/crawling within about 200 metres of each other. Weird.
Given that the terrain would take them off course (seeking the easiest path) i don't think their actual position relative to the tent or the cedar is very relevant. We can't know. Also somne maps show them taking the shortest route with others having them elaewhere?

But we do know that they all perished so close to each other and that cannot be easily explained imo. Also only ID showed clear signs of hypothermia.
Robs 11-10-2016 10:07 (GMT)
Why do we think that they never returned to the tent ? A few options.
Couldn't find it (why not just retrace steps)
Something was stopping them
They were terrified

Also the 3 that were found trying to return seemed to be off course and not setting off from the tree. This means they were elsewhere when heading for the tent.
Any ideas?
Nigel Evans 05-10-2016 17:53 (GMT)
>RPGStylee, the wind conditions are a bit of a mystery, from memory the locals reported extremely high winds but all the relevant weather stations reported nothing unusual. The last photo of them making camp suggest whiteout conditions, i.e. possibly high winds.
Nigel Evans 05-10-2016 17:48 (GMT)
>Robs, it maybe you have little experience of alpline conditions, like skiing?

What happens on snowy hills/mountains is that depending on the attitude of the ground to the sun, there is variable freeze/thaw were the sun melts the snow during the day and then it refreezes at night. These areas can be be like glass and difficult even for correct footwear. Skiers sometimes describe them as "boilerplate".
Further to this, these areas can then be hidden by light snowfall.
So nobody runs down snowy mountains unless they've got spiked footwear and not in the dark of night.
Indeed it maybe that the group deliberately went northeast towards the cedar rather than southeast to the base camp because the north face is always easier wrt to freeze/thaw. ID's last diary entry mentioned how icy the conditions could be away from the river. These conditions might be the cause of most of the cuts, bruising and even head fractures as they repeatedly fell over.

I've been googling around hypothermia today and come across "after flow". What happens with hypothermia is that the body restricts blood flow to the limbs in order to protect the core temperature. When a hypothermic patient is warmed up there is a risk that the body relaxes this restriction too quickly and the (relatively) cold blood in the limbs rushes into the core and the patient dies of the shock. Apparently the correct approach is to increase the temp of the trunk without warming the limbs at all, via drinks and hot stones, clothing etc.
So given that YD and YK had charred digits and burns there as a possible explanation for their early death, i.e. they sat too close to the fire and warmed up their limbs instead of their core.
RPGStylee 05-10-2016 16:53 (GMT)
It may be that they wanted to run but couldn't because of high winds and poor visibility. What was the weather like on the night?
Robs 05-10-2016 16:25 (GMT)
Nigel, I know what the report says but im wondering your opinion. Further down the slope the report says they seemed to be walking. This doesn't make any sense what so ever. They leave the tent in a panic with no clothes (or very little) and then walk to the trees. If they are walking (obviously not panicked) why not turn around and walk back to the tent? I guess he question I'm asking why not walk back to the tent what was stopping them? Are we assuming BL stayed above the tent stopping them? Then moved down and killed the remaining four?
Nigel Evans 05-10-2016 12:30 (GMT)
>Robs. Nope, as said before, the only evidence of their footprints is further down the slope and they seem to be walking.
Robs 05-10-2016 10:47 (GMT)
So you agree that they ran from the tent and didn't walk to the tree line? So if you agree then you must question the findings that they walked in single file because it isn't true.
Nigel Evans 05-10-2016 10:32 (GMT)
Robs> i'd agree that leaving the tent so urgently and unable to return but comfortable with lighting a fire 1500 metres away must rule out a lot of possible threats. Unless they were prisoners the threat cannot be human or animal imo.
As an aside i've been rereading Svetlana Oss's book and it appears that medical science has moved on since 1959. Specifically she passed the pathology findings to an expert in hypothermia and his opinion is that many of the original findings are confusing the effects of post death freezing with cause of death and it's probable that only ID died of hypothermia.
Robs 05-10-2016 05:11 (GMT)
They lit the camp fire because they were dying threat or no treat they had no other option. They were too scared to return to the tent at that time for what ever reason. We have to agree that they left in panic and ran to the tree line. Or were forced out of the tent and walked there is no other explanation unless you can explain it. This is the most important part of the mystery.
Nigel Evans 04-10-2016 21:23 (GMT)
Robs> the photos of the footprints (under TENT) do seem to be of normal walking, not running. Bear in mind that there were no footprints immediately near the tent and those photographed are somewhat further on.
So inconclusive imo. N.B they were sufficiently relaxed about the threat to light a campfire at the cedar...
Robs 04-10-2016 21:04 (GMT)
So that is exactly my point. The report said they walked to the tree line. I thought we all agreed that didn't happen and they must have ran. You don't cur your way out of the tent (obviously in a panic) leave with no or little clothing (obviously in a panic) in minus 20+ and then walk in single file to the tree line. So we either agree with the report and they walked or we don't agree in that they ran.
Nigel Evans 04-10-2016 19:25 (GMT)
>Robs and all BL doubters.

From Svetana Oss's book, a report from the Tagil Worker Feb 7th 1959.
Yesterday at 6.55 am local time, to the south-east, at an angle of twenty degrees above the horizon, a bright globe appeared about moon sized. Around 7am, inside of this globe, there was some sort of explosion and a very bright core of this globe became visible, which started to glow more intensely, and around it appeared a cloud. Then the cloud dissolved in the whole eastern part of the sky. Soon after this a second explosion took place, and it resembled the crescent of a moon, gradually the cloud was glowing and in the centre of it remained the bright spot.
- A. Kissel Deputy Head of Vysokogorny Colliery.
The same event was reported by another group.
There are other similar reports on the 15th and 31st of March.

Also i'm not aware of a finding that they ran from the tent, all i've seen is that they walked.
Robs 04-10-2016 17:50 (GMT)
These were scientific professionals not your average man off the street. Something happened in the or around the tent that made 9 people panic and evacuate the tent under extreme pressure. Knowing it was minus 20+ they left without clothing and equipment. We already agreed that they ran from the tent not walked so that already falsified the report saying they walked in single file. I see no evidence of BL or the phonomia of the low wave sounds that "send people mad". The BL to strike in 3 different locations and kill multiple persons is at best highly unlikely. We are missing something if they didn't read the tracks correctly as mentioned above then they could have missed other things in my opinion
Nigel Evans 04-10-2016 16:33 (GMT)
RPGStylee > yes, the stove was on the floor of the tent and they stored excess material in the hut as they were about to ascend the hills and only took what was needed. My errors.

However lighthearted Happy i can't agree wrt the drug theory, they setup camp by the cedar, stripped the bodies of clothing and then created the den in the ravine. All sensible organised behaviour which would seem to rule out "crazy people".

Re metal - you're right that the BL theory requires multiple events 1500 metres apart. So hence a theory that the group attracted it somehow.

There seems to be an empirical connection between BL and ionised air (lightning strikes + more frequent reports at altitude). Maybe also spinning ionised air (foo fighters, dust storms).

The post wrt Hesdalen lights waa mine. I think the connection with latitude is interesting. We're sitting on the crust of a big ball of molten rock whose centre is a big ball of molten iron. This molten iron presumably has currents, coriolis force, convection etc. Perhaps this can create a local concentration of energy as yet unknown to science that manifests as lights, BL etc. Maybe explains cattle mutilations. Maybe the metal in mammalian bodies acts as a catalyst.... Happy.
Tunguska is also at the same latitude, but an explanation for that has to include some form of bolide but cannot be fully explained by just that. A geomotor theory would fit in with my thoughts above.
RPGStylee 04-10-2016 14:49 (GMT)
>Nigel Evans

I'm sure it was found on the floor of the tent, but it wasn't set up.
I'm not sure about the metal content of the body, but it can't be enough to be the preferred path for a discharge of electrical energy considering all metals in the body make up less than 1% of the mass.

As for the drug theory, it makes about as much sense as anything at this point. I was just joking around haha.

A more serious theory I've been thinking of is that ball lightning and other 'lights' might be caused by cosmic or solar radiation interacting with the atmosphere and the magnetic field. A sudden and intense bombardment of cosmic ray particles could saturate the area with BL, and ultra high energy particles could have caused the 'explosion' that fatally injured the 4 in the ravine. Someone else in the comments has mentioned the Hessdalen lights, and that they are at essentially the same latitude as Dyatlov pass. They may have the same cause. AFAIK the lights only ever appear at night. They way the particles might interact could send them careening around the earth to the night side where they then filter down through the atmosphere.
Nigel Evans 03-10-2016 20:43 (GMT)
>RPGStylee

I think they left the stove at the base camp. N.B. the existence of the base camp suggests the trip up the hill was a diversion with a purpose.
The luxury with BL is as science can't explain it, it can be stretched to fit the theory, so maybe there is enough metal content within nine bodies ~(blood = iron, liver = copper, etc etc) to attract over 1500 meters.
Well if they ran after a trippy member why didn't they run back again when their feet got cold?
It does look like they had to escape the tent region and then used the cedar as a lookout to observe the same area.

I don't think they were sent there, just decided to do it out of interest, perhaps sought permission and SZ was attached to the group to report to the KGB. His death triggered the high investment in the investigation imo.
RPGStylee 03-10-2016 19:44 (GMT)
Ahh yeah. I suppose tent damage is something they would be well prepared for. Problem is Ivanov specifically said fire balls were spotted in the area during the investigation, which is why I would think there would be some sort of burning or intense heat. I suppose it's possible that there were both 'cold' and 'hot' ball lightning occurring over(?) the area. I don't think it entered the tent though. I think it's more likely that if it did it would have discharged into the stove since it is more conductive and it was closer to the ground(it was on the floor).

Ball lightning can't be an explanation by itself in my opinion. It would be an extraordinary chain of events for them to be forced out of the tent by ball lightning, then for it to appear again 1.5 km away at the top of the cedar that two of the group members happened to have climbed, then appeared again in a ravine 75 m away. It also doesn't account for the radiation either. It could have been just pure bad luck, but I doubt the chances of such a scenario occurring.
It must have been a multitude of events that lead to their deaths, but that would also be an extraordinary circumstance. Maybe they really were just that unlucky.

I'm not sure about them being sent there to study BL. I think the military would have kept better contact and/or conducted a search&rescue mission as soon as they failed to report back, and not wait 2 weeks for the families to complain. If I were in their position I would be sweating at the collar as soon as I found out top students have gone missing, one of which had worked in the nuclear program and another that seemed to do some shady work for the government.

The more I look into it the less progress I seem to be making. Maybe they all took drugs or something and went wild. Old Semen was like,

"hey you kids, this is the stuff that got me through the war, you want to try yes?"

They then went all crazy and one of them started tripping heavily, got spooked and just slashed his way out of the tent, then the rest ran after him or something.
Nigel Evans 03-10-2016 17:27 (GMT)
>RPGStylee. Ball lightning doesn't have to scorch. It is famous for passing through material without leaving any mark - e.g. windows, airplane fuselages. N.B. it's equally famous for damaging material including human tissue... it all depends.
So i don't see a connection with the slits as >kmr says. Imo they were quite ok with cutting slits and then repairing them, they were using the tent as an observation station protected from the elements, keeping cameras free of snow including loading film.
My theory is that they knew about the lights and intentionally went there to observe them as part of the trip and diary entries wrt this have been deleted.

Robs> my theory is that they exited so quickly because the BL came very close or even entered the tent (without leaving a trace). The first two to die - YD and YK had burns, charred digits and signs of a pulmonary edema. All of these injuries can be caused by electrocution.

So it's possible the BL entered the tent without leaving a mark, discharged into YD/YK and forced everyone out asap. Although these two could make their way down the mountain they died quickly afterwards weakened by this event, N.B although YD had frostbite but his urine level doesn't fit with hypothermia, he might have died from something else.


Robs 03-10-2016 16:36 (GMT)
I think if we ever found out why they exited the the tent then I'm sure the rest would fall into place. For me it is the key to everything. Although it say the tracks were walking towards the forest I don't believe that bit unless they were hijacked somehow. Why cut the tent to exit quickly take no shoes and then walk to the Forrest it doesn't make sense. Then either ran for cover which I believe or we're forced to. What do you guys think?
kmr 03-10-2016 15:20 (GMT)
>RPGStylee I remember that Zina Kolmogorova mentioned in her diary, that she sewed the tent at one point during the trip - so what I'm saying cuts, damages in the tent fabric wasn't too big deal for them I belive - I don't think they we're so afraid to damage their own tent, if they make a cut, they just sew it back together. If something's out there, that scares you and could even hurt you, so you don't wanna go out, till you know what it is, the best option for even experienced adventurers too to make a cut, look out, and later you can sew together that cut.
RPGStylee 03-10-2016 11:32 (GMT)
>Nigel Evans

I doubt they'd intentionally damage their only tent regardless of how old it was. I suppose it could be possible, if Ivanov's account of ball lightning or 'fire balls' is to be believed, that the group made the slits to avoid being scorched by the heat. However as far as we know there were no scorch marks on the tent and no signs of melting in the area around the tent. There are photographs of the camp site and the tent that don't show any signs of scorching or melting, but of course there is an entire side of the tent that has no known photographs taken of it. However the problem with that is the side of the tent with the slits in was photographed. This doesn't fit with the 'fire balls' he described because if the slits were made with the intention of observing a 'fire ball', there would be burn marks on the side of the tent with the slits. He also said that some of the trees were burnt too but there are no photographs of that.
Of course, the information may have been removed from the final report for an unknown reason. I personally don't think it was a cover up of anything shady. I think the authorities were just as baffled as everyone else and hid the information to avoid embarrassment(At least with the nuclear disaster in 57 they would have been able to figure out a cause).
They were too confused by whatever the events were to come up with a solid conclusion. This is obviously bad for the Soviet Union's image. The cause of death(hypothermia) was probably decided upon to give the families of the deceased some sort of closure, keeping them quiet.

The problem with this incident is that there is lots of information, but not enough key pieces of information to go on. Perhaps they all just went insane.
Nigel Evans 01-10-2016 12:53 (GMT)
>RPGStylee - good points, but Ivanov had to remove material from his original report in order to comply with orders to change the finding. So it's logical that the material supported his stated view - "it was ball lightning". This removed material was probably diary entries and photographs a view supported by there being a gap in the diary entries.
Wrt slits, cutting your tent to observe something instead of standing outside is unusual but perhaps the tent was old, at end of life and they wanted to observe from inside for an extended period and keep camera lenses clear of snow etc.

If anyone is puzzled why the report was changed, this is what happened to civil servants that displeased the hierarchy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) Later in life Ivanov gave an interview where he expressed his feelings of guilt wrt the report and hiding information from the families of the deceased. This might have included the last thing they ever wrote....
RPGStylee 01-10-2016 00:36 (GMT)
This incident is an extremely intriguing mystery, and I appreciate the effort it took to create such an informative site on the subject.

A couple of things stick out to me that I think haven't been given much attention.
The group made no entries in their diaries at all on their last day alive, only taking pictures with their cameras. Up until this point they at least made an entry about the weather everyday. Now travelling in the open under high wind would mean that they wouldn't be able to write as they went. They didn't write anything in the morning of the final day, and they didn't write anything after they got settled down in the tent for their final night either. Although, you could say that whatever it was that caused them to leave the tent happened while they were in the process of getting ready for bed.
This is out of the ordinary when compared to the previous days. Something happened either in the night or the morning of the 1st that spooked them into silence. This event may also have influenced the decision of Dylatov to go up the slopes of dead mountain rather than make for the pass. Ball lightning has been mentioned by a few in this comment section. It seems a sufficiently odd phenomenon to warrant avoidance by the group, but not frightening enough to a group of well educated individuals to not mention anything at all about it. It's probable that the group would have at least taken pictures of such events. The images may have been on the damaged film in the unknown camera. Unfortunately we may never know.

The other thing that isn't too clear to me is the horizontal eye level slits made in the tent. The simplest answer is that they were made so that the pieces of tent on either side of the large vertical slits would collapse, allowing for a fast and easy exit. From what is unknown. Since I mentioned it previously, it could have been more ball lightning. The problem with that is, it doesn't fit with the slits being made at eye level with the intent of observing the ball lightning, or something else. These are experienced adventurers. If they had wanted to observe something outside of the tent, they would have at least put on a layer of clothes and used the entrance to take a look. I doubt that they would have intentionally created slits in their only tent because of an unexplained light source. I think this lends a little more credence to infra-sound or another startling noise causing them to leave in a hurry rather than anything visual.
Robs 27-09-2016 08:07 (GMT)
Again I think they ran to the tree line. Why walk and not take shoes? It all points to exiting the tent quickly and panicked.
Robs 27-09-2016 08:04 (GMT)
Again it doesn't make sense. Why cut the tent to exit quickly and then walk to the tree line? If they were terrified of the BL why walk to the tree line?
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 20:16 (GMT)
No blood and the footsteps indicate walking down in an orderly manner. Deep snow would help explain how they missed their tracks made coming up.
Robs 26-09-2016 19:34 (GMT)
Do you know if any blood was found in or around the tent? I think you could be on the right lines about hostile. I don't think the snow blew away though
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 18:51 (GMT)
Robs > well it seems that there is no way to prove the timeline regarding the "ravine four" and the "returning three". It's equally possible that the two groups were very hostile to each other and seperated in a different manner, they would have been very upset that they had taken the wrong route from the tent and that two of their party had perished and there are injuries consistent with brawling, there's no way to know. That the returning three all stopped crawling within such a short distance of each other is saying something imo. Unless the snow was deep and subsequently blown away that would explain it.
Robs 26-09-2016 18:08 (GMT)
That is an interesting thought that they all went to the ravine, definitely possible. But I just don't see them leaving the ravine with no clothes (or shoes) to walk back to the tent?
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 17:19 (GMT)
Robs > well the 2 by the fire seem to have been the first to die and their bodies were stripped of clothing and respectfully laid side by side. N.B. a possible explanation of their injuries is falling out of a tree after suffering an electrical discharge from BL. Evidence to support this is that the tree tops were burnt (as were as the bodies).
Regarding the remaining seven my theory would be that they all retired to the ravine to shelter from the wind and built a den out of branches to isolate themselves from the icy ground. The party was sufficiently relaxed about their situation that some of the clothing was left hanging rather than being worn.
Then there was a violent event that created the injuries. My explanation is that ball lightning appeared overhead of some of the party which would have been dispersed (e.g. collecting more branches or perhaps there had been fighting and they'd split into two groups) and then exploded. Those nearest the blast received fatal injuries, those further away were thrown off their feet and received non fatal bruising (i.e. RS and SK, also ID had blood in his mouth).
What's interesting is what happens next :-
1. the remaining three do not appear to stop to recover extra clothing or footwear not even the clothing hanging on branches this suggests that they abandon the site with urgency. Some of the ravine four were very comfortably dressed including footwear (SZ and NTB). N.B. ZK had no footwear, RS had one boot, ID had no footwear, but they didn't stop to collect any even they subsequently appear to have died of hyperthermia... N.B. the clothing of the ravine four was contaminated with radiation.
2. they then appear to be making their way back to the tent but all three of them expire within say 200 metres of other? This is very strange, the snow wasn't deep, surely it should be more variable than that, that they would die hours apart, or at least one/two hours apart? It's as if they were all suffering from some fatal sickness that got all three at the same time. Acute radiation sickness? Whatever all three seem to have ceased moving forward within say 15 minutes of each other....
Robs 26-09-2016 16:25 (GMT)
So how do you explain the injuries on the 3 trying to make it back to the tent and the none injuries of the ones underneath the tree (apart from burns which could have been caused by the fire). Are you saying that there was multiple BL explosions or it was all caused by one?
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 16:12 (GMT)
Robs > well it's good to chew over it with an opposing view but what can be said for certain is that :-

1. the local mansi people blamed the "golden orbs".
2. another hiking party in the region miles away saw a light descend in the DP area and then heard a bang on that night.
3. other eye witness accounts of "lights" over the following weeks including from the rescue party on the same mountain.
4. the pathologist ruled out falling as the cause of the injuries and suggested "like a shockwave from a bomb".
5. alpine experts ruled out avalanches.
6. Ivanov an experienced professional police investigator determined the fireballs as the cause but was overruled by his superiors.
7. beta radiation was discovered on clothing and a water test suggested that the original contamination was high.
Robs 26-09-2016 12:36 (GMT)
Like I say I still don't buy the BL explanation however the only thing that we can for certain is that all left the tent in a hurry for whatever reason and died in 3 groups it's a tragic incident
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 12:03 (GMT)
Robs > i'd try reading the wikimedia article a bit further.

She didn't just bite part of her tongue off. Again from this site - "The medical records simply (state) that "the tongue is missing". Vozrojdenniy describes missing hypoglossal muscle as well as muscles of the floor of the mouth.". I.e. all the soft tissue within mouth was removed.
A possible explanation here is that she bit her tongue, swallowed some blood before dying and then predation attracted by the wound did the rest. Crustacea like water snails would be a good fit for the assymetry of the resultant damage, but note another good fit is whatever causes cattle mutilations....Happy
Robs 26-09-2016 10:14 (GMT)
Without reading the entire wiki info but just skipping there seems to be no evidence of multiple people being killed. Like I say I am not saying you are wrong but personally find it unlikely. I think they fell into the ravine, she broke ribs and bit her tongue off. She was resting on the rock because she couldn't breathe.
Nigel Evans 26-09-2016 08:20 (GMT)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
Robs 26-09-2016 05:09 (GMT)
So then the ball lightening just happened to kill the other 4 that were found in the ravine? I don't know facts on ball lightening but how many people had ball lightening killed? Do they all have similar injuries?
Nigel Evans 25-09-2016 21:27 (GMT)
then they slit the tent open from top to bottom to escape quickly (from the ball lightning that was getting too close).
Nigel Evans 25-09-2016 21:05 (GMT)
Robs > the distance from the tent to the trees is given in the map section as 1500 to 2000 metres. I agree with you that they left the tent quickly to return to the previous camp but fatally made an error in direction. Realising that they were now lost they built a fire to survive until dawn were the daylight would help with orientation. The tent had several slits made at eye height (to observe something) and then they slit the tent open from top to bottom to escape quickly.
Robs 25-09-2016 19:08 (GMT)
I have read your articles and I'm not dismissive of them because we will probably never know the truth. However let's take it one step at a time, what is your reasoning for cutting the tent to escape quickly? Only to run a few hundred meters and then stop and build a fire?
Nigel Evans 25-09-2016 18:17 (GMT)
>Robs, it's not about bombs but ball lightning, see my post dated - 04-05-2016 20:59 (GMT).

It appears that this was also the opinion of the chief police investigator Ivanov.
Robs 25-09-2016 17:47 (GMT)
I just don't buy the bomb theory. I think she bit her own tongue off when she fell, I find it impossible for the guy to say the fractures in her body were not from a fall when the bodies weren't found for months. If it was a bomb how did the others receive skull fractures and abrasive marks. Why did the others build a fire? If bombs were going off I wouldn't stop and build a fire. Why did they exit the tent so quickly? Obviously this is all my theory but I think it best explains the deaths.
Nigel Evans 25-09-2016 16:05 (GMT)
>RobS - from this website (under DEATH) - "Vozrojdenniy, who undertook the autopsy, excluded accidental fall on the rock as a possible cause for such a massive and unusual fracture"
He also said in his report (documented in Svetlana Oss's book) that the injuries of the ravine four were consistent with the shockwave from a bomb.
Also LD had 100ml of blood in her stomach, suggesting that the tongue and associated muscle were removed whilst she was still alive and she swallowed.

RobS 25-09-2016 12:00 (GMT)
Ok my theory
Why did they cut the tent to get out?
They were obviously panicked, so it has to be avalanche or threat of one. Loud noises etc would not make you cut the tent to get out. It was not an avalanche but maybe a few inches of snow panicked them. The other option is a brutal fight in tent which made them exit quickly.
I think they ran not walked down to the tree obviously thinking they were heading to the hut.
They realised that they were the in trouble as weather closed in and visibly was poor. They built fire and climbed tree trying to find hut. By then they were all together. (If it was a fight they were all back friends realising their mistake). Three went back to tent and didn't make it. Four went to find hut fell into ravine causing brutal injuries which killed them pretty quickly.
The questions that I would like answered if anyone knows is.
How deep was ravine could it have been deep enough to cause crushing injuries if they fell.
Was there and blood found in or around tent this would explain fight.
I don't think it was yeti, special forces, ufos or anything similar.
Nigel Evans 22-09-2016 16:35 (GMT)
>Joseph, the pass is at 61°45′17″N 59°27′46″E but i think you'd have to work out the other coords from the maps. Why do you need to know exactly?
They were young fit individuals, cross country skiing with 1959 equipment is a demanding activity. The pathologist noted that "the ravine four" would have probably survived their extensive injuries for up to half an hour due to their youth and high level of fitness.
Joseph G. Sego 20-09-2016 21:36 (GMT)
Also, the hiking equipment that the Hikers had seemed heavy. Does anyone know the actual height of the Hikers?? How about Luda and Zina. Judging from the pictures of the Hikers, they did not appear to be very tall or very strong. I would appreciate if I could get answers to my questions.
Joseph G. Sego 20-09-2016 21:26 (GMT)
Great site. I only hope that someone on this site has the co-ordinates of Dyatlov's tent on 1079. Also, would like to know the co-ordinates of the ravine and the cedar tree. Anyone know these co-ordinates???

Thank you
CH 17-09-2016 11:16 (GMT)
When Lyudmila Dubinina says goodbye to Yuri Yudin on the abandoned settlement of "Second-North". To the right is "Thibeaux-Brignolles" [not Zolotaryov] and on the left, is Igor Dyatlov. Cheers,
CH 17-09-2016 11:16 (GMT)
When Lyudmila Dubinina says goodbye to Yuri Yudin on the abandoned settlement of "Second-North". To the right is "Thibeaux-Brignolles" [not Zolotaryov] and on the left, is Igor Dyatlov. Cheers,
CH 12-09-2016 05:02 (GMT)
Diary 28 - Snow cover is significantly less than last year.
Lyuda Dubinina - this entry is not signed, but can't be anybody else but Dubinina.

This would be Igor Dyatlov [not Lyuda] because he had been there the year before. He spoke about Zina as well, because he was courting her at the time of the trip.
Nigel Evans 08-09-2016 11:50 (GMT)
> kmr, interesting.
It seems that Ivanov had to dilute his report from what he wanted to say - "it was the fireballs" to "unknown and compelling force" and material was removed from it in order to support the change of direction. So it's plausible that they did take photographs that have quietly resurfaced. Might be some journals out there as well.
CH 07-09-2016 11:20 (GMT)
№29-30 shows Kolevatov posing in his burned quilted jacket with humor ...

I think it is Rustem Slobodin in the jacket, not Kolevatov. Check the facial structure against other photos. Cheers,
kmr 06-09-2016 17:48 (GMT)
Hi! Great site, glad I found the place.
What do you guys think about these night sky photos that allegedly Zolotarev took?
http://www.svetlanaoss.com/blog/dyatlov-pass/cameras-and-the-night-sky-shooting/ Strange, but haven't meet these pics in other Dyatlov sites, just here, in Svetlana Oss's blog.
Suzanne 06-09-2016 13:28 (GMT)
I really like Ian's conclusion - he has by far explained what might have happened to the individuals with the most plausable explanation. Whether or not it was soldiers is probably the only "iffy" part of the explanation. It could have been natives or soldiers - doesn't matter. It definitely fits the clues left.
Nigel Evans 02-09-2016 18:40 (GMT)
>> Eugene, good link.
Although google's translation is a somewhay garbled, section 14 was interesting. He makes (to me) a new observation that three out of the four ravine bodies had scalp tissue damage towards the back of the head. Suggesting that they were thrown backwards with some force. Imo this fits with my "BL explosion" theory as would be looking at (facing) the object before it exploded.
Nigel Evans 13-08-2016 16:45 (GMT)
>> Ian, quite agree with your opening sentences, a tragic end to these young lives.

However it is very difficult to fit the facts with a "they were murdered theory". The key problem is that the autopsies showed that the extensive fractures did not include trauma to the relevant tissues, the pathologist recording that the injuries were consistent with the "shockwave from a bomb".

Another problem is that the Soviet authorities took the event very seriously and at considerable cost (police team, kgb team helicopters etc for 3-4 months) investigated it very thoroughly. The only explanation for this is that the military were not involved and the authorities were baffled and hence had concerns for national security.

My theory is recorded below ( 04-05-2016 20:59 (GMT)). I know ball lightning may sound like science fiction to some, but if so they should read "Ball Lightning: Paradox of Physics by Paul Sagan". The Dyatlov incident would fit within his classification as "Lethal Rocket BL" - descends from the clouds, travels above the ground before discharging and/or exploding possibly with loss of life. BL also explains why they vacated the tent in the way they did and "that photo".

Imo some or all of the group knew about the existance of the dyatlov lights and this is why they broke their previous camp so late (3pm?) and travelled such a short distance before they camped there on the mountain to observe them (one camera in the tent was on a home made tripod) and SZ had a secret camera of course.
Ian 13-08-2016 14:11 (GMT)
These were young people full of life and ability, who would have brought a lot of good into the world if they had been able to live out their natural lifetimes. The sheer tragedy of this story hasn’t allowed it to leave my mind for days. At least for me, trying to put together a rational explanation of the events brings a little bit of closure. I’m not saying that the hypothetical scenario that follows is what happened, but I do think it fits all of the available evidence. What do you think?

Sometime during the day or evening of Feb 1st, the Dyatlov group encountered a clandestine testing or training operation perhaps involving jets or rockets (This would explain the reports of glowing orange lights and the military debris in the area later noted by YY). It wasn’t the type of situation where there was a fear of the tourists leaking photographs of a secrete weapon (their cameras would have simply been confiscated). For some reason, the group itself came to be perceived as the threat.

The group’s journal records that as they were traveling towards the beginning point of their hike, they sometimes sung anti-revolution songs that could have landed them in jail. They twice had scrapes with authorities on their trip (once for singing). Also from the journal, it appears that they enjoyed free and open debates about a variety of topics. Later, out in the woods hundreds of km from the nearest settlement (journal entry), they probably would have felt even greater freedom in such expressions. Entering into the area of an ongoing operation may have brought them under surveylence, perhaps without their knowledge. An overheard song or a frank debate about politics, combined with their chance-but-perceived-as-“suspicious” presence in a sensitive area, caused them to be viewed as subversive.

They camped that night on open high ground. When one of the members, perhaps SZ or NYB, stepped outside to relieve himself, if it was clear, his flashlight would have been visible for a long distance, alerting anyone in the area who might not have already been aware of their tent’s precise location. Minutes later, as the group was finishing dinner and drying out their clothes, a small armed detachment arrived at the tent. Whoever it was (I’ll call them “soldiers”) knocked the tent down, fired a few rounds into the air, and ordered the tourists outside or they would be shot. (Supposedly, there were no footprints other than the Dyaltov party’s at the tent, but how could one tell? Surely the Dyaltov group made many boot prints when they set up camp, obviously the rescuers were wearing boots days later when they got to the tent. At first no one suspected it could be a crime scene. It is not just possible but probable that a couple extra pairs of footprints at the tent would have gone unnoticed).

Unexpected gunfire and barking orders would have sent a momentary jolt of fear into even these level-headed travelers. Members of the group who had pocket knives at hand quickly cut through the tent to get everyone outside before the threat was carried out. The multiple cuts in the tent were created in the panic and confusion of exiting a wriggling collapsed tent cover in the dark.

The soldiers wanted to neutralize the tourists, but to leave bullet holes or other obvious wounds would have eventually led to strong demands for an explanation from the community. The soldiers chose to expose them to the cold. Under some guise, the soldiers told the Dyatlov group that they had to leave the area immediately. With great presence of mind, the group leader, ID grabbed a flashlight and his heavy coat as he was leaving the tent. He was immediately ordered to leave them behind, setting the flashlight on the tent, and throwing his coat down, near the spot where he had exited (It’s difficult to conceive of another logical scenario that would explain these objects being found where they were).

The Dyaltov party was followed, but not very far. (Their being followed some distance would explain the heeled boot track found among their own tracks as they headed down slope - No one in the group was wearing such boots at this time). They dropped a lit flashlight on the way, either because they were ordered to do so, or in hopes of using it as a beacon to direct them back to the tent if the soldiers left.

Poorly clothed, in extreme cold, and possibly in the dark, these resilient people covered half the distance that they traveled in their entire day’s hike, to arrive at the nearest tree line. This probably took quite a bit of time, and they knew that with their level of exposure the clock was against them. They set up a small base camp under a pine tree, just out of site of the tent, and together built an emergency fire (an impressive feat with frozen wood, in the cold, with no gloves, and possibly in the dark). Afraid that the soldiers were still at the tent, and unsure if they would pursue, YD and YK were posted near the fire to keep a lookout for the soldiers’ approach. (This would explain why branches were broken off so high up in the tree on the side of the tent, when other branches would have been easier to obtain.) Perhaps they kept a lookout from up in the tree as long as they could. Many or all of the injuries on these two individuals were from exposed hands getting frost bite in the tree, eventually leading to them falling out.

The rest of the group proceeded to build a shelter in a protected area, near, but out of site of the lookout tree. The small fire of frozen wood was not enough to keep the injured YD, and YK warm. Even though they burned parts of their numb extremities, they fell asleep. Either someone in the group was with them, or came back to them, showing care and respect by placing the bodies next to each other. The outer clothes, no longer of any use to the deceased, were removed. At this point, the shelter was not yet finished, because some of their clothing was incorporated into it. The survivors did their best to stay warm in the shelter, but were dangerously cold and heartbroken over the deaths.

Shortly before dawn, the soldiers returned to make sure no one was left to tell the tale. They discovered the shelter, and a hand-to-hand fight ensued. (This would explain many’s of the group’s injuries, including the bruised metacarples on ID and RS, RS’s concussion, and the baton bruise on ZK.) Exhausted and freezing, the group was now no match for their assailants even without the use of their guns).

ID, RS, and ZK managed to break free into the darkness. They made a run for the tent, desperate for the axes or anything to help their friends. (Such a level of desperation would explain why they left the group, the shelter, and the fire, when they were so close to freezing that they could only go a few hundred more yards). ZK, a strong and brave young woman came the closest to making it.

As for the group that was left, the soldiers pressed LD and SZ to death, broke YK’s neck, and crushed TBS’s skull, neutralizing them without leaving any obvious weapon mark. (Such a grim scenario would explain the types of injuries sustained by the party members found in the ravine - crushed chests with none of the external cuts or arm injuries that would have certainly happened in a fall, explain why they were all found outside of their nearby shelter, explain the fragment of soldier’s garb found in the ravine, and explain why it was subsequently taken out of evidence). The autopsies of these group members were the most vague, because the coroners had no choice. More detail would have raised still more questions from the community and gotten them in official hot water.

It is significant that YY, who was a part of the group, knew the Dyatlov party’s circumstances better than any living person, and saw all or most of the original evidence, thought that the military had something to do with his friend’s deaths. In 2008, 6 of the original rescuers and a team of 31 experts came to the similar conclusion that military testing was involved. The official report was that the Dyatlov group died at the hands of an “unknown compelling force”. How could words come closer to summarizing the above, without implicating the party responsible? This may also explain why the military closed the area for the following three years.

Any thoughts?
Isaac 11-07-2016 07:35 (GMT)
Monday july 11 2016 i have a dream where i am sent to a disaster to clean. Flash foward. I am on a snowy mountain. Looking at a tag on a sleeping bag. In russian. Someone calls out Georgiy. The dream ends. It is 12:30. I may have been him in my past life. Please. If any other information is obtained leave a link to it. All i typed in is gregory And russian factory incident. This came up and said all of the information i need to be convinced of this happening is something bigger. I am but 14. If anyone has anymore information please leave another comment. My name is Isaac Perez.
julie 02-07-2016 17:59 (GMT)
Orange orbs I heard were associated with grays??
julie 02-07-2016 17:48 (GMT)
Whats most interesting is why they felt they had no time to gather their shoes, skiis, and he kept camera for a reason...they were into tech ask the natives.
julie 02-07-2016 17:22 (GMT)
I read that local natives know to stay away from certain areas due to lore of something thats been there a long time. Perhaps they were dropped, running from something left quick, radiation, one had color of hair changes not mentioned in article, running from something...I think they were dealing with a technology...they all look very pointedly smart why go out to such extent seems like mission gone bad.
Berkay Taşdemir 01-07-2016 04:39 (GMT)
Great but I have middle English , please add Turkish language for us.
John Wolfe 21-06-2016 02:43 (GMT)
the first half fo this video is of ball lightning and it begins with ball lightning formed by a dust-storm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmsWBrWCc8I by the way, any idea why some of my video posts are active and others are not? Am I doing something???

here's an attempt -- the last post was not active (you have to cut-n-paste it into the address box) I'll try again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmsWBrWCc8I
John Wolfe 21-06-2016 02:24 (GMT)
by the way -- this you tube video is the best I've seen on ball lightning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lavcOYUGnfQ at 11:30 into the video is a ball that comes toward and above the viewer (goes above someone who was filming from inside a building) -- THAT segment looks something that would have produced a B&W still photo much like the last of the Dyatlov photos.
John Wolfe 21-06-2016 01:56 (GMT)
Hi Nigel

My point of the abandoned village is that it was close to the area where the hikers died -- granted some distance, in miles -- but that it might have had similar experiences either lightning or ball lightning. note: hikers 80 miles away saw balls of light on a different day - and at a different location. No one abandons a village that is 1/2 way built unless there was an "unknown compelling force". Of course there could be other reasons -- such as a change in economic plans -- but these would tend to simply change the nature of the village, say from housing scientists or engineers to use by hikers or as vacation dashas. Leaving a village behind and not returning at all has to have a big reason. A reason that was not apparent when they chose that location for a village. There are areas on Earth where balls of light continue to be seen on a regular basis, maybe that area is one of them.
Nigel Evans 20-06-2016 14:59 (GMT)
John >
Yes Tesla could produce ball lightning as have others - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning But no one's got a good explanation of why it's happening Happy
Not sure that the abandoned village is part of the DPI?
I'm moving away from the anti matter comet theory, difficult to explain the modest/stationary velocities commonly observed. One of the theories for the Tunguska event is that there is some unknown interaction between the atmosphere and the earth - a "geo motor". This would explain the localisation/repetition of the "lights" phenomenon of course.
John Wolfe 18-06-2016 00:34 (GMT)
Hi Nigel,

Have you gone to much of the Dyatlovmania sites? I just went to one that claimed the tent was on a "steep slope" that was "subject to avalanche" -- which is the opposite of the facts. (that was the coldsmokeco web-site) When I see stuff like that - I just stop reading and go somewhere else.

Question: any idea, if any of the research of N. Tesla reported any fire-balls of any kind? Most things I have read or seen talk about his interest in radio and power transmission and other high voltage / high frequency phenomena -- he also worked with static charge accumulation and so I'm betting there were "accidents" which might have produced a fire-ball but were ignored as just an effect of whatever the accident involved.

That web-site you went to said somewhere that it was (in part) a work of art which presents a true event -- and what I noticed is that they sometimes used the images from the hiker's stills but crudely animated them and etc. -- made a few video clips --- also: what verification code ?

still my big question is WHY that scientist's village was abandoned ?

Was that a research site? or an engineering site? or what? What were they doing building a small village of log homes right in the middle of nowhere in Southern Siberia and then abandon the village -- some photos showing walls 1/2 way built (not falling down) and notice that ALL the roofs are in good shape as if they were just built -- several buildings have windows, but others buildings are not finished and have not been windowed, but are framed for windows. I think they left in a hurry -- which is what the hikers did as well .............
Nigel Evans 16-06-2016 12:39 (GMT)
John >
Lovely website, a masterclass in presentation.
But i don't think all of the fotos are connected with the event. But some interesting original info.
I regularly have to re enter the verification code.
I've googling further and may have hit the jackpot! :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter_comet Seems an excellent explanation for the DPI evidence. Maybe for cattle mutilations and spontaneous combustion.
I'd agree that BL maybe a generic term for multiple phenomema, google naga fireballs.
John Wolfe 15-06-2016 20:11 (GMT)
Hi Nigel,

I just went to that web-site and it doesn't have the translations I thought it had (does have a few of reports of lights and etc.)

Also: I am wondering about that "abandoned" village the hikers encounter -- here's why;
1) the buildings look relatively new with good (still intact) roofs and SOME OF THE BUILDINGS LOOK ABANDONDED 1/2 WAY THROUGH CONSTRUCTION 2) the buildings have the feel of a project abandoned 1/2 way through its start-up (could be just another failed project, but it looks more ominous) no one is even using the buildings for a shelter or village or whatever. The hikers don't say much and treat it as some normal thing.

-- this leads me to believe that it might have had problems. In the pull-down for Cameras you can clock on the entire selection of recovered film -- there are several shots of this abandoned village -- including one with a wall and roof half built -- I'm wondering why this new village was abandoned. Do you have any info on this?
John Wolfe 15-06-2016 19:37 (GMT)
Hi Nigel,

Question about this comments section:

Do you have problems with the "verification code" ? -- several times I enter the exact 'code' and it rejects it as "invalid" -- does this happen to you ?
John Wolfe 15-06-2016 19:33 (GMT)
I would think that a best fit of natural events is the best anyone can do to explain this. With that in mind: the two Florida Institute of Technology over-view lectures on lightning research (watch one, as they are versions of the same lecture) both report -- BOTH Gamma Rays and anti-matter jets (positrons) in the upper atmosphere -- so you're anti-mater conjecture could be possible. However, I'm not convinced that BL is one phenomena but could be two -- as some balls are hot and start fires and explode and cause damage, while others just go around glowing for a while and then just dissipate. Also there are a few good videos that show BL moving across the sky with a much longer life-span. (minutes as opposed to seconds)

Also: I have found a web-page somewhere with translations of interviews and autopsy reports and photos:
http://dyatlov.looo.ch/en have gone through only some of it, as it is an interactive site and there are links and etc. Worth going to and reading the interviews. The site claims to be the work of some guy named Dimitry Romashko. The above link takes you to the English version of the site -- Ms. Oss might be connected to these translations but it doesn't say -- if not, we should have two different translations to compare. Any idea where to find Oss's work on line??
Nigel Evans 13-06-2016 11:53 (GMT)
John.
I have a degree in Physics from the University of London. Yes matter-antimatter interactions release huge amounts of energy (more than nuclear fission from memory) because the atomic nucleus is annihilated but here we're only seeing the electrons being annihilated with positrons, the mass and energies involved are much much smaller. You just get gamma rays. Granted these might kill you within hours or days but not from an explosion. Anyway the BL composed of positrons theory is just some blue sky thinking from me to connect Dubinina's injuries with cattle mutilations. Very possibly (anti matter) pie in the sky.
But n.b. Dyatlov might have been showing signs of ARS - acute radiation sickness as he had blood on his lips possibly from vomiting. Weakened by ARS as well as the cold could help explain how the three failed to make it back to the tent.
Afaik, Svetlana Oss is the only Russian national who has investigated the dpi and translated the Soviet archives/reports/affidavits into English for a Western audience. Apparently it's not "Mountain of the Dead" but "Dead Mountain", which is a big difference, e.g. "The Sea of the Dead" versus "The Dead Sea". So imo it's the best source of the facts rather than spooky hype and it's not unreasonable to give her a plug when i'm quoting verbatim from her book. This is how she makes her living.
Glad you favour the BL theory. At least we agree on something.. Happy
John Wolfe 13-06-2016 04:28 (GMT)
Hi Nigel,

You need to study some high-energy physics --- gamma ray particles are among the most energetic and powerful in the universe. Also matter-antimatter interactions release huge amounts of energy -- what looks small to you is because you have confused the energy of one particle with the energy of a large group of particles.
For example: if I hit you over the head with ONE molecule of wood, I suspect that no matter how hard I do that, you will not even feel it --- now compare that with the results of a large number of wood molecules .... like a baseball bat ! The anti-matter (positrons creating BL in this example) might have a similar effect (assuming BL is made up of positrons) --- there would be a big release of energy (explosion) which could cause the injuries seen. However simple electrical energy could also do this -- which is why you see damage from regular lightning. The DPI injuries are consistent with being close to a release of a fair amount of air-burst energy -- enough to compress parts of the body without causing surface (skin) damage.

I have not read the Svetlana Oss book, however, from interviews (I just watched) I can see that she is just exploiting the DI for financial benefit - she even refuses to speak on camera about her own conclusions but suggests everyone buy the book (a dead giveaway NOT to buy the book).

Also: I noticed that several (researchers? writers? etc.) have repeated each other's nonsense as if it were fact (further confusing the story).

also: I do think the reports of BL are as accurate as can be expected - considering that the various reporters were not familiar the phenomena; like myself, I have never seen it, but do know of its existence -- many people in the 50's or 60's, even well educated people, would have never even read about BL.

I favor the BL approach to the DPI as it is the most simple, makes the most sense, and most importantly: other people at other times have reported seeing what would be interpreted as BL.
Nigel Evans 12-06-2016 17:36 (GMT)
>John, i've been rereading Svetlana Oss's book and realised i'd answered a question from you badly - wrt other sightings of the lights, her book records the following :-
07/02/59:06.55 - a detailed description from the Deputy Head of Vysokogorny Colliery.
07/02/59:0600 - ditto from a two members of the rescue group. Both reports talk about a large globe or concentric rings 5,6 times larger than a full moon with a bright star in the centre.
15.03.59:0650 - from a meteorological technician. Comet with a tail turned into a large ball with a star at the centre.
31.03.59:0400 - search party sentry on duty and all members who were awake saw a large fiery ring with a star at the centre that grew to the size of the moon before dropping out of sight. N.B. they were so concerned for their safety that they radioed the sighting and specifically requested assurances that they were safe there "because it made a pretty alarming impression"....
But the kicker imo is the following, her book records the formal interview between Ivanov the chief investigator and Vozrozhdenny the forensic pathologist who performed the autopsies. Ivanov is asking about the three who recieved the worst fractures - Tibo, Dubinina and Zolotariov (as spelt in the book). Tibo's skull fracture showed no impact damage to the associated soft tissue (i.e. he wasn't hit by a rock). Dubinina and Zolotariov chest fractures are explained as "These wounds, especially appearing in such a way without any damage to the soft tissue of the chest are very similar to the type of trauma that results from the shock wave of a bomb".
For anyone reading this and who interested in all things Dyatlov, i'd recommend her book "Don't go there"- Svetlana Oss, she's an English speaking Russian journalist who has done a thorough research job imo, granted i don't agree with her conclsion but you'll have to buy her book to find out why... Happy Not expensive on Amazon.
Nigel Evans 09-06-2016 22:10 (GMT)
Hi John.
Wrt "Anti-matter would not "dissolve" matter -- it would explode with force on contact with it!"
I can't agree, an electron / positron annihilation just results in two high energy photons (gamma rays). That's all, nothing else. Imo it could just be a pop or a fizz. But the "matter" would disappear.

Wrt to predation, well the blood in the stomach is very easy to explain as swallowed. Also the profile of the facial tissue damage amongst the four bodies found in the stream is highly asymmetric. Also it doesn't of course explain the fractures.
John Wolfe 08-06-2016 23:58 (GMT)
Hi Nigel,

a better "anti-matter" connection to ball lightning might be if the ball itself is or contains anti-matter --- which could explode with force, but no chemical heat, and could explain some of the injuries -- but not how the ball could enter the tent, nor things like the facial injuries, which are very consistent with small animals (mice or birds?) nibbling on the soft tissues. Eyes make great fish-bait and are illegal for such use in many states (they work that good) so face down in a creek might cause the eyes and etc to be eaten. I went to some forensic autopsy sites and found that this kind of soft tissue injury is, indeed, common. Anti-matter would not "dissolve" matter -- it would explode with force on contact with it!
Nigel Evans 04-06-2016 21:45 (GMT)
> John, only know about the videos on youtube.

Thinking further on the connection between lightning and positrons, if i assert that BL is composed of a container of positrons=anti matter that is stable for a limited time then this gives the following explanation wrt dyatlov :-
Dubinina's and Zolotaryov's injuries could be explained by a beam (cloud?) of anti matter released from one BL just before another one exploded. The cloud hits them in the face removing their eyes which would focus the radiation onto the retina. It also removes eyebrows, eyelids and surrounding facial tissue. In Dubinina's case she starts to inhale (perhaps to scream) and takes in some of the cloud removing her tongue and lower muscle, nose tissue, upper lip and left cheek. Whilst they are still reeling she swallows about 100ml of blood before another BL explodes resulting in the chest fractures as they are thrown with great force.

I should add that i've read the anti matter removing the tongue theory elsewhere on the web so not original. At first i thought it to be a crank idea but now i like it more. It is a recorded feature of BL that a single ball can breakup into several smaller ones, which also fits here.

N.B. the radiation found on the clothing was beta.
John Wolfe 04-06-2016 05:33 (GMT)
Hi Nigel,

If you find any video lectures on ball lightning, please post them. I have not found much -- many bogus and / or UFO-space alien nonsense under the guise of "ball lightning video" The Florida Institute of Technology video was the best I've found, and his was just an informational lecture for the public.
Nigel Evans 03-06-2016 19:13 (GMT)
>John.

Good video thanks, interesting that lightning produces anti matter (positrons).
I had to chuckle with the world's foremost expert talking for an hour, giving BL 30 seconds with "it does exist honest"...
John Wolfe 03-06-2016 04:18 (GMT)
Hi Nigel,

Spinning magnetic field -- CREATING -- spinning electrical field -- CREATING -- spinning plasma. I think it starts with a spinning magnetic field.

and thanks, I am aware of the other reports of "lights" or balls of light in the sky. The lightning tutorials I listed below are interesting in that they are presented by a PhD who has studied lighting in Florida for over a decade. He is boring but worth watching once as he highlights two things: 1) tons of upper atmosphere mega-lightning and linked lightning over large areas; and 2) the fact that lightning does some strange (ie. unexplained) things.

watch this one if you're interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxYhJTR_O3g ALSO: its possible that various people saw various things / "lights in the sky" some might have been rockets -- but not on that night. However, because of the tests, some of the local party officials might have tried to "cover-up" something that didn't happen, thus complicating things.
Nigel Evans 02-06-2016 19:26 (GMT)
>John - Another hiking group in the area reported seeing the lights as did the Mansi from memory.

Spinning ionised air initiating something else. However I personally like the "earthquake lights" theory. Some of the theories for the Tunguska event (an explosion of megatons) discuss BL, as the event is difficult to explain as a comet/meteor as there's no impact crater and observers state it changed direction. Curiously Tunguska is at a very similar latitude to Dyatlov and Hassdalen just over 60 degrees north...

John Wolfe 02-06-2016 08:03 (GMT)
In the dyatlovmania section there are a couple of photos taken at the site where the tent was and they show what looks like snow that has been blown by very strong winds -- which is consistent with the contours shown in the maps section. Whether the wind had any effect on the hikers is still not known, but infrasound with ball lightning -- and during a Siberian blizzard -- might be some sort of fatal mix, causing enough terror to chase the hikers from the area and toward the protection of the forest line below. Without something (the ball lightning?) to chase them out of the tent, its just another stormy night on a mountain.

Also, in that same dyatlovmania section are quite a few quotes -- some reporting ball lightning in the same area -- any idea where they came from? There are no citations.
John Wolfe 02-06-2016 07:49 (GMT)
Not the spinning of the ionized air (which may happen) but the spinning of a magnetic field creating a hot electrical field acting like a feed-back loop. (a field, which can pass through many things, such as a window or wall and etc.) And yes, that created plasma might also explode, causing much of the injuries seen -- compression injuries -- against a lung full of air could break the rib-cage. There are places in the USA where balls of (??) light are seen moving around -- Marfa, Texas comes to mind. Also, everyone is making an assumption that all the injuries happened AFTER leaving the tent -- do we know that 'for sure'?
Nigel Evans 01-06-2016 18:07 (GMT)
> John Wolfe, hi.

Yes well spinning ionised air seems to be a common factor - tornadoes, aircraft wing tip vortex (foo fighters), but how this results in stable persistent objects is still unknown afaik.

Regarding your comment about radiation levels not being significant, the contaminated clothing was subjected to a "water test" - placed in running water for say 12 hours to see how much it reduced the radiation, (the bodies had been in a stream for many weeks). Based on this test is was determined that the initial exposure was quite high.

I agree that the last frame could be a BL photo.

Personally i'd be cautious about throwing metal at BL, one of the theories explains explosions as rapid shorting of different layers. The chest fractures were consistent with being dropped 60 feet.... Happy.


Regards
John Wolfe 31-05-2016 02:07 (GMT)
note to Nigel Evans:

Ball lightning seems to be several related phenomena -- while I have no answers -- having watched the formation of ball lightning (on videos) I would conjecture that it might be some sort of rapidly spinning MAGNETIC field effect: 1) spinning magnetic fields create electrical current possibly self-contained and energetically creating a plasma from the surrounding air -- this would account for its ability to go through walls and etc.; 2) since the rate of field rotation could be almost random -- the differences in spin-rate might account for the vast difference in reported power / activity of the visible ball of plasma; some explode with enough power to injure or damage, but many just dissipate with no apparent harm.

Sad to say, but if I'm right, and if ball lightning had entered the tent, the hikers could have thrown any metal object at it and it would have disrupted the spinning field.

also note: rescuers reported that the hikers DID NOT set up the metal stove and its metal chimney (as if they were experiencing or expecting lightning)
John Wolfe 31-05-2016 01:48 (GMT)
A good tutorial on lightning is on this you tube site:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtlWQ-scn48 which is from Florida Institute of Technology -- the lecturer, J. Dwyer, has several worth-while you tube lectures. (note: you have to be able to follow a one hour lecture to benefit, as its more technological and less entertainment orientated) Here's another of his lectures on lightning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxYhJTR_O3g also from FIT.
John Wolfe 31-05-2016 01:23 (GMT)
that last frame of film #1 -- the "technical photo" might not be a lab image of tripping the shutter (to wind the film back onto spool) -- I initially had no thoughts about it but thought I'd look at internet images of ball lightning as it might be ball lightning (plasma). The internet has a lot of bogus images which could easily be anything -- HOWEVER: after several hours of fruitless looking at many images and videos of ball lightning, I did see two images which are eerily similar: one, a still shows almost the same sort of blurred bright blob moving through the frame; and the other, a video (and this is what convinced me) a similar blob, which was definitely ball lightning (formed from a lightning strike) coming at the camera (over a short time, a few seconds close up, mostly distant, total elapsed time about one minute - 100 meters? - comes right at the camera and goes above it in just a few seconds -- and looks just like what would make that "last frame" image on film #1) I then interviewed two hikers who were caught in a lightning storm on a mountainous site of similar elevation (but in the Summer) in the USA. They were in their separate one man tents and it was night and began storming. The lightning was very intense and hit near-by many times for a few minutes -- they then notices a humming-buzzing sound and saw, through the tent fabric that a bright blob of light was hovering around their two side-by-side tents. What was of special interest was that they both reported extreme fright -- the kind that might make you cut through the tent to get out the back-side if the ball lightning came through the tent material or that came through the closed flap. I also note, that there are many vertical cuts in the Dyatlov tent -- as if someone was trying to let something out of the tent -- however I am not convinced that all of these cuts were done by the hikers, as they could have been done by the rescue party in an effort to expose the tent's contents (and possibly anyone still inside - which they then found out were elsewhere.
John Wolfe 31-05-2016 00:49 (GMT)
note: for anyone actually interested in this fairly complete site -- I sometimes sign my name "JD Wolfe" -- both are me. I sometimes sign differently not remembering that, that causes confusion, sorry.
john wolfe 28-05-2016 05:25 (GMT)
OOPS ! how do I edit a misspelling once posted? (I'm dyslexic)

misspelled "clothes" in the post below:
john wolfe 28-05-2016 05:23 (GMT)
I am wondering if the tent was found with the fasteners still holding the opening / flaps, or were they open? I assume they were closed. Also I am not familiar enough with the tent to know what the fasteners are made of and their design -- no one has discussed this crucial information from what I've read.

ALSO: the radiation on the closes was minimal and consistent with the two things in Soviet (and World) life then; specifically 1) the amount and numbers of atmospheric nuclear bomb tests, and 2) some of the party had access to minor nuclear materials in the labs they worked in -- remember -- they were undergraduate and graduate students at the MIT of the Soviet Union, in the 1050's.
Prism 25-05-2016 04:18 (GMT)
Awesome site - I will tell you what I think and this story and gave me the creeps at first.

I am an Eagle Scout, I've camped in zero degree weather. I have read, Dyatlov, had some sort of rigged gas stove to help keep them warm at night and might have had a problem causing someone to yell that it was gonna blow, obviously these folks were either asleep or about to be, and probably had most of their clothes off to try and dry, and when you're cold and tired being half asleep and probably low on calories, you almost feel drugged.

Since you cant untie those old tents fast, probably one of them took a knife and cut them out and ran. grabbing what they could, thinking about the stove about to blow and that causing a possible avalanche ran towards the direction they thought was that cabin, instead they went the wrong way, judging that where the tree was at, was about the same distance as the cabin (on the other side of the mountain area), the few that were injured probably climbed the tree and fell looking for the cabin or land marks...you've got to remember they probably were in blizzard like conditions.

Even though these people were obviously tough, hypothermia was probably setting in, that can cause all sorts of madness. They probably split the odds for survival, the two staying and building a fire, and Dyatlov and the other two trying to get back to the tent. I've read Dyatlov had a branch in his hand, and people saying he was fighting...he probably was shielding himself from the wind/snow hitting him in the face. The others being injured bad, if they were still alive, probably huddled together to keep warm.

And the radiation, they used to make thorium dioxide (I think that's right) lantern wicks. If those break that garbage gets on you.
tl 17-05-2016 18:37 (GMT)
I thought of an alternative to the small avalanche. An enormous snow drift builds up on their tent while they sleep. At some point, the tent suddenly collapses as we see in the pictures. It gives them the impression of an avalanche. They escape as fast as they can, some loose a shoe or a sock, but they are alive.

This explains both the upright tent poles and their panicked exit from the tent. Why else would they cut their way out and then abandon it. It must have been collapsed by snow, but could not have been collapsed by a normal avalanche, because the tent poles remained upright. A normal avalanche is quite unlikely on such a shallow incline.

When they dig their way out from the 2 or 3 metres of snow drift, they are in a panic. Their tent is collapsed, cut up and buried and they are afraid of further avalanches, so they hurry to get their supplies. The rest happens as described in my other comment.

Usually in a tent collapse, people have no choice but to remain with their tent and try to dig it out. But at Dyatlov pass, they had a supply depot nearby. It was just not close enough and very hard to find in the darkness.

With regard to Doroshenko climbing the tree, he was trying to collect firewood while remaining near the heat of the fire and also trying to prevent the branches above the fire from catching fire themselves.

About Krivonishchenko's burns. Think about the temperature differences involved. If you have -30C on your back, that's a -70C difference to your body temperature. Just to keep your temperature level, when standing still, you would need a +70C temperature difference in front of you. That would be 40C + 70C =110C. A fire is NO GOOD in these temperatures if you have poor clothing. You will die because the temperature you need from the fire is so high that you will get 3rd degree burns trying to get heat and still die of hypothermia. Poor Krivonischenko. You are a hero, all respect to you.

This explains why the people who were moving and had better clothing lasted longer than the people by the fire.

They are the Gods of the mountain.
tl 17-05-2016 11:42 (GMT)
I have a theory. The bright lights were rocket testing, possibly a rocket explosion. Not dangerously close, but close enough to scare them and trigger a small avalanche on the relatively shallow slope where that would not normally happen.

The avalanche is enough to cover the tent and scare them more, but not enough to injure them or flatten all the tent poles.

Because of the tent's orientation, the side facing down the hill is the only one not completely covered in snow, so in the darkness and their panic they manage to cut themselves out and escape the tent with what they have.

No one is injured at this point. The avalanche was only a meter or so deep.

The rocket testing is ongoing and they are extremely afraid, so they go down the hill toward their supply stash, but in the dark, they choose the wrong direction.

At the tree line a fire is lit. Kolevatov burns part of his jacket trying to get heat from the fire. They realise it will not be enough to save them and a group goes on to retrieve the supplies. Krivonischenko and Doroshenko stay to look after the fire. Krivonischenko is a hero and gives his brown sweater to Dubinina. "I don't need it I have the fire." He sees she is struggling and tries to save her. So the party splits for the first time.

The forward group fall through the fresh snow into the ravine and suffer injuries. Some die immediately. Clothes are redistributed and the injured are made as safe as possible where they are.

Those who can walk, that is Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogrova, now realise that their direction was wrong because the ravine should not have been there. They also realise that the fire and the tent is safer than out here, so they head back, hoping to rescue their friends in the ravine later.

On the way back to the tent they find their friends dead. Krivonischenko had burned himself in the fire trying to keep warm but it was not enough. They place the bodies of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko together. Kolmogorova, Dyatlov and Slobodin head to the tent, but do not make it.

I am not sure about the theory. I decided to make the best case for this scenario that I can. I feel great sympathy for the people involved.
Nigel Evans 04-05-2016 20:59 (GMT)

Having read around this on the internet and including Svetalana Oss’s book “Don’t go there” it is clearly in my opinion ball lightning.
Ivanov believed that UFOs was the best explanation, but he stressed not aliens, just lethal unidentified flying objects/fireballs, the soviet authorities diluting his finding to “unknown compelling force”.
Ball lightning fits in with his view and explains :–
mountain lights being observed from elsewhere and reported by the mansi, burns that are otherwise difficult to account for, burnt clothing, burnt tree tops, deaths due to extreme pressure (explosion). Because ball lightning isn’t yet understood by science it also allows the luxury of being stretched to explain skin colour, hair whitening, radiation. But in particular it works extremely well with what is perhaps the key question, why did they leave the tent that way? :-
The occupants are settling down in the tent it is dark outside.
A light (or lights) appear on the mountain bright enough to be noticed inside the tent. Fascinated the occupants start making slits along the top of tent at standing height (say three 30 cm slits, enough for up to nine people) to observe. Zolotaryov picks up his hidden KGB camera and keeps it around his neck for the duration.
Then one of the lights moves very near or even enters the tent at or near to the entrance. N.B. it’s common for ball lightning to pass through matter without leaving a trace.
Everyone very quickly exits the tent via cutting a slit at the back, there is no time to put on any footwear or extra clothes.
Now unable to return to the tent (more lights?) and at risk of exposure they decide to make for the cache of food and kit. But they get lost because (1) ball lightning (electro magnetic energy?) affects their compass?) or (2) the bl is moving down the slope towards the cache? A type of bl is classed as “rollers”. or (3) they’re just disorientated by the dark and the snow (one of the last photos show them to be in whiteout conditions). Anyway they take the wrong path a critical decision that costs them their lives and might have resulted in brawling later if there was a difference of opinion when they set off.
So they choose to camp next to a cedar that gives a good lookout to watch the lightshow back on the hill in order to make a return to the tent when it's safer as now they are not sure where the cache is located.
But the lights move down the hill towards them burning some of the tree tops....
Beyond this point no one knows the order of events but it seems that Doroshenko and Krivonischenko were the first to die. N.B. both had burns that are not easily explained from a small camp fire but perhaps more easily explained by electrical discharge.
E.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9QFU0u0L5U Historical records state that it is a feature of aggressive ball lightning that it can injure or kill (by burning) some members of a group leaving others unharmed or just with burnt clothing it all depends on the discharge.
For the remaining seven either some or all moved to the ravine and four died due to another ball lightning exploding overhead with tremendous force. The remaining three where lucky enough to be distant enough from the blast not to be killed (n.b. Slobodin had a head fracture). Whatever, they realised that they could not shelter from the lights, their only remaining chance was to get off the mountain by returning to the tent and finding their boots and skis. Sadly weakened by cold and possibly the explosion they never made it. May they rest in peace.

Other thoughts – I don’t like the “murder by others” theory because imo it doesn’t fit the facts, no obvious lethal force, several of the party clearly died of hypothermia and clearly in at least two separate events, probably three. All the other injuries sustained by the party seem to be explainable by - brawling, climbing, collecting firewood, falling out of a tree, previous falls on the skiing trip (one had a bandage), that is all but one injury, Dubinina’s tongue (it’s my assumption the missing eyes can be explained by decomposition in the stream but possibly not?).
Now here it starts getting rather interesting. If you google “cattle mutilations” you will find there is a well documented phenomenon (hundreds of cases?) that includes specific types of head trauma (disappearance of eyes, tongue and some mouth tissue) that are quite similar to Dubinina’s injuries. It’s not only cattle that are affected but other mammalian species as well, including it seems humans, google “human mutilation brazil”. Now if we discount the possibility that this is due to aliens or even humans performing brutal surgical processes we’re left with an unknown natural process as the cause, an energy that removes organ tissue selectively and exits the body via it’s orifices cauterising tissue bloodlessly in the process.
Ivanov’s fireballs, ball lightning? Perhaps even an explanation for spontaneous combustion?
Also Dyatlov Pass is at a very similar latitude to Hessdalen where the “lights” phenomenon has been more closely observed so it would be my conjecture that the Dyatlov lights are created by the same forces. N.B. higher radiation levels have been found at Hessdalen in areas where sightings have occurred.
Matt 03-05-2016 23:26 (GMT)
Where did the author of this site find obtain the autopsy report re: Zinaida? Was her cause of death solely hypothermia or hypothermia with violent accident?
You mean nobody noticed 02-05-2016 19:35 (GMT)
That all the victims are perfectly grouped , in order of their birthday , so on the slope 11,12,13 januari , mid slope , under the tree in ascending order 29 jan / 7 februari and at last 12 may / 8 july / 16 november. The only who is out of place is 2 februari , but he was the key person in this astrologycal ( as above so below ) event . The 10 th. survivor was totaly out of place , so it was an sacred event , i don't know who or what did this , but there is an astro connection.
Dudu Cordos 29-04-2016 10:17 (GMT)
Could a mini-nuke (experimental) detonation above the ground in the vicinity of the tent catapult the group of 4 straight into the ravine where they were found, causing the extensive damage to their body? That would explain why they are better dressed - assuming they were outside the tent at the moment of detonation. I mean just look at Dubinina position where she was found, against that rock; could have been slammed against the rock to her death?...Also explaining radioactivity (from the blast) in their clothes.
The ones in the tent rushed out after event to look for the missing 4, ignoring the clothes, scared, in panic, only to find them death by the ravine; attempted to make a funeral bed for them but failed, one by one, to the cold.
Here a permalink for a mini nuke explosion simulation near the position of the tent. The 15 psi blast radius would have been enough to blow them 1500 m away? Of course this don't explain other mismatched details, but... goes together with the glowing spheres saw by other people in that area...
http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html?dll=61.76016,59.43208&yd=1&zm=13&op=156
Nigel Evans 17-04-2016 13:07 (GMT)
Google "cattle mutilation".
The phenomena includes organ removal and animals being dropped from a height.
Tammy 11-04-2016 01:19 (GMT)
The diaries mention a hunter. They were trespassing in Mansi land. They were murdered by a group of Mansi men. Stomped which could account for the horrific internal injuries. No UFO, no yeti, nothing supernatural.
Murder.
Nigel Evans 06-04-2016 13:01 (GMT)
Google "mountain lights" and "longdendale lights"
Daniel 04-04-2016 19:08 (GMT)
Hello,
It is the second attempt to write a comment...I think there was some trouble wit first.

In my opinion we must not be indifferent to what the Mansi community tells us. Something happens in those mountains area. Collected data witnesses, corpses state indicate the presence of a natural phenomenon linked to electricity that arises in this area. This electric phenomenon is a large-scale (different from the usual lightning; maybe ... similar to ball lightning or corona discharge) one, with a large transfer of electric charge between different ground areas through atmospheric layers. I believe that the nine were inside an electrical discharge in a large area (some plasma bullet). The theory can be verified by on-site measurements.

Great site.
Thomas Whiteside 04-04-2016 16:03 (GMT)
Firstly, great site.

Has it ever been theorised that the group was attempting to make a retreat from the tent (following 'the incident') back towards the food cache / storage house near the Auspia River (where they stored surplus food & supplies on January 31), but instead became totally disoriented and went down the wrong side of the slope instead?

Looking at the map it's doesn't seem to be a dissimilar distance to that from the tent to the cedar tree.

This could explain the following decisions:
a. to leave food, supplies and some clothing in the tent -as they could be replaced once they reached the cache.
b. to walk rather than run down the slope - if they have a plan to access food, shelter and clothing, they are perhaps calm and rational, not frantic and panicked.
c. why Zolotarev, Kolevatov, Dubinia, and Thibeaux-Brignolles decided to keep heading down the slope (maybe they thought the cache was just a bit further downhill).
d. it could even explain the possible fist fight between Dyatlov and Slobodin - perhaps they argued about whether they were going the right direction (admittedly this point is rather weak in support of this theory - an argument could have broken out in numerous circumstances)

All total conjecture, but the idea of an orderly retreat seems to fit with Igor Dyatlov's reputation for ingenuity and level headedness.

Obviously this theory hinges on what exactly they had cached, how much shelter the cache provided and how far away the cache site was from the tent.

Would love to know others' thoughts

Feel free to email me:
last-pistol-shot@hotmail.com
John Wantling 03-04-2016 09:01 (GMT)
This film by Richard D. Hall and David Cayton contains the solution to this mass murder. UFOs AND NATO The Human Mutilation Cover Up 1 OF 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsBIkhwCNVA
br 24-03-2016 20:44 (GMT)
They get frightened by the guardian spirit Mansi Marvtvtv. End
wizzy 20-03-2016 02:56 (GMT)
does somebody know where the personal diaries can be found?
Andy 17-03-2016 02:56 (GMT)
yes It was the 'Russian Yeti' program I was referring to. Is the date on the official files that they show in the program accurate? say the military investigated on the 6th of Feb.
Maciste 16-03-2016 08:01 (GMT)
@Andy

Was there a new TV show broadcasting, or do you mean "The Russian Yeti - The Killer Lives"

Maybe there is a possibility to have some scans from old newspaper articles etc. on this site.
Andy 16-03-2016 02:16 (GMT)
I understand that the American TV show rather sensationalized the events and may well be highly inaccurate. But what do you make of the possibility that the Russian Military may well have been as the site as early as the 6th of February, several days before the bodies and tent were officially found?
Objective 05-03-2016 15:11 (GMT)
Disclaimer: have not not studied details carefully
However, theory noone has concluded just yet: 1)infrasound due to high winds/vortices makes leader THINK there is an avalanche (it doesnt matter how experienced they are, it is dark and even the possibility of avalnche could compel the order to run). 2) lack of light as it was evening and panic from possible avalanche results in non stop movement in one direction. The fairly better dressed group make it further before stopping, the others stop at the treeline and being freezing, decide to make a fire as quickly as possible; 3) for two (hypothermia sets in and clothes are removed due to burning sensation) and other three realize that the avalanche probably did not occur and it should be safer to return to tent and grab clothes before suffering same fate as the two hypothermic; 4) on the way they face howling winds and freeze to death before making it; 5) the other 4 that make it further unknowingly run into a ravine that maybhave been 25ft deep and suffer fractures and blunt force trauma as they fall; 6) being stuck there and frozen to death the elements (partial mummification) and wildlife result in missing tongue, lips etc; 7) the orange lights are in fact ufo (for argument sake we will accept the fact that there are ufo/aliens that visit us). However, if this is the case, then probability is that they visit our planet often and in different places at different times and as such, could simply have been a coincidence that their visiting this time happened to be when these 9 unfortunate souls were caught in a terrible tragedy
Amber Kelly 24-02-2016 22:20 (GMT)
This is a really great collection of information on the incident. I am working on a podcast and a play dedicated to The Dyatlov Pass Incident: http://unknowncompellingforce.podbean.com/ Would it be possible for you to share your image files in high quality format via a file share? Thanks in advance and thanks for creating the site
Nigel Evans 19-02-2016 19:43 (GMT)
Great site. Ball lightning is a possible explanation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning (note the reports of explosions and fatalities) with the cold and wild animals doing the rest.
Dee 31-01-2016 19:55 (GMT)
Great site. It contains lots of photographs that I haven't seen before. I would really like someone to get to the truth of this mystery.
Me 14-01-2016 17:24 (GMT)
They were obviously murdered somehow.
SP 16-11-2015 11:31 (GMT)
This is the best, and most informative site on the subject. Concise, and lacking in the usual crazy-talk.
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